[Closed] Ramadan Mubarak

Thanks Cougar. Apologies if I went off on one at you before

If you did I missed it, so [s]you got away with it[/s] we're good.

"unfortunately not all Muslims are like Gonzy" - no, they aren't. But is he (she?) representative or unusal?

Gonzy is a he and in my personal experience Muslims are remarkably nice people. But that's quite possibly due to the fact that I show them respect when I interact with them. I sure if I had enfht's attitude I probably wouldn't find them quite that pleasant.

Well that's not true.

Well, it is. Someone was killed only a couple of weeks ago for supporting someone else's view of moderate Islam. I don't remember exact details, it's been a long week and I'm tired and want to watch Big Brother, but I can trawl back to find out if you really don't believe me.

And no, it's almost certainly not representative of Islam as a whole; on a large scale there are "excellent relations" but there's a degree of scaremongering. I used the word "visible" for a reason; it's what people see, and what some Western media latches on to in order to feed that.

Oh, wait, it was on the back of the election of London's mayor.

(Are we derailing again, do I need to ban myself?)

Well, it is. Someone was killed only a couple of weeks ago for supporting someone else's view of moderate Islam. I don't remember exact details, it's been a long week and I'm tired and want to watch Big Brother, but I can trawl back to find out if you really don't believe me.

No I believe you. But that's not what you said. You said "Islam is visibly quite scary to the West". I don't think it is, despite that tragic incident in Scotland which you refer to.

But is he (she?) representative or unusal?

Not knowing Gonzy I'd say representative. From what he (she?) has said.

What I inferred is that it's not unusual for Muslims (in prison) to blag the Ramadan food & have a big Eid feast but not stick anywhere near the 'guidelines' of Islam.
Like you said,

they're all people. Not all Muslims / Christians / Men / Vegetarians / Lesbians / Cucumbers are like (something you do or don't have a problem with).

Although I don't know where cucumbers come into it.

A serious question for Gonzy because I'm interested - how are dawn and dusk defined nowadays? I've always liked the traditional definition, being able to tell the difference between black and white threads, but is there a modern more precise measure? Or is it done from sunrise and sunset times?

Although I don't know where cucumbers come into it

You obviously don't remember the bloody Cucumber vs Courgette wars of the Middle Ages.

(Are we derailing again, do I need to ban myself?)

No just go and stand on the naughty step for 20 minutes and think about what you've done 😉

 

Apologies if it generates negative feelings for phobics and trolls but Ramadan Mubarak to everyone. 🙂

You said "Islam is visibly quite scary to the West". I don't think it is

Of course it is. Whether it's [i]justifiably[/i] scary is another matter. It could be benign and still scary, it's all about perception.

You obviously don't remember the bloody Cucumber vs Courgette wars of the Middle Ages.

And more recently the increasing incidence of drive-by fruitings.

"The West" is an awfully big thing, and also includes many Muslims - I think most people in the West are refined enough to find Islamists scary without applying that to all Muslims. At least I optimistically hope so.

And more recently the increasing incidence of drive-by fruitings

[img] [/img]

Btw perhaps I should qualify this comment I previously made :

I sure if I had enfht's attitude I probably wouldn't find them quite that pleasant.

by pointing out that even in the face of hostility Muslims can still be remarkably nice people. As this excellent example shows :

[url= https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2013/may/27/york-mosque-protest-tea-biscuits ]York mosque counters EDL protest with tea, biscuits and football [/url]

[b][i]Around half a dozen people arrived for the protest, promoted online by supporters of the EDL. A St George's flag was nailed to the wooden fence in front of the mosque.

However, after members of the group accepted an invitation into the mosque, tensions were rapidly defused over tea and plates of custard creams, followed by an impromptu game of football.[/i][/b]

Of course it could be just "the fear of violence" which caused the Muslims at the mosque to extend cordiality to the EDL members. Although I suspect not.

