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All this talk of staycations would be fine if the ****ing weather got the memo!
3 days wild camping in the highlands rapidly approaching, some days still stuggling to reach double digit temperatures and regularly tipping down with rain... Could be an interesting summer if we get hoardes descending on the beauty spots AND a wet summer, it'll be like T in the Park all over the highlands! 😂
If you drive to France, where is the pricey enforced quarantine on return?
Yea, this weather has been grim. Booked into a camp site next weekend in the Lakes and the long term forecast looks crap. I'll be sacking it off if it is due to rain. I'd rather not spend my first holiday in over a year spent in a tent in the rain.
Yea, this weather has been grim.
Wait, no, I take it back. Looks like we might see 12 degrees and a glimmer of sunshine on tomorrow's ride, my cup runneth over... 🙄
The UK weather for May is pathetic, I'm now starting to wonder if it's worth taking my road bike with me to see family in Prestatyn next weekend for the first time since last July, given I don't take it for wet rides...
And what little bike training prep I've done over the past two weeks has had to be on the turbo in sunny cold/wet/windy Southampton.
8° today on my lunchtime ride here in Derbyshire, at least it wasn't raining.
A mate was doing a 3 day 2 night bike packing trip in the Yorkshire Dale's starting yesterday. His FB feed shows pics of murky greyness and his car is back on the drive. Guessing its not gone to plan then
There has been a high pressure sat over Greenland for like the last month.
This has pushed the Jet stream south resulting in this run of cold weather.
Long range Forecasts are hinting that this may change later next week and things may start to warm up..
Prestatyn visit is now postponed, indoor extended households has been postponed in Wales until 7th June. 🙁
I’ve got to say I pretty impressed with their flexibility in trying to give people confidence for holidays, that should make it quite easy to avoid the Slough Hotels, you’d just move your hols the week before if your destination was in the red.
its not quite as clean as that though, there's no admin fee, but how much do you think a last minute holiday to a greenlist country is going to cost (as the cost difference in package will still apply).
its not quite as clean as that though, there’s no admin fee, but how much do you think a last minute holiday to a greenlist country is going to cost (as the cost difference in package will still apply).
Personally speaking, if I book and have to move it, its going back to October 2022. And yes, I checked that I can.
If you drive to France, where is the pricey enforced quarantine on return?
Currently, you quarantine in your own home.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/red-amber-and-green-list-rules-for-entering-england#amber-list
Currently, you quarantine in your own home.
And variants get spread across borders how, exactly....?
And variants get spread across borders how, exactly….?
and? What is the point in vaccination?
What is the point in vaccination?
Well, I didn't think it was so we could let every stray variant in before we'd finished the vaccination programme
There was a lady on TV last night talking about what testing would be involved in a trip to Portugal. Sounded like a right PITA even before you get to wondering whether by departure day you can actually go at all, or whether things will change while you're away. TBH I'm surprised that people think it's worth the hassle this year.
TBH I’m surprised that people think it’s worth the hassle this year.
Ditto.
Plus there's the challenges of even leaving the UK unscathed...
Look out World the Brits are about to start going abroad again...
So amongst the great rush to Portugal, where apparently the Bar can't wait for the Brits because they "...love to party.."(mm, hot, sweaty and drink closeness!) are people going to Red List places.
How are they allowed? How are the flights allowed? That really really puzzles me - in a nervous way.
So now we have Boris telling people not to fly to Amber countries. Yet, why are the planes allowed to fly, tickets allowed to be booked etc?
This is him about to blame us for bring the virus in, right?
There's a lot of desperate people whinging in the papers that their holidays to amber countries can't be postponed nor refunded and their travel insurance won't cover them.
I have little sympathy and no patience for those that won't wait. Yes you may die before another week in Shagaluf but better that than long covid or any other associated nastiness. You won't die because you can't get away.
I'm having to explain to people weekly that no we don't know what will be possible in September and no I won't take your money on the off-chance. It's not a year for cheap travel it's all going to be last minute and expensive as a result. Ryanair will need to cover that £700 million loss somehow.
I'm currently off work due to the entitled causing me severe mental stress over the last 4 months (not all our clients just a sizeable minority). It's literally ground me down and telling people to **** off on the phone is not good for business. I accept that it's not as bad as working in ICU in a hospital but I have an idea of the stress that's floating around for those of us in public customer facing roles. If you're currently coping great, but do look after yourselves and step away before you break.
