Putting a 17yo through one of those intense driving schools?

How many hours of driving does the intense course provide? Would they be as experienced at the end of it as the middle kid with 45 hrs of driving? I wouldn't want to rush anything like that.

I'd see if you can put them on your insurance for a bit, might work out cheaper to mix proper lessons with extra practice at home

Do you want them to learn to pass their test or to learn to drive?

45 is a lot isn't it?

I've seen a few young adults do it - seem quite a popular route in Germany.

45 lessons does seem high IMO. Covid did scupper it and set it back a bit.

I was primarily curious if anyone had used them or knew someone who had been through. If they are no good, then so be it.

I thought most people needed about 10 max?

I only had 5 back in the day

A week of intensive lessons is how I learnt to drive, was 30 years ago mind. Think I did about, 6-7hrs a day with the driving instructor, Monday to Thursday, practice test Friday morning, real test in the afternoon. Passed first time. Intensive method may work better for some than others. I like to think the standard my driving was no worse than that of my friends at the time, who took the more conventional path to learning.

I thought most people needed about 10 max?

That explains so much.

45 lessons, that's 45 hours of training from scratch to drive something in public, up to 3.5 tonnes and with no compulsory further testing for around 53 years.

I did my 3 tonne forklift qualification in around 36 hours and I already knew how to drive things. I'm also retested every few years as well.

Just putting that into perspective.

As scotroutes asked, do you want him to learn to drive or pass a test?

I was already driving for more than 15 years in the far east when I took a driving lesson/test in the UK.

Yes, I already know how to drive but according to my driving instructor I was driving like a hooligan boy racer, LOL!

It was hard to learn new driving style as my driving style was already part of my muscle memory but was then "taught" to drive for another 20 - 25 lessons in the UK. Arrgghhhhh!

One thing I learned from my driving instructor was fast acceleration (floor it) and heavy braking. LOL!

Joining the fast lane I was happy coz I could floor it but the heavy braking thing was a bit weird for me. It was also the first time I drove his new car (Citroen C3) or Citroen for me. I tried a couple of times the "racing style" gear changing (fast shifting) but he was not impressed, and also engine braking which he said was from last century. LOL!

One thing I learned from my driving instructor was fast acceleration (floor it) and heavy braking. LOL!

That's a bad habit because:

A: You'll use more petrol/Diesel
B: You are unpredictable and more likley to cause an accident.
C: you will wear out your brakes and tyres faster, so it will cost you money, even if you pay no attention to points A) and B).

That’s a bad habit because:

A: You’ll use more petrol/Diesel
B: You are unpredictable and more likley to cause an accident.
C: you will wear out your brakes and tyres faster, so it will cost you money, even if you pay no attention to points A) and B).

True on all the points, LOL!

Now I only do relax driving coz I am no longer in hurry.

I didn't do an intensive course but I only had a minimal number of lessons before I took and passed my test, maybe 8, so it's perfectly possible to do it. The main thing my parents insisted on was me having whatever the lessons are called after passing - I want to say PassPlus. I think it was an additional 4 lessons with the same driving instructor, each a half day, doing a mix of motorways, inner city driving, B roads, that kind of thing. That's where I learned to drive; the stuff before was just teaching me how to pass the test and I imagine that's all that will be taught on an intensive course.

I signed up for an intensive motorbike direct access course. Did not complete it, after a day I was completely frazzled and just not taking it in, it was too much too fast for my tiny brain and temper. Luckily the school were very cool about it and allowed me to defer the rest. But of the 6 other people in the group 3 passed first time I gather.

Progressive driving is the thing, you can look ahead.
So many of my friends accelerate up to junctions, or worse, when it's blindingly obvious that the traffic light is gonna change to red before you get there... just chill out.

@chewkw

I am no longer in hurry.

Wise words.. so many people try to drive too fast for no reason, it's not a competition or a race.

I did the military version of the intensive driving course/test. Made me no less safe than most other new drivers who pass after 10 hours behind the wheel.
I don’t recall the total number of hours driving, but it was quite a fair amount daily. Was quite a mentally tiring experience.
I passed first time. Had no accidents other than a minor car park prang in 30 years of driving.

45 lessons, either he needed them or the instructor was diddling him due to lack of work!