It's a mix of the two Bencooper. Sunset can be quite easily defined as when it's visibly obvious the sun will set. Sunrise is a bit trickier. You may recall that I've said that after 2.30am or thereabouts I can no longer eat even though sunrise is not officially until around 4.30am. That is because the time is calculated off a method similar to how the nautical twilight is calculated so therefore the morning prayer can be performed some time before the sun actually rises. There is a caveat here that says you cannot perform this prayer in the 20 minutes before or after the actual sunrise. Therefore it is permitted to perform it before and because the time is the intention to fast is made before this prayer eating has to stop earlier that the official sunrise.

No fruitings yet, It's still daylight!

Of course it is. Whether it's justifiably scary is another matter. It could be benign and still scary, it's all about perception.

I'm sorry "the West" are individuals? Well ok I guess many people find Islam quite scary. Although personally I don't find it in the least bit scary.

In fact I would rather have devote Muslims as neighbours than some alcoholic halfwits who have never seen the inside of a mosque.

Interesting, so does everyone do their own calculations, or is there a standard set of tables calibrated for the right latitude?

I think this, along with the facing Mecca thing, explains why Arabs were so good at astronomy and mathematics in the Middle Ages.

It's gone a bit civil here again...."Puts the ray gun back"

You have a ray gun? Typical violent Muslim 😉

If you'd care to look back on my output on previous religion threads you'll quickly realise the ludicrousness of your belief.

As for "requested," absolutely categorically not.

1) Your moderating behaviour on many threads certainly isn't/wasn't as aggressive/attentive on those as you have decided to be on this one which would either mean a change of behaviour or special treatment.
Other hypocritical posters are definitely requesting special treatment on this thread while being happy to watch other threads resort to slanging matches without any 'peace to all men' type comments (sometimes being the name callers themselves)

2) We are discussing religion so forms of proof do not compromise my 'Belief' :0) however ludicrous.

David Icke seems to think there is trouble at the top of the established religions, I also watched his latest vid and he explains how he had to dig deep and keep fighting the fight to get his message across to the masses

I would imagine this is the attitude needed for fasting within the harder parts of the day. Dig deep and keep on keeping on

The times for prayers and sunrise and sunset are calibrated based on individual location. Not not so much as a very specific location...but for say the largest urban conurbation in the area. So Birmingham will have times specific to its last action and the surrounding towns will either follow those times or make slight calculated adjustments

Interesting, cheers.

Well ok I guess many people find Islam quite scary. Although personally I don't find it in the least bit scary.

Islam itself isn't/shouldn't be scary, It's the peabrained ****tards who go in the name of Islam that I find [s]scary[/s] odd.
There's probably the odd other religionists who are prepared to kill any non believers of their religion as well I imagine.

Some lengthy rules [url= http://www.sultan.org/fasting.html ]HERE[/url] for those genuinely interested.

You have a ray gun? Typical violent Muslim

It doesn't work though....the cheap alibaba lipo batteries keep going pop 😆

I don't often post in this type of thread but have been driven to it by a mixture of anger and IPA. What started off as a genuinely interesting insight into the practices of a significant proportion of the worlds population has been repeatedly attacked in an attempt to derail it. Perhaps all the genuinely interested people can stay here for future updates and all the others can start their own thread titled "people who have differing beliefs and practices than my own confuse and scare me".

Theocb- I'm genuinely impressed that you went to the trouble of finding that link. It's very informative and articulates some of the finer points that I can't elaborate on or don't know enough about....well done and thanks!

What I inferred is that it's not unusual for Muslims (in prison) to blag the Ramadan food & have a big Eid feast but not stick anywhere near the 'guidelines' of Islam.

I am stunned to read this. I mean if you cannot trust prisoners to tell the truth then really who can you trust?

thunderwingdoomslayer - Member
Perhaps all the genuinely interested people can stay here for future updates and all the others can start their own thread titled "people who have differing beliefs and practices than my own confuse and scare me".

You do know you are expressing an opinion that is so obvious that it is wrong?

It's not even a case of trusting or believing is it? It's more of a case of just knowing cos I work there, as you well know.

What makes something obvious wrong?

