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I’m reluctantly at this stage myself, employer has been cruising on goodwill for too long now and enough people have left and not been replaced that we can’t realistically pick up the slack anymore. Management are hiding behind us from our clients and that’s the point where I checked out because I’m not covering for their problems forever.
Good use of the word "reluctantly". Theres a stereotype of lazy workers, especially in the civil service, but whether its been private or public sector, most people I've worked with want to deliver a good product/service, will do a bit more to do so, but the feeling of having your goodwill constantly exploited has worn many people down.
I’ve never understood salaries. If you’re contracted for 160 hours per month, or whatever
I'm not contracted for a certain number of hours. It just says I have to be flexible. I don't know how I'd even count how many hours I actually work since I am usually mucking about at the same time.
but the feeling of having your goodwill constantly exploited has worn many people down.
Stuff like a company deciding it doesn't want private use of company vehicles anymore despite being in our contracts.
Ok, I pay less tax and no longer answer the work phone after 5pm. Or agree to short notice overtime unless it suits me.
I give it my full 30%
New to that game. Or. A short memory ? Truckers T+c have been in decline for years and they reached crisis point to get you in that position Of being able to name your price – it hasn’t always been that way.
I can't exactly name my price, I'm on a fairly average hourly rate, although I'm only doing 100 miles/2.5 hours actual driving and sleeping for 1.5 hours in a 6 to 7 hour shift.
I passed my HGV test in 1995 and worked as a mechanic until recently, only doing a bit of driving as emergency cover. It's only the last couple of years I've been driving full (part) time.
Reading some of the replies here, there's a lot of conflict between staff and management. I work for a family firm with about 60 employees and avoid all that. I negotiate directly with one of the owners/directors and it's all done on good terms.
I wonder if it's possibly more prevalent after COVID . Where I worked during COVID we felt like we were treated terribly, it was used as an opportunity to by the company to permanently rip up T and C's and effectively fire and rehire their workforce whilst leaving management alone . Any goodwill , and there wasn't a lot before , was gone and people just shut off and stopped caring .
It's not complicated , treat people well and you'll get more out of them .
treat people well and you’ll get more out of them
It's amazing how people in power just don't get this.
A large %age Working for global megacorps probably has something to do with that.
The man setting the targets rarely sees those doing the doing.
treat people well and you’ll get more out of them
Don’t be coming round here with your mad, revolutionary agitating!
Don’t be coming round here with your mad, revolutionary agitating!
This is so true, speapking as an ex-middle manager running a tech support team, 24/7
There's a documentary I occasionally watch about a Nuclear Safety Inspector in Springfield who's been quietly quitting/loafing for years.
@Caher, Smithers, or carl and lenny
CBA today, back from a week in the sun and wondering if my bike is thinking about me,
It’s not complicated , treat people well and you’ll get more out of them .
I work for a charity.
Our pay and pension payments are low. Our hours can be long.
But, and we are not perfect, we treat people with respect, care and awareness that a job is only part of peoples lives. We aim to be a diverse and open organisation. We expect a lot - but trust, train and support our team to achieve that. We try our best to make systems simple and workable. We ask folk to assist with developing our new projects, to step in and help colleagues. We try to communicate like grown adults and involve colleagues in decisions.
We run the All Blacks 'no dickheads here' type rule.
Our last staff survey was over 98% 'happy' staff on every question we asked - and we have many team who arrive and stay for many years.
The one thing I wish we could do is persuade some of our funders to up their rates so we could pay our staff more - we work with central government, Postcode and National Lottery and they are an example where funding rates have not increased in a decade for salaries & pensions.
inkster
Free MemberI read an article in the Economist that said UK productivity was the lowest of the G12, excluding Russia (though I read the article last year so things could have changed since then…)
The bottom line is worker productivity is really difficult to measure, in fact it's borderline impractical. So instead, we have metrics that don't actually measure productivity, or even really attempt to. They measure sorta kinda related things, that have the benefit of being easy to measure. And that's fine, til you turn it around and try and make real world productivity decisions based on them, which is what ALWAYS happens because of course it does.
I enjoyed seeing that RSA video again - definitely helped my motivation to prepare for the job interviews I've got lined up to get out of this ****ing job i'm in right now!
