[Closed] Random Americana

is this university challenge ?

burger king 😆

[i]is this university challenge ?[/i]

I'm pretty drunk, so it's more like Universally Challenged.

The Allman Brothers Band

*High Fives Noteeth*

Yeah, brother, yeah. But hands of Chan, she's mine.

I love America, spent almost 6 weeks there in the last 2 years

in no particular order:

NYC - Really is the greatest city on earth
Music, their indie scene is way better than ours
Breakfast: Dottie's True Blue Cafe in San Francisco MMMMMMMmmmmmmmmmm
The views - dead horse point, arches, bryce, grand canyon, capitol reef, Zion etc etc.
Skiing great powder at Easter.
Moab, obviously
The Engineering, bridges, roads, buildings, huge.
I love that even in the middle of the desert you can get at least 20 radio stations.
Comedy clubs, some of them make ours look like kindergartens, hillarious and very close to the bone.
Hate their cars. and their idea that Nylon sheets in a hotel is still OK!
Also hate vegas

[i]But hands of Chan[/i]

I go weak at the thought of Chan's hands.

Brooklyn Lager.
The Wire.
Grand Central Station.
The Velvet Undergorund.
Preston Sturges films.

That'll do, don't want to spoil you.

I go weak at the thought of Chan's hands.

Not a good time to go weak, old boy. Pull yourself together!

And my contribution:

Southern cooking
Dirty juke joints in the Deep South
Convertible red Mustangs on Highway 1
Bullet holes through roadsigns
Yosemite

[i]Not a good time to go weak, old boy. Pull...![/i]

If only.

Some more:

Santa Fe in "The Fall", the land thereabouts & the riding to be had
Catfish burgers
Mark Twain
Many, [i]many[/i] microbreweries
Elizabeth Bishop's [i]At the Fishhouses[/i]

They Sell brooklyn lager at my local offy

I live in Brooklyn - good for beer, not so good for mtb...

NYC is great place, but couldn't stay here for too long without losing it

Spent loads of time in the USA over the last few years,

Chicago = Portillo's Hotdogs 😯
Texas = Fudruckers Burger Joint
Florida = Mr M.Mouse + friends

Levis Jeans/Nike trainers/Old Navy clothing co. all at decent prices

But over all these - the best thing from the USofA has to be Mountain Dew !!! 😀

Ooh - and the Foo Fighters !

oh definitely second Gillian, Chan/Cat (obviously), The Velvets and The Wire. And a laugh a t Mountain Dew, yup I miss that.

Add:

Colorado (coz Boulder, Crested Butte, Leadville & Fruita would notch up four alone).
High mountain girls (I love you all...)
Merle Haggard
Bonnie 'Prince' Billy
Burritos
Quality micro brewery 'wit' beer (i.e. New Belgium Brewery, etc)

As an aside has anybody watched the CP Cross Bones Style on youtube?

[i]As an aside has anybody watched the CP Cross Bones Style on youtube?[/i]

Many times - she is a dancing goddess.

(linked in first post, btw)

[i]Colorado (coz Boulder, Crested Butte, Leadville & Fruita would notch up four alone).[/i]

I need a holiday.

San Fransisco pretty cool city
Biking Marin County still gr8
Wilco gr8 band

Some more eating:

The Mexican restaurant I went into in Cambridge, MA with the saltiest Margaritas I've ever tasted (not there any more)
Rendezvous and Hueys, Memphis
Las Brisas, Laguna Beach
Waffles for breakfast on Main Street, Santa Barbara
The Capitol Grill, Hermitage Hotel, Nashville

Some sleeping:

Peabody Hotel, Memphis (especially the cocktails in the lounge and the famous Peabody Ducks)
Hermitage Hotal, Nashville

NYC - Really is the greatest city on earth

Utter bollocks. It's got a few tall buildings, a couple of art galleries, and a bit of character. No real history, and it's shyte if you're poor. Stinks to high heaven, and many people are really, really pretentious and false. Everyone's after what they can get out of you.