It’s not a year for cheap travel it’s all going to be last minute and expensive as a result. Ryanair will need to cover that £700 million loss somehow.
I like your optimism in thinking that there will still be a Ryanair / EasyJet / British Airways / Virgin in a year.
I'm trying to stay up-beat. Thankfully I can retire after another full season. I have every sympathy for those that are stuck and will have to work for 10 or more years longer.
there will still be a Ryanair / EasyJet / British Airways / Virgin in a year.
Something will fill the void, business always goes for the opportunity.
There’s a lot of desperate people whinging in the papers that their holidays to amber countries can’t be postponed nor refunded and their travel insurance won’t cover them.
I said this would happen and it's not like they haven't been warned. My uncle is really struggling to see why he can't just hop on a plane and go to Gibraltar for a week next week, he's moaning about no cheap flights, why does he have to be tested, why can't he nip across the border to Span as he pleases etc. I know he's a moron and really can't understand complex issues but it's depressing to see there are lots of other people out there just like him. I would love to just drive down to the PDS with the bike at the end of July and have the holiday I want but realistically that's very risky and not the brightest idea (no offence to those of you who do this year) with my parents and the India variant running around.
I just wish the weather would get better here so I can have a few days out in my Mini, been too wet to use it all month!
There you go - it's your "personal responsibility" aka your fault when Covid cases ramp up again. Remember, it's not Boris fault, its YOUR fault.
What a bunch of ****ers.
Since the release of traffic light countries list, the government has said all along that going to amber for leisure is not recommended. So i dont understand the confusion. Tell a lie, i do understand, as people are too stupid/selfish/ignorant to heed that advice.
We need a nanny state that tells people to explicitly not go somewhere, rather than relying on common sense.
Or am i missing something?
Or am i missing something?
That under those conditions, people can still book tickets and carriers are still flying planes to those destinations. You are correct, the stupidity and selfishness extends to the carriers, albeit we know they are suffering heavily with losses and no doubt want to claw back some revenue. Note Tui & Jet2 are not flying, although Jet 2 are still a little unclear of their intentions beyond 21st June, although that's not what is says on Tui's webiste re amber countries ( https://www.tui.co.uk/holidays/where-can-i-go-on-holiday?vlid=tuigreenstrip34)
I'm willing to bet the equivelent NZ leadership would have banned flights to Amber and Red areas per se.
relying on common sense.
I think we both know there's plenty not applying common sense, hence it needs decisive leadership to contain the rather positive position we are very close to damaging.
I think we all know the rest of Europe will be put on the green list next month so Boris can be hailed as 'saving summer' by the Daily Mail.
This will probably coincide with the Indian variant taking hold in Europe...
I'm glad we've moved our road trip to Italy to 2022 - too many things to go wrong and i don't want to spend 2 weeks looking at the news and worrying about the rules changing.
Anyone thinking 2024 is a safe bet for European holidays?
I think we both know there’s plenty not applying common sense, hence it needs decisive leadership to contain the rather positive position we are very close to damaging.
I think studies of adherence to the guidelines show that the public have in fact been very good at adhering to social distancing etc. Of course there will be idiots, and publicising those few cases will help the govt gaslight us into thinking its all the public's fault 🙂
Many of the people expressing their incredulity that we are allowed to travel to amber destinations while at the same time being advised by health professionals not to are quite happy legally to buy and smoke cigarettes while at the same time being advised by health professionals not to.
I guess also for a lot of people there might be the prospect of losing money on non-refundable flights etc.
I was willing to take that hit when cancelling this year's trip but it was only £400 which isn't much more than a month's disposable income for me.
Imagine being on near minimum wage and maybe being faced with the prospect of 'losing' the value of an entire package holiday. Heartbreaking.
I agree that the government really needed to step in an create whatever conditions necessary to force refunds. Allowing carriers to keep flying just gives them a loophole to refuse refunds.
Anyone thinking 2024 is a safe bet for European holidays?
Considering most flag carrier airlines think it will be 2024/25 before pre-covid levels of traffic, i'd say you're not far wrong.
Discussed a potential ski trip next year and I'm not really confident as I don't think it would happen. This thing is another 2-3 years away before it has settled on a global scale.
buy and smoke cigarettes
Not even closely related. Cigarettes have an addictive component that is difficult to resist, while I'm not aware of anything in a package holiday that is addictive (unless there's something in the food served on flights that we don't know about).
