[Closed] Pushing kids at sport - I have a dilemma...

Going for a black belt at tae kwon do is very hard work. The motivation for that hard work needs to come from her. If she doesn't want to do it dont force her.

Is there any reason she can't go back to it later? assuming she hasn't been made to hate it by being pressured into it now.

I'd let it go, especially if she's passionate another sport. What's the point if she's going to pack it in straight after getting the belt. I won't mean anything to her in the long run.

I took my son for ages to football and he was into it I pulled him out when stated been disruptive. But a few years on he loves football and I'm ready to take him back now.

Is there any reason she can't go back to it later?

From what I understand, once you get black belt, you are always a black belt. If she packed in now and wanted to go back to it she'd have to start at a much lower grade depending on instructors opinion.

From what I understand, once you get black belt, you are always a black belt. If she packed in now and wanted to go back to it she'd have to start at a much lower grade depending on instructors opinion.

Nah - she keeps the belt she's at. She might want to regrade at her current belt, but there's no way she should be made to go down a few belts.

That sounds like a no, it would slow her progress but that's all. If you pressure her to do it she might hate it forever.
And you dont get that far without being keen, she is probably frustrated that her progress in a sport she [i]is[/i] passionate about is being held back, you don't say how old she is but 4 months can seem like an age to a youngster.

I understand the dilemma, but if she gets her black belt and then stops, she will only be a Black belt in name only. If she went back two years later the blue belts would kick her butt.

Iirc she's about 12 same age as my lad? I'd let her follow her heart. She can go back to TKD if she wants.

Facing a similar problem with a gymnastic obsessed daughter wanting to quit swimming lessons.

What have you lot got against gymnastics 🙂

She's 13 in December.

I would make her as

1) she has worked a long time to get there and most dont make it - teaches we complete what we started

2) she is so close its pointless not to it its not like she is 2 years off

YMMV

The training leading up to a black belt grading can be very intensive. There is probably a lesson for her to learn from seeing this one through and feeling the reward of working hard and achieving something.

Although if she's really not enjoying it though obviously don't insist she continues. It's not exactly a bad trade, TKD for gymnastics.

children are notoriously poor decision makers

Evening. I stopped at brown belt (not TWD).

I just got to the point where I was enjoying other stuff more. It happens, why push? She may comeback to it but any negative memories will block that. My sons drifted into football but yearns to go back to bmx. It's my job to keep him happy and engaged not push.

People [s]children[/s] are notoriously poor decision makers

Push her to be a black belt for what reason? What will she get out of being forced to pursue a pastime that she doesn't enjoy? It's not like she's dropping all sport to be a moody teen.
I enjoyed rugby and so did my dad. I played from under 8's up to county rugby at u16. All I really wanted to do from age of 5 was ride my bike. Rugby stopped after my county season and I've not played since. My dad always says it was a shame I stopped playing. Still ride my bike, still love it, still my passion.

Pretty much every successful sports person enjoys what they do. Some don't start as early as your daughter and are still successful.

Take from that what you will.

Pretty much every successful sports person enjoys what they do.

What if their heart isn't in it? Perhaps they take up another sport, hoping for fame, glory and money, only to find that they're not really very good at it. Then, they scurry off back to their original sport, even if it is a minority one no one cares about.

😉

OP - If she's not enjoying the TKD, at this age if you were to push her, it may manifest in other problems. I'd say, encourage her to do what she wants to do, what she feels is best for her. Don't downplay the TKD, though, play on the positives of the gymnastics. Perhaps you'll get her to enjoy both. I suppose my key thought here is, if you push even slightly, it'll come back and bite you!

If she completes her black belt then she'll never experience the hollow despair of defeat. What kind of childhood is that?!?

CaptainFlashheart - Member
What if their heart isn't in it? Perhaps they take up another sport, hoping for fame, glory and money, only to find that they're not really very good at it. Then, they scurry off back to their original sport, even if it is a minority one no one cares about.