It's like a sugar-coated turd.

Fred - that's wonderful. Ta.

But I like some Americana music, & crabcakes.

[b]Daisy Duke[/b]

[i] It's got a few tall buildings, a couple of art galleries, and a bit of character. [s]No real history[/s], and it's shyte if you're poor. Stinks to high heaven, and many people are really, really pretentious and false. Everyone's after what they can get out of you.

It's like a sugar-coated turd.[/i]

this is my impression of London

Delta Blues
The noise that Harley Davidsons make, even though the bikes are rubbish
Humphrey Bogart movies (because Bogey stuff is [b]movies[/b])
Marx Brothers films
PCs because I'd never have a got a proper job wthout them and Unix because I know just enough to b/s my way out of difficult situations
Jelly Bellys
George Bush - I haven't laughed so much for ages, whatever you think now, in a couple of years you'll be looking forward to the Christmas Specials and he'll be appreciated as much as Morecambe and Wise or Tommy Cooper
Ice Road Truckers - is that Canada, does that count?
My Name Is Earl - specificaly any scenes that involve Catalina doing the near-naked jumping thing she does.
Spaghetti Westerns

The noise that Harley Davidsons make, even though the bikes are rubbish

True. I've just got sky, and so have been catching up on endless epsiodes of American Chopper.

I soooo want a bike now.

finally some positive comments about the States.

what I miss most:
Food: real Mexican, North Carolina BBQ, Ranch Dressing, KrispyKreme, Juniors Cheesecake, ICED TEA
Music: MMW, Charlie Hunter, bluegrass, Bonnaroo

Punk Rock (yes it's American, where do you think the term comes from?)

As an aside has anybody watched the CP Cross Bones Style on youtube?

Many times - she is a dancing goddess.

(linked in first post, btw)

ah, so it is. never noticed/clicked. duh...

this is my impression of London

Then you, Sir, are naught but a Philistine and a bounder.

America's got some good stuff, don't get me wrong, and NYC's ok, but Greatest City on Earth? Not even top ten.

1. Peanut butter twix
2. Gas pumps you can keep on without having to squeeze the lever
3. Ritz bitz
4. Drive in Movies
5. Free refills
6. National Parks
7. Hot springs (in various locations)
8. Proper weather
9. Peanut butter twix
10. The phrase "Y'all"

[i]Then you, Sir, are naught but a Philistine and a bounder.[/i]

he he 😉

Absolutly nothing. ( bar perhaps some scenery)

things to hate - plenty.

Guantanamo
5% of the worlds population, 25% of the worlds pollution.
Warmongering
Cultural imperialism / disneyfication
Deposing of democratic governments and imposing puppet dictators. - (chile venezuala for example)
Arming rebel groups ( Nicaragua)
Arming both sides in wars for profit ( Iran Iraq)

IMO the USA is the biggest force for evil in the wold. Responsible for far more deaths than any other country since WW2

And breathe

Love:
1. The scenery. There are some beautiful places
2. The space. I'd love to own several hundred acres of Motana or Vermont
3. Cheap petrol
4. errrrrr
5. Hmmmmmm
6. Ability to own handguns
7. Decent steaks
8. You can turn right on a stop signal
9. Thier roads seem to have fewer potholes than ours
10. Some of them can be really nice people

Hate:
1. The cities
2. The time it takes to get anywhere
3. hugely inefficient cars. I mean, a 5.7 l V8 for going to the shops? for ****s's sake.
4. People that drive _verywhere_. Even between office blocks that are next to each other.
5. The huge number of really fat people
6. The fact that most peope own handguns because they feel too scared to live without one
7. No concept of healthy eating
8. monumentally shit cars that don't steer, stop or accelerate. I've driven more responsive ox carts
9. roads have no bends in them
10. Most of them are ****ers

[i]Cultural imperialism / disneyfication[/i]

Sorry to say this, but with one or two exceptions, American culture isn't ubiquitous because it's foisted on the rest of the world. It's popular because it has appeal for a lot of people.