I’m currently off work due to the entitled causing me severe mental stress over the last 4 months (not all our clients just a sizeable minority). It’s literally ground me down and telling people to **** off on the phone is not good for business. I accept that it’s not as bad as working in ICU in a hospital but I have an idea of the stress that’s floating around for those of us in public customer facing roles. If you’re currently coping great, but do look after yourselves and step away before you break.
Sounds like you need a holiday....
Flipancy aside, for a lot of people a holiday abroad really is the only chance they get to get away from the stress and day to day of life, many many of those people will be in low income employment (eg public facing) live in cramped crappy housing in crowded parts of the country with very little opportunity to "get away from it" by taking a week off in their living room. At the best of times a UK holiday is expensive and, if you're not interested in what the UK has to offer its pretty pants - for the same reason a week on a beach in the Costa del whatever holds no appeal for me a week in the lakes holds no appeal to plenty of others.
I'm lucky enough to live in a nice area, a decent house with plenty of space and a garden, decent neighbours etc. Staying at home still isn't exactly a relaxing switch off There are plenty of folk who aren't that lucky and for whom it would be equally or more stressful.
I like outdoorsy stuff and history for which the UK is a pretty good holiday destination. Lots of people don't and aren't and wouldn't find out pleasurable or relaxing.
I'm in a reasonable job as is my better half and we've no kids but a week in Ambleside for a family of four would be staggeringly costly in a normal year compared with a week in Spain.
We both drive so getting to locations in the UK isn't a huge bind, on the other hand lots of people (esp those on lower incomes etc) don't and can't. Try getting from ass end of Birmingham to the (very nice) beaches of the Northumberland coast or pembrokeshire by public transport, now try getting to magaluf.
It's easy to sit in judgement and talk about people being "entitled" but holiday is a health issue, people need to take time away from work and they need to do that in a way which reduces their stress, not increases it and for a lot of people that is a "package" holiday.
Some fair points in the post above.
I've got no real interest in taking a family holiday in the UK as even pre-COVID it was more expensive than mainland Europe - this year the prices are ridiculous.
The holiday to lake Garda i've just pushed back to 2022 was going to cost us 2300 EUR for 14 nights in an air conditioned bungalow on a 'Eurocamp' type site on the lake.
Yes, i agree i've got to get there but even in you include the channel tunnel, the fuel and a night in a hotel to break the journey up either way we're still under £3k for a 2 week holiday for a family of 4.
Which is about the same as 2 weeks in a crap caravan on a crap Haven site in the Southwest..
Why have an amber list at all?
Yes or No avoids confusion
An amber list, that facilitates travelling to see family, eg for funerals, older members with not long to live, partners about to give birth... etc... while also communicating that holidays are not allowed, and agreeing that with a travel industry now dominated by a few giants, should be possible. It takes organisation and clear communication though.
Red - absolutely no travel to or from the country
Amber - repatriation allowed with quarantine, and travel for important family reasons
Green - holidays allowed with mitigation measures (tests etc)
There needs to be something between "no travel for any reason" and "no holidays".
buy and smoke cigarettes
Not even closely related. Cigarettes have an addictive component that is difficult to resist, while I’m not aware of anything in a package holiday that is addictive (unless there’s something in the food served on flights that we don’t know about).
Another difference - smoking, for the most part, is only harmful to yourself - hence makes sense for it to be a personal decision
Amber - there has to be a way for Stranley Johnson to go on holiday, while denying it to us oiks.
@dangerousbrain Our clientele are not the week on the Costas market. We're at the other end where people lay out 4K or 5K for 6 in good hotels in Norfolk. Some of these are really lovely folk, others are not pleasant at all.
A week away from it should be enough to get me back on track as I went early before a proper crisis struck. Previous experience is that a full crisis is a minimum of 6 weeks away and anything up to 3 months if it's really bad. As a minimum wage drone I can afford a week away.
There needs to be something between “no travel for any reason” and “no holidays”.
also its nice to have a "transition step"
If my prebooked holiday is green, I'm going, with the understanding that it could turn to amber while I am there, but probably wouldn't go to red in the space of 6 days.
A week away from it should be enough to get me back on track as I went early before a proper crisis struck.
