[Closed] Raise in state pension age

Have you read Catch 22? Where as they take off on the 25th mission, they raise the number to 30? Then 35? Then 40?..... and so on

This is now the template for U.K. Pensions policy.

You're never going to retire.

Sorry

If only there was another DUP magic money tree.

Yeah, wake up call for all your kids.

Work until they die.

You on the other hand at least get time to dribble into your cornflakes before you pop off.

Bugger, ah well, I never suspected the last shift was going to be the last one and there's a lot of goverments and economic shifts to happen between now and then.

Thanks **** I'm 50 next week 🙂

Have you read Catch 22? Where as they take off on the 25th mission, they raise the number to 30? Then 35? Then 40?..... and so on

Can you dumb that down a touch for me?

But there wont be any jobs so whilst you cant retire you also cant work.

Universal state income and cheap housing is the only way it will work.

6 weeks on the right side of the line. For now.

Spend all your working life paying the mortgage off then retire and borrow against your home for equity release, which is mortgage that is paid off when you die, leaving your kids with nothing but your moldy collection of bicycles with out of date standards.

They (whichever government) made a mistake when they fixed it at 65. They should have specified it as X years younger than the average life expectancy. The advantage would be that the costs of pensions would be relatively static (allowing for inflation and population growth)

P-Jay - Member

Can you dumb that down a touch for me?

The number of missions required before you can be discharged increases as soon as you hit that number, thus never reaching it.

Well worth a read in my opinion.

Why, bear with me, hasn't the pensions age been reduced ?
Forget the NI and Tax revenue for a moment, what would be wrong with reducing the age by say 10 years ??

Well amount X goes into the pot and has to last Y years so if you increase Y then there's less money per year until you pop your clogs. If X/Y is to stay the same then more money has to be put into the pot whilst people are at work. The problem is that to finance the current pensions you are relying on the monies put into the pot in the past which isn't enough so raising the pension age is being used to balance the books.

They (whichever government) made a mistake when they fixed it at 65. They should have specified it as X years younger than the average life expectancy. The advantage would be that the costs of pensions would be relatively static (allowing for inflation and population growth)

Universal retirement is a perverse idea anyway. Why waste useful people just because they've been around a long time.

Why, bear with me, hasn't the pensions age been reduced ?
Forget the NI and Tax revenue for a moment, what would be wrong with reducing the age by say 10 years ??

Pensions are currently at least a third of the welfare bill.

Were you to reduce the age, you'd suddenly have a lot less taxpayers paying a lot more welfare.

Well amount X goes into the pot and has to last Y years so if you increase Y then there's less money per year until you pop your clogs. If X/Y is to stay the same then more money has to be put into the pot whilst people are at work. The problem is that to finance the current pensions you are relying on the monies put into the pot in the past which isn't enough so raising the pension age is being used to balance the books.

I think the problem is that a lot of it hasn't been put into a pot, but rather spent - relying on tax income from the current set of tax payers to pay for the current pensions. This is fine as long as there are sufficient tax payers, but when the baby boomers started retiring that was no longer the case.

Universal retirement is a perverse idea anyway. Why waste useful people just because they've been around a long time.

there's nothing to say you need to retire when you reach your state pension age.

Why, bear with me, hasn't the pensions age been reduced ?
Forget the NI and Tax revenue for a moment, what would be wrong with reducing the age by say 10 years ??

More money coming out, for longer. Obviously less going in but you said forget tax and ni.

One upon a time the U.K. had a private pension system that was as good as any in the world, until Gordon Broon had the brilliant idea of taxing private pension schemes to the tune of £5 billion/per year.
Oh and he sold off our gold reserves when gold was at its lowest level in god-knows how long.
That's what I call fiscal responsibility. 🙄

Universal retirement is a perverse idea anyway. Why waste useful people just because they've been around a long time.

But thanks to medical advancements we're all going to have many years of being alive but mostly crippled with ailments, so not that productive.

Although if they keep up with running the NHS into the ground, life expectancy in the UK may start going into reverse, which will help lower the pension bill.

