[Closed] Racism row in Australia

pretty sure this guy's sentiment will be aired on talk radio and bars and no this isn't the Daily Mash

[i]"Adam Goodes calls Australia Day invasion day," McMaster wrote in a since-deleted tweet.

"Deport him.

"If you don't like it leave."[/i]

here - hopefully not behind a paywall

[url] http://www.queenslandcountrylife.com.au/news/metro/national/general/goodes-unaustralian-says-former-roar-goalkeeper/2739104.aspx [/url]

my 5cents worth is think of the (southern) US term "boy" and the "boy" was good enough to play, good enough to win 2 (not 1 but 2) Brownlow Medals - Australian of the Year but "the boy" spoke his mind and that isn't acceptable

@spawnofyorkshire: I admire your patience. Don't think I could be around a friend like that.

fin25 - Member
Adam Goodes is a high profile indigenous Australian who is not afraid to remind people what has been done in their country, and what continues to be done in their name. A lot of people struggle to understand or empathise with indigenous Australians' experiences, so resort to good old fashioned racism.

Well put. The amount of "He's a dick, so that makes racism acceptable" in response to him, and that's it's repeatedly presented as journalism, is mind-boggling.

@spawnofyorkshire: I admire your patience. Don't think I could be around a friend like that.

It's so rare for anything to crop up that I forget it's underlying in his personality, could be a year between him saying something and when it does crop up I'm far from patient with him. He's also one who's got it from his dad, not an excuse for him as an adult, just you can see the root cause.
(Edited a bit for clarity)

Well put. The amount of "He's a dick, so that makes racism acceptable" in response to him, and that's it's repeatedly presented as journalism, is mind-boggling.

See also American sports journalists calling NFL player Richard Sherman a 'thug' a year or so back.
I'm trying to find it, but there is a very good Deadspin article about US journalists using 'Thug' for black players rather than the N word

Seems like those in zippykona's link are just concerned about the poor sportsmanship of booing (I didn't read beyond the first twenty or so comments) which to be fair, is far more important than some uppity professionally offended AFL player complaining about racism in a way which is hard for white folk to handle.

Being called an ape = being uppity and professionally offended? Seriously?

And if white Australians can't handle a few home truths then that's their problem, not Goodes'.

Unfortunately I'm finding that too, and I have the gut-feeling that there's some nasty policies on the way from the government. No evidence to suggest it yet, it just feels like something will be coming in the near future

Actually, I find the British have a rather strange sense of racism. On the one hand you will find Daily Mail articles about football racism where the most liked comments are the ones that display their disgust in regards to the allegations, on the other hand the same readership bemoans the "tide of immigrants" coming into the country.

I think Brits are less prejudiced towards the color of someones skin but prejudiced against certain cultural backgrounds. A slightly more esoteric racism than you get in France or Australia.

Well it's also about the time to repeat one of the lines from the brit politics threads if I dare to engage (paraphrase) - **** off you don't live here what do you know.

Seriously?

Seriously?

Well it's also about the time to repeat one of the lines from the brit politics threads if I dare to engage (paraphrase) - **** off you don't live here what do you know.

How very Aussie. 😆 Trying to blend in Mike? 😛

on the other hand the same readership bemoans the "tide of immigrants" coming into the country.

Those two are indoubtedly linked in some cases, but not necessarily all. They are not the same thing.

Some people probably don't want foreigners because they are foreign. But quite a lot of people are worried about the economic impact not anything ethnic - which is a fair concern. It's been shown that this is not in fact a problem, but it's easy to see why they might think it is.

In other words being anti-immigration is not *necessarily* racist, although it might be.

not really Tom it's what gets put to me if I dare to comment too hard in Brit politics threads. I accept there is racism here but it's also inbuilt to UK culture and not an exclusive concept. People here are trying to deal with it.

> The irony of complaining about racism while simultaneously deriding an entire populace.

Yep, I was struck by that too. The thing is, it's mportant, IMHO, to distinguish between a culture & the people. You can make general statements about Oz culture (I lived there 6 months so I think I know what I'm talking about, & yes, it's a racist, parochial, insular place run with some of the most narrow minded & pig ignorant politicians & journalists in the world) but not about individual aussies (as friendly & tolerant as anyone on Earth, just like pretty well everywhere else I've ever been, really). To put that in context, Britain is sort of non-racist (no, really, stick with me) even tho we're led by white upper class twits & you don't have to wait long to hear any number of blatantly racist statements. The US on the other hand is deeply racist even tho their president is an intelligent, thoughtful black man & the only people who'd dream of using the 'n' word are hard-ass black dudes. Not my opinion, incidentally, but that of a Jamaican friend who came here in the early 60s (so he lived here all thru rivers of blood & all that) & has a sister in America, so sees both sides. & before anyone says he's blind to what's going on, no, he's a pretty sophisticated guy who's been a Labour councillor for many years.