Hope you get yourself sorted and pleased you recognised it in good time, that's often not at all easy.
Hey guys, dropping into the thread to see what the mountain bike public is thinking. If we can offer any help or detail on travel this summer and Autumn ask away, we're on the ground in Morzine, Aosta and Finale Ligure.
Summer 2020 was unreal, managing to get 90% of a season in Morzine and an entire Autumn in Finale. 2021 is presenting some new challenges, but at least this time there seems to be a light at the end of the tunnel that means we won't be going back in.
France has just announced it's own traffic light system, full details will be available on June 9th, probably before as that was the date non EU-countries were going to be allowed to visit for tourism.
Full details are not yet available, but what we know so far is -
RED - Complete ban. Travel from red countries is entirely prohibited unless is extreme circumstances in which case a strict quarantine must be observed.
ORANGE - Travel from an orange country will be allowed for any reason, including tourism, with proof of a completed course of an approved vaccine. These vaccine are; Pfizer, Astra Zeneca, Johnson & Johnson and Moderna. The UK's vaccine passport app will be recognised in France. If you are not vaccinated, conditions will apply but the details have not been released.
GREEN - Travel is allowed entirely unrestricted, travellers maybe asked to present a vaccination certificate or a negative test.
Currently, you can visit Italy from the UK without the need for quarantine, you must have a negative PCR or antigen test no more than 48 hours old.
In Morzine and Finale, lifts are starting to run (this weekend) and shuttles are uplifting. Yes there are some restrictions but the do not inhibit the experience, they are the same as they were at the end of last summer. They worked well. We've got all the timetables and latest information HERE.
Whether you are staying with us or not, if you've got any questions about travel this summer you think we can help with drop us a line on info@mtbbeds.com
Fingers crossed!
THe worry is, what is the situation when there ? Cleaning on the lifts ? Bars open ? restaurants indoors and out ?
that's without throwing in the complexitites of what happens if you're abroad and a country changes status.
Depending on where you go the situation is different and as you'd have to expect anywhere, there is alot of personal responsibility involved. Dealing with something like a chairlift, it's not practical to sanitise every inch of it before and after use.
This is why they are very strict on mask wearing on the lifts and in the lift lines, with sanitising points for yourself at the entry and exit points. But if you go rubbing your hands on everything and itching your nose when on the lift....
It's being taken very seriously, the lift companies had zero income in 2020 winter season, billions of Euros were lost, so they are extremely keen to get things under way as quickly as possible under safe conditions. However it still has to be practical so while safety precautions will be serious, they have to be functional.
This is taken directly from meetings with the operators.
In bars and restaurants it will be be the same, everyone has enhanced cleaning protocols in place and mask wearing is taken seriously. The alpine resorts rely on tourism, they need to do this right, but again you must take some responsibility for your own safety.
We did a video on Morzine at the start of last summer, it's relatively up to date, mask wearing while on the lift became obligatory, it's tongue in cheek but it was made to show how Morzine can be safe and also be a holiday. HERE.
In our properties I can give specific details as we are in complete control, rather than put everything in a forum, as it's ALOT of detail, if you have any concerns or want to see what kind of measures are going on, check out our webpage HERE.
@mtbbeds
Any info on Switzerland/the procedure of travelling to Morzine via Geneva airport?
Thanks mtbbeds, good to know. We're only coming down for 1 or 2 days this summer to ride, but feel a bit happier it's viable to come.
Hi @ayjaydoubleyou,
Yep, so at present you'll need a negative test to fly, which is nothing new. If you are transiting you have no obligation to quarantine. Proof that you are transiting will be in the form of a reservation at an accommodation in France, you'll need to have these details to hand and put them in the locator form which you need to fill out.
This is also what you would need should you be stopped at border control, but this is unlikely. By the time travel is happening the apps in place or their paper equivalent will carry all the covid related info you need to present, then you'll just need your holiday information to hand if questioned.
It's also worth noting that Geneva airport is actually in France, so there is a french sector and you can arrive and depart without every technically crossing the Swiss border. You can also transit through France without having to drive in Switzerland, though it takes half an hour longer if heading to Morzine.
More practically, the airlines would probably not warrant putting on flights if travel is heavily restricted. On the plus side Switzerland's infection rate is about half that of France, so they are likely to go green before France and as stated, transiting through is no issue.
This article sums it up well - HERE.
