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FFS.
[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18363736 ]Netherlands captain Mark van Bommel says the team's black players were subjected to monkey chants at an open training session in Poland.
He described the alleged abuse in Krakow as a "real disgrace".[/url]
I agree with him. Would hate to see people's enjoyment of this tournament scarred by such idiocy.
still bemused why FIFA thought hosting it there was a bright idea
still bemused why FIFA thought hosting it there was a bright idea
+1. Makes a mockery of FIFAs anti racism campaign.
Heard this on the news this morning - didn't FIFA try to say it wasn't racist?!
still bemused why FIFA thought hosting it there was a bright idea
*cough* bribed *cough*
I'm fairly sure this tournament will descend into farce. The hosts will keep denying the problem until a player or team walk off, then they'll go in heavy handed.
I can see Holland, England or France withdrawing at some point.
Terrible advert for the game, and no, Terry should not be going.
didn't FIFA try to say it wasn't racist?!
They said the crowd were going Boo-urns!
[url= http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/jun/07/euro-2012-holland-racist-abuse ]Guardian Linky[/url]
I like:
"At least now we know what we can encounter," the Holland coach, Bert van Marwijk, said with heavy cynicism. "Very atmospheric."
football racism shocker. Next you will be telling me a large portion of the people who watch football worldwide are fat bigoted idiots.
I hope the teams have the courage to follow through with their threats to walk off the pitch if this happens during a game. They shouldn't be expected to tolerate it, and FIFA should be the ones to bear the consequences.
Next you will be telling me a large portion of the people who watch football worldwide are fat bigoted idiots
No. The next thing I will be telling you, is that you're an idiot to use such sweeping generalisations.
...now back on topic.*
*Awaits amusing 'wendyball' comment.
Next you will be telling me a large portion of [s]the[/s] people [s]who watch football[/s] worldwide are fat bigoted idiots.
fixed it for you
still no excuse though
Crickey, they might even have decided to let the UK, France or Spain host the event as well. Or is racist behaviour only found in Polish or Ukranian society? Perhaps the hidden Korean and Japanese version is more acceptable?
Fantastic. The BBC playing to a sensationalist agenda once again, in an effort to tarnish the Euros, right before (surprise, surprise), the London 2012 Olympic.
Will the BBC make a documentary right before London 2012 showing the riots that spread across the country last year, showing the world that [i]this[/i] is the city that is hosting the Olympics? No.
Will the BBC inform people of the racism that happens in this country, home to the EDL, an Islamophobic hate organisation which has a considerable membership, ahead of the Olympics? No.
Will the BBC ever stop attempting to tarnish the reputation of other countries, while not mentioning a word about the crimes and colonialism committed by the West in the past ten years, the tearing apart of the Arab and Muslim world, plundering of their natural resources, and the slaughtering of a million of their civilians? No.
Some things never change. Rubbish media = rubbish, biased reporting that only shows one side.
Is it not UEFA who are responsible for the tournament?
Anyway, my prediction is that England will play 3 games then come home. It may look like failure to qualify for the knockout stages, but it may be spun as a 'protest'.
The BBC playing to a sensationalist agenda once again
Oh do shut up. As Darcy pointed out, this is across all media, not the BBC. There's no agenda here apart from highlighting the blight of racism. If the news reporting it continues to show how utterly unacceptable it is, then that's another little victory.
Will the BBC inform people of the racism that happens in this country, home to the EDL, an Islamophobic hate organisation which has a considerable membership, ahead of the Olympics? No
Do you EVER actually read the news? 😕
lol, silly wendyballers. they want to play tiddlywinks, thats where its at, no padding, no messin'!
Fantastic. The BBC playing to a sensationalist agenda once again, in an effort to tarnish the Euros, right beore (surprise, surprise), the London 2012 Olympic.
What, because people will only watch one sporting event this summer so it better be the Olympics?
Will the BBC make a documentary right before London 2012 showing the riots that spread across the country last year, showing the world that this is the city that is hosting the Olympics? No.Will the BBC inform people of the racism that happens in this country, home to the EDL, an Islamophobic hate organisation which has a considerable membership, ahead of the Olympics? No.
Well I think you'll find there have been PLENTY of documentaries about both. Unlike Poland and Ukraine, you don't see many deniers for the problems we have in the UK. Where there's racism we call it racism or didn't you spot John Terry's impending court date?
