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Afternoon all,
We've just got a new puppy (black lab, nearly 9 weeks old) and I wanted to get an idea of what different night time routines you've used that have been successful, it's very early days and we've done some research. Not stressing out yet as took some time off (and mostly WFH anyway) but wanted to learn from your experiences.
Not had second vaccinations yet so exercise is a bit limited.
First rule of STW, one must never, ever, post a puppy thread without photos of puppy.
Go away and have a long hard think about your actions.
I will send you a helpful reply when you undo the harm you have done and posted a puppy photo (Need big eyes, big paws and a cuddly toy for scale). If taking photo in garden, make sure grass, fence etc. are all in order)
Carry on.
First off make a safe and comfortable space for your puppy. Mine had a nice bed in a part of the kitchen under the table. It was, and still is six years later, her space. I'm not a fan of crates, although others may have a different view, but the kitchen was made absolutely puppy-proof with washable flooring and absolutely nothing in reach for chewing/damage/harm.
From the first night she was put there with an old towel that had her mum's scent on it. She was taken out for a toilet break before putting her to bed, and given newspaper for overnight "accidents" well away from her bed and water bowl.
She was left from midnight until 6 am. We ignored any crying and within a few nights the routine established itself.
Got up early and made getting her out into the garden a priority. Bags of praise for peeing or pooping outside, never scolding her for indoor accidents, but ensuring we recognised when she wanted to go out... they'll tell you, but you have to interpret the signs.
I don't think it ought to be any more complicated than that.
Oh, and yes of course we need pics......
Scapegoat has it. Although I (and the dog) am a fan of crates. Doesn't need to be shut in it, more use it as a den. But they are awesome when you stay elsewhere or in car as you are taking the dogs safe space with you.
we're quite a few months ahead of you with ours.
Have you got a crate? It's useful, especially when we go out as he will just go to sleep.
when we got him one of us stayed with him downstairs next to his crate as he was crying but by the third we were able to leave him and now he goes to bed when we do.
We've used to give him some treats at bed time and we have still have a kong toy that we fill up with some peanut butter so when it's time for bed he sees the toy being filled he goes to his crate for his kong.
Get a pillow with a pillow case of yours to put in his crate too. preferably unwashed so it has your smells. This helps comfort them.
We're lucky that he tends to follow our routine and doesnt seem to mind staying in until we get up.
This. Doesn't have to be a thing that they are shut up in for hours, but should be a safe space for them away from things like vacuums and small children.
Giving in on the first night will make it harder as time goes on too. In addition to small dogs taking up a really quite amazing amount of space, you'll end up with a dog that cannot understand why it is not allowed on the bed when it weight 20kg, smalls of fox poo and is caked in dead badger.
On toilet training, walk last thing before bed and be prepared for mishaps. When you are still around (kitchen, lounge, whatever) and you see the puppy getting distracted, take it outside, wait for pooping or wee and then praise and treat. Walk first thing in the morning, or at least take into garden and continue with the praise.
Times have changed on the opinion of whether to leave a dog to 'cry it out' or not. Currently the thinking is you're doing more harm than good as they're crying as they need your reassurance and by the time they've stopped crying they've given up hope and not learnt to cope. You wouldn't leave a baby to cry it out and the thinking is the same with puppies now, similar thinking to the quiet children are often those left most traumatised. We're bringing home my third puppy in June and will be going for the approach of a crate in the place where the dog will eventually be expected to sleep the night and I'll sleep next to him for the first few weeks until he's settled and learnt that I'm there. My first puppy we left to cry it out and she definitely suffered with separation issues, then my second we would stay with her until she fell asleep and when she woke again would return to let her outside and settle her back down and she was extremely confident to be left alone throughout her life.
Have you been taking him/her out in a bag or your arms until they're too heavy to carry so they can begin the vital socialisation? I've been swotting up in preparation and found 'easy peasy puppy squeezy' and easy to read book. While young and in the super needy phrase start pegging down that recall and again I found 'total recall' an excellent book to read. I'm bringing home a hunt point retrieve breed so recall is vital.
I think it depends where their intended sleeping spot is going to be. Ours sleep in the bedroom with us, so we worked towards that.
When we got the latest at 8 weeks, one of us slept downstairs with him on the sofa so that he could be let out if he needed it, whilst the other slept upstairs with our older dog. As pup gradually got better at holding it in overnight, when he was up to 5 hours without needing the loo we moved him upstairs for the night. Think we had maybe one overnight accident when we didn't wake up to him needing out, but that was it. We then moved him from sleeping on our bed to sleeping on his bed on the floor - took a couple of nights for him to be OK with that. 7 months old now and sleeps on the bed if allowed or on his bed if told, no issues, no crying, etc.
Dogs sleeping on your bed?! No thanks.
If you don't like it, don't do it. No one's forcing you to.. 🙄
We used to go downstairs and wander into the kitchen where her crate is whenever she started crying, we didn't create a huge fuss but she'd settle pretty quickly.
Eventually she started waking less and less, she'll generally sleep through now until either of get up.
Won't lie though we were shattered those first couple of months.
She had a few indoor accidents though none in her crate, in fact most were probably us missing the signs. We never made a big deal of it, just put her outside and she soon got the message.
Can't believe I didn't post a pic. Hope this link works, I shall surrender my premium membership in shame.