I reckon someone who displays the characteristic to which you refer was probably a bit naff at the "another sport" at that point in time. Oh and 😉

If she completes her black belt then she'll never experience the hollow despair of defeat. What kind of childhood is that?!?

Eh? Having a black belt doesn't make her unbeatable for the rest of her life.

We had a similar dilema with out youngest over football.

She played at the highest level a schoolkid can and a few of the coaches said the England team would be an achievable goal.

After 4 seasons she got into the U17s then decided she didn't like football any more. Just like that gave it all in.

I had a chat to make sure she was thinking straight but didn't push it.

It was dropped and she went on with her life just without football.

14 months later she decided she wanted another go and now plays for a senior womens team but not at the same level. However she is enjoying it immensly and quite probably could get to a high level if she wanted to - but she doesn't.

Oddly enough my wife got to a 2nd dan at TKD (or something equivalent) when she was in her teens. She gave it up as she stopped enjoying it. At 35 she joined a local club with me and the girls to see if we all liked it. Within 2 sessions she had her form and speed back and made the instructors question how she had learned some of the form.

We didn't stick with it as there wasn't much passion to go but it proved that things are not forgotten.

In a boring personal statement for UCAS application kind of way I'd encourage preserving and getting the black if it's achievable without a massive hissy fit (if she plans to go to uni). They love that shit (and music tops grades), but are singularly unimpressed by folk bothering to mention anything but the top grade available(I know it isn't actually the top available, but the the first grade to impress an ignorant admissions officer). It's an all or nothing kind of mentality.

Yes, being able to throw people around in your pyjamas has absolutely nothing to do with writing a good History dissertation and yes it's a crap reason to persevere with a sport but in the real world it might make the difference.

Have a chat with her coach? (I assume she has one?) They must have seen stuff like that?

I wonder if it's a fear of failure thing - give up rather than try and fail? Obviously I don't know her so it's not supposed to come across as judgemental, but sometimes people do prefer to quit than fail. As a few others have said, the learning she gets from working hard to a goal and achieving will stand her in good stead as an adult - so long as it's done because she wants to.

My career has been an utter mess but I keep going because I remember how it felt to win running races at school - and I still want that feeling of success. Without that early learning of perseverance, hard work and feeling of success I think my life would be a real mess right now -I'd have quit.

if I could get a black belt in 4 months I'd love to. Clearly from my starting point it'd take years. Anyway, when she's older, being able to call herself black belt will be pretty cool. Brown belt (is that the next one down?) is nowhere near as impressive.

OP, talk to your daughter and ask her what her thoughts are, why she wishes to stop now. IME she is at an age where;

1) she wants to make her own decisions
2) she wants to express indendence, I'd do the opposite of what her parents say potentially especially her mother
3) she realises TKD isn't a "girls sport", ie the cool girls who get the boys don't do martial arts

In my view we should expose our kids to as many opportunities as possible. You are right to point out how close she is to something special and to see something through till completion but equally of she doesn't care about the sport why force her to go through it ? Also what impact will this have on her school work and also potentially her relationship with you ?

Good luck, you're the parents do what you think is right

Pretty much every successful sports person enjoys what they do

I think you could pull a long list of tennis players out that would counter that - they were pressured into it by their parents.

Show her this gif from the gifs thread :

[img] [/img]

Thanks all - we'll try and talk. We still want her to reach her target, and I'll admit there's an element of me not wanting her to do what I did as a kid and packing in when it got tough.

She's gone all 'Kevin and Perry' on us, so conversations are usually met with grunts and you don't understands! 😀

She say's she can't do the theory (learning the Korean meanings for everything), but she hasn't got a question wrong since her 1st grading. So we know she can do it, and do it well.

Brown belt (is that the next one down?) is nowhere near as impressive.

She does TAGB (ITF - the proper Tae Kwon Do 😉 ), so she's black stripe at the minute...