Rubbish media = rubbish, biased reporting that only shows one side.
Yes, we should see it from the side of the racists too, after all it must be pretty shit (or is it really good, I'm not sure whether you'd want people to insult/beat up or want them to stay away) to be a racist and have foreigners with different coloured skin invited to your country!
Nobody is saying ALL poles and ALL ukrainians are racists, just there's a problem that neither FIFA, the organisers nor the countries themselves have addressed. In the BBC documentary, the police chief said that the fans were simply pointing at the opposing fans rather than doing Nazi salutes. The footage proved that to be a lie. If the local police turn a blind eye, it's going to be troublesome, no?
Some things never change. Rubbish media = rubbish, biased reporting that only shows one side.
Some people forget where they actually live....
A wide and free media exists in the UK
I don't think the management of the BBC is capable of such ingenuity Alejandro!
So C'pt, perhaps by exposing racist bigotry for what it is, football made the correct choice after all. Nah, that would require ingenuity as well!
Its a bloody outrage!! We wouldn't tolerate that in this country. Imagine including a racist in your squad, and excluding other players as they weren't happy about the fact
Aaaaaaaaaaah - the sweet aroma of hypocrisy
Its a bloody outrage!! We wouldn't tolerate that in this country.
Agreed, we should increase the border controls here to stop the racists entering the UK in the first place.
The point is that western media (through primarily the BBC) parrot the agenda of Western governments and never say a word against them or hold them to account, save for petty domestic politics, whilst happily engaging in the criticism of other countries. It is all about serving Britain and the US.
You can argue that the issue here is racism in other countries but ask yourself whether the BBC will air documentaries reminding people of the riots we had before London 2012 - you have my word that they will not.
For the record, even the people interviewed in that Panorama documentary have hit back at the BBC for misrepresenting their views and exploiting what they had to say, without showing the clips in which they said that they live in Poland happily and that, for the [i]vast[/i] majority of foreigners, life is great.
http://www.economist.com/blogs/easternapproaches/2012/06/ugly-spectre
If you think there is no agenda here, you have no idea of how the Western media works.
It's actually UEFA that are hosting the European Championships, not FIFA.
FIFA are the idiots responsible for awarding the World Cup to the mighty footballing nation of Qatar.
EDIT: Just seen this
Is it not UEFA who are responsible for the tournament?
Yes it is.
The point is that western media (through primarily the BBC) parrot the agenda of Western governments
Course they do, cupcake.
A wide and free media exists in the UK
Hahahaha - please. This made me laugh out loud. If you think the media in this country is 'free' in any meaningful sense you are either deluded or ignorant. I suspect the later.
90% of articles are not researched independently by their writers, they are merely reshufflings of press releases and PR material, pumped into the media by those who have the money to do so.
Journalistic operations have been scaled back to save money to such a huge extent that virtually no journalist has the time to go out and find stories for themselves, or indeed check the facts of what they are being fed.
The media parrots the agenda of the government and plays to the mass sentiment of people in the country.
Not many people know any of the above (as can be seen on here) and it's sad - [url= http://www.amazon.co.uk/Flat-Earth-News-Award-winning-Distortion/dp/0701181451 ]open your eyes[/url].
[i]The point is that western media (through primarily the BBC) parrot the agenda of Western governments and never say a word against them or hold them to account, save for petty domestic politics, whilst happily engaging in the criticism of other countries. It is all about serving Britain and the US.[/i]
That's right. I mean, just look at how all the major media channels, both broadcast and print, have said for the last ten years that the forays into Irag and Afghanistan have been a resounding success...
Time for people to start putting their money where their mouth is.... if they find this racist chanting as abhorrent as what they are telling us - then walk off the pitch.
I would massively respect any manager that does so.... but I really doubt that they will.
Seems that racism from proto-Nazi thugs isn't the only problem in the Ukraine.
http://www.hrc.org/blog/entry/anti-gay-violence-in-ukraine
WHAT a waste of planetary space it is.
then walk off the pitch.
[url= http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/jun/07/euro-2012-england-joe-hart ]Joe Hart sez no.[/url]
Seems that racism from proto-Nazi thugs isn't the only problem in the Ukraine.http://www.hrc.org/blog/entry/anti-gay-violence-in-ukraine
WHAT a waste of planetary space it is.