Intensive, not sure if this also applies to car licenses, but for LGV it's not uncommon for the guaranteed pass outfits to string out the retest/extra lessons so long that you give up and go elsewhere. We guarantee to get you through the test, just not in the next 12 months if you miss your first chance...

I thought most people needed about 10 max?

I only had 5 back in the day

10 was the "target" when i passed my test, most of my peers passed after about that many, sort of the 8-12 bracket.
Many of them crashed.

Think the normal now is more like 16-18, for friends of mine whose *kids* are now taking their licences. The test is harder to pass than it was. Less opportunity to make a mistake and get away with it.

Only person i know who needed the intensive course failed on it more than once, so their "pass or your money back" guarantee was suspended, they then had another 2 or 3 attempts whilst still at school, and gave up. Last i heard, Via a Facebook group, was that they eventually passed in their early 30's and proceeded to write off a number of cars then gave up driving.

I had about 18-20 lessons (not a very good instructor if i'm going to be honest) but passed first time and didn't have a crash until i was in my early 30's.

10 lessons before taking a test seems a bit short to me. Would take many that long just to learn how to control the car safely with gear changes ect.
But then 45 sounds like the top end. When I did mine a little over 20 years ago, my first "instructor" dragged me along week after week. I think I had a 2 HR lesson each week for 9/10 months. Got fed up and booked a test, binned him off and went to bsm for 2 x 2hrs which included the test. Passed second time due to not being taught anything by the original guy.
Had plenty practice in that time driving with family members so my car control was fine. Road craft was the bit that let me down. Ashley Neal on YouTube is great for that.

@rockhopper70 have you actually researched any driving instructors in your area that will provide the course? My daughter is turning 17 in april and we looked for an intensive course last summer for her to start this year.

First thing that put us off was the cost - around £2.5k minimum rising to £3k so about the equivalent of 50 to 60 individual lessons where I live. Secondly was availability - after phoning two instructors both recommend, who both were unable to have a week free at any point until November 2023 we gave up, booked her in for regular lessons. Granted we didn't phone a larger company. Both instructors also said that the test would need booking asap either way if your taking regular lessons or an intensive, and both would be approx at the same time anyway (Oct/Nov 2023) due to back logs.

Could be that both instructors were just unwilling to do intensive course - but both advertised it as an option. If I were you I'd start by phoning around, asking the driving instructors their thought, availablity and if it's a viable option for getting a quicker test in your area.

45 lessons, that’s 45 hours of training from scratch to drive something in public, up to 3.5 tonnes and with no compulsory further testing for around 53 years.

I did my 3 tonne forklift qualification in around 36 hours and I already knew how to drive things. I’m also retested every few years as well.

Absolutely this.

My lad had about 20-25 lessons (partly due to Covid lockdowns) and was out with me at least once a week after the first 10.

I learnt so much from him that I had forgotten in the 30+ years since I took my test, it was an eye-opener.

We bang on about poor standards of driving in this country and then we look for the quickest and cheapest way to get people through their test? Proper, thorough driver training is a societal investment. It's better for all of us. (As would re-testing)

I spent way too much of my motor claims years reading police and medical reports on tne outcome of young people's (mainly lads) driving.

I remember my first driving lesson, having only driven in a car park with my dad prior. Instructor got me to set off down my street, turn left at the end, about half a mile or so, it turns to a 60 limit road and he says "the limits 60, let's do that." So having never driven above walking speed before, I'm suddenly doing 60!! Seems bonkers.

Anyway, 10 lessons over 10 weeks with some practice as a provisional driver with my folks. That's 25 years ago though.

Ashley Neal on YouTube is great for that.

Not so much for dealing with VRUs, he's still struggling with what rights cyclists have on the road.

I took my daughter for a week's driving in August. It was called the under 17 driving school but I believe you can do it over 17 too. It was on an old airfield and was excellent. They have thousands of cones so set it up as a road system. She learnt some really good skills and had loads of practice driving - probably 4 or 5 hours a day for a week. You as the parent stay with them though they have instructors too once or twice a day. I would thoroughly recommend it. It was £360 which for the amount of driving involved is very good value.

As for the downsides, there are a couple. Firstly because it is aimed at under 17s, there is no test so you don't come out of it able to drive. Also, however good it is, it isn't like driving on real roads where most people are idiots. You have great visibility on an airfield. There are no blind left hand bends with vans parked on them. It obvioulsy isn't the same as an intensive week of driving on roads.