On the plus side Switzerland’s infection rate is about half that of France, so they are likely to go green before France and as stated
If I'm not mistaken Malta and Finland both had very similar rates to Portugal (Malta slightly fewer, Finland slightly higher) at the time the last list was compiled yet neither was green listed. Malta "probably" will be this time, despite now being 40% lower than Portugal, Finland still unlikely but its rate is lower than Portugal was at the last issue.
Really it seems green listing is more likely to be linked to buying wallpaper than CV rates.
(officially I believe its a combination of incidence rates, vaccination rates, ability to sequence and "other" considerations)
I do hope you're right and the government start to apply some support of consistent and transparent logic but leopards and spots spring to mind.
Hoping to be able to go via tunnel to France then onto the Aosta valley (It) in a month's time. This does not sound promising:
13:28
France: UK arrivals must quarantine due to Indian variant
Jon Henley Jon Henley
France will impose a compulsory quarantine on travellers arriving from the UK because of growing concerns over the spread of the Indian variant of the coronavirus, the government’s spokesman has said.
Gabriel Attal told reporters at the end of the cabinet meeting this morning that the government would announce the date when the widely expected decision would come into effect “in the coming hours”.
France requires travellers from 16 countries, including Brazil, India, Argentina and Turkey, to undergo a compulsory 10-day period of self-isolation, with a fine of €1,500 in the event of non-compliance.
(from the Guardian live blog)
Hi @dangeourbrain,
Yeah look who knows what the UK Government are really up to, it could be very transparent and honest, there is probably alot of politics involved or maybe no one has any idea what to do. But all we can go off is what the Governments of each country tell us.
This is what the UK Government say they are looking at when assessing a countries status;
Genomic surveillance capability
COVID-19 transmission risk
Variant of concern transmission risk
number of individuals tested over a 4-week period
number of people testing positive per week over a 4-week period
traveller positivity over a 4-week period
number of positives sequenced over a 4-week period
number of variants of concern (VOC) and high-risk variants under investigation (VUI) detected during sequencing over a 4-week period
variant (VOC/VUIs) detection rate over a 4-week period
country/territory epidemiological data
total newly reported cases, per 100,000 population per week
reported number of tests per 1000 population per week
test positivity, based upon reported number of tests and cases per week
country and territory total number of vaccination doses (single doses) administered per 100 people
country and territory total number of positive sequences uploaded to GISAID
In most developed countries, such as Finland, Malta, Portugal, Switzerland, France or Italy, all of which have been brought up, alot of this is covered by simply having a solid and functioning health system (good testing facilities, accurate testing and a tracing system for example).
It would seem that the 7 day average infections, where there are no variants of concern would be a big factor in deciding countries status, but this could be wrong.
Either way lets hope everyone does everything they need to as quickly as possible to get things back to some kind of normality soon!
Either way lets hope everyone does everything they need to as quickly as possible to get things back to some kind of normality soon!
Amen to that.
Mandatory 7 day french quarantine shortly for UK visitors
Going to end any French Alps trips unfortunately for now!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-57256859
10 days according to the independent.
Mandatory 7 day french quarantine shortly for UK visitors
Going to end any French Alps trips unfortunately for now!https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-57256859
/blockquote>Yep,
That's a complete kick in the knackers.
I was planning to travel to Morzine for Pass'Portes in a month's time. Put the work in to get both jabs in time for travel (not especially hard in Wales), got my head around all the testing requirements, got the nod from work to WFH unless it was an emergency (my job is exempt from Isolation, but WFH unless it was an emergency seemed the most Rule 1 solution). bounced the Accom over from last year, even overcame Easyjet cancelling our flights, then this.
Some people, who probably don't know more than anyone else are saying it's a bit of Political games between the UK and France, a bit of tit for tat over quarantine rules, but I don't see it, France is months behind the UK with vaccine roll-out and a new more contagious strain could see them back in lock-down before they can catch up.
I hope it's resolved before August when I'm due to go with my family, but who knows... I've got to pay about £1k for the accom for that in a few weeks, I've got Covid insurance, but it explicitly states quarantine isn't a reason to claim, which makes it mostly useless.
Yeah look who knows what the UK Government are really up to, it could be very transparent and honest, there is probably alot of politics involved or maybe no one has any idea what to do. But all we can go off is what the Governments of each country tell us.
Having looked at not only the UK but other countries, whilst they might offer this or that in terms of rules, the realities are far more murky.
