[Closed] RAB Jacket - what’s the point in offering a lifetime guarantee?

That’s poor that is. I’ve had zips go on couple of my rapha items over the years. Been replaced no quibbles

The devil is in the detail with these things:

RAB say:

item fails due to a manufacturing defect during its usable lifetime

So question is whether it's a "manufacturing defect" and what they classify as the "usable lifetime" of the Jacket.

I don't like this "product lifetime" thing.... as it seems to meaningless, and deliberately misleading people into thinking that the product is guaranteed for their lifetime. However, I also don't think it's reasonable to expect that a piece of clothing is going to be guaranteed for a human lifetime.

But also from their website:

Repair - Once you’ve invested a season or ten creating landmark moments with your Rab clothing and equipment, you won’t want it to end – and with the Rab Service Centre, it doesn’t have to. Staffed by specialist technicians, many of whom worked alongside our founder Rab Carrington, at our original Sheffield premises, there’s virtually no repair we can’t handle. Great kit. Long-term performance. Zero wastage. More adventure. That’s what the Service Centre is all about. If the Repair you require is not listed, then please contact us to see what we can do for you.

I would be going back to them and asking them if they can fix it

Edit: Ahhhhhhhh.... on their website there is a separate "warranty" form, and a "repair" form.

I bought a Rab jacket years ago, one of those eVent things, a Neutrino maybe? Thing wasnt cheap at all at just short of £200 iirc, and is the second worst jacket I have ever owned, didnt even pretend to be waterproof, leaked since the very first time I wore it. Would never ever buy another. Binned it within a year.
The absolute worst jacket I ever bought was a Helly Hansen Odin Mountain Jacket, from Helly Hansen. £400 odd , but got it in a sale. Again, never even pretended to be waterproof, absolute shite, and within 10 months the hood fell off.
Got in touch with their UK warranty department, wouldnt touch it. Wouldnt stand behind their £400 jacket. Nagged and nagged until, "as a sign of good will" they offered to pay half the repair cost with their approved repairer , but I had to pay the postage and packing. At this point I just wanted it sorted, expecting the repair bill to be astronomical. But nope. The repair cost £19 i think, postage and packing something like £11, so out of an overall bill of £30, they contributed about £9.50 or something
Up yours, HH, for ever. You suck balls.

This was their response, which I got pretty quickly:

“ Thanks for your email and I’m sorry to hear about your zip issue.

Unfortunately, we are unable to repair / replace zips on waterproof jackets as we are only a small repair team that focuses predominately on down items and given the age of the item, this would not be deemed a manufacturing fault.

There are a couple of larger dedicated repair centers in the UK who should be able to assist you further. We would recommend contacting…….. [snip]”

I am so sick of crap service and broken promises from manufacturers and retailers. Not a month goes by when I’m not complaining about something going wrong.
I get to the point now where I take screenshots of everything I buy, including returns pages etc. just to protect myself as I know there a good chance I might have to fight my corner at some point.

Yeah, cheers for all that cash, not our problem any more mate.
Like I said, I would never buy another.
Contrast it with Paramo, my jackets been watertight and warm for over 20 years, still looks like new, and when I sent it away for a strip and reproof ( before I knew how to do it), they replaced the main zip for free, they didnt even mention it to me, I noticed it one day.
I will never buy Goretex or any of these tech fabrics again, as the only good goretex i ever had was my issue DPM rain suit back in '96, the one with the zips that went uo to the knee, i seem to remember. Heavy but solid and dry.

weeeeeeell...... to be honest, that's not a terrible response from the manufacturer - I wouldn't call that a brush-off. I think I'd probably challenge them on the marketing BS on their website, it seems like "no repair we can't handle" is just a bare-faced lie.

As Johnny says above - it might be a relatively cheap/simple fix for the people they sent you a link to.

How old was the jacket, out of interest?

I am so sick of crap service and broken promises from manufacturers and retailers. Not a month goes by when I’m not complaining about something going wrong.

Hmmmm, we all have a bad experience from time to time, but it sounds like it might be an expectations issue to be honest.

Agree on HH.... I've never really "got" their brand - seem to be insanely expensive for Millets quality. Feels like they are still cashing-in on the reputation of their thermals from 50 years ago, with sailing-types.