One upon a time the U.K. had a private pension system that was as good as any in the world, until Gordon Broon had the brilliant idea of taxing private pension schemes to the tune of £5 billion/per year.

A drop in the ocean.

life expectancy in the UK may start going into reverse, which will help lower the pension bill.

It already has according to todays news.

Since most are in sedentary jobs these days there's no reason to stop work at 65 (or whatever) if you are able and willing to do it. The longer you leave your pension pot before drawing on it the bigger your pension will be.

In 1970 the UK life expectancy was 72 so the government only needed to fund 7 years of retirement - you'd be completely shot after a lifetime down the pit or whatever. With life expectancy now at 79 that's a doubling of the amount of money needed for pensions.

Re, re, reti, retir, retirm, retirm, retirme.... No sorry, I don't understand.

Why, bear with me, hasn't the pensions age been reduced ?
Forget the NI and Tax revenue for a moment, what would be wrong with reducing the age by say 10 years ??

The cost - 750k people are born in the UK every year, on average, it's growing of course but for the purposes of this.

If we reduce it by 10 years and assuming all 750k people live till retirement age and choose to retire an extra 7.5m people can retire

State pension is £119 per week, that's £10k a year, times that by 7.5m and it's an extra £77Bn a year in pensions paid out.

On the other hand the average UK Full time salary is £27k which comes with an annual tax and NI cost of £5,300 again times that by 7.5m and you get a loss of £39Bn

So to reduce it by 10 years would cost the UK £116Bn a year, it's currently 'only' £85bn a year.

Okay that's a lot of assumptions, but you get the idea.

We need a nice war or some disease to decrease the population a bit and reduce the future pension bill. 😐

We need a nice war or some disease to decrease the population a bit and reduce the future pension bill.

Be careful what you wish for

(I have been saying the same thing for 10 years or so though).

One upon a time the U.K. had a private pension system that was as good as any in the world, until Gordon Broon had the brilliant idea of taxing private pension schemes to the tune of £5 billion/per year.

No, the previous Thatcher government sounded the death knell for company schemes when it introduced tax on surpluses. The result was that companies took contributions holidays and had absolutely no protection against increased life expectancy and bad markets, so they closed their schemes.

Oh and he sold off our gold reserves when gold was at its lowest level in god-knows how long.

Pretty soon the concept of retirement, as enjoyed by the boomers (winter hols in Tenerife, weekends in the lakes, golf, and changing your car every couple of years), will be viewed as a quaint, unaffordable anomaly.

Future generations will stare in disbelief into how we all got hoodwinked into that particular pyramid scheme. I know I do

You need to wise up people. We're simply not going to retire. Well... unless you fancy living in abject poverty. I'm in my 40's and faced up to this reality quite some time back

Luckily, once they've privatised the NHS, and life expectancy goes into reverse, thats not an issue you'll have to worry your pretty little head over

Chin up! 😀

One upon a time the U.K. had a private pension system that was as good as any in the world, until Gordon Broon had the brilliant idea of taxing private pension schemes to the tune of £5 billion/per year.
Oh and he sold off our gold reserves when gold was at its lowest level in god-knows how long.
That's what I call fiscal responsibility.

sigh

Someone could really do with check what the facts actually are. Whilst all that is true it is rather out of context as it ignores the fact that previous Tory chancellors made similar moves on pension pots. Then there were the pension contribution holidays that were allowed under I believe Tory governments. This of course is as nothing to the proposals that have been mooted regarding either reducing, or worse eliminating, the tax relief of pension contributions.

As for the whole "gold" thing, this was a policy that wasn't unique to the UK (gold is useless asset anyway) and if you feel like using hindsight to cherry pick things how about the auction of the mobile phone 3G licences that raised a staggering amount of money for the UK.

It already has according to todays news.

I thought it had just stalled improving...

I reckon its a racing certainty that any day now the private pensions industry is going to be exposed as a scam that is going to make the Sub-prime banking, PPI mis-selling business look like a minor accountancy error

Is the idea of this that us young whippersnappers die before reaching state pension age? Remember, if we're all at work there's going to be no one to visit you in your care homes.

