[Closed] Question for campervan owners. (Payload content)

its pay load its not being towed its being carried.

and its the worst place to put weight for axle weights.

leverage is not your friend when hanging stuff off the back of vehicles with overhang.

Someone may be along to correct me, but my understanding is because a bike rack isn’t on a separate axle (like a trailer axle) then it counts under total payload.

If it helps for context, gross payload of our van is 3T. Fully loaded up with 2 bikes, 2 touring kayaks, 80L of water and all our stuff for 10 days away (we don’t have a full kitchen fit out - just a bed/storage unit out of 18 mm beach ply), came to 2.5T.

Thanks for the quick replies. I thought it would be payload but always best to sanity check. 🙂
As a follow up is 350kg of payload enough? Onboard water and gas tanks so I'm assuming 50-70kg of payload taken up by those. 2 adults and a small dog with food and clothes and two bikes. I reckon it could be tight.

It counts within your payload - only qualifies as 'towed' weight if the bit attached to the towbar is in contact with the ground (and you'd hope it shouldn't be!).

Similarly to ahsat, our previous van had gross payload 3000kg. VW T5 T30 2.5 with full conversion - pop roof, RIB seat/bed, kitchen, gas, water etc. With just with the basics on board (40L water, general camping stuff, bedding etc - everything apart from food, clothes, bikes etc) it was 2600kg. Very easy for us to load it right up to the 3000kg limit for big holidays with bikes etc.

Tight with motorhomes around the 3.5t bracket. The weight quoted as base weight usually includes driver, water and diesel iirc. The only way to be sure is to go weight it at a weighbridge and be sure. Also helps to not look overweight and to fill with water/ shopping at your destination if things are tight.

leverage is not your friend when hanging stuff off the back of vehicles with overhang.

True, but some bikes just off the back of a rear axel applies alot less leverage than an engine and gearbox 3 or 4 meters forward of the rear axel, plus a couple of adults sat in the front seat, and whatever weight you have in the middle of the van. So considering the see-saw effect pretty negligable.

I guess its best to look at manufacturers recommendations regarding max payload/gross weight and if they publish any axel weights...I've never seen that but not really looked for it as never considered it.

I reckon when I was fully loaded in my T5 camper on our French holidays with 4 bikes on the high level tailgate rack, plus a Thule tow bar box loaded to the gunnels under it I would have been pretty close to max payload of the vehicle. No weigh bridge near me so never checked. And never had any strange handling issues, light steering or problems with braking or anything at normal French motorway speeds. So the weight of the bikes and the tow bar box had a negligible effect vs the weight of everything forward of the rear axel. I've been alot more aware before with cars and roof boxes due to the weight being so high up.

As a follow up is 350kg of payload enough? ....... I reckon it could be tight.

I class motorhome payloads along with pedal reflectors as being one of the most ridiculously legislated laws around.

The 'spare' payload figures for many motorhomes are complete bullshit. It's quite obvious that as soon as they are loaded up with people, luggage,beater etc they will be grossly overweight. But for some reason they are still allowed to sell them and the legal responsibility is borne by the generally oblivious owner.

It just shouldn't be legal to sell motorhomes for 4 people with only a few hundred kilos spare payload. But they do.

Yes, the payload for a motorhome under a normal driving licence is paltry. But you can upgrade your license to enable a higher payload, so not a limitation of the motorhome, but what you're allowed to driver under your normal standard driving license. No test necessary.

350kg is fairly low. Things differ slightly from manufacturer to manufacturer....

Our base weight includes driver, full fuel tank, half full (so 50ltr) water tank and 1 gas bottle. We've got a few kg under 600kg payload so a lot to play with as there's only 2 of us plus a small dog. Missus has got about 70kg of booze in here currently though! Looking forward to getting away in ours next weekend

@wobbliscott - that's not true. The motorhome needs to be re-plated to the higher weight. Then you have to have the correct license to drive it. You can't just drive an overweight motorhome on a C1 license.

I agree that many manufacturers really push the payload limits - especially as the quoted payloads are usually without any optional extras fitted such as solar panels, awning, TV, bike racks, bigger batteries, etc, etc

I bet it's pretty common for them to end up with 350kg payload for a potential 4-berther which is hardly anything. I've just calculated our family of 4 at needing about 600kg

My OH had a 3.5T Ducato based chassis horsebox.

