[Closed] Racist Muamba Tweets

I spot a Goodwins Law slipping under the radar there.

To be honest, just because the person has a nasty viewpoint, I don't see why essentially, namecalling someone who won't see or care about it, is worth 56 days in prison, when lowlife who steal my cars/bikes don't even get a trivial investigation, even when theres plenty of evidence.

When did a "thought crime" become more important than a physical crime? Someone steals my car, I can't get to work. Someone calls me names, I can walk away.

Given that to an extent, rascism is hardwired into us, and it's only civilisation and education that leads us to overcome basic beliefs, why has "race/religion hate crime" become so topically important just now, when we still can't get basic rights and wrongs addressed on an everyday level?

Rascism is nasty, but is it really "imprisonable?! Should non violent people who simply believe something different to what we would like, really be sent to jail, at the expense of investigating genuine "criminals who harm?"

We already have a thread about a car incident, implying ethnic origin is significant, and it is true that certain cultures are grossly over represented in this sort of crime. So at what point does saying this become "rascist" and at what point are we all reporting that poster to the police?

Rascism is such a grey area (it's not black and white, honestly), I am very uneasy in seeing courts intrude into "social" areas of life, when they should be mroe concerned over rather more significant criminal issues.

Well said.

I was only half aware of this till I saw the trial results today.

Sure, we should have a zero tolerance policy towards racially motivated hate crimes. But I can't help but think that the sentencing is a little disparate to the crime in this case.

As, uh, unspellable68 above says, people who premeditatedly commit crimes with long-reaching consequences routinely get a slap on the wrist and called a naughty boy, now we've suddenly got someone sent down for essentially "calling someone names and being rather unpleasant." If we jailed everyone who called people names, there'd be a measurable attendance drop in the terraces.

And yeah, I know it's about racism, and I agree that it's unacceptable behaviour. But when this idiot spouts off about someone being dead and being black, and it's the 'black' bit that gets him locked up, I can't help but wonder whether we've got our priorities straight.

To be honest, just because the person has a nasty viewpoint, I don't see why essentially, namecalling someone who won't see or care about it, is worth 56 days in prison,

he did more than name call and how on earth do you know whether he will or will not see it or care about it? You may as well defend trolling dead folk remeberance sites as that is ok as they wont see it or care.

when lowlife who steal my cars/bikes don't even get a trivial investigation, even when theres plenty of evidence.

Important issue but it is not one or the other is it.

When did a "thought crime" become more important than a physical crime?

I can think what i want but i am typing this on the internet where people can read it so it is no longer a thought but an action. if i was to call for you to murder someone then I would be in trouble but if I just think it I am fine.

Someone steals my car, I can't get to work. Someone calls me names, I can walk away.

So it is worse to have you car stolen than being daily abused for being gay or black ? Have you got some analysis of victim reactions to back this up or are you just saying what you think?

Given that to an extent, rascism is hardwired into us,

no it is not

and it's only civilisation and education that leads us to overcome basic beliefs

not sure what you mean

, why has "race/religion hate crime" become so topically important just now, when we still can't get basic rights and wrongs addressed on an everyday level?

is race /religion hatred not an example of our failure to get basic rights and wrong addressed? why should we turn a blind eye to this

Rascism is nasty, but is it really "imprisonable?!

It is and he has just been imprisoned for it apparently.

Should non violent people who simply believe something different to what we would like, really be sent to jail, at the expense of investigating genuine "criminals who harm?"

again it is not an either or is it. This is just emotive tosh IMHO [ though i support your right to write it 😉 ] We could do both couldn't we

Rascism is such a grey area (it's not black and white, honestly), I am very uneasy in seeing courts intrude into "social" areas of life, when they should be mroe concerned over rather more significant criminal issues.

I am not sure in what sense being abusive to people is a social issue tbh. Why not get drunk wander the streets and hurl abuse at people and let me know what happens when the police turn up

Just because he did his on the internet i dont see why we should ignore it.

Why not get drunk wander the streets and hurl abuse at people and let me know what happens when the police turn up

Normally you'd get told to go home and sleep it off, if the police 'reality TV' shows are anything to go by.

aye but they dont film in east lancs do they 😉

Heh.

TBH, a lot of them do. It's a prime source of scrotes.

Guy sounds like he's childish moron to me, prison is massively OTT.