[img] [/img]

Problem solved she puts tae kwon do on her ucca form and says she attained the level of 1st kup only a geek would spot that isn't the top level.

I would never push anyone who is that good at a martial art, not going to end well for you if she does one of those karate kid flying kicks to you face.

We still want her to reach her target

There is the crux of the matter, its not her target any more, its yours.

What's wrong with gymnastics? My daughter is completely obsessed with it, and jacked in ballet for it. As long as she's doing a healthy activity in a good environment I'm happy with it. It's a sport and at that age it should be fun.

my parents didn't push me at all when I was younger and I have plenty of regrets now. I wasn't mature enough to make the right decisions myself (I was basically a bit lazy) and I really needed parents to nag me a bit more. I had some brilliant opportunities that I let pass me by and I could have done with a parent who would make the decision for me in my best long term interests.

So far, and so close, I would do everything possible to encourage your daughter to achieve her black belt. She will thank you for it in the long run.

[quote="Kryton57"]
Pretty much every successful sports person enjoys what they doI'm guessing you don't know a huge number of successful sports persons?

Let it go

Have been through the same thing with ours swimming cricket xc running martial arts gymnastics dance scouts whatever

Your adult mentality wants to see things through to a conclusion but ime kids aren't like that they just want to experience stuff.

She also does gymnastics and [b]her heart is in that[/b], she practices all the time and [b]it's all she talks about[/b].

Seen a few pushy parents in climbing and cycling,it never ends well.
As sweepy says,it's not her goal anymore.

What's wrong with gymnastics?

Nothing, nothing at all. She can do it as much as she wants (in four months time!).

We aren't really pushy parents, but we feel that if we let her stop now we'd have failed her in some small way.

I would have to throw it back to the OP and first ask what does your daughter achieving a black belt in TKD mean to you? and why? Is this colouring your assessment of the situation? If she was giving up Hockey in favour of Soccer would you feel the same way?

With regards to your daughter does she like to compete? does she seem like she might like combat? Could she go forward and win titles? Is she potentially a future Olympian? (an incredible but financially useless achievement) Could she diversify, learn a real combatative martial art and become the next Ronda Rousey?

Unless she has a real prodigious talent for it, which you see her squandering then I'd have to say let it go. Tell her she can do it, you want her to do it and you'll support her, but if she doesn't then it's okay.

I don't want to sound like i'm on a crusade or having a go in any way so I hope you take all my input in the spirit it is intended.

Your daughter is approaching the age when many girls are lost to sport entirely. If there is a sport she is passionate about support her in that, just be glad she is still keen on any sport.

I spent hours in my youth wandering the streets while my parents thought I was at an activity I no longer enjoyed.

Let's do a little thought experiment.

Would you still feel the same if you weren't allowed to tell anyone she'd got the black belt afterwards?

Your daughter is approaching the age when many girls are lost to sport entirely. If there is a sport she is passionate about support her in that, just be glad she is still keen on any sport.

Yes, I bet many parents would be very envious of your dilemma. Don't mess it up.

We aren't [b]really pushy parents[/b], but we feel that if we let her stop now we'd have failed her in some small way.

and that's how it starts.
Give her all your support in the gymnastics and enjoy sharing the ups and downs with her.Maybe help out at some events and get to know the gymnastics crowd.

Give her all your support in the gymnastics and enjoy sharing the ups and downs

You're thinking of trampolining

The four months are going to be very intense, tough pregrading sessions, a lot of pressure. Sounds like you need to discuss this with her instructor, perhaps postpone the grading so she can enjoy just training. From what I have seen, the training and pressure up to 1st kup is very different to what she is now experiencing.

my parents didn't push me at all when I was younger and I have plenty of regrets now. I wasn't mature enough to make the right decisions myself (I was basically a bit lazy) and I really needed parents to nag me a bit more. I had some brilliant opportunities that I let pass me by and I could have done with a parent who would make the decision for me in my best long term interests.