*facepalm*
racism
I think racing is well gay
Rangers were recently punished for sectarian singing from their fans, Celtic for a similar offences, and rightly so.
Will these nations be handed down punishments as well as UEFA made a right song and dance about it, I'm not holding out much hope 😕
on the plus side the England team won't get past the quarter finals so it doesn't matter anyway.
Seems you're not managing to sell your "Western Media Conspiracy" theory hereabouts, Alejandro...
I wonder why.
Some things never change. Rubbish media = rubbish, biased reporting that only shows one side.
Apparently the BBC has also been buying up Netherland Newspapers as part of their global conspiracy to promote the Olympics.
Seems you're not managing to sell your "Western Media Conspiracy" theory hereabouts, Alejandro...I wonder why.
Well I never used the word 'conspiracy' for a start and I'm not sure I'd go that far.
But in answer to your question: it's because they don't know how the media in this country functions and think it is 'free' in a meaningful sense.
journalism student ale?
No.
...but those are some of the many reasons why I chose not to do a journalism degree 😉
I'm sure there's a troll here somewhere........
[img] 
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But in answer to your question: it's because they don't know how the media in this country functions and think it is 'free' in a meaningful sense.
My guess is that most of the people on here worked that one out in their teens, and are now in the 40's and have a reasonable understanding of media distortion and manipulation, either by the owners of the papers, or by the news-sources that feed them. That said it still amazes me when someone reads a story from a newspaper and believes it to be true.
But the fact that the media is biased does not mean racism isn't a problem. And rubbishing the messenger (however much you may dislike the messenger and that they only deliver certain messages) doesn't in itself invalidate the message.
Also what's your take also on ministers from several EU countries boycotting Ukraine because of their treatment of Yulia Tymoshenko?, a story also in most of the media. Is this part of the UK plan to promote the olympics too?
What's your take also on ministers from several EU countries boycotting Ukraine because of their treatment of Yulia Tymoshenko?, a story also in most of the media.
The policy that will be reviewed during the later stages of the tournament? 😆
😀
Or is racist behaviour only found in Polish or Ukranian society?
Pretty much every Pole I have ever worked with has turned out to be racist. On my last site I thought I had met my first non-racist Pole, as there was a gang of black painters which also included one Pole. The Pole seemed to get on very well with all his black workmates and they clearly liked him (I spoke a great deal to all of them) When the job came towards the end the last remaining painter was the Pole. Within a couple of days on being on his own he had made a reference to me concerning the work standards of "the monkeys" as he called them. I was truly shocked, and it was a shame as I had got on really well with guy up to that point.
I find it particularly objectionable that many Poles should come over to our multiracial society and then take an offensive attitude towards black Britons, and all the more offensive when they expect me to be also racist and agree with their moronic attitude. They should **** off back to their own country if they don't like the skin colour of some Britons. IMO.
They should **** off back to their own country if they don't like the skin colour of some Britons. IMO
oh dear
oh dear
so do we have to be sooooooo politically correct and liberal and multicultural that we accept racism..?
My guess is that most of the people on here worked that one out in their teens, and are now in the 40's and have a reasonable understanding of media distortion and manipulation, either by the owners of the papers, or by the news-sources that feed them. That said it still amazes me when someone reads a story from a newspaper and believes it to be true.
I can only hope that this is true, but judging by the responses above, I'm not so sure.
But the fact that the media is biased does not mean racism isn't a problem. And rubbishing the messenger (however much you may dislike the messenger and that they only deliver certain messages) doesn't in itself invalidate the message.
That's true. I am not for one second going to argue that racism shouldn't be written about and condemned. But to make it the centrepiece of the tournament, which is what has happened, is both unhelpful and misleading.
They should **** off back to their own country if they don't like the skin colour of some Britons
Whilst I agree with the general gist of that, I'm not sure I like the way it's been put 😕
You want to welcome racists to this country alex222 ?
You think that people who take objectionable views towards certain Britons because they happen to have black skin should be welcomed here ?
Oh dear.
I bet you read the Guardian, eh ?
I predict some heavy moderation on this thread soon 😉
my point was you saying bloody racists polish send them home was somewhat er whats the word. oh yeah racist.
Besides as has been mentioned and now demonstrated england is full of racists.
I don't read newspapers actually. What do you read?, the mail and the sun follow by mien kampf every morning?
You want to welcome racists to this country alex222 ?
