[Closed] Quoted for work, and told it would take 2 people, two days, but.......

Result, so you should pay about an eighth of the quoted labour rate then 😉

Did they break the quote down or was it just '£x to do the whole job'?

well did you get a quote or an estimate and was it itemised? we give fixed price quotes and a detailed timeline ( easiest thing in the world with paste and copy)
i would nt pay if i had a fixed price quote with detail but without you only have your word against thiers equally so do they.. and .. i believe distance selling rules apply so you have 7 days to reject the work in full if it started less than 7 days from initial contact.....

You could also say that you were led to believe it was 4 'man days' work and that you feel the job wasn't done poperly if one bloke did it in half a day. Ask them to send an inspector out to go over it with you.

I am working on it, however they now claim that they never said it would take two people, two days, even though I have two witnesses to the conversation,one independent, that he was actually there 8 hours (6 people can confirm he wasn't) and that the bloke doing it was much younger than the usual guy, so must have moved around quicker........... to which I pointed out if one person takes sixteen hours to do a three hour job then he must have something seriously wrong with his mobility.

I will double check the quote, but I think it was £x for the job, after a verbal conversation (with witnesses) to confirm how much work it was.

I wouldn't usually kick up that much of a fuss but it works out at £320 an hour including materials!

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? 😉

LoL, wouldn't have minded if it was, as even the gyppo's wouldn't rob you this badly, and still claim to be whiter than white. However this is a national firm, with PCA membership.

I know woodworm/damp treatment is snake oil of the highest order but the mortgage company added it as a condition of the mortgage agreement 🙁

They are going to investigate it, and call me back, and if they don't knock at least 50% off I am going to ask for the complaints form, and mention I am going to also contact the PCA.

I wouldn't bank on getting a result through PCA. Its a trade body setup to protect its members, not its members customers!

[b]2. I have a dispute with a member of the PCA. What is your complaints procedure?[/b]

Generally speaking, we can only get involved in complaints relating to the quality of work or technical issues -[u]we cannot comment on any financial or legal disputes you may have[/u]. If you have a problem with a PCA member you must, in the first instance, discuss the issue with the company in question. The majority of issues are resolved in these initial communications. If you are not happy with the response received from the contractor, you must then formalise your grievances in writing to the company, detailing your complaint fully. We would advise sending your letter by recorded delivery so you can be certain it has reached its destination, and stating in the letter that you would like a response within 7-10 days. If you do not receive a reply, or are still unhappy with the response from the company, you may then send a written complaint into the PCA including all relevant correspondence and paperwork. Your complaint will be acknowledged within 7 days and then investigated by the PCA.

Good luck though.

What did the other quotes say ?

around the same money really, however they quoted before all the ceiling were down, and floorboards were up. So its not an apple for apples comparison (plus it seems to be impossible to get two companies to quote for exactly the same thing).

My main issue is the taking the piss timescale they used to justify the price, where in reality the bloke turned up at 9.30, and was driving down the road after packing up for 15 minutes at 11.30.

Question - what if it had taken 2 people, 3 days? Would you have stumped up the extra?

We are in a very different line of business, but a fixed fee quote is just that - if you agreed to the fixed fee. If it takes longer, your gain, if it takes less, contractor's gain...

Different matter if it has taken less time because corners have been cut.

around the same money really, however they quoted before all the ceiling were down, and floorboards were up.

So did the company which did the work also quote before all the ceiling were down, and floorboards were up ?

If not, that should have made you suspicious. I'm sorry cause I know it's not helping, but I would have asked for a new quote after the ceilings were down and the floorboards up, if presumably that saved them a lot of work.

So did the company which did the work also quote before all the ceiling were down, and floorboards were up ?

they were the only ones to quote when everything was taken down/up and were the last hurdle to getting the retention hence I just wanted it sorted, and didn't get the others back to requote 😡

rkk01 - Member
Question - what if it had taken 2 people, 3 days? Would you have stumped up the extra?
We are in a very different line of business, but a fixed fee quote is just that - if you agreed to the fixed fee. If it takes longer, your gain, if it takes less, contractor's gain...
Different matter if it has taken less time because corners have been cut.
POSTED 10 MINUTES AGO #

Could not agree more

Could not agree at all. The quotation was based upon an expectation of labour requirement. That requirement was grossly over estimated, and so it is logical to say that the price was too. In laymans terms, you've been ripped off.

Question - what if it had taken 2 people, 3 days? Would you have stumped up the extra?

Wouldn't a better comparison been, what if it had taken 2 people 8 days, as that would be a factor of 4 times more, rather than four times less.

In that case if it was any normal builder a discussion would have happen and they would have been paid more, as long as they were working full days and actually working when on site, I don't have a problem with people earning a living, but £320 per hour, seems like a crazy rate.

Could not agree at all. The quotation was based upon an expectation of labour requirement.

Well, what was it then... was it time and expense - ie based on a labour hourly rate and No of hours taken, or fixed fee / lump sum???