TJ - while I do enjoy your apprently irony-less posts, most of what you say could also be attributed to Britain. Some examples:

Concentration camps and scorched earth warfare - Britain (Boer War)
Ethnic cleansing in Malaya in the 1800s - Britain, in relaiton to the ethnic Chinese
Imperialism - many examples - how about the invasion of Afghanistan as part of the Great Game?
Cultutal imperialsim - look at te hordes going to Spain on holiday and shouting in English to be understood
Falklands - the sinking of the Belgrano; Pinochet's relationship with Thatcher and the refuelling of British planes in Chile
The JJB/HMV/Waterstones/WH Smith-ification of the high street and the loss of independent businesses
BAE selling military vehicles to the regime in Sudan - you know, helping with the genocide in Darfur
Matrix Churchill selling arms to iraq

The list could go on, but the point is this: for all the things you may loathe about a country, there are also many wonderful things hidden under the surface.

I thank the US for inventing (or hugley influential in)

1. the television we watch
2. the telephone we use
3. the ipod
4. the music we listen to
5. cinema/movies
6 the internet
7. extreme sports
8. computing technology
9. denim
10. beef jerky

Also the friendliness of 'normal' american people and any country that has 4 -way stops.

I thank the US for inventing (or hugley influential in)

1. the television we watch: Good Lord, seriously?
2. the telephone we use: Think that was a transatlantic development, but granted, they spent loads of money on it.
3. the ipod: MP3 more a collaboration between scientists globally; iPod designed by Jonathan Ive; British bloke.
4. the music we listen to: A fair amount, of 'Pop' music, certainly. Also, Jazz and stuff. but I listen to all sorts, including Classical, Reggae, techno etc, which are mainly not from the US.
5. cinema/movies: Bollywood is actually more prolific, and the films are seen by audinences as large as, if not bigger. And Hollywood may churn out quantity, but not necessarily quality. But I'll give you, the US has probably done more to advance the medium.
6 the internet: Fair enough! Although again, a collaboration of scientists/engineers worldwide.
7. extreme sports: most of the winter ones were developed in Europe, XC MTB is a development of Cyclo-Cross, Parascending, Base-Jumping, Bunjee jumping etc are all European too. The US, through TV, has popularised many of these sports, however.
8. computing technology: early developments were made in Britain and Europe (see [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Babbage ]Charles Babbage[/url], and I think the Japanese might have someting to say about the development of technology. US has been successful in marketing OS's, though.
9. denim: Fair enough.
10. beef jerky: Preserving beef/meat in this manner has existed for thousands of years, all over the World.

So. Not wishing to discount the enormous impact the US has undoubtedly made on global culture, society, industry and technology, a lot of claims of 'Americans invented all stuff' is simply not true. I've heard Americans claim that their country invented the TV, the Bicycle, the Car, the Camera and numerous other things. Myths perpetuated by their enormous media systems, and basic ignorance of actual facts.

They are good at taking others ideas, developing them, then passing them off as their own. I'll give them that.

FFS, Fred, have you and TJ got the "decorators" in or something this week?

