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Nice heated thread.
I think the people have turned against the people.
I don't want to get too involved but it seems these days the majority are just out for themselves. My parent's brought me up with a Utilitarian attitude to voting - don't just vote for what will benefit you, but vote for the greater good. I might be alright, Jack, but it's my social responsibility to use my vote, to a certain extent, to help the less fortunate. I still vote like that today. People can vote how they want, but I despair when I meet people who have voted one way because of one little incentive, such as a measly tax cut; it's so short-sighted.
Of course, everyone's view of the greater good is different. People believed that Thatcher's trickle-down wealth would work to pull the poor up as the rich guy got richer. Tax cuts for the wealthy were proposed as a policy benefitting society as a whole. Did that work? Hmmmm. My family didn't fall for that crap.
I don't know enough about it, but I can see a problem is that when you stand by a label, such as Conservatism, or Socialism, there is limited manoeuvrability within the philosophy to be too radical. Conservatism is all about the individual, personal wealth and capitalism, it's what it is, so trying to be a socially responsible Conservative is philosophically very difficult in my view, no matter what they say. Blair seemed to manage it the other way around, but was he really a socialist? There are different brands of Conservatism that take parts of liberalism and other ideas of course, but it just ends up as cherry picking. We're trapped in this ridiculous, antiquated party politics system, based on old philosophies, each individual having a different interpretation of what they believe is right and arguing all day about it. It's impossible.
Do I have a solution? I was quite fond of Anarchy back in the day, but Liberalism now seems a good aim. On the other hand, a good friend of mine believes that we should bring back a Monarchy. They have nothing to prove, Liz would do a good job until Chuck took over, then I'm sure Will would make a good fist of it. No elections, just get on with it. We might get a revolution then, which is probably long overdue.
All this crap can be summed up, chewed up and spat out in one 90 minute sitting of the greatest satire ever made, The Life of Brian.
"Are you the Judean's People's Front?", "F*** off, we're the People's Front of Judea"
TJ probably considers the Times and the FT hard right lol :p
Unfortunately I can’t say that about the people who have been raped by years of tory governments. I guess those people should just try harder…
Are you and me elsewhere? Not me, thats for sure. Yes try harder. Stop bitching about things and move forward and try to positively improve you life. I really don't understand those who choose to continue to live in bitterness when they really don't have to.
My parent’s brought me up with a Utilitarian attitude to voting – don’t just vote for what will benefit you, but vote for the greater good.
I agree. Funnily enough what's best for society will ultimately be what's best for the majority. But we have problems with our politics in that respect. The Tories have no interest in the majority, they show that time and again. Both Tory and Labour are only interested in policies which will win them the next election, there is a woeful lack of long term strategic planning.
We need a politics which doesn't "govern" so much as "administer" the affairs of state for the benefit of its inhabitants. We don't have that.
Or a revolution.
Stop bitching about things and move forward and try to positively improve you life. I really don’t understand those who choose to continue to live in bitterness when they really don’t have to.
They are living in poverty not bitterness and they are living in poverty through things that have happened to them (family, education, genetics, mental illness etc,.)
Not everyone can just 'try harder' but you are typical of the people who would rather not have to acknowledge that so you don't have to think about helping the situation.
I really don’t understand those who choose to continue to live in bitterness when they really don’t have to.
Once again, most people can move forward and still learn from history.
An inability to understand this suggests either deliberate misrepresentation, ignorance or both.
Once again, most people can move forward and still learn from history.
I understand it Rusty, but most in here don't demonstrate it.
How have you reached that conclusion?
Once again, most people can move forward and still learn from history.
One of the lessons I’ve learned from history is to avoid confrontation with police horses.
The old guy who lived next door taught me that when i was twelve
They are living in poverty not bitterness and they are living in poverty through things that have happened to them (family, education, genetics, mental illness etc,.)
Not everyone can just ‘try harder’ but you are typical of the people who would rather not have to acknowledge that so you don’t have to think about helping the situation.