I took it to the local weighbridge, came in at 2.7T with just me, 1/2 tank of fuel and saddles/tack etc.

Now add in 2 other folk, 2 horses @ 500-600kg each, water and food etc etc...

We did look at getting it plated as we're both old enough to drive heavier vehicles, but then it kills the s/h value.

I reckon most horse boxes are overweight and tbh trailers too when you see what's pulling them.

No weigh bridge near me so never checked.

Rubbish, they're literally everywhere.

Rubbish, they’re literally everywhere.

Yeah - I was surprised. Hard to find on google, but loads of them about when you ask around. My local ones are at a gardening supplies place and a metal merchants - both were for weighing all the outgoing vehicles and it cost £7 to get my van weighed there.

I keep meaning to do it when we're all loaded for going away, but obviously then we're keen to get on the road!

As a follow up is 350kg

I’d say that’s low.

I’ve just finished building my camper and have 550kg with full fuel tank but empty water (90litres). So call it 450kg with full tanks. And I think that’s lower than I’d like.

I am doing a couple of things to improve it slightly (lighter battery and cutting some holes in things!)

Also make sure any payload you see written down is based on actual weight of the vehicle. Some are low on standard spec and don’t include the reduction for Awning, bigger battery etc.

I struggled to find a publicly-accessible weighbridge. Luckily the staff at our local recycling centre took an interest in my campervan and asking if I wanted to stick it on their weighbridge, but that was an exception.

Only local public weighbridge is deep within Grangemouth Docks. Involved me making an appointment, showing my passport on arrival to access the docks (yup), then driving about 1.5miles within the docks to find the weighbridge. Only required one wrong turning and one unhitching of caravan to do an about turn! Cost <£10. https://www.falkirk.gov.uk/services/law-licensing/trading-standards/weighbridge-operators.aspx

If it was easier to access a weighbridge then more folk would use it I'm sure.

I was idly looking at motorhomes at the weekend (christ alive they're expensive!). I had a look at the Swift website and they do a 4 berth jobbie that has an available payload of a whole 205kg. Add 3 passengers and you'll have around 100-120kg left, what use is that to anyone?

We swithered for a while but ended up getting it replaced to a higher weight. It's given us peace of mind.

The one disadvantage is lower speed limits on certain roads, but when we're away in the van it's a very relaxed pace of life so taking a bit more time is no great deal.

@wobbliscott – that’s not true. The motorhome needs to be re-plated to the higher weight. Then you have to have the correct license to drive it. You can’t just drive an overweight motorhome on a C1 license.

I wasn't sure of the exact process, but my point is that the limitation is not a mechanical one with the van. Go through a bit of a bureaucratic process and you can unlock more payload.

We just found a public weighbridge at an agricultural suppliers en route to holiday (Settle if any use to anyone). That meant we were fully loaded up and there are loads dotted around along the sorts of A-roads you’d take to somewhere interesting.

But you can upgrade your license to enable a higher payload, so not a limitation of the motorhome, but what you’re allowed to driver under your normal standard driving license. No test necessary.

For those of us young enough, you do need to take a test for a C1 upgrade.

Thanks to everyone for your replies. It has given me a clearer idea of what to look for.

@northermatt, I thought the same about the prices when we started looking online, I can't believe some of the prices for new pvc's/mh's. It's an expensive mistake if you get the wrong vehicle.

I am old enough to have a license for over 3500kg so could go for a heavier plated vehicle to add more carrying capacity but the smaller units were attractive as I figured they would give better access to places off the beaten track.
It's a medium term plan (about 2 years to work it out) so plenty of time to look around and gather info'.

I wasn’t sure of the exact process, but my point is that the limitation is not a mechanical one with the van. Go through a bit of a bureaucratic process and you can unlock more payload

Depends fully on the van. It's no where near as simple as you made out originally and opens other issues such as resale and convincing the garage on which mot it should be....

SVtech are the ones to talk you through it.

from what i see on instagram and facebook - the small bespoke custom van converters are the worst for ignoring payloads. at least the likes of swift try to stick to light materials.

If it was easier to access a weighbridge then more folk would use it I’m sure.

Many farms, especially those involved in contracting will have them, then there are scrap dealers, quarries and a whole host of other businesses plus the public ones and it's not like you need a printout or anything. I went to the local quarry, cost me £10.