I was talking to my Hungarian neighbour the other day and within five minutes of the conversation starting he was whinging about gypsies. Thing is, Hungarians are all fairly racist. Not as racist as Aussies though.

Yep my wife is Hungarian and I find myself challenging some of her views.

You could draw quite a few parallels between the treatment of the Roma in eastern Europe and Aboriginals in Australia.

I lived in Australia in the eighties and there was a lot of overt racism, I'm sorry to see it hasn't changed

Well it's also about the time to repeat one of the lines from the brit politics threads if I dare to engage (paraphrase) - **** off you don't live here what do you know.

Ditto.

I accept there is racism here but it's also inbuilt to UK culture and not an exclusive concept. People here are trying to deal with it.

And ditto.

If you can't see where Mike and I (and a few others) are coming from, then I respectfully suggest you put down your copy of the Daily Mail and get some life experience.

Well it's also about the time to repeat one of the lines from the brit politics threads if I dare to engage (paraphrase) - **** off you don't live here what do you know.

I didn't realise paraphrase now meant 'totally misrepresent'.

I see none of the Australian racism-apologists/deniers could be arsed reading the John Pilger article.

Saying 'well there's racism in the UK too' is pointless whataboutery and a straw man. No-one is claiming that there isn't.

Grow up Grum

No one who lives here has denied that there is racism, we're just calling out the ridiculous assertion that all Australians are racist, and that it's any worse here than the UK.

If you can't see where Mike and I (and a few others) are coming from, then I respectfully suggest you put down your copy of the Daily Mail and get some life experience.

Guffaw are you doing stand up now you feeble minded oaf. Lived in Australia for 2 years, what do you qualify as experience?

No-one has claimed that all Australians are racist so I'm not sure why that keeps coming up except as a fairly pathetic straw man. The vast majority of people I know who've lived, worked or holidayed in Australia say there is much more overt racism there than in the UK. A friend of mine moved back to the UK largely because of it despite most of her family being out there now.

If you can't see it maybe you need to take a look at yourself and your own attitudes.

If you can't see where Mike and I (and a few others) are coming from, then I respectfully suggest you put down your copy of the Daily Mail and get some life experience.

Daily Mail readers would likely agree with racist Aussies.

How does a bit of prejudice feel there Zokes? It's not racism because you're a privileged white boy. BTW....I luuurve how you've managed to turn a thread about an endemic issue in Australia into something about yourself.

grum, just repeating what happens if I get involved in a discussion on brit politics, people play the man when they can't play the argument. It's exactly what has been said in the past.

If you can't see it maybe you need to take a look at yourself and your own attitudes.

I grew up in Bolton, and spent 10 years in North Wales. Trust me, if you can't see rampant racism in the UK then I think it is you who needs to look at your attitudes. Yes, it's here in Oz, but certainly no worse than either Bolton or Bangor, and definitely no worse than UKIP's hot spots

Taking that into consideration, it renders the whole intent of this thread from pighead a bit hypocritical

No one who lives here has denied that there is racism, we're just calling out the ridiculous assertion that all Australians are racist, and that it's any worse here than the UK.

I'm sure grum asked for this to be pointed out ie where lots of people were making the ridiculous assertion that all Australians are racist? Has that happened?

I grew up in Bolton, and spent 10 years in North Wales. Trust me, if you can't see rampant racism in the UK then I think it is you who needs to look at your attitudes. Yes, it's here in Oz, but certainly no worse than either Bolton or Bangor, and definitely no worse than UKIP's hot spots

Except Bolton and Bangor don't represent the British media - which is a good indication of how institutionally racist a country is....the Australian media on the other hand given the hatred and publicity surrounding the player...

media - which is a good indication of how institutionally racist a country is.

Which goes to show just how astonishingly naïve you can be, Tom. I don't know anyone who says Murdoch or the shock jocks speak for them.

And as I said, you have the joys of The Daily Heil if you want to be hung by your own petard.

australia as an institutional racist country

Former Vietnam refugee Hieu Van Le has been named as South Australia's next governor.

Anthony John "Tony" Abbott MP (born 4 November 1957) is the 28th and current Prime Minister of Australia. He has held this position since 2013, and been Leader of the Liberal Party since 2009. Abbott is the Member of Parliament representing the Sydney-based Division of Warringah, having first been elected at a 1994 by-election.