When it's posted by Chewwy.

No problem, consider it a gift for your journey my brother. I hope the link below will help you along today. May I suggest you ease back from over using modern tech today and try to focus on the deeper meanings of Ramadan

[url= https://thehumblei.com/2013/07/10/ramadan-becoming-what-you-were-born-to-be/ ]Ramadanadingdong[/url]

If you read up on David Icke and compare that to the life of Muhammed you will see there are similarities, imagine speaking out to the people when no one wants to listen, imagine being the one who has to be the first to convince the next man, carrying the responsibility of the original message.
The Holy Prophet himself had to convince his brothers and sisters of the truth, consider his journey today.

If you read up on David Icke and compare that to the life of Muhammed you will see there are similarities

Or L. Ron Hubbard, who basically made up a religion as a joke and now it's got all out of hand.

Around half a dozen people arrived for the protest, promoted online by supporters of the EDL. A St George's flag was nailed to the wooden fence in front of the mosque.

However, after members of the group accepted an invitation into the mosque, tensions were rapidly defused over tea and plates of custard creams, followed by an impromptu game of football.

I like this story, it takes real strength and courage to question yourself.. Well done the EDL supporters I say.

Specially when you consider their commitment to that famous protestant anglo-saxon motto

[img] ?w=627[/img]

I guess "no surrender unless someone comes along with a packet of custard creams" is a bit of a mouthful, and you would struggle to fit on your banners.

Not contributing, just following as I find it interesting learning about the cultural aspects rather than relating it purely to religion.

Happy Ramadan Gonzy, good luck to anyone joining him on Monday. As a proponent of the 5:2 diet, it'll be tough but I'd be cautious for those that are trying it to do completely without water for that period if you aren't used to it.

thunderwingdoomslayer - Member

What makes something obvious wrong?

1. This is a forum that views are normally scrutinized.
2. Adults know how to deal with opinions so your suggestion is nothing new.
3. This is STW so all religious belief are questioned no exception. That is called equality for all in questioning.
4. What makes your view so new that you think your suggestion is better than others' questioning?
5. This is a forum and forum needs some exciting responses and including your obvious comments (you do have value (but your have wrong reply) otherwise I would not be posting this reply to you)
6. It is for entertainment and I like entertaining so the more questioning the more opposing views the better - that's called accepting all views regardless of what they are. No exception.
7. If one thinks one is right then defend that views.
8. Do Not post a topic if you afraid of being commented or think your feeling might be hurt.
9. This not the place to hide your feeling coz keyboard warriors about.

Those are the reasons when I said that there are so many wrongs in your response.

ernie_lynch - Member
When it's posted by Chewwy.

gonzy - Member
It's gone a bit civil here again...."Puts the ray gun back"

1) Your moderating behaviour on many threads certainly isn't/wasn't as aggressive/attentive on those as you have decided to be on this one which would either mean a change of behaviour or special treatment.

I'm trying to improve the way I do things. No bad thing, n'est-ce pas? This is my thinking:

I'm very much against censorship; my stance is that you censor nothing or you censor everything, it's as soon as you start picking and choosing that you run in to difficulties.

This presents a moderatorial challenge for me when people are passionately "expressing opinions." A few years back threads would get closed on spec because they looked like they might be about to turn into an argument, and I've challenged those calls, because we're not the thought police and that's not the type of forum I want to be a part of. Freedom to talk, to exchange different opinions is a big part of what makes this forum what it is IMHO.

So, that coupled with my Aspie brain trying to interpret social interactions has meant that I rely heavily on people reporting posts; this is something I've said time and again on the forum. Otherwise I'll generally default to leaving a post rather than removing it. Ie, I'd rather under- than over-moderate when it's a grey area (and believe me, E L James vastly underestimated). A point of note here is, your typical religion thread generates zero reported posts, none, nada, zilch. This one is unusual in that regard. You want heavier moderation, hit that button more.