More generally, those who are comfortable in life are often not very good at acknowledging that their situation is not entirely due to their own endeavours.
Stop bitching about things and move forward and try to positively improve you life. I really don’t understand those who choose to continue to live in bitterness when they really don’t have to.
Quite agree. Let's rise up and stick their piggy heads on spikes,
That list of papers. One well left of centre with a tiny circulation. One slightly left of centre with a decent circulation. One centrist with a tiny circulation. One centreist with a small circulation. The others are right wing with biggewr ciculations IIRC
80% of all papers in this country sold are right wing to far right.
tory graph and times are right wing. Express, mail are far right.
The poisonous effect of the continual right wing anti immigrant EU blaming press that is owned by a small group of far right tax exiles should not be diminished. They set the news agenda. See the baseless attacks on Corbyn compared to the silence over the overt racism in the tory party.
From following the mainstream media you would not know that the tory party is riddled with racism from top to bottom and you would believe a man who has fought bias all his life was a racist.
Setting aside the fact that the Tories have always had a core of entitled Bullingdon boys with nothing but contempt for the great unwashed, I'd say what we're seeing now from them is pretty much the same across almost all of the British political spectrum...
The Common theme seems to be "polarisation" Labour are in a similar sort of mess with their Momentum driven swing to the left is alienating the "moderates" (they used to be called "Blairites") and with them the middle ground swing voters that could put them in power...
The Tories far from having been united by Brexit as CMD planned, have a leadership lurching to the right with their rhetoric to try and trick the disident KIPers back into the fold, while simultaniously agreeing compromises with the EU that they know they won't be able to sell to those same Brexit lovers back home...
The trouble right now is the press releases, speaches and the statements coming out of pretty much everyone are designed to whip up passions, drive out reasonable debate and create conflict. There's lot's of "Individuals" looking to capitalise for their own ends...
If there was one time, since the war, we could actually do with having at least one of the major parties more united it's probably now.
TJ probably considers the Times and the FT hard right lol :p
The Times is certainly right wing.
FT is harder to position on the spectrum although does have its bias. It is also pretty pointless trying to use as a counter balance in a list of papers since it is, deliberately, a low volume paper.
Are you and me elsewhere? Not me, thats for sure. Yes try harder. Stop bitching about things and move forward and try to positively improve you life. I really don’t understand those who choose to continue to live in bitterness when they really don’t have to.
So what have I been doing wrong? Worked in the same job for 17 years, the boss decided to take a dislike to me & I came close to having a breakdown, was signed off for stress then sacked. I couldn't afford to take it to tribunal - a nice little fee introduced by our Tory Government.
Next job - I took it as I had no real option, was made redundant after 18months, this time via a text message with a weeks notice. That little policy to enable a weeks notice was introduced by the same Tory Government with a little help from the Lib Dems.
I'd like to thank Binners and the other like-minded contributors to this thread. I needed a gentle reminder just what a set of ***** the Tories are. I'm a working class Northerner who watched the well paid jobs disappear in my town whilst the people switched their voting alliances from many years of Labour (The town was nicknamed 'Little Moscow' in the 1930s) to the Tories. My mother was a leading light in the local Tory party 'women's section' and I used to argue with her constantly about politics. She had been 'better off' when she was younger and still considered that the Tories were the right people to stop the unions, curb immigration etc etc. I thought that they probably just sneered at people like her. Mind you, she did prefer Heath to Thatcher.
is alienating the “moderates” (they used to be called “Blairites”)
It is a non too subtle attempt at rebranding to get away from not too rosy view of blairism now and also to try and imply that they are moderate rather than extremists themselves. Which given their inability to play with anyone who doesnt share their exact views is quite difficult to believe.
and with them the middle ground swing voters that could put them in power…
To a point. Chasing the "middle ground" though has two main fails.
First the "middle ground" can shift.If you follow someone either left or right over time the "middle ground" will move as well as the other side moves further to the side.
