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[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-17434587 ]There are days when it pains me to be a member of the human race![/url]
What did he actually say?
apart from being a jeb end i couldnt see anything that was specifically aimed at the footballer 😕
who needs a lynch mob when you can tweet for the police on mass.
I'm not racist and some of my friends are from different cultural backgrounds
Not quite "some of my best friends are black, but.....". Not a million miles off though
his first tweet was 'LOL Muambas going to die' or something similiar, then when challenged he unleashed some pretty vile racist stuff at various people. I saw collymores retweet on Saturday, and watched his account for a bit, he deserves to spend a bit of time inside for some of the stuff he was saying
He does indeed for the spiteful and unnecessary remarks.
And then we can clean up STW:
Watching children, Peado...Burn the witch.
And least one other distasteful comment seems to have been removed by the mods.
Not sure what he siad, but given the fact that he has been warned that he might receive a custodial sentence I'm guessing it was pretty shameful.
I saw collymores retweet on Saturday,
I don't do twitter so may be a mile off
But did someone else re-broadcast the remarks? - if so isn't this the same as broadcasting them in the first place?
“I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.” Evelyn Beatrice Hall, written under the pseudonym S. G. Tallentyre.
I understand he allegedly laughed at the fact the Muamba might be dead, which is a despicable thing to do under almost all circumstances, but I feel ashamed that this might end in prison.
thats like that chelsea footballer trying to get away with
"actually i didnt call you a b* c, you must have misheard me old chap"
jota, collymore retweeted the racist comments aimed at himself. he often does it to highlight the abuse he receives.
TBH from what I understand he laughed at the fact the Muamba might be dead, which is a despicable thing to do under almost all circumstances, but I feel ashamed that this might end in prison.
He'll be going to prison for the racism I imagine.
There's another lad in court at the minute due to racist abuse he was giving Collymore on Twitter, you wonder what goes through people's heads sometimes.
Apart from the fact he was spouting mindless abuse he hadn't even bothered to cover his tracks internet-wise, so he was easily found and charged. I find it surprising that people still seem to think that you can say anything you like 'because it's the internet' without any fear of reproach when it's been proven time and again this isn't the case.
He'll be going to prison for the racism I imagine.
So does that mean it's okay to laugh at people dying but only if they are not black?
Legally I believe it would be ok to laugh at people (irrespective of their colour) dying so long as it wasn't done in a discriminatory way. Distasteful, depressing and mean-spirited, but not illegal.
Same as people will no doubt be doing on the day Maggie dies...
So does that mean it's okay to laugh at people dying but only if they are not black?
Not ok to laugh at anyone dying, although I don't think its illegal.
I think his original tweet sets him in a bad light but its the following racial tweets that will have him go down if he does.
[url= 
]He seems like a charmer (caution: Strong language and general unpleasantness)[/url]
Apparently he also broke out the c word that rhymes with 'boon'. He got progressively more offensive as people reprimanded him, then realised that he was possibly in a bit of trouble and claimed he'd been hacked, then deleted his account. Then got arrested, then admitted everything and claimed that he was drunk.
There was one site that dragged up his old Bebo account, that said that he hated 'Black Music' and was 'scared of illegal immigrants'.
Way to ruin your life, kid!
I don't follow football. I'm not overly sad that some bloke I never heard of before today has had a heart attack. It all smacks of the "Princess Diana" syndrome to me.
What I DO object to, is being commanded by various numpties to "pray" for the guy and being told by The Sun that "god is in control", apparently...
Presumably, that being the case, that would be the same god that gave him the heart attack in the first place?
Feh. 👿
I agree with you woppit, why the mass outpouring of grief for someone I'd never heard of and never likely to meet i've no idea.
What gets on my wick is that its "so shocking" for someone so young to have this happen according to the press. Yes it is, but would it have made the news if he didn't kick a bag of air about the playing fields?
A good friend of mine's 7 year old kid had a stroke 2 days before christmas, didn't see any mention of that in the Sun.
Celebrity worshipping hypocrisy.
When someone apparently young and healthy drops on a football pitch, is seen fighting for his life in front of crowd of 40 thousand in the ground and several million on television, I don't think its a surprise that it gets a fair amount of press coverage and captures the public's attention.
But I have to agree that I am surprised at the religious overtures from many of the public statements.
That's because over 50 percent of Briton still believe in some form of flying spaghetti monster in the sky.
They don't trust doctors, scientists or experts and increasingly give weight to faith based healing such as god or homeopathy. Doctors don't save people...god intervenes, as if god just takes peoples lives and then decides not to when enough people on earth have objected.