The bottom line is worker productivity is really difficult to measure, in fact it’s borderline impractical. So instead, we have metrics that don’t actually measure productivity, or even really attempt to. They measure sorta kinda related things, that have the benefit of being easy to measure.
Corporate productivity makes more sense - i.e. if your workers are better enabled or motivated to do their jobs, and management doesn't employ people who don't contribute, then the company could be said to be more productive. However there are a great many other factors that affect that. The major one being that not all jobs are supposed to create money.
My company is going through it's third merger in 6 years. Each time the company gets bigger, there is less employee perks. I've heard similar from friends and family with their companies. So I think that employees retaliating by doing less is very understandable.
Anyone heard of 'dirty protests' at work?
I've heard about excrement being smeared all over an offices toilet walls, around bonus time. This was in a corporate bank's fancy office block too.
People are a strange bunch.
Of being able to name your price – it hasn’t always been that way.
T's & C's went south for the drivers in the 90's. The ones I knew then were on £40k or more. This was reduced to around £23k and I pointed out that this was going to bite the company at some point in the future.
Now Drivers have the whip hand again as do time-served LGV maintenance staff as those people had to have the requisite licence to check their work and 2 years ago most of them went driving as it paid better. I am willing to bet Greggs baked goods of choice that the pattern will be repeated because manglement in this country are incapable of seeing beyond the next quarter's numbers on the balance sheet.
I quiet quit years ago, when I ended up with an incompetent spineless bullshitter as a manager, who's only response to our regional manager asking him to jump, was to knock himself out on the roof without even questioning why he was to jump.
I just played the long game, done the minimum, and just let his decisions tighten the noose, although I did give it a bit extra tighten whenever the opportunity arose (which was quite regular).
Thankfully he got bumped elsewhere.
Portland, Oregon, was where young people went to retire in the early 2010s. There might be better places now.
Anyone heard of ‘dirty protests’ at work?
I’ve heard about excrement being smeared all over an offices toilet walls, around bonus time. This was in a corporate bank’s fancy office block too.
@didnthurt - would those fancy corporate banks offices be in Chester by any chance?
Because I mentioned in an earlier post about a corporate gas-chamber I briefly freelanced in and that happened in there and ‘corporate bank’s fancy office block’ exactly fits the description
And no… it wasn’t me 😂
You lucky, lucky people with B grade managers, ours is the crud from under the mess room fridge as all the good managers took voluntary redundancy in the restructure when they saw how under resourced our site was going to be.
I've been stepping back from all the stuff my old line manager used to do as it turns out there is no development, support and definitely no paying me my old managers grade. Certainly fed up of having to guide project managers several tiers above me that seem to lack basic life skills like breathing with their mouth shut or putting the milk in the fridge.
The manager has no idea what I am (or not) upto and I see a vicar more than my manager the last 2.5 years despite not going to church or being at all religious.
I have an additional role that takes me to sites around the country which just rubs in that it is a local management thing rather than an organisational thing. Senior management just don't want to know. They are not for the changing, so I am making exit plans.
If I look busy in the office, I'm probably searching and applying for jobs 😄
I'm contracted for 40 hours a week. If I work more I put more on my timesheet. I ain't working for free and don't expect my team to. We work about 50:50 site and office. As soon as we step out the door the clock is ticking. On nights we get a shift paid not the hours worked (if under 8), over 8 we claim more.
My team are required to work a certain number of disrupted weeks and disrupted weekends (night shifts) but we get elevated rates on top of our basic. Or if we're not fussed for the extra cash we can take time off midweek.
@didnthurt, I know that happened at least once in RBOS at Gogarburn and also for HBOS at Teviot, was it one of those 2? (my brother noticed that the dates lined up perfectly with when Benny The Mad Shagger left RBOS and went to HBOS...)
IMO we have been given a vison of the future according to business people.
It goes something like this. We make lots and lots of money, pay little to no tax, while you silly bastards (should of tried harder at school and made more of your life) earn minimum wage and should be bloody grateful for that small mercy you disgusting little rental plebs.
Shown their hand and what!
The only way forward 😉 is to resist the American culture and everything about it.