Secondly all the traditional voting base realise you are screwing them over to chase swing voters and so go looking for alternatives, We are seeing the results of that in several countries including the UK at the moment.
So what have I been doing wrong? Worked in the same job for 17 years, the boss decided to take a dislike to me & I came close to having a breakdown, was signed off for stress then sacked. I couldn’t afford to take it to tribunal – a nice little fee introduced by our Tory Government.
Next job – I took it as I had no real option, was made redundant after 18months, this time via a text message with a weeks notice. That little policy to enable a weeks notice was introduced by the same Tory Government with a little help from the Lib Dems.
Sorry to hear that. I think your post is a neat illustration of how quickly the wheels can fall off for any of us.
To a point. Chasing the “middle ground” though has two main fails.
First the “middle ground” can shift.If you follow someone either left or right over time the “middle ground” will move as well as the other side moves further to the side.
Secondly all the traditional voting base realise you are screwing them over to chase swing voters and so go looking for alternatives, We are seeing the results of that in several countries including the UK at the moment.
Oh I agree, but the main point I was making is that both of the two major parties are carrying evident, polarsed splits amongst the membership, and in both cases those splits have the potential to cost them with the electorate (Probably within the next 9-12 months)...
Brexit is a lost cause, the focus now is the General Election that inevitably follows it...
That list of papers. One well left of centre with a tiny circulation. One slightly left of centre with a decent circulation. One centrist with a tiny circulation. One centreist with a small circulation. The others are right wing with biggewr ciculations IIRC
80% of all papers in this country sold are right wing to far right.
tory graph and times are right wing. Express, mail are far right.
Your claim was the owners of the uk press were ultra right. I listed a few papers that weren't owned by three of four ultra right owners. If you want to shift that claim to circulation then you're actually talking about buyers. And yeah, for whatever reason left wing people don't buy the available left wing papers in any significant quantity. (Incidentally, I don't really accept that people can be meaningfully politically distributed on a 'left/right' political spectrum: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left%E2%80%93right_political_spectrum#Relevance_of_the_terms_today)
It won't be many years before the print press disappears. It's already shrunk so much that the weight of recycling has significantly reduced!
The owners of the newspapers that comprise 80% of newspapers bought in this country are owned by far right tax exiles.
Murdoch, Barclay brothers and Desmond.
Desmond.
he doesn't own any newspapers anymore; sold them in February this year to the owners of the Daily Mirror....
This...
The poisonous effect of the continual right wing anti immigrant EU blaming press that is owned by a small group of far right tax exiles should not be diminished. They set the news agenda.
What I can’t stand about the tories and their supporters in the media are the lengths theyll go to to keep their money to themselves - they’d rather screw the whole country up rather than accept new regulations that the EU are going to bring in to clamp down on corporate tax dodgers. IMO, the diversionary sh*te about immigration and EU red tape was just a front to keep them in their bubble world lifestyle, by getting us out of the EU. Oh, and all the bo**ocks about extra money for the NHS...FFS, does anyone actually believe that millionaires like Bojo, Mogg, Farage etc. would actually choose to use the NHS or send their kids through the state education system.
While I’m on ranting - if we’re supposed to be the 6th or 7th richest nation in the world, why can’t we afford things like properly funded public services, NHS etc etc. It’s not because of rampant corporate tax dodging by any chance?!
Don’t even get me started on the effing Tory policies that destroyed huge chunks of manufacturing industry in the city I grew up in.
Oh, then there’s our local Tory mp who backs fracking in spite of the majority of his constituents being against it.
Theyre just a self serving bunch of *****
Yes try harder. Stop bitching about things and move forward and try to positively improve you life. I really don’t understand those who choose to continue to live in bitterness when they really don’t have to.
Is this naive, Tory, stupid or all 3?
Is this naive, Tory, stupid or all 3?
If you've grown up away from the areas or haven't felt the pinch yourself then you are probably unaware of just how desperate it can be...
Only if you have a total lack of empathy, an inate feeling of superiority, or both.