You don't need to be fully loaded, easy enough to work out what folk/liquids/etc weigh

I wasn’t sure of the exact process, but my point is that the limitation is not a mechanical one with the van. Go through a bit of a bureaucratic process and you can unlock more payload.

As trailrat said, it is a mechanical limitation of the van (chassis, brakes, suspension). Some vans can be uprated within certain limits, but often not above the existing axle weights, and may need modification, almost certainly a new set of tyres at the minimum.

Most weighbridge owners will weigh you, they don't need to be on a 'public' list.

Dallas, if you are buying a van, either private or dealer, definitely get it weighed, ideally on your test drive. Payload calcs are often based on the basic model without extra appliances, often exaggerated or just plain lied about. 350kg sounds a bit tight as it includes everything, your food, the spare tyre, bike rack. Mine is 3100kg fully laden (weighed whilst on holiday with a garage full of bikes, BBQs etc, but once I put my horse trailer on (nose weight detracts from payload) I think I'd be very close if I took two adults in my spare seats. (2x 80kg adults, 200kg nose weight, and saddles, tack, extra water)

The ‘spare’ payload figures for many motorhomes are complete bullshit. It’s quite obvious that as soon as they are loaded up with people, luggage,beater etc they will be grossly overweight. But for some reason they are still allowed to sell them and the legal responsibility is borne by the generally oblivious owner.

My understanding is the payload is set by the underlying vehicle because that is what has been tested.

Unless its reclassified then I presume it changes and would need retesting.

In practice... if your base vehicle also has a minibus version and takes x passengers at say 60kg a piece I can't see any practical reasons changing x people for water/fuel etc. (in a baffled tank) would make any difference.

350kg sounds a bit tight

350kg is exactly what I took out of the Master. (wheelchair hoist)
It drove significantly differently ...

Just off the cuff it would be hard to add that 350kg back without going mad... it was a LOT of very heavy gauge steel.

I've got +2kg of diesel heater and +40l of diesel @0.8 kg/l and a few sheets of ply and 5 bikes...
Another 40l of water seperated ... 30kg of sound deadening and perhaps 1-2kg insulation... and maybe 50kg of tools and bike spares.

With 2 of us in still doesn't feel anything like before I pulled out the 350kg!

With 2 of us in still doesn’t feel anything like before I pulled out the 350kg!

That's because the weight you put back in is fairly well distributed, the 350kg lift would have been largely behind the back axle.

Edit - or was it? Maybe a side door mounted one. 🤔

My understanding is the payload is set by the underlying vehicle because that is what has been tested.

Ducato from the factory, 1300kg payload, for example. Converter adds 900kg of plywood, telly's, bathroom fittings and kitchen appliances. Payload is now 400kg. Buyer fills the van with holiday stuff and family, goes overweight.

These are the people to talk to if you want a van uplating http://www.svtech.co.uk/

No personal experience but they take the pain out of it apparently, for a fee obviously. You can do it yourself.

Some can be up plated with just a paper exercise, some will need extras added like air suspension.

My Relay can be uprated to 3,800kg I believe, and maybe more with airbags which I’ve added anyway to keep its back end up, although I have no plans to uprate it.

Most 3.5t vans are available in 3.8t versions. I've never been able to find out the significance of 3.8t, but I suspect it's a limitation on single tyre axle weights.
Ford, PSA, Fiat, Renault, and Merc all offer 3.8t, and all use single wheels.

Anything officially registered as a Motorhome IIRC gets mot'd as a class IV, regardless of weight, provided the test station is physically capable of handling the vehicle. I know the testers at work have done 5 tonne motorhomes, as we have the facilities to handle up to 5.2t on the mot ramp, and a commercial brake tester.

Uprating either depends on upgrading the required components to match the higher GVW factory standard and the manufacturer verifying the approved weights, or somebody independently stating the higher weights are safe.
Working on quite a lot of specialist vehicles, I get to see some weird bodybuilder decisions regarding GVW, and axle weights. Last one I inspected was a Sprinter with upgraded GVW, but with towing capacity zeroed, so it kept within the original axle weights.
Then you have bodybuilders that will shorten chassis' to get the optimum volume vs payload (i.e. why have a 10m box on a standard chassis, when you can't use the full volume due to being overweight, so they'll cut a couple metres out of the chassis so they can fully load an 8m box) for the customers requirements.