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Why do you teach 'wedge' before progressing onto 'parallel'?
Why not just start with 'parallel'?
Seams like you spend the first week learning wedge then the rest of your life trying to unlearn it.
Cause all your students would end up in a big heap at the bottom having not known how to stop! I really hope this was an ironic question...
It's like learning to walk before you can run. 9 out of 10 beginners would give up if you went straight to parallel turns.
You need a bit if speed and commitment to do a parallel turn. Not really possible for your first time on skis. Should only take a day or so, though if you are willing to throw yourself down the hill.
You need better instructors.Seams like you spend the first week learning wedge then the rest of your life trying to unlearn it.
Should only take a day or so, though if you are willing to throw yourself down the hill.
This. But that was coming from being a (in)compotent snowboarder, so not afraid to throw myself down the hill.
It's a right of passage. You have to look stupid before you get to look cool. That's right, you looked stupid, i said it.
Should only take a day or so, though if you are willing to throw yourself down the hill.
Been there done that. A good mate of mine ended up in the car park, it was very funny but he could have seriously hurt himself.
OP they used to teach something called ski evolutif in Les Arcs starting on very short skis and going straight to parallel. As others have posted wedge = control = safety for beginners
Tried skiing a few years back. Looked at snow plough turns and gave them a go on a couple of runs, soon thought screw that and tried parallel instead. Much easier. Now I didn't do either with much style or finesse but I know what I preferred doing.
Even when you *can* ski, a good snowplough will come in handy.
Sort of the same thing for snowboarding and [s]falling[/s] 'floating' leaf.
Not a ironic question. Last few years I've been on holiday with a few beginner/int's (adults and kids - 2 of them mine.) and that seams to be the thing they are all trying to - unlearn the wedge.
I/wife snowboard - don't ski. A few years back we hired skis for a morning. After a few runs on the beginners T - we headed up the chair down a easy long blue. We were fine ugly parallel skiing all the way down. I know its different as we already how sliding on snow feels.
I was just curious. To me its like teaching a kid to ride with stabilisers - they end up leaning the complete opposite way they should.
Wedge turns are easy to teach and a valuable tool if you get scared. You can start a wedge turn on a black run from zero speed.
There was an attempt to go straight to parallels - it worked for some.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/destinations/europe/france/alps/717068/Les-Arcs-Once-more-from-the-top.html
OP they used to teach something called ski evolutif in Les Arcs starting on very short skis and going straight to parallel.
Now this makes complete sense to me.
The same reason beginner snowboarders learn to control an edge then do falling leaf before starting on real turns. Most people need to get used to the feel of the snow and build a bit of confidence before they can manage the commitment needed to do parallel.
What you can read in to that article is that a bit of fitness and a encouraging instructor goes a lot further than the technique being taught.There was an attempt to go straight to parallels - it worked for some.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/destinations/europe/france/alps/717068/Les-Arcs-Once-more-from-the-top.html
If the wedge turn is taught correctly it's actually a very natural progression to ski parallel. It is also a useful technique for difficult conditions, or if you get out of your depth.
Obviously once you start skiing parallel you never want to ski snow plough again, but then you get better an realise it definitely has its place.
turning on steep, mogully slopes at low speeds = wish you'd learned to wedge
(this "saves" almost everybody at some point when they bite off more than they can chew)
turning, stopping, controlling speed once you're going quickish on anything = wish you hadn't tried to wedge
(this mangles occasional cocky young lads)
My first week was 1 day of snowploughing at gently increasing speeds, 1/2 day of sideslipping, 1/2 day of step turns, 3 days of something a bit like parrallels. Instructor was a young lad but I think he did it pretty much right.
but then you get better an realise it definitely has its place.
very useful for skiing backwards down slopes filming people coming down from the front, really good Glute workout as well if it's steep...
The outside ski which you have most of your weight on does the same thing in a snowplough turn as it does in a parallel turn. The inside ski has little to no weight or function other than a stabiliser and a ski which is already pre set for the new turn. Both skis are on their inside edges, left for turning right and vice versa.
Align the idea to riding a bike and stanilisers can be a great tool to get going. Your centre of mass is always within your 'footprint'. Asking someone to move their centre of mass outside the footprint takes a bit of a leap of faith.
The key to moving from plough to parallel is turn shape and unweighting the skis during the transition. People struggle to bring the skis across the hill to control the speed, they tend to use the braking of the wedge shape instead. No one moves enough vertically, all beginners are very rigid and static, to progress we need more flexion and extension of the legs.
If you are struggling to make the jump from wedge to parallel then start by running parallel across the slope and then brushing int . Slight wedge to start the turn. Gradually as you learn to stand on the outside ski you will feel the inside one begin to drift in at the end of the turn. Slowly this will make its way back up the turn until only a tiny wedge is used to initiate. This is a good stage to be at as the next step is easy with a few exercises, giants n midgets or the such.
OP they used to teach something called ski evolutif in Les Arcs starting on very short skis and going straight to parallel.
Yup, that's how I learned. Expressly forbidden to plough or stem until I caught the instructor doing it on a narrow linking path. When cheallenged he gave one of those Gallic shrugs and sais "why not?"
It was a brilliant method and enormous fun (meaning we all skied way too fast and fell over a lot). A great deal of emphasis was put on side slipping too. If you can do that whilst controlling your direction you can avoid a lot of trouble and get yourself out of virtually any mess. The downside is the amount of kit the hire shops needed. We did 2 days on 100cm skis, 2 days on 130 and 2 days on 160. I don't think they do it now.
As for ploughing, it is a very useful skill (as is stemming) but a very boring way to learn.