Abbott was born in London, United Kingdom, to an Australian mother and a British father, and emigrated to Sydney with his parents in 1960.

Gillard was born in Barry,[1] Wales, and migrated with her family to Adelaide, South Australia, in 1966

So two of the last 3 prime ministers were foreign, one even ginger and welsh!

 

all Australians are racist, and that it's any worse here than the UK.

well my Australian friend that spent 10 years here in london and is now back in australia who is of indigenous (but mixed with Polynesian/asian) descent says racism is far worse in australia and the main reason he didn’t want to go back.

And if we're using Abbott's racism as evidence that the entire country is racist, it might be worthwhile to note that he's a Brit.

I think there's a proverb about stones and glass houses somewhere.

Which goes to show just how astonishingly naïve you can be, Tom. I don't know anyone who says Murdoch or the shock jocks speak for them.

And as I said, you have the joys of The Daily Heil if you want to be hung by your own petard.

The 21st century Daily Mail would even disgust itself if it managed to print something like this.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/opinion/adam-goodes-lecture-lets-us-all-down/story-fni0ffxg-1226846319656

zokes - Still not a customer

And if we're using Abbott's racism as evidence that the entire country is racist, it might be worthwhile to note that he's a Brit.

Or, not. The point isn't his nationality; the point is that Australians have elected an openly racist gobshite as prime minister

So two of the last 3 prime ministers were foreign, one even ginger and welsh!

Because Obama becoming president managed to the make the USA such a non-institutionally racist country.

Oooh Zokes that really burns, oh how it hurts. The pain the pain make it stop 😆

Everyone migrated to Australia except for the fellah and his ancestors who is copping so much flack from fans etc. So is Abbott a Brit or an Australian, make your mind up

well my Australian friend that spent 10 years here in london and is now back in australia who is of indigenous (but mixed with Polynesian/asian) descent says racism is far worse in australia and the main reason he didn’t want to go back.

Zokes and Mike - your response to this please?

Same as the UK Northwind we elect a government not a prime minister. About the same as when the UK voted CMD in, Labour made themselves unelectable. It's interesting how many people have a great understanding of Australian politics and the way the society works, there is racism but it'd also present in the UK. There are examples of good and bad.

the point is that Australians have elected an openly racist gobshite as prime minister

So, because Britain has elected a pompous toff with many closet racists in his party, does that make the UK a country of posh racists?

I just want to highlight just how disgusting that newspaper article is.

After all, you’ve benefited more than most from the society built, you claim, by “the people in whose name the oppression was done”.

Before British settlement, Aboriginal deaths in tribal warfare rivalled European losses, per capita, in World War I, says historian Geoffrey Blainey in Triumph of the Nomads.

Life for many Aborigines then was brutishly harsh and often included appalling rates of violence against women, as established by paleopathology expert Stephen Webb from the evidence of fractured skulls.

But Goodes now is rich and famous, despite the racism he suffered when young. He has freedom, the best healthcare and a life of luxury unimaginable to his distant ancestors.

So is Abbott a Brit or an Australian, make your mind up

He won't say, which is a tad irritating as if he's still a dual citizen then he'd be ineligible to sit as an MP.

So, because Britain has elected a pompous toff with many closet racists in his party, does that make the UK a country of posh racists?

Let me put it this way, even Farrage is a better - more educated and less racist option than Abbot.

Abbot is up there with Marine Le Pen, in fact...actually Abbots worse.

well my Australian friend that spent 10 years here in london and is now back in australia who is of indigenous (but mixed with Polynesian/asian) descent says racism is far worse in australia and the main reason he didn’t want to go back.

Zokes and Mike - your response to this please?

In my normal life I meet and work with people from a bigger range of descents than you would find in the UK. I accept that there is racism, same as the UK, same as france and the USA etc. there is political will to change things.

I just want to highlight just how disgusting that newspaper article is.

And again, you highlight how naïve you are with regard to Australian media and politics. It's an opinion piece in a Murdoch tabloid by an individual bigot. To say that it represents the general views of Australians is as ludicrous as my saying that Farage represents the average Brit's views. I'm sure you'll find similar in The Sun, which, surprise surprise, is owned by the same odious cretin, Murdoch

I'm sure you'll find similar in The Sun, which, surprise surprise, is owned by the same odious cretin, Murdoch

Except I doubt that piece would ever be published in the UK outside of a BNP party magazine - even in the British Murdoch press.