Seems like you want it both ways... time and expense if it ends up being simpler (or completed quickly and efficiently) AND lump sum to protect you from the risk of the job being more complex / taking longer...

I go back to my original caveat - if corners have been cut, then you may well have been ripped off.

they were the only ones to quote when everything was taken down/up

😐 I would have said, "**** off, I was quoted about that before the ceilings were taken down and the floorboards taken up". I would have thought that the bulk of the work lay in that, not that I know anything about the job of course. BTW the use of expletives is important in such circumstances.

Put it down to experience.

Well, what was it then... was it time and expense - ie based on a labour hourly rate and No of hours taken,

Well, what was it then... was it time and expense - ie based on a labour hourly rate and No of hours taken, or fixed fee / lump sum???

I was told it would take two people, two days, hence the price is X.

Where in reality it took 1 person, 3 hours, and the price was still X.

If for example I was quoted the original price for three hours work, I wouldn't have accepted the price, as £320 per hour seems like an outrageous hourly rate to me.

As for if there were any complications, or I would have had to pay for that as well (caveat in the contract), not that there could have been a lot of complications as they were spraying timber with wood worm treatment in a stripped out house, with all the ceilings down and every 4th floorboard up as requested.

I am chalking it up to experience tbh, but I am making them squirm.

I have a certain amount of sympathy for the OP here.

Sometimes when quoting for a job, instead of quoting a per sqm rate, I'll work out in my head how much time it'll take (eg. hallways, kitchens, bathrooms), and therefore how much I'd expect to make. The client nearly always asks me how long I think I'll take, which is a fair question IMO. I give a rough estimate, always with the caveat that that's the longest I think I'll take...but that I'll do my best to be out of their hair as soon as possible.

Usually I'm pretty accurate. But, occasionally the job will go well and I'll finish a day early. I don't offer a discount if I do. Also, I don't try to charge extra if it takes me a day longer. You win some, you lose some.

However, if I told a client with would take me four days to do a job, then rocked up Monday morning and was gone by lunchtime, I'd sort of expect them to say "You're taking the piss aren't you?" If the job was quoted with the explicit idea that the cost was being derived from days x no. of men, then I think the OP has every right to say "Either you were taking the piss or the job hasn't been done properly".

I would ask him for a revised quote/invoice taking into account the gross over estimation that was first given.

Tell you've paid them for 4 man-days - ask them to send someone round for the extra 3 1/2 days, just to sit on site and scratch their ar$e if necessary 😉

that's one option 🙂

Tell them they haven't finished the job - you're still waiting for them to re-tack the ceilings and replace the floorboards.

Add "what's your game mate" ..... that always works well.

Tough one, if they've quoted you a price then that's the price IMO. If the amount of hours required was verbal and the written quote was just a price for the job then I doubt you'll have any recourse. Hard to accept but you might have to chalk it up.

I had the ceilings skimmed on a house I bought some years ago, had a couple of quotes, the first was a bit of a geezer but he said him and his mate would have it done in 2 or 3 days (can't remember which). The other was for similar money with one man taking a week, I was in a hurry so went for the geezer. Imagine my surprise when he turned up with 5 mates and they knocked it out in a day! Completely irrelevant to you I know but shows they're not all thieving gypsies (apologies to any gypsies I may have offended).

Is there not some kind of standard rule book that can be used as a guide?
Such a thing existed in the motor trade to prevent this kind of thing and it did make allowances for unusual/difficult jobs.
I would assume the tradesmen looked at the job in order to make the quote, the tradesmen were aware of any pottential problems.
Any trade body that you could take it up with?

going to see what they say, and if they attempt to BS me again, I will write a letter of complaint and contact trading standards.

Other than that, I will just chalk it up to experience.

There are some "services" where you might for example pay for someone's "company" for a fixed time and still the job might be over much quicker than you expected. I don't think you can ask for a refund then either.

I'd spend a bit of time fighting it. Just refuse to pay and explain why. Threaten to contact Watchdog 😉

It's surely the only downside of a fixed but firm quote. I.e we'll do that, for this much.

Whether their quote was a fair one is a decision you make when you accept it.

I'm in quite a good situation, that on the occasions that I have got it wrong, then the business is big enough to pick up the work and not try and charge the customer extra, we do the job for what was agreed, but on the other hand, when we've cocked up and over quoted a job, then I always issue a new quote for how much it should have been in for the time and materials it took.

Whether their quote was a fair one is a decision you make when you accept it.

But you can't be expected to know if it's fair or not, surely?

But you can't be expected to know if it's fair or not, surely?

As explained above, I don't subscribe to this way of working, On the rare occasion we're way over the top, I re quote. But when I built my extension, I wanted one company to take on the job, manage it and give me a finished house, which they did, for a fixed price. The only extra payments were things omitted from the price at the very start, i.e tiles/tiling and floor coverings. I had my opportunity then to get as many quotes as I saw fit. The builders reputation actually made me go with him in the end, rather than getting the job done as cheaply as possible.