Hey OP, I feel your pain, wasn't blown away by Rab customer service either so feel your pain.

I've had great results repairing old jackets with Scottish Mountain Gear in Musselburgh. Have saved a couple of very old Gore jackets and twice repaired my Shakedry when the cat sharpened her claws on it!

Give them a shout, only drawback is a 3-4 week wait last I checked.

I had some stitching fail at a zip on a 15 month old rab jacket last year. Returned it to them for warranty, just got a whole new jacket back. Good for me, bad for the planet and did look to be repairable.

Your jacket should be repairable if you send to Lancashire sport repairs or Scottish Mountain gear. Not the end of the world, although if the glued seam has come away it does seem bit shitty for Rab to reject the warranty.

SMG put a new main zip in a jacket for me last year - it's like brand new again (10 year Old gore tex jacket)

I know the answer to this (I have a mate who is a TSO) - on the basis of a saucepan I had whose handle fell off and wasn't replaced.

A lifetime warranty / guarantee is a marketing term with no real basis in law. It doesn't mean 'for ever' and we shouldn't expect it to, it means for the lifetime of the pan/jacket/item. Which then comes down to what an averagely normal person would expect a pan/jacket, etc to last for.

Which I and he agrees is a bit catch 22, so they'll repair or replace for as long as they say it can be, but if they say it can't then they deem it to have exceeded its lifetime, and it's up to you to argue that you reasonably expect it to last longer.

Depends too what kind of a life it's had.

I agree it's a bit rubbish, but to the OP, what is 'a number' of years and what does wearing it 'semi-regularly' entail. And reasonably would you (and me, and most others) have expected it to last longer?

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/apr/24/lifetime-guarantee-kohler-daryl

(the bottom bit, not the clearly misleading actual complaint)

Get in touch with Alpkit and their repair service.

Not sure about zips specifically but Patagonia do free repairs of any brand's outdoor stuff - they had a stall doing it at Kendal Mountain Festival and they do it at other locations apparently.

How old is this jacket? It does sound like they are happy to offer a replacement on newer stuff.

Manufacturing defects tend to show up early and the warranty isn't expected to cover wear and tear.

I agree Rabs attitude sucks but if its just a zip replacement either do it yourself (not exactly hard) or take it to any high street tailor or alterations service.

While it's crap, life is too short so just take it to a local shop, get a new zip put in and vote with your wallet.

Move on.

Out of interest, exactly how old is the jacket?

I am pretty good repairing things but I can’t see how I would repair this fault - see picture

https://imgur.com/gallery/2wUnus3

am pretty good repairing things but I can’t see how I would repair this fault – see picture

You don't, you take it to someone who can, if Rab won't do it.

As we know from bikes, lifetime warranties never actually are. All things wear and break eventually. A genuine lifetime warranty must be unsustainable for a business.

Rabs attitude sucks

Not really - we don't know how old/knackered the jacket is - and that seems to be why the guarantee hasn't been honored.

They don't have the ability to repair waterproof jackets in-house , despite what it says on their website (I agree THAT sucks, but that's not really an "attitude") - but they did refer the OP to a company who could do the repair for them.

I've never owned anything by Rab - but it doesn't seem like they have done anything particularly wrong here, other than exaggerating their claim that "there’s virtually no repair we can’t handle"

I think it’s 8 years old and in perfect condition.

https://imgur.com/gallery/2AattdW

other than exaggerating their claim that “there’s virtually no repair we can’t handle”

So apart from making highly misleading marketing statements that turn out to be complete BS, they haven't done anything wrong?

Repairing zips must be one of the most common repair services and they say they can't do it - it's poor. I bet they love to tout their eco credentials too.

I think it’s 8 years old

I'd certainly consider that less than a lifetime for a jacket. If they want to offer a 5 year warranty then they should call it that. Claiming a lifetime warranty is marketing BS in this instance. Up there with unlimited broadband that has a limit

I’d certainly consider that less than a lifetime for a jacket.

It's clearly within it's 'lifetime' because it looks perfect apart from the zip which definitely looks like a fault.

It's a Lifetime Warranty covering manufacturing defects. A zip that took "around" 8 years to develop a fault is more likely to be due to wear or mishandling.

“ It’s clearly within it’s ‘lifetime’ because it looks perfect apart from the zip which definitely looks like a fault.”