Good luck... 🙂

I do wonder sometimes if binners' approach is right. My mum n dad were both looking forward to their retirement and had been paying into pensions all their working lives. Unfortunately they both died of Cancer before retirement so were never able to enjoy it. I'm chucking 6% of my gross into my pot right now and my employer matches that. I could stop that contribution and enjoy that little bit of extra money, but what then if I do end up living and have a rubbish pension as a result. I don't much fancy being old [i]and[/i] poor!

You need to wise up people. We're simply not going to retire. Well... unless you fancy living in abject poverty. I'm in my 40's and faced up to this reality quite some time back

I am, in 5 years time, wife retired last month. Happy days.

P-Jay - Member

Can you dumb that down a touch for me?

The number of missions required before you can be discharged increases as soon as you hit that number, thus never reaching it.

Well worth a read in my opinion.

There you go. You may be facing up to reality that you'll spend your twilight years sloshing about in your own piss in some desolate warehouse for old giffers, but you've had a recommendation for a fantastic book! Its my personal favouritest ever! And most of its comments on capitalism, warfare, and pretty much everything else are just now truisms.

My pensions/missions before rotation analogy will definitely be the case

jekkyl - Member

Spend all your working life paying the mortgage off then retire and borrow against your home for equity release, which is mortgage that is paid off when you die, leaving your kids with nothing but your moldy collection of bicycles with out of date standards.

I’m told ‘downsizing’ doesn’t help anymore either, the market for retirement flats and bungalows is so oversubscribed now you’re getting half the room for the same money – a mate’s parents just sold a 4 bed in a lovely area and bought a flat by the sea – they kept £10k in cash from the deal.

I've noticed an explosion in adverts for equity release recently and apparently "you still get something to pass on to your loved ones" 7/10ths of **** all I suspect.

I saw this advert with this lovely old couple who looked like that already had a comfortable life no doubt selling off half their home or more on a terrible deal (because who cares) to fund a cruise or two - it felt like the final insult (after Brexit) from the boomers. We’ve got a housing market so broken that many experts believe the only thing that can fix it is when all the boomers die and pass it to multiple off-spring and even that seems less likely now.

I, for one, is praying for a flu epidemic ha ha.

Universal retirement is a perverse idea anyway. Why waste useful people just because they've been around a long time.

Good job it doesn't work like that then.

Yeah, wake up call for all your kids.

Work until they die.

Or they will vote for party that looks after people and will change it to 65 again.

I'll have enough tucked away by the time I'm 50 to give me atleast £1k a month which is more than enough for me to live a good life (no wife or kids). They can keep their shitty state pension, I'd rather kill myself than work to my 70's.

Or they will vote for party that looks after people and will change it to 65 again.

Given we're living longer (or were) and the demographics are changing in Western Europe (less young, more old), the status quo is getting more and more expensive.

If we insist on not letting in immigrants (who both breed and boost the economy), the demographics / economics will get steadily worse.

So, something will have to give at some point.

Arse biscuits. That just caught me and the Mrs then.

Not very clear from the Beeb exactly what that means though.....'be phased in between 2037 and 2039'. What does that mean? That they have not sorted the exact date of the change or some people will be switched and some people not? Not very helpful.

I plugged my details into the gov.uk link on the BBC page and it has me getting it on my 67th birthday still. No idea if that's been updated.

Something I really must check - when the state pension age changed did they also change the age at which you could draw your lump sum to buy an annuity (or whatever else you can do with it) from a private or workplace pension without penalty. I guess it might depend on the specific pension.

In years to come people will look back and laugh at the ability to retire at 65 (and 60 for women, which seems even more daft now)

Drac - Moderator

Or they will vote for party that looks after people and will change it to 65 again.

I do hope so, but I doubt it. I fear that now this is in, it'll stay in forever. Such as the political system for funding anything is less of a balance and more of political points scoring.

The reason I posted about a reduction in retirement age is a simple one. With more Oldies not working, potential for Childcare goes up (I did say Potential for a reason) thereby saving Family cost pressures. Also those that have chosen a Manual Job over the years are pretty much worn out by retirement (huge assumption) I know about the Funding side, I'm quite aware of that.