It scares me.
MSP - Member:But I have to agree that I am surprised at the religious overtures from many of the public statements.
Yes it is genuinely interesting when/how peoples' attitudes change in the face of their own mortality.
That's because over 50 percent of Briton still believe in some form of flying spaghetti monster in the sky.It scares me.
the rest beleive in fairies
When someone apparently young and healthy drops on a football pitch, is seen fighting for his life in front of crowd of 40 thousand in the ground and several million on television, I don't think its a surprise that it gets a fair amount of press coverage and captures the public's attention.
Whereas when we see loads of other black people starving to death, dying from preventable disease or being blown to bits in airstrikes; or old people freezing to death in one of the most developed countries in the 21st century, it barely gets a mention on the news and hardly anyone gives a flying ****.
It just seems a bit odd to me.
50%, this saddens me. I bet there are far more "closet atheists" about. I too have had a complete **** full of people telling me to pray for Muamba, when I explain my situation I've been called tasteless etc. I forget being Christian = being moral.
Anyway there are some right cretins about, sadly a lot of them do dwell from the Rhondda Valleys.
The press were reporting the words of his fiancee with regards to the religious statements.
Not very pleasant to use that to kickstart another debate about religion is it?
Same with the anti football sentiments.
As to the attitude that 'I didn't know him so I don't care', well empathy is not a sign of weakness.
Rather the opposite, I'd say.
What have the Rhondda valleys got to do with it?
People may not know him personally, but any human being with a caring nature will hope that another fellow Human being doesnt suffer or pass away.
I don't know some patients on a personal level, but i can't help but feel sadness if one passes away.
Same goes for Muamba, maybe more so as he is part of the club i have supported as a boy.
As to the attitude that 'I didn't know him so I don't care', well empathy is not a sign of weakness.
Rather the opposite, I'd say.
I don't think not connecting on an emotional level with a story being reported in the media shows a lack of empathy. In fact normally I tire of the faux grief displayed on the forum every time a celebrity dies.
For some reason this incident has touched me, I am not really sure why, I think it was genuine fear and emotion displayed on the faces of all those on the pitch which really struck home.
The only other "celebrity" death I can recall being affected by was the German goalkeeper who committed suicide following the death of his disabled daughter. The fact that his success as a footballer meant nothing when faced with a very personnel human tragedy got to me.
But generally I think its healthier to keep your emotions for the people you love and care about, not the ones pushed into your life by the media.
But do you feel for every single person on the whole planet who suffers, becomes ill or dies?
yeah but, of all the things in all the world, the thing you have to post for all the world to read, is some nasty horrible racist stuff about someones pain. well done mate. respect. You may have been a complete nobody, but now you have the attention you craved and are now marked as a complete nasty racist nobody. Good work.
I certainly empathise with people experiencing grief, yes.
A young, extremely talented man, potentially set for great things, fighting for his life at 23 certainly makes me feel terribly sorry for the pain his family and friends must be going through.
Nothing to do with the media, btw, I just don't like seeing people suffer.
But do you feel for every single person on the whole planet who suffers, becomes ill or dies?
maybe it's not about being a greif athlete for everyone, perhaps it's about collective greif and feeling a sense of unity as a populous over one single event about which there can be only similar thoughts, those of sorrow and hope for a happy ending. no politics, no opinion, no arguments.
I understand he allegedly laughed at the fact the Muamba might be dead, which is a despicable thing to do under almost all circumstances, but I feel ashamed that this might end in prison.
Fully agree, I can understand that shouting "Fire" in a crowded cinema should be an offence, but being an unpleasant ****?
What I DO object to, is being commanded by various numpties to "pray" for the guy
I'm also an atheist but maybe it's not about what you or I believe but about what the person you are being asked to pray for believes. If it helps them or their family then why not. If you knew someone in a very bad way whose beliefs meant that they would be given hope and comfort by knowing you were praying for them would you?
it's not about what you or I believe but about what the person you are being asked to pray for believes. If it helps them or their family then why not. If you knew someone in a very bad way whose beliefs meant that they would be given hope and comfort by knowing you were praying for them would you?
Well put, sir, well put.
No one is "commanding" you to do anything. They're asking. If that helps them, then that's a good thing.
Anyway, back to the real issue. BBc reporting that there are some positive signs for Muamba - recognising family and responding.
I wouldnt wish what happened to him on anyone but get a grip, 99.99% of the people out there that are sooooo upset about it, have never and will never meet the bloke. Football supporters are just bloody strange.
I really am embarrassed to be an atheist sometimes. In fact I'm embarrassed to be an atheist more and more often.