And that’s my point. It’s in great condition as we always look after our clothes really really well. Even if you argue the rubbish argument of the “lifetime of the product” then it’s still got many years left and the other zips work perfectly.

In all honesty if the jacket was otherwise pretty worn I probably wouldn’t have chased it as an issue as I do believe in “fair use” and if it has been worn day in day out I would have accepted it and probably bought another jacket without looking at what guarantee it had. It was only cos it had this fault I went to the RAB website and had a look if they had a repair facility and found it had a lifetime guarantee!

I'm currently warrantying a 6 month old Rab of Shield+ fabric for failing spectacularly.

I've had similar issues to OP with Patagonia a few years back - zip failed in about the same way within three years of purchase. I was told garment lifetime was less than than, and I could post to Portugal at my cost for repair. The lady on our high street bunged a new zip in for £20.

If anyone wants 'proper' outdoor kit repair, Scottish Mountain Gear is great. https://www.scottishmountaingear.com/

How the hell do you “mishandle” a zip? Open/close errr that’s it!

It doesn't look perfect to me, plenty of delamination starting to show. I would say it looks well used.

8 years of good use seems a reasonable enough lifetime to me for what is essentially a fancy plastic sheet.

I'd have it out with them in a polite but concise email. State their own statements as per their website. Can argue it's somewhat misleading. If that doesn't succeed, take it to Twitter. No company likes public limelight. Failing that, plenty of tailors and small shops that for zip repairs. They will take the whole zipper unit off and fit a new one. Although you have to go out of your way. I've never been attracted to Rab, will be staying away based on this story.

It might not be a manufacturing fault, but if it hasn’t been abused as per the OP’s claim, then that must be a design fault. At which point, they should apply good will and fix it.

I am pretty good repairing things but I can’t see how I would repair this fault – see picture

Measure length of zip and get a new one from ebay.

Unpick stitching and remove old zip.

Sew new zip in place.

It's easier than building a wheel with much less chance of cock up.

It might not be a manufacturing fault, but if it hasn’t been abused as per the OP’s claim, then that must be a design fault. At which point, they should apply good will and fix it.

Er, not really, did Rab design the zip?. Zips fail because of wear and tear, contaminants, and folk howking at them blindly forcing them up or down.

Personally, I don't think 8 years is bad, we demand lightweight breathable modern materials, they won't last as long. Another consideration is amount of use, if it's only been used 5 times a year, than that's not great. It's not black and white.

So apart from making highly misleading marketing statements that turn out to be complete BS, they haven’t done anything wrong?

Repairing zips must be one of the most common repair services and they say they can’t do it – it’s poor. I bet they love to tout their eco credentials too.

but even if they could do it - they would still charge - I assume about the same as the people they provided a link to. Their capability to repair (or not) isn't really the issue - the issue is whether the Jacket is within it's "lifetime".

8 years of semi-regular use is debatable IMO.

Life time warranty against manacturing faults. That's literally meaningless. Unless say the stitching is in the wrong place. They shouldn't be allowed to say it but surely we all know it means nothing

If i thought i'd get 8 years out of a Rab jacket i might have bought one. Back to Paramo for me

PS the obsession with light weight clothing for all uses seems wrong to me. It's never as durable which isn't great for the environmental

I had a problem with a pair of Haglof goretex trainers where the laces only lasted a year maybe 18 months but replacement laces unable to buy. They tell you to go to eBay or wherever and buy something similar to the blue with the white through them but couldn't find anything like them. The shoes lasted maybe another 6 months then one developed a large split between the leather and fabric
That's Haglof owned now by ASICS well off my list burning my fingers for £130

PS the obsession with light weight clothing for all uses seems wrong to me

Aye, I tend to agree in a lot of cases, I've a mate who's into his hillwalking and photography, moans about his jacket weighing 600g, but is 5'8", 17 stone and his camera kit weighs a metric ton. Needless to say he moans about clothing not being breathable! 🙂

I had a problem with a pair of Haglof goretex trainers where the laces only lasted a year maybe 18 months but replacement laces unable to buy. They tell you to go to eBay or wherever and buy something similar to the blue with the white through them but couldn’t find anything like them. The shoes lasted maybe another 6 months then one developed a large split between the leather and fabric
That’s Haglof owned now by ASICS well off my list burning my fingers for £130

Shoe life should be measured in miles, not time, I use strava to track my running shoes, 300 miles means about 3-4 months, trail shoes generally a bit longer.