yep rude boy - i said invented or hugely influential

1. the television we watch: Good Lord, seriously? [b]yep. Not necessarily speaking about the content more the technology. (although there have been classic US programs, films, cartoons that have graced our TVs over the years) US were hugely influential in development of television technology and without their investment the adoption of television would have been years later. satellite? Cable? Again without US influence.....[/b]
2. the telephone we use: Think that was a transatlantic development, but granted, they spent loads of money on it. [b]Without the investment of US firms, again would it's adoption been much later?[/b]
3. the ipod: MP3 more a collaboration between scientists globally; iPod designed by Jonathan Ive; British bloke.- [b]a british bloke who couldn't raise £60k to finance it? Again US company, US investment.[/b]
4. the music we listen to: A fair amount, of 'Pop' music, certainly. [b]Again the history and origins of rock/pop music could be debated- did it all not originate from Celtic folk music? But general consensus is black slaves started playing Celtic Folk music in different key and slower beat adding their own lryics which became known as R&B. This was then stole back by whites such as Elvis and became Rock & Roll, then brit rock then pop. The rest is history.[/b] Also, Jazz and stuff. but I listen to all sorts, including Classical, Reggae [b](is that not based on Ska that is based on R&B & Jazz?)[/b] techno [b](admittedly Kraftwerk and New Order can be seen as the early innovators however without the influence of disco, funk, gay, chicago house movement that evolved into acid house who knows would we have techno music?)[/b], which are mainly not from the US.
5. cinema/movies: Bollywood is actually more prolific, and the films are seen by audinences as large as, if not bigger. And Hollywood may churn out quantity, but not necessarily quality. But I'll give you, the US has probably done more to advance the medium.
6 the internet: Fair enough! Although again, a collaboration of scientists/engineers worldwide.
7. extreme sports: most of the winter ones were developed in Europe, XC MTB is a development of Cyclo-Cross, Parascending, Base-Jumping, Bunjee jumping etc are all European too. [b]The US, through TV, has popularised many of these sports, however.[/b]My point
8. computing technology: early developments were made in Britain and Europe (see Charles Babbage, and I think the Japanese might have someting to say about the development of technology. US has been successful in marketing OS's, though. [b]again without US companies such as Cisco, IBM, Dell, Compaq, HP, Lucent, Microsoft, Apple and the supporting EMS industry where would computing be?[/b]
9. denim: Fair enough.
10. beef jerky: Preserving beef/meat in this manner has existed for thousands of years, all over the World.[b] I only put this one in cause i couldn't think of a tenth :oops:[/b]

So. Not wishing to discount the enormous impact the US has undoubtedly made on global culture, society, industry and technology, a lot of claims of 'Americans invented all stuff' is simply not true. I've heard Americans claim that their country invented the TV, the Bicycle, the Car, the Camera and numerous other things. Myths perpetuated by their enormous media systems, and basic ignorance of actual facts.

They are good at taking others ideas, developing them, then passing them off as their own. I'll give them that. as the japanese. [b] Maybe the Euro's are good at inventing stuff & there's a lot I dislike about US politics, economics, world police, arrogance etc but i think sometimes we find it difficult to give the US credit where credit is due. [/b]

I'm not discounting the enormous influence the US has had, as I pointed out!

They're masters at marketing things, and have certainly invested more heavily than most other countries.

But you could make the argument that many other nations have also been just as influential; without Japan, hwere would modern computer technology be?

My 'issue' with the US, is that they often seem to ignore where all the good ideas have come from, and market them as their own. Indeed, most of their stuff is made abroad. World's biggest consumers.

So, your statement abut the US 'inventing' stuff relates to two things; The internet (and even that one's debatable, as many other countries were researching similar things, but the US did give us the internet in the form we know it today); and Denim. Which is merely a process of adding indigo dye to heavy cotton.

It's just a shame, that to drive all this industry and development, they see fit to have to attack so many other nations, to gain power and control over resources.

For balance, I use Apple Macs, Windoze, Kodak film, ride a Cannondale, and listen to Jimi Hendrix, Samuel Barber, Blondie and the Doors. Can't stand Spam, though.

Rudeboy, xenophobia aside, you've missed the point of this thread completely.

Culture-wise in particular you are well off the mark - you've got the usual crap Hollywood films but you've also got Martin Scorcese, Ang Lee, Tim Burton, Terry Gilliam, John Waters, the Coen Brothers, Jim Jarmusch, and hosts of other people all swimming in a different direction to the mainstream. There is way more diversity in the US film industry than the UK film industry, which seems to turn out a Jane Austen adaptation and a retread of "Four Weddings and a Funeral" every couple of years, or Bollywood films with their obligatory formulaic storylines and cheesy mimed song-and-dance numbers. TV-wise America has been churning out top entertainment for years, from Star Trek to The Simpsons.