We did it because it has been impossible to get formal driving lessons where I live and although I was happy to take her out, I didn't want to do so before she had some understanding of what was involved.

I think I went through about 20 hours upto the test, so about 25 hours in total, circa 2004?

So a 35hour week probably isn't insufficient in that sense.

But:
1) Driving for 7+ hours is really hard work in itself. Especially around town rather than just racking up motorway miles which is all most people think about when they say "I drove for 3 hours, I'm tired".
2) I'd suggest learning for more than 2 hours is going to have diminishing returns in almost any subject. You need to give your brain time to digest what it's learning.

What's their work/school schedule like? Could you block book ~40 hours of lessons as 1-2 hours every morning for a month over the summer holidays? That would be far better unless there's a real time pressure.

1) Driving for 7+ hours is really hard work in itself. Especially around town rather than just racking up motorway miles which is all most people think about when they say “I drove for 3 hours, I’m tired”.

Agreed, but my understanding of those that do these courses, certainly the residential ones is whilst it's intensive it's not quite like that. A hour in the car, back for a debrief and chill. A few manoeuvres around the centre then a chill and another stint on the road. And repeat.

Random one......I've signed off a good number of residential driving courses as a DofE gold residential section so that's two birds with one stone if they are doing DofE. Alternatively I've signed off learning to drive as a skill section if you span it out over more than 6 months with weekly lessons.

I expect the apparent reluctance of the local instructors to commit to an intensive course is due to existing time slot commitments - it will be hard to manage the traditional 1/2hr slots with block bookings as most of the regular slots will be weeklies until they pass.

I had approx 10hrs of lessons but had been on the road on 50cc geared moped for over a year at that point so the road sense was already there and it was just the practice of driving. I already had my own car at that point anyway so could do practice driving with my parents and/or friends that had already passed (there were no age/experience restrictions on passengering back then).

As said the intensive may be a bit much without the time to process in between - unless there's no other options.

Only you can know your lad's temperament. The important thing is getting a balance of technical ability and proper roadcraft before you pass your test and get let off the leash.

You can help by taking him for drives as a passenger in the run-up to his birthday, getting him to actually look ahead, commentate on hazards etc. That will give you a sense of whether he needs more hours in the car with you to gain maturity.

TBH if someone took 45 lessons to learn then failing might be the best option, for them and everyone around them.

Hey Rockhopper,
I'm a driving instructor, here's my take on it - 45 is actually the national average for amount of lessons to pass, like all statistics its 95% right about 50% of the time though 😉
That just takes into account some people who take a really...really long time and a lot of lessons to pass.
I wouldn't recommend the intensive things really, it just melts their brain, I did my ADI training like that and I can vouch for the fact that it does, its the practice between the lessons that gets them there, get them on your insurance.
I try to get my pupils to do that, lessons aren't cheap (despite that you dont make loads of money either by the way!) and I appreciate that, I want them to get through on as few as possible.
Like a few people have said though, I think its more about them learning to drive properly than just passing a test, the driving test is too easy, mate of my son passed with no lessons when he was just over 17, that shouldn't be possible.
Its quite a responsibility unleashing a youngster, or any age of new driver, onto the roads unsupervised, they cant be too good a driver...

I had about 10 lessons, I think, but was already familiar with the basics because of years driving tractors. I’m not convinced an intensive course is necessarily a good thing. I think it would be unexpectedly fatiguing and once tired nothing is going to be learned.

Doesn’t protect you either if the instructor is rubbish. I had a lesson with my twin brother’s instructor and she was awful. Used to rest her feet on the dual controls, and when you stopped she’d push the brake a little bit harder to make sure you couldn’t move off until she was ready.

Oh ya ... The reasons I drove like a hooligan was due to the road signs, roundabouts and the lane discipline. For some reasons there seem to be excessive amount, LOL! The roundabout traffic light is completely new to me, What's this silly thing! Happily drove into the roundabout then the traffic light appeared in front of me and my driving instructor had to keep reminding me that I need to slow down, LOL! Speed limits, say whaattt ... there was no car so?

Then the lane discipline what is this? The other lanes were empty so I just accelerated, LOL! None of them make sense to me and getting fine with speed camera was completely new to me too. Changing lane was "fun" just indicate and move in while letting other cars sort themselves out. LOL! Well, that's the driving style in the far east but it was hard trying to remember what to do and what Not to do while driving on the UK roads.