A lot of you are misunderstanding what "quiet quitting" is. It's not just "doing what you're paid for" or even "work to rule", it's doing the absolute bare minimum to avoid getting fired immediately, in the expectation that eventually you'll get binned and that's no great loss because it was a crap job.
Why don’t people on salary do that?
Because they (mostly) spend a huge amount of time doing absolutely sod all already! Between the chitchats and the coffee and the peeing and the meetings and the emails...
A lot of you are misunderstanding what “quiet quitting” is. It’s not just “doing what you’re paid for” or even “work to rule”, it’s doing the absolute bare minimum to avoid getting fired immediately,
That's what you believe it to mean. There is no misunderstanding on my part.
"How Quiet Quitting Works
In a September 2022 Harvard Business Review article aimed at explaining the quiet quitting phenomenon to worried executives, professors Anthony C. Klotz and Mark C. Bolino observed, “Quiet quitters continue to fulfill their primary responsibilities, but they’re less willing to engage in activities known as citizenship behaviors: no more staying late, showing up early, or attending non-mandatory meetings.”
From: https://www.investopedia.com/what-is-quiet-quitting-6743910
We found out yesterday that we are blocked from moving on level transfers to other teams.
That prompted a lot of "prisoner" GIFs on the groupchat, an even further dip in morale and a suggestion we should refer ourselves to the modern slavery team.
People are just saying **** it, I am not going to take this shit anymore, people who have histories of grafting throughout their lives are realising it has got them nowhere, and are returning the “loyalty” that their employers have shown them.
Amen, brother!
Me and a mate are grade 7 at a Russel Group University.
Students were complaining to me about the marking boycott (understandably, given what they've paid!).
My mate is barely keeping his head above water on 40k a year (single parent).
He's gonna be totally ****ed when he has to remortgage next year, so bankers can upsize their superyachts?
I live in Spain the rest of the year, but coming back and working FT here seems very unattractive.
40k barely covers the essentials now. No idea how people survive on minimum wage.
The Vice is on 500+ p/a with a free luxuy car and a house thrown in.
Country needs a revolution, can't see it happening any time soon!
I left the corporate world 15 years ago after being exposed to the American work ethos. My epiphany was, if i'm expected to work longer and longer hours to raise more billable services i shall be doing it for myself, thats exactly what i did.
Without sounding patronising or condescending, i find it really sad to read some of the posts on here about the attitude to this quiet quitting and work. I wonder if the same people who QQ are the same that stay in unhappy relationships through fear of finding something better? Life is short, go and do something that makes you want to get up in a morning. Don't waste your time and energy with this QQ nonsense. There are loads of companies that embrace and look after their staff, go and find them!
citizenship behaviors
Ah, so now quiet quitters are considered 'asocial'?
Lot of interesting language getting thrown about to describe people who don't live to work.
Even though I agree 100% with the sentiment, maybe it's easier said than done?
In Spain (sorry to keep going on about it), I work freelance and don't really enjoy it but I clock a few hours a day and the rest of the day I'm either out cycling or catching up with friends over a few beers and a tapa. Life for sure is getting more expensive in Spain, but nowhere like the UK. I work four to five hours a day and enjoy the rest of my day.
In short, I feel like I'm working to live (well) in Spain, whereas in the UK, it's working to live — a daily grind which no longer even maintains your quality or standard of living. Most things I do well enough for someone to pay me I don't particulary enjoy doing, and all the things I do enjoy doing no one would pay me to do.
However, it's a pretty good balance. I think that balance in the UK is rapidly becoming unsustainable for millions of people. Most people simply can't afford to take out three years or whatever to retrain or start at the bottom rung of a salary, even if they did enjoy the work.
In Spain (sorry to keep going on about it), I work freelance
Great but not all professions can do that. And they don't always pay well enough to allow you to do that. Large numbers of people in the UK are on the breadline even working full time.
Life is short, go and do something that makes you want to get up in a morning. Don’t waste your time and energy with this QQ nonsense.
not that simple when there’s a mortgage to pay and kids to look after. The only thing that would truly make me want to get up on a morning would be not working at all. That or doing something that genuinely makes a difference to the lives of others with no bullshit, KPI’s, OKR’s and other such nonsense involved. In the meantime I’ll just carry on with the grind like 99% of other people I know
Probably all coincides with having a conservative government in power.