He'll be going to prison for the racism I imagine.
I think it's outrageous and disgraceful that this douchebag could be sent to prison for being a douchebag on Twitter. It's just unreal that such vast amounts of money could be contemplated being spent on suppressing freedom of speech, even when that speech is coming from a thick Ned.
Apparently he also broke out the c word that rhymes with 'boon'. He got progressively more offensive as people reprimanded him, then realised that he was possibly in a bit of trouble and claimed he'd been hacked, then deleted his account. Then got arrested, then admitted everything and claimed that he was drunk.
There was one site that dragged up his old Bebo account, that said that he hated 'Black Music' and was 'scared of illegal immigrants'.
Well, so what? Don't go to the pub with him, then.
Well, so what? Don't go to the pub with him, then.
So not in favour of racism being illegal then kona?
teamhurtmore - Member
Anyway, back to the real issue. BBc reporting that there are some positive signs for Muamba - recognising family and responding.
Apparently, according to the front of the "Metro" today, the "prayers are working"... 🙄
So not in favour of racism being illegal then kona?
Not if it's just racism, no. I don't believe the state has any business prosecuting people for being nasty and stupid in the absence of some other element.
Not if it's just racism, no.
Someone pinch me I just dreamt that I was in the 1950's
I really am embarrassed to be an atheist sometimes. In fact I'm embarrassed to be an atheist more and more often.
😆 Do you get embarrassed when Dr Brian Cox talks about evolution if you're watching TV with a god botherer?
Someone pinch me I just dreamt that I was in the 1950's
To be fair, being publically racist or committing racist harrassment has only been illegal for 26 years. That was practically yesterday!
The language in that link is an absolute disgrace. He deserves everything that he's got coming to him. It should be 'very black' not 'dead black'.Mrs Toast - MemberHe seems like a charmer (caution: Strong language and general unpleasantness)
Someone pinch me I just dreamt that I was in the 1950's
There's a difference between disapproving of something and thinking that people should be convicted of a criminal offense if they do it. You can't, and shouldn't, try to use the criminal justice system to make people think nice things like you do. At most, you should use it to stop them unduly interfering with others - a job that it's having a hard enough time doing as it is. Do you know how many prisons you'd need to build if you wanted to lock up every racist in the country?
Freedom of speech means that douchebags are going to say stupid, unpleasant, offensive things.
So not in favour of racism being illegal then kona?
No, but very much in favour with this:
“I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.”
It may be 'offensive', it was almost certainly meant to be 'offensive', but the listener / reader of those words actually has to choose to be offended. You could hurl every insult under the sun at me, but if I chose to just ignore you, I wouldn't be offended, no matter how hard you tried.
Racism is despicable, but the erosion of free speech is a whole lot more scary than that.
Being racist is not illegal per se discriminating on grounds of race is. many crimes have a racialy agravated verisin as well as the simple offence . The racialy agravated form usually carries and receives a higher penelty.
I'm with konabunny on this you educate racist beliefs and views and punish racist crimes .
Hmmmm, so perfectly acceptable for stadia full of football fans to chant racist abuse and make monkey noises everytime a black player gets the ball then?
1) that's not just an expression of racism, there's a public order and intimidation aspect to it that changes the picture
2) you're treating "acceptable" as meaning the same as "shouldn't be illegal" and vice versa
It's far better to have a stadium full of football fan's chanting Fabrice Muamba.
Was genuinely moving when the whole stadium began at the same time in Sunday's game. 40,000+ people united in wishing him well.
TBH, this sort of cross team support seems to be increasing, and it shows that football supporters aren't all thugs like the easy media steryotyping.
I've not seen anything like what Berm Bandit described above. It may happen, and I feel truly sorry for anyone subjected to it. But more often than not nowadays, this is a hyperthetical situation created to continue the unjust discrimination against working class fans by bigots who don't like football or its followers.
that's not just an expression of racism, there's a public order and intimidation aspect to it that changes the picture
Oh... I thought it was a about freedom of speech!
What I describe was commonplace in the UK until relatively recently, and still is in parts of Europe. Its all well and good for the likes of you and me to pontificate about "sticks and stones Etc etc", but its not us who are facing it on a daily basis. (I'm making that assumption for you, that you aren't exposed to racism on a daily basis, I know I'm certainly not). So sorry can't agree with you. This particualr twunt is getting precisely what he deserves, and there is no way that it is acceptable behaviour and it should be an affront to any reasonable society and it is therefore precisely what the legal system is there for.