You reckon America is responsible for "pop" music (and I'd agree with that - the technology to record music was invented by an American, and the Beatles and the Stones both started out directly copying US r'n'b), but also jazz, soul, rock 'n'roll, punk, disco, rap, you name it, pretty much every modern genre of music was fomented in America, or inspired by American music. Reggae came about from Jamaican sound systems playing the American rhythm & blues hits of the day, and techno and house music both originated in America (incidentally both started out a lot more cerebral and sophisticated than the glow-stick-waving toss which they're synonymous with today). America has made massive contributions to "classical" music too, name me any British composers of the past 50 years who have created such a distinctive and original body of work as Steve Reich or John Cage.

As for mountain biking, while people have been riding bikes off road for years, the mountain bike as we know it is definitely an American invention - it didn't start when someone wedged fat tyres into their cyclocross frame.

The USA is a massive place and no matter what you think of their government's policies or the elements of their popular culture you'll find something rewarding if you look below the surface. That is all.

OK I'll add number 10

10. Japan.(also considered to be good at stealing ideas). Japanese industry pre & post WWII churned out inferior, poor quality copies of western goods. It was transformed by American Dr Edwards Deming.

So you agreed with two things the US have invented, but also agreed on 5 points were the US have contributed (hugely)to the invention and adoption.

Comparing Hollywood and Bollywood, especially using Quality over Quantity as an argument, is a matter of taste and maybe cultural background. For me, the US has released most of my favourite films. If i was French, I may have a selected a 3rd option.

Vegas - tacky
Grand Canyon - beautiful
Hoover Dam - magnificent
Central park - beautiful - just go and people watch
Top of Empire State - awe inspiring
Brooklyn bridge - got to be done
Free ferry from battery park to staten island - fantastic view of downtown manhatten
Broadway - you can meet the whole of the worlds nationalities just walking down it..

well I'd just like to say I spent several months many years ago delivering cars around the US and it's a fab place with (on the whole) very friendly people - much more so than here (of course not all their intentions may be honourable)

Knew I'd get this kind of response...

'Xenophobia'? Ok then, whatever.

You could also argue that every single genre of music popularised in America has it's roots elsewhere. Film? Many of the best directors have also come from overseas, and one could argue that the current crop of US directors have been influenced by these people. Plus, many European artists and film-makers fled to America, during the last War. And you appear to have too little knowledge of Bollywood films, to offer an informed opinion, tbh. And I think the British film industry is a little more diverse than what you suggest.

I'll disagree re the techno music thing. Kraftwerk, Pink Floyd, Tangerine Dream, Einsturzende Neubaten, Karl Henz Stochausen and [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_Who_theme_music ]Delia Derbyshire[/url] could all be considered influences, and most of these predated the Detroit and Chicago House scenes by a fair bit.

Classical?: Benjamin Britten, Vaughan Williams, John Taverner, Andrew Maxwell Davis, Michael Tippet, John Williams...

My point is, that too often, the US presents stuff as it's own, without actually acknowledging foreign influences at all. And many Americans believe that they 'invented' everything. Which is why I won't gush about America's 'influence' as much as some people. team effort, a lot of the time.

And as for any suggestion that I'm 'anti-American', well...

A land that is one of the most geographically diverse on Earth.
A culture that is rich in diversity and co-operation.
A philosophy of 'anyone can achieve anything'.
And a desire to triumph, that perhaps we would do well to adopt, in many circumstances.

But so much of the US is artificial, contrived, insincere.

Just trying to offer a balanced opinion, that's all.

Personally, I would love to visit more of the US. But there's loads of other places too. The US is not the be all and end all, is all I'm saying.