Neither of which are very pleasant traits.
While I’m on ranting – if we’re supposed to be the 6th or 7th richest nation in the world, why can’t we afford things like properly funded public services, NHS etc etc. It’s not because of rampant corporate tax dodging by any chance?!
Actually, a lot of the others can't either. Germany has gotten by, by artificially keeping wages low. Japan is ****ed because of it's aging population, we're ****ed because of our aging population, Korea is ****ed because of it's aging population, Italy is ****ed because of it's aging population - France? I don't know and don't care 😛 America has gotten by not giving a flying **** about social welfare.
China is facing an utter ticking timebomb, but that's 50 odd years away.
Best thing we could do is encourage everyone to lead unhealthy lifestyles - tax free smoking, drinking, sugar and seatbeltless driving for everyone born before 4/10/1977 - coupled with massive tax incentives to encourage young adults to start ****ing without protection. That'll kill a few people and make the aging population easier to cope with in terms of tax.
German wages are higher than ours. taxes are much higher
Of course we can easily afford high quality public services. We just have to have fair taxation of individuals and companies. Start with the big tax dodgers like starbucks and Amazon. Very simple to do. tax on turnover not profits as all they do is export all the profits. Easy to identify the companies that do this. Then start on all the tax loopholes for individuals including the reduction in NI for the high earners and tax free dividends.
As Corbyn says - he knows where the magic money tree is -- offshore in tax havens
https://countryeconomy.com/countries/compare/germany/uk?sc=XEAB
TJ, according to that link, there is little difference in terms of wages actually.
What Germany is however, is much more productive with a higher GDP per Capita - which means their tax returns are probably bigger and they have a larger population - which means health etc might get efficiency savings from economies of scale etc.
If you’ve grown up away from the areas or haven’t felt the pinch yourself then you are probably unaware of just how desperate it can be…
No, I've lived in the SE all my life.
However I used to survive on a food bill for two of max £16 a week, have no money for anything other than utilities, rescue furniture from the tip, and dread anything going wrong because I couldn't afford it. I ended that period of my life £28,000 in debt with no friends or supportive family and on anti depressants. I then swore to myself I'd turn it around (I'd just met my current wife and wanted to do good for her), and have. I've worked very hard to do so, by myself. I'm not trying to boast, I'm trying to communicate facts.
Only if you have a total lack of empathy, an inate feeling of superiority, or both.
Neither of which are very pleasant traits.
You seem to want to insult me Rusty, or at least it appears that way? I'm none of though things, just selfishly grateful for the wife kids and home I have around myself. I didn't beg steal or borrow to get what I have. I'm not financially rich, or superior to anyone. We've never met, so perhaps reserve your judgement rather than allude to an assumption.
The important thing about my 1st para in this post is that I haven't spent 20+ years of my life blaming other people for the position I found myself in, although I was certainly helped there by others as well as myself. Yes I feel this country is a made shittier than perhaps it could be by politics, and that politicians have/do sacrifice the needs of the common man for their personal gain but sitting in my living room seething with hatred and telling everyone I'd piss on Thatchers grave won't change that.
However I used to survive on a food bill for two of max £16 a week, have no money for anything other than utilities, rescue furniture from the tip, and dread anything going wrong because I couldn’t afford it. I ended that period of my life £28,000 in debt with no friends or supportive family and on anti depressants.
Imagine whole communities in a similar position and at a time when people weren’t as understanding or aware of antidepressants. Families left with nothing and towns left destitute, some of which have never recovered.
I was only young when it all happened. Step father was a miner, grandfather a steel worker. I understand where you are coming from, but I don’t think you are quite grasping the scale or complexity of what happened and some of the effects it had and is still having.
Difficult to understand if you are not on yhe receiving end and i understand that.
Thinking back to December 1983 - went to sign on with the other 1600 blokes who got made redundant on Christmas eve, looked at the queue and thought **** that and went to the job centre to look at the 3 (yes 3) jobs that were advertised.