I'm guessing the seriousness of the punishment is due to
- 1. Its related to football, which is trying hard to rid itself or racism
- 2. Its on twitter, which for some reason means everythings taken a lot more seriously than on Youtube, sickipedia or any of the hundreds of other sites where similar stuff is said (please note, i'm not trying to justify it as being "okay because everyone does it" by saying this, just wondering why twitter is being taken so seriously

just wondering why twitter is being taken so seriously

Probably because of a much ignored aspect of criminal law. Someone has to make a complaint and follow it through. By all accounts Police forces UK wide received complaints and therefore were able to do something about it.

Regarding not locking anyone else up. Am I the only person who is aware that the UK's prisons are full to bursting? Not really supporting the suggestion that no one else ever gets locked up is it?

Am I the only person who is aware that the UK's prisons are full to bursting?

No, but apparently you're the only one who thinks the implication is that more people should be imprisoned for opinion crime.

you're the only one

Clearly not.... to be fair

- 1. Its related to football, which is trying hard to rid itself or racism

if fifa/whoever managed to sway the sentencing I'd be worried.

Someone has to make a complaint and follow it through

also why RLJers and anti social behaviour [s]is treated more seriously[/s] have more resources devoted to them than other stuff like dangerous driving. If enough of the public complain about it it it gets more police attention even if there are more deserving cases. It's public perception (and don't forget the profile of the limited section of public who do correspond with the police about these things) of what is dangerous rather than actual statistically significant dangers.

Should be treated seriously, 56days does sound harsh when compared to other wrist slapping already mentioned. Dunno.

Perhaps there should be a half-way step between nothing or a criminal conviction - a "don't be a knob" slap on the wrist.

I reckon there would have been about 6 million jews, 2 million Poles, & 250,000 gypsies who would have warmly welcomed a similar lack of imagination in the Weimar republic, and that is the point. If we've learnt nothing else from the 20th Century surely to God zero tolerance of racism has to be on the list??

Oh do grow up. If you think that spiteful name-calling by an individual is remotely comparable to state-sponsored genocide then you need to go and find some perspective.

Perhaps there should be a half-way step between nothing or a criminal conviction - a "don't be a knob" slap on the wrist.

I think many people would view a conviction and community service as a more appropriate punishment than prison. It does seem that this, and the riots last summer, are examples of harsher punishments being handed out due to their media profile.

The perception about people getting a slap on the wrist for serious crime is massively distorted by the odd lenient case that gets reported in a sensationalist way by the tabloids.

Still think this is a bit harsh though, the punishment of everyone knowing what a cock he is is fairly good tbh.

I think prison is massively OTT, maybe just community service for being an idiot. You can't defeat / eradicate racism by locking people up, you'd have half the country behind bars...

Haven't read any of the details of his tweets or his conviction

Did he get done for inciting racial hatred or for grossly offensive communications (or whatever the wording is) ?

If he was [u]inciting[/u] hatred then fair enough, jail the tit. Being grossly offensive on the internet, meh, I'm sure an internet equivalent of being pilloried could be applied instead

I think there's some sort of initiative to "kick racism out of football". The sentence probably has a lot to do with that.

I have to wonder if there was also a reaction to the whole 'pray for muamba' mild hysteria.

Imprisonment is OTT but punishment in terms of cleaning or polishing public toilets is much better. Bear in mind "we" still have to pay for his meals and lodging while being detained for 56 days.

This case has plenty of pc media spin around no news put it this way. No news because there are other people who also suffer from heart attacks but never a news or important because they are just viewed as another medical case.

grum - Member

I have to wonder if there was also a reaction to the whole 'pray for muamba' mild hysteria.

Yes, plenty ... why not they pray for all those in the hospital with serious medical condition every match.

Oh do grow up. If you think that spiteful name-calling by an individual is remotely comparable to state-sponsored genocide then you need to go and find some perspective.

I presume you think that AH and his goose stepping chums started at genocide? The reality is that it was a slow insidious process over years that built up to that outcome, and thats the point both of this sentence and what I said. Its making the point loud and clear that racism is unacceptable and won't be tolerated. This twunt might be unfortunate, he might not I don't know the full details, but its sent the right message in the right way and for that reason I'm 100% in favour of it.

I have to wonder if there was also a reaction to the whole 'pray for muamba' mild hysteria.

Which slightly backfired on him if you read the comments by the bench. Apparently the whole nation was praying for Muamba, which is partly why his words deserved such a long jailtime.

56 days harsh. +1 for 'don't be a knob' sentencing. Isn't that what the stocks were for?

I presume you think that AH and his goose stepping chums started at genocide? The reality is that it was a slow insidious process over years that built up to that outcome, and thats the point both of this sentence and what I said. Its making the point loud and clear that racism is unacceptable and won't be tolerated. This twunt might be unfortunate, he might not I don't know the full details, but its sent the right message in the right way and for that reason I'm 100% in favour of it.