Ps; my current fave film? No Country For Old Men. Yank, I believe...

my missus

Rudeboy, I think Noteeth started this thread with the idea that people would single out bits of American culture that they liked, not turn it into the typical chip-on-the-shoulder rant about "yanks". As far as I'm concerned, it doesn't matter where something started, but to make out that America is a country with no culture of its own, other than what it appropriates and passes off, is just rubbish.

Oh and I'll see your Delia Derbyshire, and raise you [url= http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4486840 ]Louis and Bebe Barron[/url]. 😉

9. denim: Fair enough.

Mr Jacob Davies, the tailor who first thought it would be a good idea to cut the hardwearing material into trousers was actually Latvian and his business partner Mr Levi Strauss, who funded the patent and helped get the business off the ground, was German.

[i]...most of these predated the Detroit and Chicago House scenes by a fair bit.[/i]

Maybe so (especially the marvellous Delia) - but I'd say that the likes of [url= http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=8MTM4p0Hx0o ]this[/url] majestic record are particular to a certain time and place (old Detroit techno being the sound of brokenhearted machinery... or something). But you're right: "culture" is mostly a bastardised thing.

[i]Absolutely nothing[/i]

Imo, rather akin to saying that Faulkner can't be considered a great writer - because of American policy in Vietnam (I accept this might be a question of taste). [i]Contra[/i] much of this thread - it's not about who invented what, but the plain ol' geography of it all. For example, in case I hadn't mentioned it, Chan Marshall is from the US - and I ****ing adore her, [i]even despite[/i] the aggressive hegemony of the Military-Industrial complex. Come on! You've got nearly 20,000 years' worth of culture(s) sat atop a vast landmass. So that's anything from Clovis points to Fat City Cycles - even TJ might be able to find something in there he likes. 🙂

[i]I think Noteeth started this thread with the idea that people would single out bits of American culture that they liked[/i]

Yes he did!

OK, back on track, here are my random 10:

Ben Davis workwear
"A Confederacy of Dunces" by John Kennedy Toole
Harry Partch
Grand Royal magazine
[url= http://www.penandpixel.com/ ]Pen and Pixel[/url] album covers
Pastrami
House Industries (and the old type faces that inspired them)
Fantagraphics comics
Ten pin bowling
Slint

9. denim: Fair enough.

denim -> de Nimes (french) -> "from Nimes" - the material has a French origin

Mr Jacob Davies, the tailor who first thought it would be a good idea to cut the hardwearing material into trousers was actually Latvian and his business partner Mr Levi Strauss, who funded the patent and helped get the business off the ground, was German.

Oh dear, another one that's missed the point.

No matter where Mr Strauss (albeit Loeb Strauss was an American Citizen when he is accredited with starting Levi Strauss & Co) or Davies originated from, it was still in the US that 'denim jeans' 1st were made and became one of the most popular form of clothing for the Western world. If Strauss had remained in Bavaria/ davies in Lativia would they just be another regional dress like lederhosen, kilts, saris etc? Who knows.

If you were being that picky you would know that 'de nimes' was material made of silk and wool, jeans (from Genoa) was cotton & linen. The material most recognisable as 'Denim jeans' was developed in North Carolina and historians still debate why 'denim' and 'jeans' were used to describe 'denim jeans'.

I'll stick to the listing rather than the big debate!

Yeti Cycles
The Sopranos
Coen Brothers films
Iggy (pre-Swift Covered!)
MGMT
Muhammad Ali
er, 4 more...
TV on the Radio (band)
Subtle (band)
Elmore Leonard
Aaron Pryor

Pen and Pixel - how STW mag covers [i]should[/i] be done.

Ginger Rogers and Fred Astaire.

Oh dear, another one that's missed the point.

ever try reading the thread before posting an "oh dear, look at how clever i am" reply?

Someone posted 10 reasons to like America, someone else replied refuting every one bar no 9 - denim. So I replied that denim isn't 100% american.
maybe we should start a "random things about britain" and start it with supercilious daily mail reading tw*ts

..and how come no-one's mentioned the Weekly World News? top stuff and very "only in america"

FOX
CNN

LOL ! ....

gotta hand it to 'em, they invented "cool"

imho of course

I have not got the decorators in! My list was partly serious and partly not

I really dislike the deliberate harm the Americans have done and still do - the counter examples given about Britain are also true but are mainly very old and the more recent stuff involves far fewer deaths.