But what I've come to realise is, the moderation line in the sand here isn't around expressing contentious opinions or saying something stupid, rather it perhaps should be around thread derailment. Thread [i]drift [/i]is fine, often it's a good thing, it's how conversations naturally develop. Thread disruption however is becoming a problem I think. Compare and contrast, a group of mates in the pub arguing the relative merits of different football teams and one of them starts extolling the virtues of rugby; and the same situation where someone starts going "well, football's shit anyway, you're all simpletons, Jimmy Savile played football you know!" Terrible example but hopefully you see where I'm coming from.

And so that was my intention earlier on in here with my harrumphing public intervention, I wanted to allow the thread to flow and drift but wanted to try and prevent it from coming off the rails completely. Otherwise the net result is that people just stop posting anything different and we end up with a forum consisting entirely of "what tyres" and "which TV" threads.

I should point out of course, my esteemed fellow Moderators are moderating posts also, I'm only speaking for myself here and not for a second suggesting it's all Me Me Me. This isn't any new STW policy, this post is simply me trying to be transparent about what I'm doing (and to put right any [s]baseless accusations[/s] misunderstandings).

Call it an experiment if you like. Whether I'm able to keep it up or whether it's even a good idea remains to be seen, I'll probably have forgotten all about it by next week. I just thought it was worth trying.

(I hope I've not just derailed it with this post...!)

People are obviously finding this an interesting informative thread.
Keeping it on track seems entirely sensible.

I do love the chaotic nature of this place and our more eccentric compadres just add to that.
I don't mind at all when repetitive, pointless threads get derailed, but it's bloody annoying when someone genuinely has something fresh to contribute.

Thanks.

Cougar - Moderator

But what I've come to realise is, the moderation line in the sand here isn't around expressing contentious opinions or saying something stupid, rather it perhaps should be around thread derailment. Thread drift is fine, often it's a good thing, it's how conversations naturally develop. Thread disruption however is becoming a problem I think.

At the risk of thread derailing, absolutely this. It's not becoming a problem, it's been a big issue here for a long time. Derailment is vandalism essentially.

(OTOH I'm on another forum that's run by on-topic fascists, there's a balance...)

I do love the chaotic nature of this place and our more eccentric compadres just add to that.
I don't mind at all when repetitive, pointless threads get derailed, but it's bloody annoying when someone genuinely has something fresh to contribute.

Yeah, that's a good way of putting it actually.

Cougar - Moderator
A point of note here is, your typical religion thread generates zero reported posts, none, nada, zilch. [b][u]This one is unusual in that regard.[/u][/b] You want heavier moderation, hit that button more.

There you got a problem.

Basic reason is simple ALL religious belief Must be scrutinised but why is there inconsistency from posters is something I always want to understand.

My assumptions:

1. Intolerance views from both sides.

2. Someone obviously trying to prevent someone from voicing their opinions.

3. Someone is "protecting" someone unnecessarily.

4. Inconsistency with own thinking i.e. some religions can be scrutinised while some can be considered sensitive so "cannot" be questioned.

5. If one Abrahamic faith is scrutinised shouldn't ALL of them be scrutinised as well? ([b]you lot like to mock Christian belief do you not so why the cowering now?[/b])

Good explanation Cougar and my reply to you has a mixture of both responding to you and to others, kind of general so not really aiming at you ... just the way I talk.

you lot like to mock Christian belief do you not so why the cowering now?

ALL religious belief Must be scrutinised

fin25 - Member

Perhaps "mock" is too strong a word to use but if that is not you then it is not you. I am just making general reference.

You are not scrutinising, don't give yourself so much credit

I haven't even started yet coz I am scrutinising the actions of some posters for being inconsistent.

I don't mock Christians, I married one.

I am an atheist, but also, to some extent, a Buddhist

However, I am not the centre of the universe, it doesn't really matter what my opinion is.

You are right, you have every right to voice your opinion on a public forum, but that gives me the freedom to call an arsehole an arsehole, so don't cry when I call you an arsehole.

Absolutely. We are all open to scrutiny with no exception.