Would they still be racists in this country?
I agree with ernie.
Just for balance Ernie, I work/have worked with plenty of Poles who behave/behaved perfectly well and are/were not racist, so I would be careful about sweeping the generalisations too far! 😉 But are there any nations or indeed any individuals who do not have an element (open or otherwise) of *isms or *phobias within them that others would find offensive? Everyone carries some bias within them, its just most know how to understand and check those biases to prevent them affecting behaviour towards others (hopefully). A role of eduction perhaps? There are white racists, black racists, Indian racists, Asian racists for example....where do you stop?
Do you attack the Olympics going to the UK or Brazil because of factors such as income inequality?
Now that the decision has been made, I do not think that walking of a pitch does anything. Staying on does not condone racist behaviour and like all bullying, best to take it face on and expose it for what it is. The racists will be exposed for what they are, and chapeau to those who have to suffer the abuse but stand up to it in a dignified manner. That's were the media focus should be IMO - ie, re-enforcing the correct behaviour and ridiculing the racists.
Some people are confusing an oppressed media with one that doesn't tell it like they want to hear it.
Taking a selection across the media still have to say the BBC is up there for being impartial.
STW has a habit of not seeing the rest of the world. Have a look at some US channels...
my point was you saying bloody racists polish send them home was somewhat er whats the word. oh yeah racist.Besides as has been mentioned and now demonstrated england is full of racists.
And my point is don't come to our multicultural society if you are a racist, quite frankly it's taking the piss.
And yes, you're quite right, we have racists here (although not full of racists as you so stupidly claim) But what's you're point - that we need more ? ffs
We also have murderers and rapists here, but that doesn't mean that foreigners with criminal records should be allowed to settle here. Or do you think that it does ?
he wasn't generalising poles, he was generalising racist poles, so his comment was possibly bigotist rather than racist?my point was you saying bloody racists polish send them home was somewhat er whats the word. oh yeah racist.
no but if the organisers are refusing to do anything about racism at one game not showing up for the next game would be an idea.Staying on does not condone racist behaviour
my point is calling people racists; and then saying send them back to where they come from is xenophobic/racist and hypocritical.
so I would be careful about sweeping the generalisations too far!
Copy and paste my "sweeping generalisations" teamhurtmore, I would be fascinated in seeing where I am guilty of that. I give specific examples of my personal experiences.
Although I am fully aware that racism is a cultural issue, you don't need a PhD in Sociology to know that.
saying send them back to where they come from is xenophobic/racist and hypocritical.
????? WHAT?????
I can't see any teams walking off the pitch at the Euros, no matter how bad it might get. Just won't happen.
Possibly donk - not suggesting thats its easy at all.
E_L, understood, hence my use of the [i]conditional[/i] tense! 😉
alex222 - Membermy point is calling people racists; and then saying send them back to where they come from is xenophobic/racist and hypocritical.
Your point is that you want to pussyfoot around and not call a Pole a racist because doing so would be "racist".
I have a low tolerance of racists and that includes foreign racists. I feel no need to be "politically correct".
If a Pole starts whingeing to me about black people then it is highly likely that I will tell them to **** off back to Poland. Makes sense after all, doesn't it ?
One of the things that makes me actually quite proud of our rainy little island is the standard of our newspapers, warts and all. I'm grown up enough to be able to read the Guardian, Telegraph, Economist and Spectator, listen to Radio 4 and then make up my own mind.
Alejandro - if you dont like the "Western Press", which do you like?
....and how old are you?
you saying send people back to where they came from is racist. i'm not saying you calling someone racist - is racist.
with regards to political correctness; i think it is fair to say you have never met me.
Poles bless them have many qualities, but I do fear they have a few medieval attitudes. Was chatting to my builders from Krakow last year, shooting the breeze about football.
One of them, lovely fella called Shamek says to me "This Arsenal, they are very good team no? But tell me one thing, why is everyone black?"
with regards to political correctness; i think it is fair to say you have never met me.
Eh ? 😕 Do you actually know what you're talking about ? I said, [b]"I feel no need to be "politically correct".[/b] Yes that's true. Despite the fact that I have never met you 😕
you saying send people back to where they came from is racist. i'm not saying you calling someone racist - is racist.
Well. Depends on how you phrase it:
1, All those foreigners should go back where they came from - Racist
2, All those foreigners that are against the UKs social inclusion of people of all races, nationalities and sexualities should go back to where they came from - not racist
you saying send people back to where they came from is racist.