This was me ^

Parents were both county level at sport (dad at multiple sports) and they never really encouraged us so i ended up fat and lazy. Only now as an adult do i push myself and i've found there is some latent ability in there (especially now i've shifted the chub).

It's a difficult one with teenage girls, i've coached hockey for years and you can get a really good player just up and disappear on you with no warning. The enjoyment side of the sport she's doing is absolutely the most important thing. And have you seen gymnasts and what they can do? There are much worse sports out there for her

[quote=jambalaya]In my view we should expose our kids to as many opportunities as possible.

This x 1000.

The way I see it is life is a buffet table, how will she know what she really likes until she tries everything? Right now she really likes the sausage rolls but the pickled onions on sticks might blow her mind, she'll never know how they compare until she tries both. You are the custodian of buffet table and your job is to show her the pickled onions (or some sh*t like that :D)

[quote=twonks]
I had a chat to make sure she was thinking straight but didn't push it.

Also this, make sure she's thinking straight and making the decision for the right reason. Arm her with some facts, be there to support her and let her decide.

As an aside in my experience sport stopped being fun when it got too serious. I enjoyed cricket and basketball at school as it was a bunch of mates spending time running around and having a laugh. In 6th form it all got too serious belicose jobsworths on and off the court ruined it, so I got a mountain bike and look where that landed me!

All the best with whatever she decides, I'm sure she'll be fine.

Saw this this morning, barely on topic but "you've done this much, you may as well carry on" isn't always the right thing, just like making a cup of tea.

As for sport, the number of kids who drop out of sailing in their late teens is enormous, there's seemingly barely anyone in the sport at a grass roots level in their 20's. OK it's not the cheapest sport at the sharp end when your trying to save for a house, run a car and have a life all on a starting salary, but I think a lot of it is parent's (and the coaching setup) just stop it being fun. The ones who stick with it are usually the ones who've always sailed crap boats to mid-fleet results for the fun of it, or went straight into coaching rather than those who's parents threw time/money at it.

why not carry on with both.. after all its only 4 months out of 12years. Make a deal, at the end of 4months after the grading she can make the decision herself. You save the cash and time and she gets to do more gymnastics if thats what she wants. There is a level of pushiness up until they realise they can make the decisions and take the consequences.

Some great stuff on this thread, sweepy!

So many girls are lost to sport in their teenage years, never to return. It doesn't take much to create some negative associations and from what you've described OP, there's a big danger of this in your situation, however well-intentioned your approach is.

Good luck with it - your attentiveness, care and support can be a huge positive influence with what sounds like a sport your daughter really wants to do.

It's the giving up and the potential regrets bit that's key.

Another 4 months of commitment and hopefully that's over and she has achieved something.

It is doubtful that she will ever look back and regret getting the black belt, but chances are reasonable that she could regret not making the commitment to get it - could be the start of a life of underachieving and giving up on stuff.

Also might not be, but why take the risk as establish the beginning of a potential pattern?

You're thinking of trampolining

She does this as well (seriously!). Just once a week to help with gymnastics.

Thanks all - all comments taken on board, we may need to let this one go. And thanks for this sweepy...

Your daughter is approaching the age when many girls are lost to sport entirely. If there is a sport she is passionate about support her in that, just be glad she is still keen on any sport.

...we should be positive. I'll talk it over with the missus tonight and show her this thread.

At 12 going on 13 she should be allowed to do the sports she wants to, IMHO a child 'black belt' is not a real black belt, for me attaining dan grade was the start of learning a martial art, up until dan you are taught how to do do a technique or a pattern of techniques, after dan the real enjoyment/ science of the art is adapting those patterns/ techniques to your own style, this is the 'mastery' of the art not just learning a few words and coriagraphed movements.

Haven't read any of the previous comments, but this has reminded me of something.

When I was at school, one of the lads got his black belt (karate I think). Even then I realised his father was a pushy over bearing type.