My eldest son will be 9 in September. Last year we let I'm fast on a few days...but nothing more than half a day on the weekends just so he would get used to it. This year he's been super excited about wanting to fast again but seeing as the fasting duration would be longer we were reluctant to let him fast.
He did a half day on Friday where he "fasted" for the rest of Friday after school. He managed it well. So we let him begin the fast with us yesterday and decided he could do a half day but he wanted to carry on. We said we'd play it by ear so if he started to wilt we'd stop him and make him eat...but I was genuinely surprised and astonished that he managed the full 19 hours and he didn't seem to be affected too much by it.
But he won't be doing another full day anytime soon. He wants to do another full day tomorrow but that's not happening...not even a half day. We might let him do a half day next weekend but we'll see how he feels next week.
Today was surprisingly easy for me and the wife...drove to Birmingham to see my father in law who's been in hospital for the last month after suffering a stroke. Got back with plenty of time to go and break our fast with my nephew and his family.
The drive there and back was a welcome distraction and helped pass some of the time.

Weighed myself this morning and the first 4 days of fasting has resulted in a 2lb weight gain!!

very eloquently put fin25

very eloquently put fin25

+1

Well I thought fin25's post was a bit confusing and rather ironic. He is an Atheist Buddhist, who doesn't think of himself as the centre of the world while telling others how they should behave and mocking the way other people choose to confront something they find very offensive. Implying people who aren't as sensible as him should shut up, and for good measure adds; if he thinks you are acting like an arsehole don't get upset when he calls you an arsehole.

Now just have a think about that for a moment.. Isn't that what people are doing on the other side of the fence?

A 2lb weight gain in 4 days 😯 I can't help thinking that a few at the mosque might have questioning eyes when they see you have put on a stone next week 😆

Try [url= http://www.layaliwebzine.com/eat-mindfully-during-ramadan/ ]THIS[/url] or something like it

yunki - Member
very eloquently put fin25

gonzy - Member

very eloquently put fin25

+1

As above plus perhaps you should also add a "thank you" to fin25 for trying to defend other posters or this thread. (may include you but you need to ask him)

theocb - Member
Well I thought fin25's post was a bit confusing and rather ironic.

gonzy - Member
Weighed myself this morning and the first 4 days of fasting has resulted in a 2lb weight gain!!

Two possibilities:
1. You weighed yourself too soon after the meal as they are still in your system.
2. Your body is trying to stock the food in preparation for starvation.

Two possibilities:
1. You weighed yourself too soon after the meal as they are still in your system.
2. Your body is trying to stock the food in preparation for starvation.

Maybe I should have been a bit more specific for you...I ate at 2am. Woke up at 10am so the food had 8 hours to digest....I also went for an all mighty dump before weighing myself.

Theocb- the weight gain isn't just down to eating unhealthy foods...we've been eating as healthily as possible..lots of salads and grilled foods and as much fruit as possible....i think the main reason for the weight gain is due to eating and then sleeping without letting the food digest properly

For all those who are going to try fasting tomorrow...it's time to start loading up. Proteins are good and so are carbs....you want to eat foods which will break down gradually over the day and release the energy slowly so that you don't fade. Make sure you get your fluids in too. 1 glass every hour should be enough.
Depending on where you are located...sunrise will be at around 4.30,am....but you'll need to check online for the exact time for your location. So after that time no eating or drinking until sunset.
I'd like to see you commenting on here so everyone can see how you're all getting on with it.
Good luck folks!!

Ooooh - it's that fasting day. Here goes...

Rachel (already missing breakfast)

Okay, I’ve decided this is really hard - its only 0930 and I really, really, want a latte…

Okay, I’ve decided this is really hard - its only 0930 and I really, really, want a latte…

dont give up...you may have already hit your personal wall...but you can do this

Main difficulty so far is knowing what to do with myself - I’m used to working in a local coffee shop in the mornings so can’t go there. Had to go to the library to get out of the house. Surrounded by crumblies…

Rachel

[img] [/img]

Well I thought fin25's post was a bit confusing and rather ironic. He is an Atheist Buddhist, who doesn't think of himself as the centre of the world while telling others how they should behave and mocking the way other people choose to confront something they find very offensive. Implying people who aren't as sensible as him should shut up, and for good measure adds; if he thinks you are acting like an arsehole don't get upset when he calls you an arsehole.