Take Chile for example. Salvador Allende was democratically elected. He was deposed in a coup by American backed forces. This resulted in decades under dictatorship where tens of thousands were killed.

Or Venezuala. They democratically elected a socialist. The USA has attempted to oust him several times despite Chaves having an obvious popular mandate.

Iran / Iraq war - there was a deliberate policy to arm both sides in the was to ensure maximum destruction of both countries.

I really think they have been a major driving force behind much evil that has been done since the secoind world war.

David Simon
Al Jourgenson
Will Oldham
Gus Van Sant
William Burroughs
Glen A Larson
Jeff Buckley
Ben Stiller
TV on the Radio
Harrison Ford

Oh dear, another one that's missed the point.

ever try reading the thread before posting an "oh dear, look at how clever i am" reply?

Someone posted 10 reasons to like America, someone else replied refuting every one bar no 9 - denim. So I replied that denim isn't 100% american.
maybe we should start a "random things about britain" and start it with supercilious daily mail reading tw*ts

..and how come no-one's mentioned the Weekly World News? top stuff and very "only in america"

Hello Mr Pot, my name is Mr Kettle.

That's a mighty big brush you have there TJ. And a mighty big pot of tar.

[i]TV on the Radio[/i]

Good man 🙂

DezB - Have you seen Subtle live? Caught them at ULU last year or year before and they were incredible. All-time top five, easily.

Does One (?) really knows how to work the crowd.

No, I haven't you git!
Subtle and TV on the Radio are on my must-see list. Then I can die happy.

the counter examples given about Britain are also true but are mainly very old and the more recent stuff involves far fewer deaths

Ah, so that's OK, is it?

TJ, you don't like any Americans because of what has been done by the American state.

That's like saying I don't like any of the Scotch people because of Gordon Brown. Or any of the French because of Mururoa Atol. Or any of the Germans because of WW2. Or Chinese because of Tiananmen Square.

You are ridiculous sometimes, and while I would defend to the hilt your right to be ridiculous, you are nonetheless showing yourself to be fundamentally prejudiced. You made a poor statement first time round, which you have subsequently felt the need to defend because admitting you were being an idiot would be too much to bear.

😀

Did the Americans invent the word "pwned"?

I've got something I like about America!

Wall-E.

What a truly brilliant film. And in fact, there, I have to give a nod to walt Disney, and the Disney Studios, for some of the best films ever made, really. Considering the enjoyment they bring to millions. Two of my recent faves have been Monsters Inc. and Finding Nemo. 'Kids' films? Yeah, right!

I'm kind of with TJ on some points, though. The US has had the wealth to exploit it's industries and cultural production, mainly because of it's exploitation of many other countries. So, much of it's output is sadly tinged with the blood of such endeavors. Plus, there is still gross injustice in America itself, with many of the countries poor living no better than in many third-world countries. The US is still home to communities that are segregated by strong cultural and social divisions.

Enough of the negative, though, although I think people would do well to be mindful of the facts, tbh. I find it quite disturbing how American 'culture' is greedily devoured by the masses, all over the World. Seems we, in Britain at least, are increasingly living in a society where people think for themselves less and less, and are more content to have 'culture' spoon-fed to them, through various forms of consumerism.

And let's face it; of all the film, music etc that is churned out by the US, how much of it actually contains any meaningful substance? Britain may not have a film industry to rival Hollywood, but then, we don't churn out utter shyte, such as High School Musical, or Independence Day.

McDonalds, anyone?

Leatherman Tools are good, though...

have you seen the incredibles rudeboy? excellent film

And let's face it; of all the film, music etc that is churned out by the US, how much of it actually contains any meaningful substance?