So, what will happen about those that release Pensions before maturity? We know thats already happening and the need to buy an Annuity is doomed, so are Mums n Dads really helping out siblings or buying Merc 4x4's and off on a River Cruise?

We need a nice war or some disease to decrease the population a bit and reduce the future pension bill.

P-Jay's flu pandemic has more chance of succeeding.

Another years work for me, now 23 years to go.

I'm ****ed off with this county and the ****ing conservatives. I'm now focusing on plan to get the family out of here to somewhere less miserable looking going forward when the time is right.

That's be perverse, as then there would be less paying into 'the pot', (there is no pot, it just comes straight out of taxation) to fund all the coffin dodgers who are still taking out.
P-Jay's flu pandemic has more chance of succeeding.

So hypothetically if you had a chance of retiring on a full pension at 60 but to get that deal you had to sign up to euthanasia at 80 if you were still around would you take it? Clear the dead wood so to speak for a few more years released from the drudge of work whilst still fit and well enough to do something good with the time. Got to confess I might go for it.

Another years work for me, now 23 years to go.

Theoretically, I avoided it by being born two weeks too late. In reality, I suspect binners is right: it will keep going up for all of us. I'll keep paying off the mortgage and paying into my company scheme, in the hope that I can retire early and manage without a state pension for a few years.

I want the choice to a dignified death. I'm all for voluntary euthanasia, we as humans should accept once quality of life is diminished, we should have the choice to die.

No surprises here - well flagged years in advance

Public sector pensions are essentially an unsustainable Ponzi scheme

=> The state pension is unfit for purpose

People have been given the wrong advice for too long, Rely on the state and you are screwed in old age.

If only there was another DUP magic money tree.

£1bn vs £74bn

We don't save enough / pay enough National Insurance for the pensions it seems we want. Either pay more or get less. As teamhurtmore says.

@Kryton they have much more generous pensions in France which are related to your income during your working life, their taxes are much much higher.

My mother in law has been whinging about the Tories... yet she voted for them.

I just don't get it.

Apparently the plan is to bring it inline with Sudan model:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retirement_age

I want the choice to a dignified death. I'm all for voluntary euthanasia, we as humans should accept once quality of life is diminished, we should have the choice to die.

I'm like some kind of visionary.... I started planning for this eventuality in my teens. ramped it up in my twenties and thirties, and reached a stage of permanent kebab-laden shiraz-pickledness in my 40's.

[img] [/img]

pissing myself in some grim subsistence level hell of a 'retirement' isn't an option my poor abused body is ever likely to deliver. On reflection.... I win! 😀

Actually... I'll probably be that genetic freak who smoked 40 woodbines a day, and necked 12 pints on the way back from work every evening, yet lived to 107. Bah! 😥

My mother in law has been whinging about the Tories... yet she voted for them.

You just wait till the full impact of Brexit hits home.

The gilded generation who voted for it will be wailing from their triple-locked, index-linked, inflation+ ivory towers like low flying Hercules

Glad you lot all listened properly to what's been said today. Nothing has changed, the Tories have expressed an aspiration to change the retirement age but don't plan to do it until 2023 when the next pension age review is due. To do it today requires a change in the law and if they tried to push that through today they'd get their backsides handed to them on a plate.

Meanwhile back in the real world Binners is probably right, pension ages will continue to go up as pension costs increase and the welfare pot is squeezed by increasing health and social care costs which will also increase with life expectancy and improvements in medicine. Bear in mind despite the current crisis in social care for the elderly only around 20% of those needing care get it paid for by the state. The rest pay themselves, rely on friends and family for support or suffer with no support. If we have a crisis now think what it will be like when the state needs to pick 40% of the costs. Our welfare expectations (and expectations around inheritance) for the future are deluded.

This needs a radical solution. I propose retiring in your thirties. Seems like the best decade of life for fitness versus experience. Have ten to fifteen years of relaxing and enjoying life. Once you hit forty five it's back to work until you die on the job.