Your story reinforces my use of Asics tbh, 2 years is brilliant.

I’ve had similar issues to OP with Patagonia a few years back – zip failed in about the same way within three years of purchase. I was told garment lifetime was less than than, and I could post to Portugal at my cost for repair. The lady on our high street bunged a new zip in for £20.

Just post at your cost or post and pay for repair?

They replaced a zip on a five or six-year-old jacket for me and I just had to get to to them somewhere in the EU (possibly Portugal) - was much less than £20 I know.

I use strava to track my running shoes

Is there a function for that in Strava?

I use ProBikeGarage for my bike stuff now and it's changed my life.

On their repair section it says something about 10 seasons so two years 'lifetime' for a presumably at least £200 jacket. Hmmm

It doesn’t look perfect to me, plenty of delamination starting to show.

Another defect? It doesn't look well used/abused to me there is no noticeable wear and tear anywhere else on the jacket that I can see.

As above though I'd probs just chalk it off to experience at this point.

Is there a function for that in Strava?

"My Gear" is the option you want - i think they have it for bikes and running

Once you’ve invested a season or ten creating landmark moments with your Rab clothing and equipment, you won’t want it to end – and with the Rab Service Centre, it doesn’t have to. Staffed by specialist technicians, many of whom worked alongside our founder Rab Carrington, at our original Sheffield premises, there’s virtually no repair we can’t handle. Great kit. Long-term performance. Zero wastage. More adventure. That’s what the Service Centre is all about.

If they aren't willing to suggest even a ballpark figure for lifetime of their products they shouldn't be allowed to use lifetime guarantee as a selling point, and they shouldn't be allowed to claim they can do nearly any repair but not be able to replace zips.

What tends to happen with these types of zips is that they have a tendency to snag a tiny section of the thin material behind and jam, and then the wearer usually can't see what has caused it to jam and gives it an almighty tug...and then that happens- hence the grey area as to whether it's a manufacturing fault or user error. I like Rab, I think they're one of the best outdoor brands out there, but its a bit lame for them not to have someone in their team who can offer this fairly basic repair, which for a jacket at this price point they could offer for a minimal fee.

I agree the marketing is misleading, but you have to be realistic in expectations. I've had loads of waterproofs, and they all wear out eventually. I include delamination after 8 years as wear and tear tbh. I wouldn't put money into a repair on that as I would expect it to start leaking at some point in the not too distant future.

“My Gear” is the option you want

Thanks, I had just been using that to track my EPO and testosterone intake.

Just as a counterpoint to demonstrate the RAB service being s*** (which I would agree it is), I have a Jansport rucksack with a lifetime guarantee.

It's not a super high end thing - probably cost £40 or so - and one of the (massive YKK) zips broke a few years ago. The bag must have been 10 years old at that point and had plenty of wear elsewhere.

I sent it to their repair centre in Germany (postage there and back at my cost admittedly), and they replaced the zip for free, no quibble at all. I didn't even need to try and find the receipt. That's how it should work.

Yep it’s a zip, they break. I’ve got 2 Rab jackets that are 10 years old and still going strong. Are you using it correctly?

Just as a counterpoint to demonstrate the RAB service being s*** (which I would agree it is), I have a Jansport rucksack with a lifetime guarantee.

It’s not a super high end thing – probably cost £40 or so – and one of the (massive YKK) zips broke a few years ago. The bag must have been 10 years old at that point and had plenty of wear elsewhere.

I sent it to their repair centre in Germany (postage there and back at my cost admittedly), and they replaced the zip for free, no quibble at all. I didn’t even need to try and find the receipt. That’s how it should work

Change JanSport to EastPack and I have a similar story.
Though when another zip went (after maybe 15 or 18 years of use) it was cheaper to take it to a local tailor so fix than to send it to Germany.

If they aren’t willing to suggest even a ballpark figure for lifetime of their products they shouldn’t be allowed to use lifetime guarantee as a selling point, and they shouldn’t be allowed to claim they can do nearly any repair but not be able to replace zips.