Hmm , I'm sympathetic with konabunny and crank boy, but their logic is misguided. Its a toughy, when I made my comment above I had not realised he had made racist comments too, that makes his offence worse than just laughing at somones (assumed) demise.
No isnult to you kona bunny and crankboy, but here is why its wrong to allow racsist languge:-
We believe in freedom of speech even if we find that speech offensive. But there are limits where one persons speech leads to anothers harm, like incitement to murder - you could take the freedom of speech angle - but if you incite others to murder then thats bad right?
Or if you convince a mentally ill person to plant a bomb (like the famous exeter al qaeda bomber) .
Its the same with racism, allowing people to make racist comments can have the effect of inciting racist attacks, or discrimination, so its a special case of freedom of speech that history has shown us needs to be controlled..
The problem is that philosphy and legal limits are not always compatible..
Another example are those revelling in the fact that Thatcher will die soon, I find this disgusting no matter what they feel about her politics, she wasn't a murderer or an evil criminal, she didn't do anything illegal (that we know of), so its pretty awful what people are saying, but they should be allowed to say it as they are not inciting her death..
I had not realised he had made racist comments too
The clues in the thread title 🙄
My observations of STW are that some people write things (including in their thread title) that might not be true or correct. I do it myself, and am happy to acknowledge it.The clues in the thread title
I've also observed that people like to score petty points rather than enter into civilised discussion.
I'd like to thank you for obviously taking the time to read my post and entering into a discussion about the philisophical and logical points made
Racism is despicable, but the erosion of free speech is a whole lot more scary than that.
it depends I doubnt abyone would actually fight and die for the freedom to troll offensive racist shit whilst pissed on the internet.. it is more the freedom to be an absolute male hen than about free speech.
It is unwise to trot out this noble and fine principle[free speech] to uphold the rights of this individual as all rights have responsibilities
free speech will be curtailed over say child porn for example. I am not trying to get emmotive or suggest you would defend this it was just the strongest/ clearest example I could think of where we would all curtail free speech.
Free speeech needs protecting but the person also needs to say something worthwhile as well as be offensive. They failed that standard. For example dawkins may offend christians but he is making a point I fail to see what point the person was making tbh.
I refer you to slander and a variety of other areas where free speech is limited.
I would find the Thatcher thing disgusting if it was anyone else other than Thatcher. this is offensive to wish death apon her but the point would be to show how much hatred there still is for her and what she did.
I struggle to see a point to this persons comments tbh.
Nice post toys, both of them
bermbandit racist chanting at football is illegal see football offences act 1991 .
toys19 junkyard i'm sure you get that neither i nor konabuny are endorsing racisam but you cannot make holding an opinion nor simply expressing it illegal (except holocaust denial) . The law very neatly draws the line between holding and expressing views and acting to the detriment of others based on those views. In this case the twitter post linked above is clearly criminal .
crankboy, I assure you I didnt think you or konabunny were expressing racism or being rascist. I'm happy that we are having simply having a discussion about racism and freedom of speech without any finger pointing or any of that childish nonsense. 🙂
bermbandit racist chanting at football is illegal see football offences act 1991
Yep I know. So if what this twunt did shouldn't be illegal then surely that shouldn't be illegal either by the same token, being the overall point.
I'd like to thank you for obviously taking the time to read my post and entering into a discussion about the philisophical and logical points made
Bad day? 😕
I see your point but still think this guy falls foul by being so abusive. He can hold opinions obviously no problem and he can broadcast his opinions in a none abusive way, distasteful as they maybe but again ok*, spouting dodgy views [i]in an overtly abusive way[/i] is going to end in a knuckle rapping scenario shirley?but you cannot make holding an opinion nor simply expressing it illegal
*with 1 or 2 exceptions already mentioned
Edit and I'm another who doesn't get the "nation in grief" thing but as someone up there ^ said it seems to be about collective emotion, everyone feeling the same at the same time, which I guess is absolutely intrinsic in going to football matches anyway.
I refer you to slander and a variety of other areas where free speech is limited.
You're addressing a suggestion that hasn't been made - that speech is not, and should not, be limited in any way.
Toys - meh. Racist speech -could- lead to an incitement to violence? That's a low bar for prosecution. You not even talking about -actual- incitement to violence.
I can't believe that you'd be happy for the cops to go around arresting people for talking racist nonsense. If you remember, the Met is having a hard time with the whole "must not arbitrarily detain and beat protesters" concept. You should also look into the ethnicities of the people who get charged with racial offenses and who reports racial offenses in the UK - clue: it often ain't the people you would think need much protection.
How many months should someone who says "they all look the same to me" get? How about "it's a scientific fact that they are lazier"?