You don't have to do the same job at 65 as you would at 45.
You probably will not have the same responsibilitys and requirements at 65 as you do at 45.

I think there should be a partial pension age at which you can claim a % of your pension 0-100%. This can allow people to go part time. But if they wish to defer the pension there is a increase in pension a
When you do claim. This allow for flexibility of people life's and situation

Soylent green people, anyone had a Holland's pie lately?

According to the BBC calculations I should be saving £404/month for my pension. Which would be fine if I don't want to say, eat or in fact do anything other than pay my bills and mortgage...

@binners - That's the problem there are going to be people as there are now who need constant medical care and cannot work even if they wanted to. Some people are in a really bad state before the current retirement age never mind any older.

The governments plan (doesn't seem to matter who's in power) is to up the pension age in perpetuity. Think it was every ten years or so, can't remember exactly. It was a published plan to be instigated across Europe from what I remember, effectively designing state pensions out within a few generations. Stealth privatise the NHS piece by piece, cut all social security payments, in combination with dwindling incomes for the majority and old age is going to get really ugly for those (most of us) without considerable means or who were fortunate enough to benefit from investments, which will seem like decadent luxuries in the not too distant future.

But heyhoo as long as we get fast braodband, social media, free streaming telly, Audis, Apple products, oh and get pot holes, supermarket parent & child parking spaces, animal rights on a par with humans for the cute furry ones sorted then non of this shit matters, everyone else can get ta **** like 😉

Great, when will the MPs be voting on getting rid of their archaic gold plated pension scheme then?

We are not all in this together.

Nothing has changed, the Tories have expressed an aspiration to change the retirement age but don't plan to do it until 2023

So where does the part that says it's moved 7 years forward 2037 come from then? Why are you saying it's even earlier than that?

Binners
Future generations will stare in disbelief into how we all got hoodwinked into that particular pyramid scheme. I know I do.

Completely agree. It's just one giant Ponzi scheme.

The state pension age is not when you have to retire, you can do so before if you wish. Given the level of the state pension most people are earning much more money so at the very least they can increase savings in later years matching their lifestyle they will have if they have to rely 100% on the state pension.

As for suggestion above about variable wtihdrawl a commentator on Sky made the same suggestion, its an interesting one and matches what you can do with private pensions. Taking a smaller amount sooner would make sense for many

I think the SNP have a point that with the life expectancy in Scotland being lower perhaps they shoukd have a higher level of pension / earlier retirement but that only works if their system is fully funded which its not as rUK subsidises them.

Maybe it could be linked to your fried food and buckfast consumption?

Drac thats not what i meant. What they said on PM on radio 4 this evening was that to change the pension age required legislation and given the Tories lack of a majority they won't get it through now. Apparently there is a pensions review scheduled for 2023 which is when they said they are planning to actually enact what has been announced today into law. So bottom line is it's highly unlikely Maybot or even the conservatives or probably Corbyn will be in power then so theres lots of time for this to change (or possibly get worse when life expectancy is reviewed again after the 2021 census).

Edit: I can't see any mention of it on the BBC news website.

whitestone - Member

They (whichever government) made a mistake when they fixed it at 65. They should have specified it as X years younger than the average life expectancy. The advantage would be that the costs of pensions would be relatively static (allowing for inflation and population growth)

Would work in some professions but not others. I am already beginning to find my job physically and emotionally hard to do as a relativly fit 56 yr old. there is no way on earth I would be able to do this for another 12 years. simply not possible

Do you really want a 68 yr old policeman? Fire officer? Paramedic?

Do different job? That was easy.

How's about they just make it, work yer 35 qualifying years then ye can collect it, longer you leave it higher pension you get, and tax people accordingly to fund it..

Would work in some professions but not others. I am already beginning to find my job physically and emotionally hard to do as a relativly fit 56 yr old. there is no way on earth I would be able to do this for another 12 years. simply not possible

This only applies to the State pension. Claiming the occupational pension is different and can be claimed at a much earlier age, albeit with reduced payments.

5thElefant - Member

Do different job? That was easy.