This is correct.
Manufacturers resorting to hyperbole to build a mental image of a warranty, then to deny that the common definition of that word is not the intention they were trying to convey should be made illegal, in my opinion.
At best it's disingenuous, at worst a bald faced lie. The companies using it deserve to be lumped in with Tucker Carlson and Fox News.

Sew new zip in place.

Understatement of the thread! I guess you could do it with a sewing machine? I'll always try and sew things myself but either I'm spectacularly fat-fingered or it isn't exactly a quick and easy skill, especially for something like a zip which I imagine would require some relative close, precise stitching to hold it in place?

I seem to wreck zips quickly, I definitely think there is some truth in the idea of 'mishandling'. My nice Howies commuter jacket in particular needs to be manipulated just so before it will close up.

I’ve got 2 Rab jackets that are 10 years old and still going strong.

So they shouldn't be delaminating after 8 then eh.

It’s the general dismissiveness of their replies that’s bothering me, as what they have said is opposite to what their website says.

Problem with paying for it to be fixed (I’ve had a look at prices) is that I don’t want to pay for it then get another problem a short time later as I may as well buy a brand new jacket. Seems the price to fix may be £30-40 and that’s a bit of a risk to take.

Doesn’t make me want to buy quality expensive gear again, I’ve had clothing last a lot longer than this jacket which has been worn a lot more in more demanding conditions and cost less. I don’t mind spending more to get quality and longevity but if you don’t actually get what you pay for what’s the point?

I still wear, very regularly, a Fox MTB gilet which I think I’ve had 20 years and it still looks like new! (Ish) 😂

“ I’ll always try and sew things myself but either I’m spectacularly fat-fingered or it isn’t exactly a quick and easy skill, especially for something like a zip which I imagine would require some relative close, precise stitching to hold it in place?”

Before I found it had a “lifetime” guarantee I had a look at the construction around the zip to see if I could fix it myself (we do repair a lot of things ourselves on clothes) and the current zip can’t be fixed and I couldn’t see how to remove the zip without destroying the jacket. I would assume the people who made it would know how to do it hence me going to their website to see if I could send it to them.

Am bored, so have made a 'nerd' observation...had you noticed that from the photo of the front of the jacket it appears that the material bonding section at the base of the RH pocket is on its way out anyway as its half gone. Those pucker sections in the tape or bonding delaminations will usually appear quite close to the end of a jackets lifetime, If it makes you feel better I've had similar jackets do this after 2-3 years of use - which in our delusional consumer society is closer to a products expected lifecycle from many consumers and manufacturers.

I agree it’s a bit crap and the blurb on website is completely bollocks.

Although given the situation, if you are that attached to it I’d just be taking it to the local tailor to fix.

Out of interest did you really buy it based on it having a life time guarantee?

Long story short, my wife had a lovely RAB waterproof jacket that cost us a LOT of money a number of years ago. One of the things that really drew us to it was the lifetime guarantee

But…

only cos it had this fault I went to the RAB website and had a look if they had a repair facility and found it had a lifetime guarantee!

Out of interest did you really buy it based on it having a life time guarantee?

Just one more thing ma'am.

Vote with your wallet + spread the negative word on social media.

It's the only way that companies offering substandard quality, overpriced kit will listen.

It was only when I went to the website and found the guarantee information that I remembered about it when we bought it. It’s something I always check (after working in retail you tend to be very switched on about after service!) but just had forgotten about.

“ Vote with your wallet + spread the negative word on social media.

It’s the only way that companies offering substandard quality, overpriced kit will listen.”

Yeah done that now. Going to forget about it now as I’ve done as much as I can. They clearly don’t care about product support in any way so just going to have to accept it.

Slightly tangential to this thread but I always seem to struggle with finding decent waterproof and breathable jackets. Only seem to last a couple of years before they start to leak and stop doing their waterproof job. Makes me hesitant to spend too much on a decent jacket yet most of the cheaper jackets don't really seem to be very waterproof either. Rather catch 22!

Problem with paying for it to be fixed (I’ve had a look at prices) is that I don’t want to pay for it then get another problem a short time later as I may as well buy a brand new jacket. Seems the price to fix may be £30-40 and that’s a bit of a risk to take.

I think the other thing has happened. It's delaminating so only worth a repair as a gardening jacket

Doesn’t make me want to buy quality expensive gear again, I’ve had clothing last a lot longer than this jacket which has been worn a lot more in more demanding conditions and cost less. I don’t mind spending more to get quality and longevity but if you don’t actually get what you pay for what’s the point?