You are a bedwetter. There is nothing racist about wanting standards for potential immigrants. Criminals, racists etc; send them home, regardless of colour, nationality etc. Nothing racist about that at all.
I occasionally work with a Ukranian guy who is mostly intelligent, well read, thoughtful and a good conversationalist. I'm always shocked when he suddenly comes out with racist comments about blacks or jews - he is completely blinkered, and despite being a foreigner living in the UK, has freely and proudly admitted to voting for the BNP.
I soon learned not to try and discuss these beliefs with him as it all got a bit heated, very quickly, but I happened to see a documentary a year or so ago about the way the Russians treated the Ukranians in the 2nd World War (bear with me). The Ukranians were pretty much forced to side with the Germans in order to survive, and formed a few crack fighting forces. These Nazi forces are STILL idolised in schools and pupils are taught how brave these jew-killing, gypsy-persecuting, Ukranian forces were. So there is definitely some state sponsored brainwashing going on there.
Not excusing the racism, just hopefully giving a little background.
One of the things that makes me actually quite proud of our rainy little island is the standard of our newspapers, warts and all. I'm grown up enough to be able to read the Guardian, Telegraph, Economist and Spectator, listen to Radio 4 and then make up my own mind.
As long as we omit news corporation rags like you have, then yes. 😉
Well, theres a certain train of thought that says a large part of Europe was well primed for anti-semitism in the 19th and early 20th centuries and the excuse to be able to go ahead and do something about it was all that was needed.
Anyway, just for balance, I once shared a house with an American who on the face of it was quite normal. Until he saw a black guy kissing a white girl on TV (it was national kissing day or some such nonsense) and he threw his can of coke at the TV (not kidding) and explained in clear language what he thought of people who permitted such behaviour and what he'd do if his sister went out with a black guy. It was the first time I'd ever really been exposed to such explosive and vicious racism in my life despite growing up in a North Sea fishing city.
My other housemate and I left the house immediately and moved out a few weeks later.
Racism is instilled in people from an early age, just lok at the problems in northern ireland, and some of the inner city areas here.
I t will never go away in some peoples eyes, as its instilled from birth to hate or havea chip on ones shoulder about certain parts of society.
If the footballers dont like being called names, walk away, turn the other cheek etc, and let the police deal with it.
Saying all Poles are racists is as daft as saying all Tories are racist
I'm pretty sure the guys that spat on me and my gf in oxford were from poland or ukraine something like that.
I've a gf whos partner is romanian, she's really cool and funny apart from when she gets drunk and starts on about "gypsys" in her country, it's pretty shocking to hear.
....or a labour one
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-16423278
....or the whole RAF
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/****_%28dog%29
Saying all Poles are racists is as daft as saying all Tories are racist
Which I guess is probably why no one has said that all Poles are racists. What do you think ?
It is also daft to claim that racism is not a cultural thing. Supremely daft in fact.
I think the team should definitely walk off if the racist chanting reaches an unacceptable level, it would have far more impact than soldiering on, and there's no way UEFA or FIFA or the local government could simply ignore that.
(Unacceptable level: not just a couple of idiots, a large section of the crowd.)
You are a bedwetter.
Am I the one who worked with a person who said something I apparently found offensive and instead of saying it to his face came on a forum and said
many Poles should come over
They should **** off back to their own country if they don't like the skin colour of some Britons. IMO.
Then accused me of
want to pussyfoot around and not call a Pole a racist
thought not 😆
Am I the one who worked with a person who said something I apparently found offensive and instead of saying it to his face came on a forum and said
Are you accusing me of being unable to show my displeasure when someone expresses racist sentiments which they expect me to agree with ? And you are the one who said to me, [i]"i think it is fair to say you have never met me".[/i]
Although I might have got that wrong - I'm struggling to figure out what you're on about.
For the record, if someone makes a racist remark which they expect me to agree with, I take that as a [i]personal[/i] insult, as they are assuming that I'm a racist too, irrespective of any insult that they might have made against black people. Although I don't go ape-shit like some sort of ranting trot, I just make it clear that the remark isn't acceptable to me and not to insult me by assuming that I share their Neanderthal attitudes.
So why didn't you just say 'look mate round here we don't conduct ourselves like that'?