To say that it represents the general views of Australians is as ludicrous as my saying that Farage represents the average Brit's views.

Nigel didn't become PM did he, Abbot did - have you read some of his past indiscretions?

eg

‘Now, I know that there are some Aboriginal people who aren’t happy with Australia Day. For them it remains Invasion Day. I think a better view is the view of Noel Pearson, who has said that Aboriginal people have much to celebrate in this country’s British Heritage’

Let me put it this way, even Farrage is a better - more educated and less racist option than Abbot.

We don't elect a prime minister - just like in the UK we elect a government that is led by a prime minsters - could have been Malcom recently who is certainly different.

We have leadership elections though. Is some Enoch Powell knockoff running the conservative party?

Noooooooooooo

Let me put it this way, even Farrage is a better - more educated and less racist option than Abbot.

You are very naïve then. Abbott was a Rhodes Scholar, Farage didn't attend uni at all.

Christ, I never thought I'd be defending Abbott anywhere!

You are very naïve then. Abbott was a Rhodes Scholar, Farage didn't attend uni at all.

Didn't do much for Abbot did it? Nigel would still run rings around him.

You do but whichever party you elect can then select it's leader so you don't elect a PM. Case in point if the Liberal party had contested it's leadership this year Malc T would probably be PM and a very different leader of the country. But as you know so much about politics here I'll defer to you Tom

That's good to know, also does nothing to defend your claim that Australia isn't institutionally racist as well.

No, are you just hard of understanding Tom? There are a few points going on here. Institutionally we have a much more diverse population than the UK, we have more people from different backgrounds in positions of power than the UK, it's a true multi cultural nation. Racism is being psuhed further out.

There are a few points going on here. Institutionally we have a much more diverse population than the UK, we have more people from different backgrounds in positions of power than the UK, it's a true multi cultural nation. Racism is being psuhed further out.

Certainly looks that way, what with a backlash against a sportsman that bests the sports racism found in Spain and Italy.

In fact, I'm guessing you're white - so I'm going to suggest that it's up to non-whites in Australia to decide how well racism is being pushed out of Australia. Not white boys who never experience it.

Institutionally we have a much more diverse population than the UK,

Be good to see proof of that.

Yes so a lot of incidents that are being used to paint a population, if I take my friends as examples none of them actually follow afl and really couldn't give a shit about it. It's not a representation of Australia.

Nigel would still run rings around him.

Being a mass debater doesn't really have much to do with racism.

Farage plays well to the cameras - probably better than most. Good TV presence has no bearing on the level of racism in someone. Pretty much the same way as a rapidly falling segment of a country's news industry bears little reflection on the views of the nation as a whole. Your entire argument is an non sequitur.

also does nothing to defend your claim that Australia isn't institutionally racist as well.

Also does nothing to defend your claim that it is.

Be good to see proof of that.

I'm sure you know how to use google...

Yes so a lot of incidents that are being used to paint a population, if I take my friends as examples none of them actually follow afl and really couldn't give a shit about it. It's not a representation of Australia.

Goode seems to think the racism found in sport is representative of Australia, so does John Pilger. My suggestion is that it's not a representation of your Australia, an Australia viewed from the eyes of a white person.

Be good to see proof of that.

Farage plays well to the cameras - probably better than most. Good TV presence has no bearing on the level of racism in someone. Pretty much the same way as a rapidly falling segment of a country's news industry bears little reflection on the views of the nation as a whole. Your entire argument is an non sequitur.

Put it this way, Nigel is far to civilized for the kind of crap that Abbot spouts. And I have a hunch that he's that way inclined in private as well.

I didn't make the claim 😆

I think Fin25 nailed the issue some time ago:

I think the distinction that needs to be made here is between personal racism and structural/institutional racism.
Of course racist idiots are going to feel justified if their government's policies towards indigenous Australians and foreign immigrants are as negative and, well, racist as those of the Australian Government.
The stolen generation was only two generations ago and the Government continues to pursue aggressive policies against indigenous communities based on largely unsubstantiated child protection scaremongering, just as they did to justify the stolen generation in the first place.
Adam Goodes is a high profile indigenous Australian who is not afraid to remind people what has been done in their country, and what continues to be done in their name. A lot of people struggle to understand or empathise with indigenous Australians' experiences, so resort to good old fashioned racism.

I know but I can't be ****ed with you... and Tom in the UK you could have Borris as PM without an election same as you got Brown after Blair. You also completely miss the point as to why they got elected in the first place.

Let the children play Mike, there's cricket to be watched

I know it was the lunch break...