I personally would requote the job, if I'd been that far out to start with. But that's me, and I have some quite happy customers out there!

You needed a job done

He gave you a price

You at the time thought the job was worth that much

You accepted by having him come do the work

He did the work to the relevant standard

Wether he turned up with 27 trained monkeys or half a man in a wheel chair it's irrelevant really

He gave you a price
You at the time thought the job was worth that much

Based on the idea that it would take two people two days to complete.

As it oy took one person 3 hours to complete, he was totally mislead into believing the quote was fair.

It's pretty simple really, he was conned into accepting the quote by being told it was far more work than it actually was.

If the people defending this type of tactic are self employed, I hope you never get featured on watchdog or rogue traders.

When you get an expert in to give you a quote, it's reasonable to expect that that expert will use his experienced judgement to give you a fair price and to tell you how long it might take. I can't believe people here think the OP should just suck it up when clearly the bloke has taken the piss. Blatantly.

Mind you, I've never got the mindset of those that completely shit clients over (that you see on Rogue Traders, etc.). Clearly I need to be a bit more ruthless. 🙂

When dealing with tradesmen te golden rule is get a few quotes in ....

I'm not defending this behaviour, I think I've made that clear. Whether the OP has a chance of reducing the bill is a different matter though.

If there's a quite available, itemising what the contractor will supply, then great. If its a but if paper with the equivalent of 'supply and fit xyzzy' he's probably reliant of the company having an kind of good sense or moral about them.

But you can't be expected to know if it's fair or not, surely?

Well apparently the quote he settled for, which was based on completely unrestricted access, was about the same as all the quotes he received which were based on heavily restricted access.

That should have triggered alarm bells off that it wasn't a 'fair price'.

Plus if you get half dozen quotes which are all about the same then that would suggest that it's the going rate, and therefore 'fair'.

Unless of course you think the market doesn't know best. In which case you need to organise a revolution, rather than a re-fund.

If the people defending this type of tactic are self employed, I hope you never get featured on watchdog or rogue traders.

Nope, major corporation.

And, Nope, I'm not defending sharp practice. If the OP feels he has been ripped off, he should challenge the supplier.

HOWEVER, fixed price / lump sum puts the risk onto the contractor, and they need to price that risk, legitimately, in their bid. We frequently have scenarios where clients demand a fixed price bid. It's complex work, normally with a degree of uncertainty, so we need to give justification for those costs - ie x hours, y £/hr, z sub contract. If costs were to go above the bid price, we would have to ask for more budget, or suck it up. (I would much prefer to bid on a time and cost basis.....)

Many clients are entirely reasonable and open to negotiate a revised cost. Others, less so.

On the other hand, if the costs are less than the bid cost, who should benefit from the efficient delivery? Preferably, both parties should share the benefit. Is it fair and equitable for a client to want the risk certainty of a fixed price and then screw the supplier down to actual costs if they can deliver more effiently?

(fwiw this does seem to be an example of a piss take)

How is it possible for an [i]experienced[/i] contactor to be so inaccurate in the quotation process?

Was this a new mortgage on a property you already lived in or were you moving into a new property. If the later and it was a requirement following a survey I would have expected the vendor to meet the cost.

Fixed price job eh?
You're pay for the end result not the man hours unless you get a full breakdown showing materials, hourly rate, expected time for the job and of course VAT then you actually have something in writing to contest.
Did you get any of that in your quote?
Or just a price and some verbal?

might be worth reading woodworm treatment container, does it need more than one coat? if so can it be re-coated so quickly, did it need drying time. might have some form of argument if they have not followed manufactures instructions.

You get quotes. You chose the cheapest price.You give them an order based on this price. The work has been done.You pay the bill.
Simple

You get quotes. You chose the cheapest price.You give them an order based on this price. The work has been done.You pay the bill.

OP you're just butthurt because someone who didn't even go to university made a load of money from you 🙂

Just for the record I had something similar once. Got quotes for a job, priced based on hours, guys come in and do it in way less time. Phoned and said that something was up and they halved the bill. Always worth asking.

on the flip side, ive been working away from home last week so did ten days work in seven by working 9 till 7 instead of 9 till 4 and now my customer is saying im over charging asking for the ten day price. im too tired to argue, 10hrs of laying stone a day is no easy feat

If the quote was for 2 men/2 days and it took 1 man/3hrs I'd be asking myself has the job even been done properly.

For all the company know the workman was onsite at your house for 2 days when in reality he may have been sat at home with his feet up pulling a fast one.

Plenty of cowboys trying to beat the system.

[quote=nealglover]If the people defending this type of tactic are self employed, I hope you never get featured on watchdog or rogue traders.

[quote=rkk01]Nope, major corporation.

Fair enough.

[quote=rkk01]And, Nope, I'm not defending sharp practice.

So what I said doesn't apply to you then, but thanks for quoting it and replying anyway 😉