😀

Notice how I managed to accidentally illicit a threat of violence from the OP as well, I mean, it's just too easy to pull religious types into behaving in a manner that they are often charged with - but invariably deny. At the same time, they will bleat continually about being oppressed or insulted.

My work here is done, I think I've proven my point.

Notice how I managed to accidentally illicit a threat of violence from the OP as well

did you? where?

That fist above ^

I've proven my point.

did you? where?

"Say that to my face" - implies the potential use of violence.

🙂

or you are just short and should stand on a chair.

Rachel

There's no point interacting with the troll, they've already decided to be objectionable in this thread so the best that we can do is ignore them and report it to the mods.

"Say that to my face" - implies the potential use of violence.

typical...you take a small section of what i said to try and pull it out of context and on top of that you change the words....just so it fits in with your distorted agenda

just to clarify and dispel your lies this is exactly what i did say:

say what you like tom...if it makes you feel a little bit bigger
i doubt you'd have the balls to say the stuff you type face to face...so keep hiding behind your keyboard

and this is why i said it:

Like bencooper said it's a statement that people can be much bigger dicks when they have the anonymity of a username on a forum, than they'd ever dare to be in a face-to-face conversation.

threat of violence....dont give yourself that much credit sunshine....you're not worth the energy

There's no point interacting with the troll, they've already decided to be objectionable in this thread so the best that we can do is ignore them and report it to the mods.

I didn't resort to ad-hom first guys 🙂

Did I break any rules in this thread? No. Although I think some of you might have done. 🙂

Toodles. I flounces now.

everyone - Member
There's no point interacting with the troll, they've already decided to be objectionable in this thread so the best that we can do is ignore them and report it to the mods.

Others' inconsistency is obvious innit.

When things are so obvious it becomes a bit foolish to think otherwise.

Why treat one different from another?

That is what I want to know ...

Right - it’s lunchtime. What do I do with myself???

Rachel

""Say that to my face" - implies the potential use of violence."

No it doesn't. It implies that you might be more 'courageous' from behind a keyboard, when saying something you know full well to be offensive, than face-to-face in a 'real world' situation. Very common. It's easier to insult someone from a position of anonymity.

Well done Gonzy. Don't know how you can keep it up, I really don't. Takes a massive amount of self-control (which is the point, surely?). As for Cougar's doubts about the health benefits; all the Muslims I know who fast say they definitely feel healthier by the end of Ramadan. Many do actually look healthier too. So maybe it really does have benefits that 'science' can't understand.

Toodles. I flounces now.

I bet you don't!

For me, this thread was not about religion, it was about gonzy and his experience. Some folks went on to ask for details, which required him to explain aspects of his religion but it was always about his fasting, not his beliefs. As such, i think it should have been excused the usual anti-religion anger or arguments.

But as a aside, and going back a few pages,

European imperialists set out to distant shores in the hope of obtaining new knowledge along with new territories.

This is just laughable! Empire was about learning? really? 😀

For Tom_W1987:

http://www.grammar-monster.com/easily_confused/elicit_illicit.htm

Now that Tom has apparently flounced back under his bridge, can we get back on topic rather than fuelling the fire please?

I'm more than happy for you to take this, ahem, "debate" to its own thread if you want to carry on.

Right - it’s lunchtime. What do I do with myself???

Rachel

how about some trolling on STW? 😆

but seriously how is it going? you're the only one who seems to have confirmed they're fasting.

I've nothing to add, except that I'm enjoying reading the accounts of all those fasting - I know there's a lot more to it than mere observance, so I wish you all success.

I'm sure that Eid will be very welcome!

How’s it going?

S L O W L Y . . .

😆

Oh - and I’m suddenly VERY aware of my caffeine addiction…

Rachel