Country A, might way "we'll allow Country B, C, D, E, F," etc, because those Countries have lower rates, better vaccine roll-out, etc. But those Countries look at Country A with it's worse stats, on in our case scary and potentially worse version of Covid and say "no way".
I'm sure there's lots of discussions going on behind closed doors, especially between the UK and France, we're their biggest market for tourism, and we need trade with them, and often money is more valuable then people.
I wouldn't be surprised at all if the government are purposely restricting travel abroad so the exchequer can scoop up a load of VAT from people holidaying in the UK.
I am a cynic of this government though, but can't think of a reason why i should be?!? 😉
Some people, who probably don’t know more than anyone else are saying it’s a bit of Political games between the UK and France, a bit of tit for tat over quarantine rules, but I don’t see it, France is months behind the UK with vaccine roll-out and a new more contagious strain could see them back in lock-down before they can catch up.
I can't see the main driver for this being political games either.
As you say - France is 2-3 months behind us with vaccines, which means they'll be at the point we are now by the end of Aug.
As much as they'd like our tourists over there spending money, another lockdown during the height of the holiday season would be catastrophic economically so i can understand their actions.
I think anyone travelling abroad for the next 6-9 months needs to expect things to change very quickly in their host country, regardless of the UKs traffic light system.
I wouldn’t be surprised at all if the government are purposely restricting travel abroad so the exchequer can scoop up a load of VAT from people holidaying in the UK.
I am a cynic of this government though, but can’t think of a reason why i should be?!? 😉
Welsh Gov aren't really hiding it, they're asking us to Holiday in Wales, not even the UK.
It's a nice idea I suppose, if you don't enjoy travel, at least in part to experience different cultures etc, but I'm currently looking at a Static caravan in Cornwall, it's just a caravan in a park, a plastic portacabin with some MDF beds - it's £4k for a week. Sod that.
If we don't go sailing in Greece for whatever reason, I won't be booking anything in the UK. We will do lots of local things instead.
a plastic portacabin with some MDF beds – it’s £4k for a week. Sod that.
Price gouging to the max
MDF Beds? Sounds like a crappy re-brand!
To update you on the French side of this new measure. It takes effect from May 31st (Monday), no end date, or date for reviewing the decision has been given.
The quarantine lasts for 7 days and there is no test to release option.
June 9th is the date the French had given to allow non EU tourism to commence, the UK was on the list. We would expect clarification before then as to how long this will be in place for, as obviously it causes significant disruption to many industries and sectors.
Can I put my smug face on and say in Feb we booked a bungalow that sleeps 6 in Cornwall, within walking distance of the sea and pub for just over £800 - and it also has a sex-pond! 🍆🤣👙🛀
It is first week in Sept though just after kids have gone back.
Cottages out of school hols are still out there - this for example...
https://www.sykescottages.co.uk/cottage/Cornwall-Rosemerryn-Fm/Waters-Edge-1054731.html?_hsearch=21052760afb0c56e6bd&_price=895&_display=1#duration=7&start=2021-09-03&changeover=5
No hope if you need school holiday dates.
And this is a grand at the end of June...
https://www.sykescottages.co.uk/cottage/Cornwall-Redruth/Medlar-Cottage-1013529.html?_hsearch=21052760afb0c580baf&_price=1002&_display=1#duration=7&start=2021-06-25&changeover=5
Still hoping that by mid august things are looking a little better, 10days booked in Verbier.
France will impose a compulsory quarantine on travellers arriving from the UK because of growing concerns over the spread of the Indian variant of the coronavirus, the government’s spokesman has said.
Perhaps this will be the kick up the arse the government need to put proper border restrictions in place. Its all very well vaccinating the whole of the UK in superfast time so our hospitals are not overloaded but if that means we relax other rules which bring in variants and allow them to spread other countries will understandably not want us going there. Perhaps the home secretary should be using the considerable manpower of the Border Agency to check quarantine protocols are being followed rather than rounding up people who have probably been in this country for years, in the hope of sending them back to a country where covid is probably a far bigger risk.
I find it impossible to believe that there isn’t already community transmission of the Indian variant in the EU. With that in mind , stopping vaccinated, negative test U.K. visitors sounds political rather than scientific.
I find it impossible to believe that there isn’t already community transmission of the Indian variant in the EU. With that in mind , stopping vaccinated, negative test U.K. visitors sounds political rather than scientific.