I think that is the real tragedy here. High price just doesn't mean long life for most brands. It's all about a fast and light vibe. Great for alpnists and bike packers with the budget or sponsorship to replace stuff regularly. But as most of these products get used for a quick trip to waitrose it's daft and not sustainable.

Genuine question. In which branch of retail does life time guarantee mean life time guarantee?

It was only when I went to the website and found the guarantee information that I remembered about it when we bought it. It’s something I always check (after working in retail you tend to be very switched on about after service!) but just had forgotten about

Vote with your wallet + spread the negative word on social media.

The problem is everybody has a good story to balance out the bad. The OP had a bad experience with Rab, someone else found them good to deal with. Someone else on the thread was disappointed with Patagonia, but my wife just had her 7 year old coat replaced with a new one. My own personal "never again" is Jack Wolfskin after some terrible after care but I'm sure someone else found them great. The misleading marketing speak is pretty poor and quantifiable though so they can be rightly lambasted for that.

Genuine question. In which branch of retail does life time guarantee mean life time guarantee?

I worked with a guy who ran a small business making circus equipment. He offered a lifetime warranty and claimed it was his lifetime. If he was alive he'd repair or replace it, once he's dead you were on your own.

How much was it in the first place anyway?

Genuine question. In which branch of retail does life time guarantee mean life time guarantee?

Le Creuset for one

Le Creuset is proud of the workmanship in its products and guarantees its enamelled cast iron cookware, from the date of purchase, for the lifetime of the original owner, whether a self purchase or received as a gift.*

Is this the sort of think alpkit will take in and give a second life to?

TBH, 8 years out of a jacket seems pretty good going these days.

Edit:

Le Creuset for one

Cast iron jackets for everybody!

I would be miffed as well. Got plenty of 90's stuff that just refuses to die; North Face and Nike. They weren't silly expensive - I would never pay £400 for a plastic jacket. And if I did, by heck would I expect it to last more than 8 years. I would expect it to still look new.

8 years is nothing for a jacket really. And poor show to those that have been slagging the OP off. "You used the jacket as intended? My God man! What were you thinking!! This is a consumerist forum and we are happy to throw things away!"

Cast iron jackets for everybody!

Definitely waterproof, not sure about breathability.

Cast iron jackets for everybody!

Cast iron warranties anyway.

8 years is nothing for a jacket really.

I'm still using the yellow Mountain Equipment Denali Gore Tex that I bought in the mid/late 1990s. A bit of the lining got torn but it still does everything I need, with the odd re-proof. Ditto a burgundy Karrimor fleece of similar vintage.

The colours of both have kind-of come back in fashion again now too.

I'm not sure cast iron pans are a reasonable comparison. I've got bits of stone on my house that aren't as old as my inherited pans that have worn out quicker.

The problem is everybody has a good story to balance out the bad. The OP had a bad experience with Rab, someone else found them good to deal with

Undoubtedly - Rab fixed for free the shoulder seams on a jacket of mine - looked like damage from rucksack straps which I would have called wear and tear and been happy to pay for. I say "looked like" because it was like that when I bought it on ebay so I can't be sure but Rab fixed it anyway.
I'm not sure I'd expect the zip fixed under guarantee after several years use but the OP's right to be disappointed that Rab couldn't offer a repair in-house.

I am so sick of crap service and broken promises from manufacturers and retailers. Not a month goes by when I’m not complaining about something going wrong

Probably a slight exaggeration for effect but if true you're either very unlucky, make a lot of poor purchasing decisions or have some unreasonable expectations.

It’s the general dismissiveness of their replies that’s bothering me, as what they have said is opposite to what their website says.

Yes I found the same recently when I contacted Rab. Basically “now we have your money we don’t care”

Plenty of other companies to choose from, all of which use the same base fabrics to some degree so it’s a case of picking a fabric and then picking a jacket with that fabric that has the right fit and features.

I tend to ask a mate who’s worked for Mountain Rescue what they use. Admittedly they get a lot of kit donated but for obvious reasons anything not up to scratch gets binned quickly. His answer is almost always Paramo.