Why shouldn't sexism be a criminal offense? There is far more gendered violence in the UK (and world) than racial violence.
there is no way that it is acceptable behaviour and it should be an affront to any reasonable society and it is therefore precisely what the legal system is there for.
The law isn't there to educate people on "acceptable" behavior in polite society. Prison is not a finishing school.
BB racist chanting is the public intimidation of an individual so at the very least they can't do their job and at the higher end could well incite serious public order offences , a good reason fot it to be illegal.
In twiter world making bad taste jokes and expressing distasteful opinions should be legal but disaproved of . Inciting violence or fear of violence or setting out to cause gratuitous harrasment alarm or distress should be illegal .
The question is how and where do you draw the line , "Crap! Robin Hood airport is closed. You've got a week and a bit to get your shit together otherwise I'm blowing the airport sky high!!"
apparently is on the wrong side of that line , which i disagree with as is the Muamba tweet , as were the facebook riot posts which i think clearly were out of order.
CB: Yep, but you see my point. Its about a line in the sand somewhere. Regarding the law, its always going to be about reflecting societies values, so personally I'm pretty comfortable with no overt racism being one of those. Obviously it isn't possible to stop every last little thing, but it does make a statement about whats acceptable and what isn't.
In a country where law is made in the interests of those who make it and a society where many people are casually racist, you're saying the criminal law ought to be about what society's values ought to be.
Edit: sorry, I don't want to personalize this or turn it not some sort of weird thread stalk but I can't help noticing you're on the other thread suggesting that all Catholics are paedo sympathisers. If the law were passed to make any expression of racism a criminal offense, as you seem to be suggesting would be desirable, how would statements like yours be handled?
Yep to be honest to stand quietly by and continue to support an organisation which is so clearly morally bankrupt does in my view push you across into the realms of at the very least being culpable in the commission of paedophilia. Not sure about you, but if I were a Catholic, I'd be screaming from the roof tops for action to be taken, anything less really isn't commensurate with the belief system I'd be subscribing to.
[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-17462619 ]....hurrah![/url]
Well, Catholics aren't a 'race' so I reckon he'd be just dandy.konabunny - Member
...you're on the other thread suggesting that all Catholics are paedo sympathisers. If the law were passed to make any expression of racism a criminal offense, as you seem to be suggesting would be desirable, how would statements like yours be handled?
I was assuming that any law would be Written in similar terms to the current racially aggravated public order laws n the uk which treat religiously motivated behaviour more or less in the same way as racially motivated behavior. Sorry if that wasn't clear...
I'm also surprised to hear someone who is so keen to use courts and prison to suppress what they think is socially unacceptable and offensive behavior would espouse such abrasive and offensive views.
espouse such abrasive and offensive views
LOL: So pretending that [url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17453849 ]this[/url] is acceptable and isolated isn't abrasive or offensive?
Of course it's wrong to be an apologist for that kind of conduct (let alone to do it). But do you think it should be illegal to be a Catholic because you think they are all paedo sympathisers and that's unacceptable and offensive to you - is that what you're saying?
Nope, what I'm saying is being a member of that organisation and standing by idley and accepting that that sort of behaviour goes on makes you culpable in the commission of a crime IMHO. Whether that should or shouldn't be illegal is an entirely seperate conversation. I am however quite prepared to stand by that considered view and defend it wherever I might have to, unlike the little scumbag who this thread is about. Who, once he realised what he had done, wasn't prepared to defend his viewpoint and instead tried to weasel out of accepting responsibility.
Actually not sure what its got to do with this thread, but as you wanted to bring it up I'm happy to accomodate you.
56 days!! Result IMHO
Jail for that, and 100hrs community service for killing a cyclist. Some justice 😥 🙄
what woody said
Drunk nob is a drunk nob SHOCKA
did anyone else laugh when they heard that the little weirdo cried when the sentence was handed down..?
I'd imagine there will be a lot more crying once he arrives at prison. Aren't the countries ethnic minorities somewhat over-represented in the prison population? I'm sure they're all busy preparing the welcoming party
Jail for that, and 100hrs community service for killing a cyclist. Some justice
Quite. Sending this racist idiot to prison is an expensive and pointless failure of imagination.
Sending this racist idiot to prison is an expensive and pointless failure of imagination
I reckon there would have been about 6 million jews, 2 million Poles, & 250,000 gypsies who would have warmly welcomed a similar lack of imagination in the Weimar republic, and that is the point. If we've learnt nothing else from the 20th Century surely to God zero tolerance of racism has to be on the list??