2 jobs for night watchmen
1 job for a cleaner
By the time i got to the desk to apply they had gone.
Life in a Northern town.... it lost 10,000 engineering jobs in 12 months.
You seem to want to insult me Rusty, or at least it appears that way?
Not particularly, but I'm struggling with some of your comments:
I really don’t understand those who choose to continue to live in bitterness when they really don’t have to.
That you 'really don't understand' why someone can still be angry suggests a lack of empathy, a deliberate desire to misunderstand or both.
its a bit of of hard work that now has me in a fortunate place for my family and my own life. I appreciate I’m fortunate not to have had relatives miners strikes and with industry ripped away in my region, but some people could actually do far better by moving thier energy away from continual gripes and bitterness of the past into building a more successful future for yourselves.
Sadly, you’d all rather moan on the internet that do that.
This and your other posts suggest that you believe that hard work is something alien to those who still hate the Tories.
That's an illogical, patronising generalisation.
I'm sorry if you find that insulting, it's not meant personally.
Without actually being in the experience which I cannot change, I am. I'm as open/able to read papers/news empathise as the next person. I travel the country and see the effects even today - recent experiencing Oldham & Salford projects to help the less fortunate for example.
I'm not claiming to be the most affected poorness person in England. I don't really know why you are personalising it all at me really, all I'm suggesting is trying to move on rather than grind yourself away in bitterness which is not the answer. I appreciate its not easy, and personally I'm not the worst affected. I'm just saying with some effort, it can be done.
Back to politics, personally I can't see a current answer. The Tories need to go, but who's the People's champ? There's just a few buffoons and a hippie to choose from.
I then swore to myself I’d turn it around (I’d just met my current wife and wanted to do good for her), and have
Good for you. You realise not everyone can be like you don't you?
I’m suggesting is trying to move on rather than grind yourself away in bitterness which is not the answer.
You're doing it again.
What makes you think no one has moved on? I don't spend my life feeling bitter about anything.
Doesn't stop me despising the Tory Party and their apologists - it would be perverse if I didn't.
I do love it when a thread goes all...
What Germany is however, is much more productive with a higher GDP per Capita – which means their tax returns are probably bigger and they have a larger population – which means health etc might get efficiency savings from economies of scale etc.
Health is essentially private in Germany
If anywhere can get economies of scale in that respect, it's UK, especially when "the NHS" when taken as a whole is one of the largest state employers in the world (after US DoD and Chinese People's Liberation Army) !
Net average salaries, when rebased in to € or $ or using purchasing power, puts Germany, Austria and UK as 3 adjacent countries in the list of all European countries.
You can concoct any story you like with statistics
I’m just saying with some effort, it can be done.
indeed, it probably can. But if you'd been made redundant by these policies, along with family and friends, and found yourself in negative equity in a town with no jobs, and had to drag your kids out of school and start again from scratch elsewhere, while the government described you as 'The Enemy Within', (etc etc and so on and so forth) - would you honestly, later on, shrug and go 'no hard feelings'?
You can work hard and move on, and still be angry about it. It's not just one or the other.
No, I’ve lived in the SE all my life.
I was born in the SE, it wasn't until I went to uni in a former industrial town that had had most of it's heavy industry destroyed in the 80s by you-know-who that I realised how lucky the SE is in terms of opportunities without having to up sticks and leave - which some can't do.
Health is essentially private in Germany
I thought it was a mix of Private and public insurance?
all I’m suggesting is trying to move on rather than grind yourself away in bitterness which is not the answer
I agree with you,and I did just that.What surprised me was how much bitterness & contempt was in me when I saw newsclips from back in the day when that witch was running the country & right royally f***ing us & our communities.
I would never piss on her grave,I'm better than that...
It may be a minor thing compared to those who grew up in the northern mining towns but being in a single parent family on benefits in the 80's was enough to put me off the Tories for life.
I’m just saying with some effort, it can be done.
Luck plays a much bigger part.