[i]After a few runs on the beginners T - we headed up the chair down a easy long blue. We were fine ugly parallel skiing all the way down.[/i]
That's fine, but what would you have done if, either through accident or misfortune, you'd found yourself on a red or black? It happens.
If you can snowplough, you can get down [i]anything[/i]. Not quickly. and not easily, but safely.
If all you know are self-taught 'parallels', then once you're on something steep you're very probably in trouble (especially as much of the 'proper' technique of parallel skiing is pretty counter-intuitive)
If you can sideslip, you can get down anything. Easily and safely.If you can snowplough, you can get down anything. Not quickly. and not easily, but safely.
True
The week we've just come back from was my Mrs' third week skiing, each week with three or four days of private lessons, and the first week anyone thought to teach her side slipping...
When McConkey wanted to smash the boundaries, did he snowplough?
40 seconds in. Not a snowplough in sight.
If you can sideslip, you can get down anything. Easily and safely.
Given the choice I'd rather side slip than snow plough if it's really steep (assuming you couldn't parallel).
You can't snowplough when it's steep enough.
Given the choice I'd rather side slip than snow plough if it's really steep (assuming you couldn't parallel).
Absolutely. Snowploughing steep stuff is terrifying. It's OK for shallow gradient straight line speed control or weird snow such as crust where do don't want to apply much pressure (though stemming would be preferable there).
Mind you, it's a generation or so ago that I learned and my skis in the cupboard are 200cm things (no they are not wooden with cable bindings). I imagine with modern easy turning shorter fatter skis teaching methods have changed anyway. I've no idea how it's approached now.
The same reason beginner snowboarders learn to control an edge then do falling leaf before starting on real turns. Most people need to get used to the feel of the snow and build a bit of confidence before they can manage the commitment needed to do parallel.
Falling leaf is a small part of a full linked turn. The entire movement is valid and used in a full linked turn.
I see the wedge being more similar to teaching a snowboarder to slide the back out. Gets them time on snow - teaches them to emergency brake - and its the same movement as a speed check or a stop at the bottom of the lift anyway. Can be useful getting down a black. But no SB instructor would be caught dead teaching a beginner to slide the back out as a step to progression.
Hold it. Why don't they teach skiers the falling leaf? aka linked garlands across the piste. Careful turn around/shuffle when you get to each edge.
I see skiing and boarding to be the same thing - one standing forwards - one standing sideways.
Because there are already enough beginner snowboarders out of their depth scraping all the snow off the steep stuff.Hold it. Why don't they teach skiers the falling leaf?
I do admire the fact that one run down a blue run has given you the insight to declare that (nearly) every ski insructor in the world is doing it wrong.
What Castanea said.
I presume you are an instructor?
I do admire the fact that one run down a blue run has given you the insight to declare that (nearly) every ski insructor in the world is doing it wrong.
Ha! - not saying they are wrong. I don't ski and don't really plan to if I can help it. But my kids do so I'm just trying to understand why things are don they way they are.
For all I know it could just be a conspiracy to keep everyone in ski school for the rest of their lives.....
[i]If you can sideslip, you can get down anything. Easily and safely.[/i]
I decided to try and side slip down the Hahnenkamm mausefalle, but it was solid ice and I lasted about 6ft! Fortunately it levels out after 100m. 😳
Actually this is a bit more interesting....
I learnt to snow plough in a park in Sheffield on cross country skies
Some time later I ended up on proper ski holiday
The transition to rough parallel on blue runs happened on day 2 and felt natural. Day 3 we did reds and some side slipping
Day 4 I thought I'd stick with red but ended up on an ice sheet. But step turns and side slipping saw me down safely
I was advised that the blacks at the top of the mountain were easier as the snow was better. So day 4 saw me swooping down 16 km of La sarenne under control with one minor slip onto my side. I assume this is one of many runs described as Europe's longest black run
But I felt the snow plough was still handy on narrow connecting runs
Similar analogy....forget learning to drive just go for power slides straight away. The beginner has to learn the basics of how to turn, control speed and stop. Snow plough does this by introducing each element individually. Parallel would just bombard them with too much stuff to deal with.
Wedge or snowplough (chasse-neige) is an essential technique for controlling speed especially when space is limited such as when schussing down a narrow roadway. Side-slipping is another defensive technique and ski tourers will have no shame in using either if conditions require.
I believe I'm right in saying that before short carving skis you progressed from the wedge to unweighting and stemming turns whereas nowadays you're likely to progress to carving parallel turns much more quickly. If you watch well-trained junior skiers you'll see that they ski pretty well parallel and just angulate and edge their carvers to turn.
Hold it. Why don't they teach skiers the falling leaf? aka linked garlands across the piste. Careful turn around/shuffle when you get to each edge.
They do, if I understand a falling leaf correctly (I'm not a snowboarder).
On skis if you stand upright and side slip, you go straight down the fall line. If you lean slightly forwards or backwards you traverse.
If you learn a kick turn too, you don't need to shuffle about at the edge of the piste (well you don't anyway 'cos you side slip backwards).
On skis if you stand upright and side slip, you go straight down the fall line. If you lean slightly forwards or backwards you traverse.
If you learn a kick turn too, you don't need to shuffle about at the edge of the piste
Exactly that seemed to get me down almost anything
Snowplough is a fundamental part of skiing. It's very hard on the legs if you do it day in day out, but if you are committed and have a good instructor you should be doing rough paralles in a week.
You can actually learn to carve straight from snowplough.
A good skier wouldn't be with out the snowplough. It's used in lift ques and skiing steep stuff like this to control speed.
😐skiing steep stuff like this to control speed.