Skip forward 30 odd years, I saw a picture of him (the son) on facebook a while back....he is huge.....and I don't mean in a good way. Obese!

So what relevance that has on your situation...not much I suppose.

If you daughter is still into something sporty and positive, I think you should back her up....She's still achieved a great deal....Be thankful it wasn't horse riding and you've just bought her a horse 😉

Tricky one, have no kids so can't comment on that side. However, like franksinatra, I wish I'd been pushed a bit harder as a teenager at sport. I'm pretty much rubbish at all sports, but I've always had decent stamina and was pretty naturally good at xc mtb. Raced youth cat well without too much effort, not quite podiuming but not far off (and this was mid nineties so 50-70 even in youth), went up to first year junior got thrashed by 18 ear olds for a few races and stopped racing, just rode dirt jumps and then stopped riding completely when i went to uni.
I've regretted not being pushed by my folks a bit to train and keep racing for a long time.
But then again, its that regret thats fueled me to keep training hard since I started riding again a couple of years ago.

Don't suppose she has friends in the sport that have just dropped out does she?

I was high county level/near national squad level in my youth but it got pretty hard when a couple of pals dropped out. Lost a bit of motivation and ditched myself, though to be fair a lot of that came with uni/job/beers/girls.

The effort for the black belt grading is not simply a continuation of what has gone before, it's usually at least a doubling of training time and being pushed a hell of a lot harder during those sessions. I have a question - does your daughter compete quite successfully at the level which she is at? If so, is she apprehensive about going from being successful in her current category to potentially being thumped by higher grades?

Not a parent, but, if she's got a passion for one thing it's bound to overrule others, do you want to distract from her main interest? It's not like she wants to sit at home and play Fallout. You can say "It's good to stick at it" but if you make her, she's not sticking at it really. And it all seems pretty arbitrary, not to mention maybe undermining her previous achievements if you make it all about the black belt.

Junkyard - lazarus

2) she is so close its pointless not to

Remember what it's like being 13? 4 months is a pretty decent chunk of her conscious life to date. It probably won't feel close for her.

I did a different sport to a pretty high level from the age of 13 to early 30s, most of that, training 6+ days a week and largely living my life around training and racing.

In the earlier years, I raced several other kids who were being pushed by their parents, shouted at when we beat them, etc. I always thought that was pretty awful. luckily none of my team had parents like that.

I did it because I wanted to. No pressure from my parents other than a general attitude of aiming high but if I'd wanted to stop they certainly wouldn't have questioned that decision beyond maybe checking that it wasn't a whim.

People I know who were pushed as kids tend not to be that happy IME. They may well be 'successful' be it in high flying jobs, achieving sporting results or whatever but that doesn't link to being happy.

I guess it really comes down to individual views on what's important. I know people who would consider wasting talent or 'under-achieving' to be unforgivable (applied to themselves or their kids) while others, including me, feel more that being happy is more important than outward success, even if they're typically of the high performing mindset.

I'm very conscious with my kids that I want them to do sports because I think it's a good thing for body and mind but really the motivation has to come from them. If they're happy bumbling along, not training much or achieving what they could then so be it so long as they're doing it and enjoying it. I think I naturally have to bite my tongue to avoid putting pressure to perform on them given my own mindset and I'm very aware of that so hopefully I avoid the pushy parent trap.

To the OP, let her do what she wants - she'll come back to do the black belt later if she wants.

Seen a few pushy parents in climbing and cycling,it never ends well.

At Battle on the Beach this year I was chasing around the kids course cheering my 8 yr old on. I was a little disturbed to see another father on the course itself bellowing at his daughter. Things like "Who told you to freewheel. Start pedalling.." and so on. Properly bellowing. The poor child looked really unhappy.

Remember what it's like being 13? 4 months is a pretty decent chunk of her conscious life to date. It probably won't feel close for her.