It's been on my mind a lot, trying to guess if/when France might lift the quarantine rules, I don't feel too positive about it.
I think because of their slower vaccine roll-out and a more cautious approach to it generally by French people their recovery / road map is far shakier than ours and it's based on the Kent variant being the dominant strain.
So far we've been able to lift restrictions and maintain falling transmission, hospitalisations and deaths, but it seems that it only took a few weeks for the Kent variant, already more contagious than the first one, to be replaced by the even more contagious Indian variant and cases and hospital admissions are starting to climb again, this was expected, but it's higher than was expected.
As of a week ago France had 80 cases of the Indian variant in 50ish different sites. I doubt it's controllable, but they will have to try to do anything they can to slow the spread to get their vaccine numbers up first. We're finding thousands a day.
In 2017 13m Brits visited France, who knows what those figures would look like in 2021 if France was put on the green list and their was no quarantine? There's a lot of pent up desire for travel and I think it would be enough to over-come the numbers of people who are reluctant to travel, but even if they insist on a clear PCR / full vaccine of the millions who'll travel there will be still thousands of people coming to France carrying the Indian strain, probably more than the number of people who travelled from India to the UK to bring it here.
Macron must be under huge pressure, the Tourism industry in France is huge, they're the most visited country in the World and we're their biggest market (or possibly second). Millions of job rely on it and it represents 8% of their GDP, but on the other hand they've not yet come out of their 3rd national lockdown, for 2 months they've been under a 7pm curfew plus all the things we've been doing. He seems to be saying they can save the Summer for French People, or save the Summer Season for UK (and the other countries on the ban list) tourists, but not both.
If the UK continues to reduce its numbers, they might reverse it, but our own lockdown lifting plans will make numbers rise, not fall and even Johnson is starting to hint the June 21st date is in question.
It won't matter, but Boris delaying adding India to the red list because of trade talks is going to have serious ramifications, not only for Holidays, or even the June 21st date, but real ones like more Hospitalisation and deaths.
France is 2-3 months behind us with vaccines,
But catching up fast. The UK programme slowed down from the end of March:
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/vaccinations
Click on cumulative. Whilst the French vaccination rate continues to rise as deliveries rise:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1195620/vaccines-again-covid19-france/
By the mid-Summer both countries will be running out of candidates for vaccination if you look at vaccine delivery schedules. How many young people will be reluctant to be vaccinated remains to be seen and is IMO what will dictate which borders are open to tourists. If French uptake is as low as the pessimists predict then we could be red listed, however if the uptake observed while vaccination was age-group limited is repeated in the rest of the population we'll be fine. Junior, aged 23, got his first dose of Pfizer yesterday just by joining a queue.
But catching up fast. The UK programme slowed down from the end of March:
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/vaccinations
Click on cumulative. Whilst the French vaccination rate continues to rise as deliveries rise:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1195620/vaccines-again-covid19-france/
/blockquote>I think france will start to slow significantly - there is a huge amount more cynisism about vaccinations generally there, especially amongst the young who are less affected by covid, as well as pushback against anything the government suggests you do. The vaccinations will roll quickly until everyone who wants one has one, but I think that maybe in the ~60%ish ratio of the population, rather than the >90% we're seeing here
Vaccination rates in the U.K. haven’t dropped at all. In fact 7 day average of jabs given is on an upward trajectory. We are currently averaging over 600,000/day for the first time.
France looks a different story if you look at fully vaccinated as percentage of population. Divergent slopes are going to take a while to catch up....
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I deliberately used first shots graphs rather than second shots graphs as they are a far better indicator of where we'll be by mid-Summer. In Europe where the vast majority are vaccinated with Pfizer/moderna then catch up on second doses will be faster than first doses as the time between doses is shorter than with AZ which is more widely used in the UK.
And yes, predictive graphs and vaccine dose delivery dates become meaningless if the population stops turning up at vaccination centers.
Just to counterbalance the "MDF Beds" post, I stayed at one of their Morzine chalets in 2019 and it was ace. Friendly staff, awesome food and great bike/mechanic facilities. Would recommend.
I know what data you deliberately used - I'm just not convinced about the catching up fast bit. Don't forget a lot of our new (younger) 1st doses will be other vaccines, and there is a push to shorten the 2nd dose gap where possible.