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Current setup is a crate in the lounge, I've spent the last two nights on the sofa to help reassure when the crying starts. Can't walk yet as still waiting on 2nd vaccinations but I'm sure that'll also help out.
We set up a crate near (but not too near) a radiator and covered it in blankets, just leaving the door end exposed. We settled him in the crate from day one, making it his safe space. We had to have the crate downstairs, as much as we wanted him upstairs our elderly cat would probably have murdered him and she needed her safe space too.
There were many weeks of getting up in the middle of night to take out to the toilet, but the gaps got longer and eventually he could hold it in between 11 and 7. We didn't bother with newspaper or puppy pads for more than a couple of days, I didn't want him to think that was the norm. I bought a couple of squares of fake grass and set up a patch in our courtyard and made a point of taking him on those each time. It paid off as accidents were pretty minimal, unless we were just very lucky with him!! We trained him to tap a bell on the back door when he needs the toilet, it was crazy at first as he did it all the time, but now he's nailed it!!
The best tip I'd have it getting an Amazon Blink Mini camera and setting it up so you can have a view of the crate when you need it. That way in the middle of the night we could see if he was barking/crying and was distressed and choose whether to get up or not (you can also speak through the camera! It also meant I could just stick on the Spotify 'Calming music for dogs' playlist on the Sonos which totally chilled him out. It worked a treat, we had about 10 bad nights of barking early on - he's been fine since!! Yes, OK, it might be a bit weird, but from your bed you can check he's OK, dial up or down some calming music and it's all good!
Phantom pregnancy saw the end of the crate for our dog, after she destroyed the door to a point where it could no longer be bent back into shape enough to close cleanly. She now sleeps on her bed/the floor/the sofa bed in our spare room after an unsuccessful phase of sleeping in the hall and getting disturbed by passing people/cars too frequently. Ideally I'd still have the crate, but this was already the second, third if you include the shredded travel crate.
Our idiot is a special case though.
Used a crate with appropriate cusion/blanket/toys, as above, not to lock him in, it was just a convienient way to make a little den/safe space for him.
Kept it next to the bed for a while till he settled and now he basicaly sleeps wherever he feels like, normaly next to me on my bed lol! no children so it doesn't really matter where he sleeps.
The crate is only really used for transport now, although it's still there if he wants to retire to it during the day for some quiet time.
this is very timely! we got a new lab on sunday, 8 weeks old. We also have a 2 yr old GWP (2nd one) who was crate trained and this pup will be the same. GWP was left to howl but not extremely this stopped after first week roughly but we got up maybe once in the night and we get up at 6.30 anyhow. She is really well adjusted (as much as any GWP can be) can be left for long periods if needs be but isn't very often. GWP is currently in the dining kitchen, (not in crate ditched for her after about 6-9mnths). unitl pup is more settled. New pup is in crate in living room, took to the crate really well, big blankets over etc, but is howling like a banshee at night from initial separation from litter mates. We are going for taking her out last thing with other dog to pee/poo, lots of praise for doing it then straight back in to crate with treat. no water in crate but soft toys and a section of vet blanket from her litter plus warming pad, needs settling then left till about 3/3.30 no matter whether squawking then up and out for a pee or just to stand around in the dark... then back to crate, treat and setlled and left till 6.30. We are worried/questioning about leaving her crying out but it worked for our kids and they're ok also previous 2 pooches also ok so sticking with it but not stressing out if we have to get up when it gets too much for us or dog. totally knackering though. no dogs on beds or furniture for us and not allowed upstairs as we have an elderly cat. I would say though the more relaxed you are about whatever approach you take the better though. your stress is what i think dogs pick up more than if they're given tough love or allowed on a bed, you are after all the pack leader! so what you decide goes not the dog!
however this is only day 3 so this approach may change to more tough or less depending on how pooch 2 settles!
OK not Pack leader if you prefer but in charge then, you make the rules, set behavioral standards for dog to follow about whats acceptable to be a part of your family group etc not to be too pedantic about it....
With hindsight, I'd have let her sleep with us sooner as that's where she's ended up anyway and everyone would have got more sleep 🙂
We started off with a crate but she never really seemed to see it as a safe space, although she'd happily jump in there for a bedtime biscuit after last wees. She'd sleep anywhere she fancied as a puppy, now her favourite spot is under the kitchen table.
She's awesome in other ways though so I don't hold the sleep thing against her, although currently in the midst of her first season and taking out her unspent energy on my garden. Living the labrador dream though, managed to fit two tennis balls in her mouth earlier today!
The puppy in question (EDIT:the colon was missing from the address OP and it seems this forum doesn't like the link type from IG too).
@matt_outandabout thanks!
@fenboy it wasn't from the greater Manchester area by any chance?
Thanks for the hints and tips everyone!
@labsey no ours was from the Fife Riviera, the Wire Haired Pointer was from Preston though!
Good Luck with it! So rewarding having a dawg or 2 in your life!
Jnr Pup was up 3 times last night and the wife is threatening to send her back! So it can be tough but they all get there in the end! I think the most valuable thing we've learned was just to be consistent with how you decide to train the dog and stick at it. We weren't so much with dog 1 and varied techniques but we were with dog 2 and the difference was amazing, so dog 3 should be perfect but its also a lab which on paper is easier to train than a GWP who are challenging to say the least! we'll see 😉
How are you getting on?