[quote="IdleJon"]I was a little disturbed to see another father on the course itself bellowing at his daughter. Things like "Who told you to freewheel. Start pedalling.." and so on. Properly bellowing. The poor child looked really unhappyHad this at a cross race i was organising a few years ago, three or four marshalls commented, so he was taken to one side it was explained very clearly to him that behaviour like that wouldn't be tolerated. He got an earful from his wife too, never done it since. His son still rides, lots.

why not carry on with both.. after all its only 4 months out of 12years. Make a deal, at the end of 4months after the grading she can make the decision herself

I have found with my kids (younger admitedly) they have dips and troughs of interest- what is brilliant one week isnt the next, they need encouraging through them sometime

We are much softer that our parents generation on our kids - mostly it is for the best but sometimes .....

I have a question: If you suggested delaying the grading for say 6 months or a year would your daughter continue with TKD?

Well we're 5 months down the line from the start of this thread and last night she picked up her Black Belt in Tae Kwon Do!

We went down to Bristol at the weekend for the grading assessment and her and fellow club mate passed with flying colours.

Down to her now if she carries on, but she seems to have renewed enthusiasm for it and hasn't mentioned stopping at all.

Sometimes kids do need a bit of a push!

Nice one muffin-daughter!

Congratulations to her!

Really glad this worked out for you all.

Sometimes kids do need a bit of a push!

I wouldn't push her. She could probably give you a good hiding now. 😉

Well done to your daughter Muffin Man!

Similar situation here. 11 year old son is showing promise at soccer but needs to work on speed and agility to play midefield.

There was an interesting prgramme on Radio 4 recently where they interviewed the parents of successful sports people. Common theme was facilitate and don't nag. The child has to want to do it themselves.

Good result.

However, speaking as a parent of grown up children, you got it wrong.

If you had followed the other course, you would have got it wrong as well of course.

In 15 years time expect the following conversation "You shouldn't have made me do ...."
And if you hadn't, "You should have made me do..."

There's no winning for a parent. 🙂

Had similar situation with my lad so I remember this thread, he's in his 3rd season at a football academy so U11's.

Every season around Jan/Feb he has a slump in his enthusiasm and starts with I'm not enjoying anymore , were not playing well as a team , so and so is so greedy and doesn't pass. I always say to him I will never force you to go so you make your choice but remember last season and the season before we get to March and the team gel and good performances come oh and don't think that means if you stop it's night after night of XBOX..

Academy football is very much about the development of each player not the team so results are not important but try telling that to the lads, parents are very much in the back ground so unlike grassroots with coaching and shouting on the side-lines is a strict no no.

Anyway he's got through his mid season slump and playing great at the moment and they beat their nearest rivals 4 0 at the weekend so I suppose my post is backing up what OP has stated and for all we can encourage our kids they have to want to do it but a little nudge is also acceptable.

Every season around Jan/Feb he has a slump in his enthusiasm and starts with I'm not enjoying anymore

Probably something to do with the weather as well. I know from my experiences that playing in the cold on various muddy pitches from November to February used to drain my enthusiasm for footy and rugby. Used to love the start of the season and the end of the season! Played summer league and loved every minute. Just as well I spend most of the worst months injured haha.

I am most definitely a fair weather sportsman.

Ekul - Firmly believe weather has a big part to play in it as well, his Granddad suffers from winter blues as they say and he has a lot of his traits in his character.

The one thing he doesn't suffer from though is muddy pitches as the facilities are first class with sand based grass pitches and if really bad either outdoor 4G pitch or an indoor one so he hasn't played on a pitch with a puddle or a divot in 4 years.

I make sure he keeps grounded by taking him down the local park to see what proper football is about!!

We had the precise issue. My eldest son fell out of love with TKD a few months before his final black belt grading (he was 13). We encouraged him to stick at it, but not force him to do so.

He decided to stick with it, although you could see his heart was not in it. He did however pass well and once a black belt, always a black belt. I'm sure he'll look back in later years and be glad that he did. He's given it up fully now and is concentrating on rugby.

I stopped at 2nd Kup...