Good to find out about repairs, I have a 20? year old mountain hardware jacket where the zip has come away from the fabric (bonded not sewn). 5 month old bitey puppy means I'd prefer not to splash out on a new waterproof right now.

Slightly tangential to this thread but I always seem to struggle with finding decent waterproof and breathable jackets. Only seem to last a couple of years before they start to leak and stop doing their waterproof job. Makes me hesitant to spend too much on a decent jacket yet most of the cheaper jackets don’t really seem to be very waterproof either.

I don't think any waterproof jacket will keep you dry unless you are standing very still and there's no wind.

Moisture gets down the collar and up the sleeves. Even the most breathable jackets (Shakedry) will still get sweaty inside. I've revised my expectations, I now use waterproofs just to delay or prevent the sudden chilling from getting rain/downpours. I'll still get wet from sweat and drips getting in, but this cools me down far slower than getting completely drenched from not having a jacket. So long as I'm moving and wearing and appropriate baselayer (usually merino in the winter) I'll stay warm and comfortable.

Granted, if/when you stop and you're wet then you're going to cool down. I don't think there's any way to prevent this other than not sweating! Personally I keep meaning to get a packable down jacket or something for winter rides so if I'm forced to stop I can keep warm. Maybe even stash a dry base layer in a framebag!

Ring their Sales department. Enquire about a comparable jacket and then ask about their 'lifetime' guarantee and what they'd reasonably expect its lifetime to be. Compare and contrast.

This is a bit of a poor show from Rab, in contrast I bought a Paramo jacket in 2000, 10 years later the poppers were a bit 'lose' so I sent it back to them. They replaced the poppers, cleaned, reproofed and returned for free. They even apologised that they couldn't get an oil mark out.

The fabric on the back is getting a bit thin now after 20 years, I wonder if they'll replace the panel?

I'd keep banging the drum on the Lifetime Warrnaty thing, it was a key selling point. In Plain English a 'Lifetime Guarantee' suggests that, the lifetime of the owner, not some arbitrary lifetime that they deem as being a fair lifetime.

“ I’ll always try and sew things myself but either I’m spectacularly fat-fingered or it isn’t exactly a quick and easy skill, especially for something like a zip which I imagine would require some relative close, precise stitching to hold it in place?”

Before I found it had a “lifetime” guarantee I had a look at the construction around the zip to see if I could fix it myself (we do repair a lot of things ourselves on clothes) and the current zip can’t be fixed and I couldn’t see how to remove the zip without destroying the jacket. I would assume the people who made it would know how to do it hence me going to their website to see if I could send it to them.

OK, so the teeth have separated from the zip carrier. It's a waterproof zip which is good in some respects as it's stiffer so easier to control, but harder to get the needle through. You need to unpick the stitching between the really dark purple bit (zip carrier) and the light purple jacket fabric. The whole zip will just fall out. The only awkward part sewing it back in is if there is a lining as well as you have to line up the lining, zip and outer fabric. It's easier with a needle rather than a sewing machine, but not as neat. Pin it roughly in place first to keep it in line.

Take your time, wear a thimble to push the needle through, and it'll be done in an hour.

60cm Waterproof zips are less than £4 on Amazon. Seriously it's much easier then you think it'll be.

In Plain English a ‘Lifetime Guarantee’ suggests that, the lifetime of the owner, not some arbitrary lifetime that they deem as being a fair lifetime.

It's always of endless fascination when working in a retail environment selling goods covered by 'lifetime warranties' that there is still such a predominant misunderstanding amongst the general public of what one actually means. They may exist for some heavy duty once in a lifetime purchase products (can't think of many, if any, of those) but no brand I have ever dealt with has ever offered a warranty for the lifetime of the original owner. It's for the realistic lifecycle of the product, which many are severely disappointed when they find out how short that actually is.

Case in point which many will be familiar with...you find a crack in the BB of a top end road race frame covered by a 'lifetime' warranty, but it's over 5 years old. On a product that is designed for a race team to run for a season or two at most, the owner may not have used it that much in that timescale but some riders would have equally destroyed it. Whether the customer gets any joy out of that may be as much down to whether the warranty department guy has had a good breakfast or not, and I've had requests turned down for that scenario...but have also seen brands go way beyond what is necessary to support a customer even way beyond a reasonable time scale, though this as probably more about what they have lying around in stock that they can afford to give away...