Luck plays a much bigger part
Yep, I'm not convinced of meritocracy either.
All I know is the people around that earn the most don't do the toughest jobs.
Lots of us already work hard.
but being in a single parent family on benefits in the 80’s
Aaaaah..... I remember those halcyon, pre-immmigrant days when it was YOU who was the cause of all societies problems. Well... you and the gayers! The devients!!!
You never know, post-Brexit, you may get that staus back? 😉
If you’ve grown up away from the areas or haven’t felt the pinch yourself then you are probably unaware of just how desperate it can be…
I grew up in the north east
... but Teesside, so we didn't really have mining; more chemical industry, some steel plus a BFO power station
TBH, at the time Teesside had it nowhere near as bad as they did a bit further north and I agree that even 25 miles made a difference to the "experience" (and my family was pretty comfy middle class anyway by comparison to a lot of my schoolmates)
I still hate the tories though. FWIW, as much for the apparent relish with which they did it as the acts themselves
I then swore to myself I’d turn it around (I’d just met my current wife and wanted to do good for her), and have.
This is the core of the right-wing argument. Everyone should be able to sort themselves out. 'I did it, so why can't you?'
Kryton, you are an intelligent person, and you had the ability to apply yourself and solve your problems. But not everyone can do that. You won at least one prize in life's lottery. You have to understand that whilst all people should have equal rights, they aren't all born with equal ability. Which is why those with less need support.
I’m not sure there are many people who actively like the tory party - which gives rise to the question of why vote for them then? I suspect there’s a lot of people out there who actively mistrust politicians of all persuasions, but (until recently) they have seen the tories as being more competent at the business of government, and therefore vote for them. Obvs that doesn’t really apply in the current situation!!
Sums up the current state of affairs for me
This film, and this scene in particular sums up the 80’s and early 90’s to me...
Its worse than that molgrips. Even with equal ability your chances are lower
If you are born in a inner city sink estate its highly likely the school you go has worse teachers and facilities with more discipline problems compared to the 'burbs. so for the same amount of effort you will get worse exam results.
Drugs will be more easily available and of worse quality than in nice affluent areas so you are more likely to get involved in drugs and more likely to get effed up by them if you do
You are more likely to have workless parents so have fewer role models to point you in the direction of work
You are more likely to have health issues from poor quality housing and poor diet
You are more likely to have only one parent at home
You are likely to be discriminated against when applying for work. NO nice suit to wear, maybe a strong accent and who wants to employ someone from darkest Pilton! They are all thieves and druggies being the popular perception
The odds are stacked against you from the moment you are born. Not only would you have to work harder to get to the same place in life than someone from the 'burbs but even if you get a decent set of o levels and a decent work ethic its still harder to get a job
Its an self sustaining situation thats very hard to get out of
I worked for a couple of months in one of ~Edinburghs worst schemes and it was frankly horrific. ~The people even look different with thin pinched white faces. Life expectancy is decades shorter.
yes you can get out through hard work but there is no doubt at all that there are significant barriers in your way that make it harder than a nice middle class kid from the 'burbs and its like starting a race with your shoelaces tied in a big tangled knot.
this is american and in part focusses on race but is equally applicable to our society and white and black alike
I can never forgive the tories for what they (she) did to the miners.
Most of my family on my Mums side were miners (except my Grandma, she was a welder) 😉
I was self employed for over 20 years as a petrol station owner & the tories never did me any good.
I was in the prison service as an employee for 16 years & they ballsed that up as well.
Useless inept turds, the lot of them.
I’m not sure there are many people who actively like the tory party
Especially on here.
I suspect there’s a lot of people out there who actively mistrust politicians of all persuasions,
Not just me then? I hate the lot of them but the blue bastards in particular.
I educated, worked and grafted my way out of it, the ****s where i live really dont like me (posh north yorkshire) but tough shit..... most of them are slightly right of Adolph and i present myself as slightly left of Joseph.