Really - what do you think I should / could retrain as as a 60 yr old with a bad back and feet and no skills outside my profession that I will no longer be physically ans mentally able to do.

gonfishing - you realise that the tory attacks on our occupational pensions make this no longer possible - I am luck in that I will be able to take my small occupational pension at 60 - but people entering the profession after me will not - the only way to get your NHS pension before 65 in a few yers time will be to be retired as medically unfit. vastly reduced occupational pension and no state pension. So reliant on benefits

Really - what do you think I should / could retrain as as a 60 yr old with a bad back and feet and no skills outside my profession that I will no longer be physically ans mentally able to do.

I'm sure most people are more than capable of being useful in some capacity well into their old age. I certainly hope to be.

5th - I have very specialised skills and knowledge. What on earth do you think I could get a job as? given the almost impossibility of current 60 somethings even those with marketable skills have now in finding employment

Your grasp on reality is somewhat tenuous

Your lack of self confidence is disturbing.

Anyway, as a I said, if someone is unemployable put them on benefits. Universal pension is just weird. Why assume everyone useless at 68 when it's just a minority that are?

As usual on any pensions thread there are people moaning about how their generation has been screwed over by the baby boomers generation as if we should somehow individually feel guilty. The perception seems to be that the boomers took some sort of collective decision to "cheat" the generation coming after.

Well I'm sorry to have to knock that huge chip off your shoulders, but it didn't happen that way. Firstly, we didn't all have a massive meeting where we decided to be (as you see it) selfish. It's not physically possible.

"But it's in the way you voted" I hear you whinge. Again sorry, but we voted for a mix of right wing and left wing governments, so more or less balanced out. And I can assure you that pensions provision was very rarely ever mentioned. The vast bulk of us (myself included) gave it very little thought whatsoever when choosing how to cast our vote. We knew we'd have to contribute towards our own pensions as the state pension wouldn't be enough, and that's the same for you guys now. However as an election issue it was way, way down the list. Most folk voted (as they still do) for what was best for them, their family and their country. No-one was voting to see their children or grandchildren (i.e. you lot) hard done by in any way.

Also, life expectancy is rising faster that the state pension age, so your generation will on average have longer to enjoy retirement. How you fund that retirement is exactly the same problem our generation faced. There's no easy answer, and yes it's a balance between new bike today and better new bikes in a few decades, but trust me, we've all been there.

Every generation thinks it is hard done by. That's just the way life is I'm afraid.

What on earth do you think I could get a job as?

You could do any number of un-skilled jobs. But be better at them than some gormless youngster due to greater experience and confidence.

Perhaps some kind of quota system for oldies and youngies for companies? Only slightly serious.. but the state could step in somehow and encourage suitable employment for older people rather than simply pay for them..?

You for example TJ could be doing part time work training people in your special skills, researching or something - or maybe some kind of community work?

I dont have an issue with an increase in pension age in line with life expectancy.

What I dont agree with is this 'save more' rhetoric by the already comfortable.

Why not tax companies sufficiently to properly provide for those people when they can no longer work?
The shareholder would have to take a marginal hit but they are largely the pension funds.

If his whole freakin merry go round isnt mutually beneficial whats the point in it all?

I'm sure most people are more than capable of being useful in some capacity well into their old age. I certainly hope to be.

You're falling into the trap of "Well I'm capable and confident, so I see no reason why everyone else shouldn't also be."

If we are to keep people in suitable worthwhile work as I said, it needs to be managed and planned, we cannot leave it to market forces.

Oh and as per my first post AI is about to decimate many industries as mass employers so your prospect of get a job over 60 will be next to zero.

Someone somehow is going to have to pay for a lot of folk to do not a lot.

Higher tax or a society of the elite and the plebs are the only options.

It's hard enough changing career direction in your thirties. But we're expecting businesses to employ 60yr olds too knackered for their old jobs?

Really?

this thread is deppressing as it is.
here is my plan. try to steal enough cash and escape to sunny places.

I know it's a laughable as if. Anyone in the real world knows it won't happen on mass.

These ****s that talk about people as though we are chattels, lucky to be allowed to exist in the first place and should be bloody grateful, get ****ed.