Yes, because one idiot on the internet is exactly the same as an ideology that was racist from the beginning.

Where's the face/ palm smiley?

It is a bit odd. Attempting to kill someone with a bus gets you 17 months, abhorrent twitter messages get you two. One or both of those is not in proportion. But on the other hand, hopefully this is a clear message that hateful crap like that won't be tolerated any more.

Yes, because one idiot on the internet is exactly the same as an ideology that was racist from the beginning.

Probably worse to be fair. I reckon Jo Goebbels would have loved to have had that sort of instant access to the entire world.

.......now where did I put that missing the point you wally smiley?

Probably worse to be fair. I reckon Jo Goebbels would have loved to have had that sort of instant access to the entire world.

.......now where did I put that missing the point you wally smiley?

If you really can't see that making a tit of oneself is not remotely comparable to the intentions of the nazis, then you are too dim to be worth talking to.

If you really can't see that making a tit of oneself is not remotely comparable to the intentions of the nazis, then you are too dim to be worth talking to.

....and if you weren't so self obsessed you would have spotted the fact that I mentioned the Weimar republic in my original post on the subject of genocide, i.e. pre dating the Nazis, and the point you are repeatedly missing is that it is necessary to stop this sort of mullarkey before it gets to the Nazi stage. i.e. had AH or his cronies been repeatedly jailed for espousing their racist bile, then in all probability they would never have risen to lead Nazi Germany. That is why we have the law, thats why racism is treated as it is, and thats why I am fully in agreement with the sentence.

......reaches for the "None so blind as those who will not see Smiley"

i.e. had AH or his cronies been repeatedly jailed for espousing their racist bile,

And there, in a nutshell, is why your example is in the big book of Things That Are Not Remotely Comparable (author: Berm Bandit).

Not that I expect you to see why.

Gives moral support to what BB is saying, frowns at ransos who really is missing the point

Gives moral support to what BB is saying, frowns at ransos who really is missing the point

No, I disagree with the point.

Ah, I see so you think that had Adolf been allowed to spout racist hatred as his message with impunity he wouldn't have risen to power and been responsible for the deaths of millions??

Reaches For the "Very Big and Quite Heavy Book of Extremely Obvious Flaws in Ransos Rationale"

Ah, I see

No, you don't see. Would you like to try again?

Nope not really, wouldn't mind you trying to explain precisely what your point is minus the snottyness though.

Nope not really, wouldn't mind you trying to explain precisely what your point is minus the snottyness though.

I'm not making a point, I'm disagreeing with yours. You, in response, seem keen to ascribe opinions to me that I do not hold, whilst demonstrating a startling absence of any ability to comprehend what was written.

I'll take that as a no then....

OK I'm typing this very slowly to help you understand. This is hypothetical, so don't take it too literally.

Do you think Adolf was racist when he was born? Yes/No

If the answer to that is YES , I give up, but if not we then get to the point of when did he become racist and why? Suddenly or a gradual and insidious process?

If you think it was a sudden light bulb moment then I give up, if however you think it was a slow insidious thing perhaps from his peers or his parents then we have the beginnings of an understanding.

If that is what you think, then the idea of preventing casual racism by legal process starts to tie up with what I am suggesting.

Now I genuinely hope you've managed to keep up with that, but if not well frankly theres no hope.

I'll take that as a no then....

So you can understand what was written! Do you think you might try it more often?

BB wins.

BB wins.

By virtue of editing his post after I'd responded? If you think so.

OK I'm typing this very slowly to help you understand. This is hypothetical, so don't take it too literally.

Do you think Adolf was racist when he was born? Yes/No

If the answer to that is YES , I give up, but if not we then get to the point of when did he become racist and why? Suddenly or a gradual and insidious process?

If you think it was a sudden light bulb moment then I give up, if however you think it was a slow insidious thing perhaps from his peers or his parents then we have the beginnings of an understanding.

If that is what you think, then the idea of preventing casual racism by legal process starts to tie up with what I am suggesting.

Now I genuinely hope you've managed to keep up with that, but if not well frankly theres no hope.

Speaking of light bulbs, I invite you to re-read my posts on this thread and consider if I ever suggested that it wasn't appropriate to prosecute Tracey. If you're capable of considered reading, rather than knee-jerk over-reactions...

Why don't they just have a racist football league for all the racists to enjoy together. Is that discriminatory?

Also I though Muamba's first words on waking up would be "Did we win?" so I wasn't far off.