Makes the pub interesting, should have seen their faces when i suggested at the Parish meeting we promote some social housing in the village, you think i had pissed in the Queens tea.
I remember the miners getting beat up by police on tv when I was kid and the Falklands.
Torys represent the rich. Why would working class people vote for them? Duh.
Middle and upper class should vote for them to keep the working class in check lol.
I have had the pleasure of the Met police kicking the shit out of me..... smashing bunch of lads
I honestly think the worst of the Tories aren't in the S/E or city Oiks necessarily, but the Shires. I lived for a bit on the Northants/Oxon border in Brackley, and our MP was at the time (and still is ) Andrea Leadsom. Which speaks volumes of the sort of person they admire and aspire to be like. It's an obnoxious combination of white entitlement, fear of immigration, (although it's barely visible), and a holier than thou attitude to any folk with ideas "above their station" although there was a troop of them that would churn through the town and parish council, snouts in trough of land sales for developments, road building contracts and cleaning and catering opportunities. (One Tory councillor managed to have the street lights on all night in her street despite the fact that alternate lamppost switch-off, and no lighting at all post 3am was routine for everywhere else in town) they're obsessed with Land, hunting, and nibyism, the "young of today" layabouts and the un-deserving poor....truly selfishly vile people
After our local police station was shut down due to austerity cuts, the local Tory councillor bought the land it was on at a bargain basement price.
That, in a nutshell, sums up the Tory party to me
Public interest? **** that! I can make a tidy little packet for myself here
If you are born in a inner city sink estate its highly likely the school you go has worse teachers
"Less wonderful", please 😁
Its worse than that molgrips. Even with equal ability your chances are lower
Oh I know, I was keeping it simple and pointing out just one aspect of the problem. One that I believe is harder to argue against. We aren't all born clever and resourceful.
Sorry AA - typo. Less wonderful teachers
After our local police station was shut down due to austerity cuts, the local Tory councillor bought the land it was on at a bargain basement price.
There is a police station in my town of 50000 people, however, you cannot walk in without an appointment, The nearest police station you can walk in to see someone is 20miles away, through 6 towns & villages...
Recently I've also heard that you won't be able to hand lost property into the police anymore unless it's sensitive. It'll be going to a private company. So no doubt you'll either have to pay to leave it with them or pay for them to check & pay to have it recovered.
Am i the only person old enough to remember the Labour years of 3 day weeks,rubbish uncollected.power cuts and the debacle of the British motor industry. Labour should also shoulder some responsibility for the collapse of the banks due to there toadying around big business and the light touch of regulation.
What we should be asking is does the present system of government actually work and does it need a major overhaul. Perhaps the next referendum should be on the future of the House of Lords.Our tax system is arcaic,too complicated and unfair.Its basically the wealthier you are the less tax you pay in proportion. Neither major party has been prepared to " ruffle feathers " and address this.
Both major parties are quite happy with this arrangement as it gives very little opportunity to smaller parties or independants.They just have to sit back,wait a few years,and they know they'll be back in power.
Voting for either party will not change things dramatically if this 2 party stranglehold continues.
Both major parties are quite happy with the system we presently have
^^^^^Exactly. We have got to demand changes from our politicians and the political system as a whole and accept nothing less.
Easier said than done of course.
Exactly. We have got to demand changes from our politicians and the political system as a whole and accept nothing less.
Agree with this. I was at a senior national Local Authority event and a well known Chief Exec prefaced his speech with "im going to say something contraversial". He went to explain that whilst the Government has alledgedly no more money to give to local goverment, in fact local government should stop whining about budget cuts and stand up to Ministers and get in thier face about demanding change to support the public.
We of course should do the same. Im not exactly sure how though...
Labour should also shoulder some responsibility for the collapse of the banks due to there toadying around big business and the light touch of regulation.
I believe current Labour does recognise that.
What we should be asking is does the present system of government actually work
No.
and does it need a major overhaul
Yes
Voting for either party will not change things dramatically if this 2 party stranglehold continues.