It will be very interesting to see at what level different countries flatten out.
Looking forward to French Alps 2022! (hopefully not having to bounce it for a third time.....)
I’m just not convinced about the catching up fast bit.
Well compare these numbers (click "suivi de la vaccination"):
https://dashboard.covid19.data.gouv.fr/suivi-vaccination?location=FRA
with the UK numbers I linked two posts ago for now and 2.5 months ago.
Europe is recieving lots of deliveries and using them, hence the current catch up. Fingers crossed they quickly end up in people's arms rather than sitting in a fridge while the government resorts to US tactics such as freebies and cash handouts to get people into vaccination centers.
Europe is recieving lots of deliveries and using them, hence the current catch up. Fingers crossed they quickly end up in people’s arms rather than sitting in a fridge while the government resorts to US tactics such as freebies and cash handouts to get people into vaccination centers.
I've been reading a lot of French news sites the last couple of days, it seems recently at least, it's perhaps not so much as case of reluctance to get Jabbed, but poor, compartmentalised booking processes (well, it's probably no coincidence 'bureaucracy' is a French word) they've recently opened up vaccines to the under 50s, like here it crashed the system, but theirs sounds even more chaotic. Supposedly, like trying to buy festival tickets, you spend a few hours mashing refresh on a web page, and if you're lucky you might get a slot, only then do you discover where it is, and 3-5 hour journeys are not uncommon.
Anyway, some young lad over there has managed to come up with a website that manages to pull in data from all the various regional / private vaccine booking systems to give people a single, mostly efficient way of booking, they gave him the Order of Merit for it.
I love France, and the French people, they has a wonderful '**** you' way of looking at things, which somehow it's as aggressive as '**** you' sounds, or it is more like 'the customer is always wrong' type of thing, anyway, so it's pain when you want to do something and they're closed for 3 hours in the middle of the day, but I understand people want to spend time with their families etc, but it seem ill suited to mass vaccination programmes.
The seven day average seems to be about 500k vaccinations per day in France and 600k in the UK if I am reading the data correctly
Supposedly, like trying to buy festival tickets, you spend a few hours mashing refresh on a web page, and if you’re lucky you might get a slot, only then do you discover where it is, and 3-5 hour journeys are not uncommon.
I was just chatting to a younger colleague here in Bristol. She has now booked both jabs: the website tells her that Jab 1 is in Weston Super Mare, Jab 2 is in Bath.
Jab 2 is, also, about 11 weeks before Jab 1.
So we're doing reasonably well, but this kind of stuff is not unknown here too!
There's a system and it works. But sometimes using it requires thought. I went along for two x-rays yesterday: suspected pneumonia and a neck x-ray. At reception the person trained in obstruction said I couldn't have both because ... bollox... and I'll book you in for second appointment tomorrow. In that case I'll have the neck x-ray I said. When I walked out I had a look in the envelope and sure enough there were both neck and chest x-rays - what medical professional would not immediately do a chest x-ray for someone with suspected pneumonia? Happily it's not pneumonia, just bad bronchitis. There is no place in the world I'd rather be ill than France.
The quacks get reported because "râler" is a fun national pass time, the around 500 000 vaccinations a day suggest that overall the system is working pretty well. As I said earlier, junior is only 23 and found a vaccination slot yesterday.
3 hours is an exageration, it's rarely more than 2 in these parts.
I was just chatting to a younger colleague here in Bristol. She has now booked both jabs: the website tells her that Jab 1 is in Weston Super Mare, Jab 2 is in Bath.
Jab 2 is, also, about 11 weeks before Jab 1.
So we’re doing reasonably well, but this kind of stuff is not unknown here too!
Ah, I forget the English system is... erm different to the Welsh one.
In Cardiff at least, anyone over 18 (although over 16s are being jabbed too) can get a walk-in jab this weekend.
Yes, I'm showing off a bit.
I find it impossible to believe that there isn’t already community transmission of the Indian variant in the EU. With that in mind , stopping vaccinated, negative test U.K. visitors sounds political rather than scientific.
The French don't want the Indian variant spreading. This is exactly the same as their reaction to the Kent variant, the restrictions last time lasted about 2 weeks, once they realised the Kent variant was already all over France. The same will happen with this, in a few weeks they will let us all in. They had already planned to allow us to sue the NHS app as a Vaccine
passport.