Life is short, go and do something that makes you want to get up in a morning. Don’t waste your time and energy with this QQ nonsense. There are loads of companies that embrace and look after their staff, go and find them!
Far too simplistic I'm afraid, there's simply not enough jobs around for everyone to do something they love. I would probably find a lot more satisfaction in my job if the workload wasn't what it was, as it is everything is a frantic race to meet deadlines, no training, any progression or development has to be made in personal time etc. etc.
I also think issues like this are endemic rather than specific to certain companies, I've moved three times in two years and it's just as bad everywhere. I still haven't figured out what the common factor is but I have a horrible feeling it's mostly salaried office roles (although I'm also worried that my CV/interview skills oversell my abilities! 😂).
Still looking to change, just wondering how I can afford the 20% (minimum.. ) cut in salary that seems to be the going rate for any remotely sideways move.
I'd love to do something more interesting. had a chat about a new role yesterday....to move was a 25% drop in salary. to maintain our current living standards I need circa 30% increase in salary.
no prospects in current role, but has the safety of a years redundancy should they kick me out
feel trapped. can't risk the house ot the kids. if it was just me I'd have left rhe uk years ago. it just seems to be going down the toilet
I also think issues like this are endemic rather than specific to certain companies
They may be, my world experience is rather limited but who I work for seem to be keen to spend the training budget (internal and external) and develop people. It's also not an expectation that people work more than their hours. There are decent companies out there.
I've noted that expectations of roles have gone up
Budgets for hiring for those roles have gone down.
I'm seeing senior jobs that would have been my next progression coming on for about 80% of pre COVID rates. And far too inline with my current salary to consider taking on more nonsense.
I'm also seeing equal roles to what I do on offer for about 75% of pre COVID offer rates so I won't be moving sideways either..
The same people are moaning there are no skilled people on offer.
As lamp says if that's what they are offering with little /no negotiation room
I could see my self going contracting....but even that's not as lucrative as pre COVID - cut to about 60% of pre COVID rates.
All the while costs are going up. Did I mention all the moaning about lack of skilled people ?
I could see my self going contracting
Funny, I've noticed recruiters are now pushing this, the rates look good (an additional £35k gross to cover holidays/pension/sick etc. assuming you get full time hours) but what appeals to me is that I've seen how companies deal with contract employees and they're actually forced to manage them properly and give them specific tasks and deadlines, rather than just leaving them to sink or swim whilst dealing with the daily nonsense that is becoming the norm on our projects.
I just wonder how guaranteed the hours are...
I had a about 2 years of good money but that involved being away 6 months of the year but in the race to recruit all the new employees got better deal and all the good interesting work plus more support. All just pre covid
Similar to trail_rat I look around and all the contracting roles have dried up the market either wants a world leader super duper developer / engineer or a graduate.
I'm on my second job since beginning of COVID and the companies seem to want to kill any motivation with dull work, pointless meetings. This that seem to be popular love vacuous talking, love pompous language and titles and procedures. Fake flexibility.
I personally massively regret the career choice I made when young as while it was on when young the dead end you end up in mid career is the killer.
what appeals to me is that I’ve seen how companies deal with contract employees and they’re actually forced to manage them properly and give them specific tasks and deadlines, rather than just leaving them to sink or swim whilst dealing with the daily nonsense that is becoming the norm on our projects.
This is also what I am pondering. Bit pissed off at work at the moment, considering contracting purely for this reason. Nothing to do with the money (which is definitely not as attractive as it once was, at least in IT)
feel trapped. can’t risk the house ot the kids.
Its the "feeling trapped" that is crushing so many.
Two years till youngest (probably) goes to uni, 5 till she would graduate. Would love to step back somehow, but need to be able to provide her with the same support we have been able to give her brother.
My goal is to increase my skills now as a permie and when the kids leave home try high rate contracting. Fortunately I am gaining skills at a fair rate of knots in my current role which is good. If I can keep it.
If Trail rat does what I think he does his contract rates would be no higher than what's paid to a perm employee, but without the pension , insurance and other stuff that perm staff get.
Contract work is not always a golden land in the distance , over the horizon