How much of any art contains meaningful substance, other than what the viewer, reader or listener imbues it with? And just because 99% of art is inoffensive dross, does that invalidate the 1% that's made with genuine fire, passion, vision and skill?

On a related note, did watching Wall-E make you decide to turn your heat down, or realise you could live without getting full speed out of your broadband?

Not as good as those other ones I've mentioned, Lobby, imo. Good fun, though, yes.

Actually, I've been wracking my brains trying to think of positive things about America that I do like, but it seems that I'm just not a big fan of Americana, and not just for political reasons.

But, I'll give it a go:

*1950s' styles, in Cars, fridges and all sorts of things. An era when people dreamed of space travel, other worlds and stuff. swoopy lines,outlandish designs, totally impractical sometimes. Ice-cream parlours, Corvette Stingray, Ford Thunderbird, Winnebagoes..

*Chrysler building, New York. Perhaps the finest example of Art Deco architecture, anywhere.

*Velvet Underground; a collection of very talented musicians and poets, producing some really gritty, meaningful music.

*George Eastman; founder of Kodak. As a photographer, I couldn't possibly ignore that.

*Ansel Adams; see above; hugely inspirational and one of the most important figures in the history of photography.

*[url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alvin_Toffler ]Alvin Toffler[/url]; author of one of the most thought-provoking books I've ever read, '[url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_Shock ]Future Shock[/url]'

*Apple Computer Inc.; for making something I can actually use...

*NASA; for spending pornographic amounts of money, doing mad stuff, and giving us Teflon, Lycra, Kevlar, smoke alarms and pens that can write under water. And loads of other stuff.

*Trying deperately to think of a worthy invention, then ping! The metaphorical light-bulb switched on in my head: Thomas Edison.

*And last, but not least; Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you....

...the potato.

[img] [/img]

[i]Velvet Underground; a collection of very talented musicians [/i]

You'd get a lot of arguments about that from the Leona Lewis is a "good singer" brigade.

Edit: Although most of them probably won't know who the Velvet Underground are.

I like the Velvets and Leona.

OK, I like the Velvets a lot more, and I've only heard two Leona songs, but it would be difficult to argue she's a bad singer.

btw Dezb - Have you heard Boom Bip? Don't want to teach you how to suck eggs, but he's very similar to Subtle.

Saw him playing Royal Festival Hall supporting Tipsy a few years back. Two more musical treats the US have given us.

Right. Things I like:

My Mrs
My Mrs's family
The landscape out West
Openly friendly people (yes, Brits are friendly too but they need prompting)
Tex-Mex food
Sitting on the porch drinking beer in the sunshine chatting to the neighbours passing by
Going into a restaurant and getting served straight away and fed within 10 minutes
Being able to stop anywhere and get good food
The Trek corporation
The Specialized corporation
American music (off the top of my head Green Day, Third Eye Blind, REM, the Strokes, Incubus, Counting Crows, Fountains of Wayne, Moby and about a million others)
American films (almost every film I've loved)
American Radio - being able to listen to the above any time you want
Shops where the staff actually know what they are selling
Starbucks (and other places that have bothered to go beyond hot water and cheap coffee grounds)
Culvers
People who understand an appreciation of the outdoors without thinking you're some kind of freak
Did I mention my lovely Wife?
Maine
Oregon

Oh and I almost forgot:

TACO BELL! YEAH!

American TV- HBo specially, but the Simpsons, the Wire, Battlestar Galactica
Hawaii
Friendliness and openness of the people (in most places), and their politeness and hospitality even when your world view and their's disagree
the National Parks
NASA
Pete Seger and Steve Earle
The attitude of shop and service industry workers that puts this country's to shame
That what's effectively a federation of 50 countries actually works pretty well.
The patriotism.

I don't get this 'no history' nonsense. The country was only founded 200 years ago, yes, but a hell of a lot has happened - and it's pretty much all documented. New York has a much longer, more interesting and more varied history than the city I live in - Cardiff.