I know but I can't be **** with you... and Tom in the UK you could have Borris as PM without an election same as you got Brown after Blair. You also completely miss the point as to why they got elected in the first place.

Boris would still be better than Abbot.

Your best of the best in a mainstream party would be kicked out of UKIP for being too racist in the UK. Instead your politicians voted him into a position of power!

If you cant be arsed why did you get involved 😆 what the hell has Boris got to do with how people are treating an indigenous AFL player. Wow that is quite a jump 😆

No, are you just hard of understanding Tom? There are a few points going on here. Institutionally we have a much more diverse population than the UK, we have more people from different backgrounds in positions of power than the UK, it's a true multi cultural nation. Racism is being psuhed further out.

Except what you have in Australia that we don't have in the UK is an indigenous population that everyone else can join in being racist against, who have suffered what pretty much amounts to genocide, that continue to be be massively discriminated against.

Well, except for gingers.

Anyway George Bush was a more progressive statesmen than Abbot, so why do Aussies feel they should be let off the international piss taking hook?

only if you didn't bother reading the previous posts (OH HANG ON...) it is all about Tom if I'm guessing right (aged 17 3/4) missing sever points about a political system where the leader of the majority party becomes PM rather than voting for a PM/leader US style system for a president and that we could have replaced Abbot in March and it was very close (if you actually follow Aus politics as I'm sure you do)

Also trying to extrapolate AFL to the entire population is overrated given it's basically a Victoria sport with minor influence in the other states.

only if you didn't bother reading the previous posts (OH HANG ON...) it is all about Tom if I'm guessing right (aged 17 3/4) missing sever points about a political system where the leader of the majority party becomes PM rather than voting for a PM/leader US style system for a president and that we could have replaced Abbot in March and it was very close (if you actually follow Aus politics as I'm sure you do)

You are missing the points, our politicians would have never even come close to voting for Abbot in a leadership contest. Now lets refer back to the old saying that "people get the government they deserve", our politicians would never vote for a leader like Abbot because they know that there would be a public backlash against it.

🙄

Tom, really, if you're interested in Auspol, do some reading of the last 10 years in Canberra. It's stranger than fiction, but it does highlight just how lucky Abbott is to be anywhere near The Lodge.

Looking at it from the outside, as you are, makes it very easy to draw the wrong conclusion, as you are

If you want really scary Auspol check out this guys story "Sir Johannes "Joh" Bjelke-Petersen" not long ago and really frightening.

Looking at it from the outside, as you are, makes it very easy to draw the wrong conclusion, as you are

Sounds remarkably like what a White South African or Rhodesian would say.

If you want really scary Auspol check out this guys story "Sir Johannes "Joh" Bjelke-Petersen" not long ago and really frightening.

Even by Qld standards he was indeed quite special.

I think his son is involved in state politics up there now 😯

[img] [/img]
If you want to know about a political landscape in a country you don't really know that much about then read all sides and don't just pick extreme examples, I'm reading around a lot of issues here and trying to get to grips with the very complex situation in SE Asia. There is a lot going on and a lot of politics, it would be very foolish to try and make a point based on isolated examples.

Sounds remarkably like what a White South African or Rhodesian would say.

I think that's close enough to Godwin to count

oh and just saying like..
[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-33716501 ]David Cameron criticised over migrant 'swarm' language[/url]

Asked about the Calais crisis, he spoke of "a swarm of people coming across the Mediterranean, seeking a better life, wanting to come to Britain".
Labour's Harriet Harman said "he should remember he is talking about people and not insects" and called the use of "divisive" language a "worrying turn".

That's what you basically are though, as a white person in Australia.

You are following the same colonial traditions, perhaps a milder version, but you are more closely related than you think. How the indigenous population is still treated in Australia just serves to highlight that.

oh and just saying like..
David Cameron criticised over migrant 'swarm' language

The difference is, is that the correction of his statement will probably be accepted by Cameron and not viciously opposed by every other party member and his/her dog.

"No but, Abbott, but racist but but but....."

How do you feel about moving to and contributing to a country that is little better than an apartheid state Zokes?

Tom_W1987 - Member
That's what you basically are though, as a white person in Australia.

I am an immigrant in a country, I have basic rights and it will take up to 4 years to get any more. I look at my position here and understand it. I also talk and work with people from diverse backgrounds and we talk about racism and immigration.

So you're a white person, talking to mostly white people and the odd well educated Indian and Asian from a white persons perspective.

Good for you Mike.

Tom_W1987 - Member
How do you feel about moving to and contributing to a country that is little better than an apartheid state Zokes?