Revolution it is then comrades.
I'm in!
The truth is we probably need a revolution.... trouble is the most popular cause got 51% of the vote.
What we need is less of a circle jerk.
Maybe if the miners hadn't been so foolish as to back the quite impossible demands of the unions then Prime Minister Thatcher wouldn't have been forced to act so robustly.
German wages are higher than ours. taxes are much higher
Of course we can easily afford high quality public services. We just have to have fair taxation of individuals and companies. Start with the big tax dodgers like starbucks and Amazon. Very simple to do. tax on turnover not profits as all they do is export all the profits. Easy to identify the companies that do this. Then start on all the tax loopholes for individuals including the reduction in NI for the high earners and tax free dividends.
As Corbyn says – he knows where the magic money tree is — offshore in tax havens
Well, having actually lived in Germany. Taxes are not higher ... they factor in health insurance as part of what the "refer" to tax.
German wages are higher - but you pat for health insurance. And 10 Euro every time you go to a medic . pharmacy , days in hospital ....
There unemployment and pension benefit are somewhat less generous that the UK .
Germany also has Amazon, Starbucks and Amazon ... our didn't you know that. Jean Claude Juncker set up the take haven in Luxembourg Europe wide for them ...
Jeremy is wrong ... there is no magic money tree, It just the tax payer ...
German wages are higher than ours. taxes are much higher
Of course we can easily afford high quality public services. We just have to have fair taxation of individuals and companies. Start with the big tax dodgers like starbucks and Amazon. Very simple to do. tax on turnover not profits as all they do is export all the profits. Easy to identify the companies that do this. Then start on all the tax loopholes for individuals including the reduction in NI for the high earners and tax free dividends.
As Corbyn says – he knows where the magic money tree is — offshore in tax havens
Well, having actually lived in Germany. Taxes are not higher ... they factor in health insurance as part of what the "refer" to tax.
German wages are higher - but you pay for health insurance. And 10 Euro every time you go to a medic . pharmacy , days in hospital .... Tax is about between 30 -50% ... just like most of Europe ...
Their unemployment and pension benefit are somewhat less generous that the UK .
Germany also has Amazon, Starbucks and Amazon ... our didn't you know that. Jean Claude Juncker set up the take haven in Luxembourg Europe wide for them ...
Jeremy is wrong ... there is no magic money tree, It just the tax payer ...
German wages are higher than ours. taxes are much higher
Of course we can easily afford high quality public services. We just have to have fair taxation of individuals and companies. Start with the big tax dodgers like starbucks and Amazon. Very simple to do. tax on turnover not profits as all they do is export all the profits. Easy to identify the companies that do this. Then start on all the tax loopholes for individuals including the reduction in NI for the high earners and tax free dividends.
As Corbyn says – he knows where the magic money tree is — offshore in tax havens
Well, having actually lived in Germany. Taxes are not higher ... they factor in health insurance as part of what the "refer" to tax.
German wages are higher - but you pay for health insurance. And 10 Euro every time you go to a medic . pharmacy , days in hospital .... Tax is about between 30 -50% ... just like most of Europe ...
Their unemployment and pension benefit are somewhat less generous that the UK .
Germany also has Amazon, Starbucks and Amazon ... or didn't you know that. Jean Claude Juncker set up the take haven in Luxembourg Europe wide for them ...
Jeremy is wrong ... there is no magic money tree, It just the tax payer ...
Middle of the road moderate and sensible policy ideas aren't sexy enough to win swing voters in decent numbers, so both parties seem hell bent on going full throttle into trying their best to get their nutcases on the fringes sufficiently frothy that they'll be unable to contain themselves on polling day.
I still maintain any constituency that can't get a 50% turnout and a clear majority should have it's MP chosen at random from the electoral roll. It has to be better than suffering to appease party followers
Maybe if the miners hadn’t been so foolish as to back the quite impossible demands of the unions then Prime Minister Thatcher wouldn’t have been forced to act so robustly.
She wanted revenge.