[Closed] Quick vaccine question.

Trust?

Just because people say they've done doesn't mean they have

Probably down to storage and handling? You can only remove them from the fridge/freezer so many times.

I can pick up 8 self-injection syringes of diabetes meds and that's enough for 8 weeks.

With the vaccine, you would need one pen per person. Which by the time you've ticked them off a list it's probably easier just to jab them.

Also the (low) risk of complications Vs the same meds every week (both in terms of a bad reaction and the competence of the person administering it, I've f****d up those pens forgetting to take the cap off whilst tired and I'm used to it.

Also the production. I'm guessing the single-use pens are quite a niche product. You would need to find a factory that can make and fill them (Vs generic syringes and vials which are ubiquitous).

1) What's the point? Save time by posting doses out? Even the Oxford needs to be stored in a controlled environment. We're giving it out as fast as we can produce it already.

2) Anaphylaxis, a tiny number of people will go into shock having been given their vaccine, you need someone with training on hand to help those who do.

3) Training, why go through all the trouble of showing how to do it, if you only need to do it twice? It's not efficient.

There will be other reasons.

The vaccine has to go into a muscle to be fully 'processed' into the body.

A significant number of the population would fail to administer a pill correctly, never mind an injection.

Might be complications regarding distributing the vaccine too. It has to be kept super chilled and they go off after a certain time.

So you need to make sure the pens are delivered and administered in time.

They could get damaged in transit etc...

I think it’s just easier and more reliable to have vaccination centres with correct facilities and properly trained staff.

I’m sure there will be a simple answer to this, but I saw someone use one of those diabetic insulin pen thingies recently. How come they couldn’t be used to self-administer the CV vaccine for example? Is it a question of volume to be injected? Viscosity of the liquid perhaps?

Self administration has been considered - its not a technical issue with the hardware. There are:
1. Significant regulatory barriers (you'd need to show it is safe and effective in even the stupidest persons hands)
2. Significant costs
3. The vaccination process involves a discussion ultimately resulting in informed consent - harder to do that by mail
4. The rate limiting step at the moment is not how quick we can get it in arms but how quick we can manufacture the drug in bulk and pack in vials that treat a handful of people
5. Manufacturing single dose injections is even harder, putting them in fancy injectors slower again
6. The vaccines are all shipped with a cold chain - some exceptionally cold - that makes logistics for delivery to houses hard
7. A very small number of people may have a severe adverse reaction to the vaccine (you are not supposed to drive home for 15 mins after) - those people may be home alone rather than where help is at hand
8. How would we know who has had which vaccine and track uptake - rather than just units shipped to houses?

Diabetics (and others who self administer medicine by injection) get some training before they are let loose - usually practising on an orange before themselves. Also don't assume that because it doesn't look like a syringe it doesn't feel like one - there will be people who panic about the needle and screw it up. I'd guess a nervous first time injector is more likely to feel pain than someone in a mass vaccine clinic.

IF it turns out we all need 2 doses every six months for the rest of our lives - then I think you will start to see convenience of administration come into play - but right now the logistics of centralising mass administration outweigh the disadvantages.

The vaccine has to go into a muscle to be fully ‘processed’ into the body.

I see, and those insulin pens are what, like just into/under the skin? I've never seen one up close.

I see, and those insulin pens are what,

used by diabetics who use them regularly and routinely and have had support and supervision before they started doing so. It would be a great system if a vaccine was something we had to take every week. But for a one off it would take longer to explain how to use it that it would to administer.

5G chip needs very precise orientation to work obvs.

The simple answer is that it comes down to licensing.

ie which is a mixture of various things.

I see, and those insulin pens are what, like just into/under the skin? I’ve never seen one up close.

subcutaneous (not as deep as muscle) - although that in itself is not the issue for DIY vaccines - self administered IM injection is possible, and even if vaccines were subcutaneous there are big issues to overcome for DIY vaccination.