However, traffic jams were the norm in the far east like for 1 to 3 hours but in the UK 1 hr jam will drive people up the wall, LOL! Luckily there was no traffic jams while I learned to drive in the UK, otherwise money wasted. Anyhow, my driving instructor found it funny when I started swearing at slow drivers but told me it was impolite. LOL! Nice bloke he is LOL!.

Even when my sister visited me she took some driving lessons before driving with her international license in the UK for a year. Well, I told her to because of the different rules.

Thanks for the constructive replies, food for thought.

It might not help, but for Christmas he was given a junior track day so in the summer, when he’ll be 17 and a bit, he’s taking out a McLaren 720s, 911 GT3 RS and a Maserati GT around Elvingtin airfield. Start as you mean to go I suppose.

I did an intensive course, though instead of 5 days of 7 hours, I think it was about 10-11 days of 4-5 hours or something.
I was 21 at the time, passed first time.

The most important thing for me was finding an instructor who I got on with. I preferred one who was mostly quiet with the odd instruction, rather than constant nit-picking about going though red lights, speeding and clipping cyclists etc.

I did 7 weeks at 2 hours per week back in 2000. I thought an hour was silly as you spend at least 10 mins getting setup and talking about what you're going to be doing/have been doing each lesson. I was passed my test in 10-12 weeks. This gave me a decent amount of time behind the wheel, was done fast and I could still fit it around other things.

Random one……I’ve signed off a good number of residential driving courses as a DofE gold residential section so that’s two birds with one stone if they are doing DofE.

Lolwut?

TBH if someone took 45 lessons to learn then failing might be the best option, for them and everyone around them.

Shite. I'd rather someone took 45 hours to learn properly than 10, go to an "easy pass" test centre and then head out thinking they know it all and killing themselves or someone else.

rockhopper70
Free Member
Thanks for the constructive replies, food for thought.

It might not help, but for Christmas he was given a junior track day so in the summer, when he’ll be 17 and a bit, he’s taking out a McLaren 720s, 911 GT3 RS and a Maserati GT around Elvingtin airfield. Start as you mean to go I suppose.

I personally think this is quite dangerous - kids at that age thrive on adrenaline and experiences and he'll be looking (consciously or otherwise) to try find that same high in whatever he's driving AFTER that event.

Lolwut?

Sorry - Google translate does not seem to do squirrel - you might need to elaborate.

It might not help, but for Christmas he was given a junior track day so in the summer, when he’ll be 17 and a bit, he’s taking out a McLaren 720s, 911 GT3 RS and a Maserati GT around Elvingtin airfield. Start as you mean to go I suppose.

My lad did this (passed the test beforehand though). Loved it (although there was only a few laps of actual driving). Hopefully they'll stick them in paddle or full auto cars though.

I think when I learnt 40 years ago the rule of thumb was recommended minimum number of hours was equal to your age. I passed first time with about that number although i probably did as much again driving with my dad and it was this extra that really made sure I was equipped to safely go solo.

Learning to drive the car is easy. Learning road craft is more time consuming. Way back in the early 90’s I had 12 lessons but my dad also made me drive him everywhere in between. By the time I had sat my test, I’d done hundreds of extra hours with him.

When I did my motorcycle test I did direct access. CBT, two full days on 125 and two half days on 600, over the course of a couple of weeks. Passed easily with no minors, as all I’d had to concentrate was learning the motorcycle riding. The road raft and traffic skills were second nature after 20 years of driving.

Not convinced that a short course is long enough for any new driver or rider to gain enough experience to be safe in modern traffic.

Sorry – Google translate does not seem to do squirrel – you might need to elaborate.

When I did DofE skills weren't considered to be fairly pedestrian tasks that the bottom percentile of the population can seemingly manage. Driving lessons IMO dont seem to be within the spirit of it, residential or otherwise.

DofE is supposed to be difficult.

that the bottom percentile of the population can seemingly manage

Yeah - a lot of people get the wrong idea of DofE, or get poor advice, and think of it in rather elitist terms. Seems you were dragged down that perception too. Shame.

Fortunately the shit old days are behind us.

Got any of those Young Driver places near you? Could get your under 17 year old a few miles under his/her belt before they even start on the road if its not birthday until June.