[Closed] Public sector workers what are your next steps???

stand as an mp at the next election.
Become a real parasite.

Obligingly bend over to facilitate easy shafting ?

Feeble troll, 0/10.

Any worth their salt will not get into a debate on the internet about their employer, they're non-political as employees don't you know?

Or are you hoping for an outpouring of utter panic from public sector; 'cos that won't happen, par for the course Sir.

Or maybe you hope it will result in some nasty private/public debate.

Either way, it's a yawn from me.

Watch as me and my colleagues get asked to do more, paid less and have less and less certainty about our futures. Lovely, looking forward to it.

hey bearnercessities not a troll,realistically for a lot of PUBLIC servants it will mean a career change so what are the options when jobs are scant especially in the north

and maybe folk should stand up for the services offered by PUBLIC servants?

hey bearnercessities not a troll,realistically for a lot of PUBLIC servants it will mean a career change so what are the options when jobs are scant especially in the north

and maybe folk should stand up for the services offered by PUBLIC servants?

Fair 'nuff, benefit of doubt and all that, but your thread title and op smacks of provocation, intentional or not.

If you want to start a debate on the value of PS, then some more effort to sway the thread that way may help.

Anyhow, time to jump out, I don't like shouty threads and I my spidey senses are already tingling...

(and it won't mean a career change for a lot, more like a lack of opportunities for those looking for jobs as natural wastage won't be filled)

Get a job in the private sector?

(there, I've said it - that should keep the OP happy for a while).

My next steps as a public sector worker? To continue to serve the people of the district to the best of my abilities. I don't expect any private sector [s]whores[/s] employees to understand the concept of serving the community, the party you voted in don't.

yossarian, well said.

My next steps as a public sector worker? To continue to serve the people of the district to the best of my abilities. I don't expect any private sector whores employees to understand the concept of serving the community, the party you voted in don't.

Total UK public sector employment 5.697 million (2013 Q1 figures, source ONS)

144,000 difference is barely a rounding error!

I cant speak for everyone and wont try.

When I was in the CS (latterly the CSA - sorry!)I did relatively **** all. I didn't really know it at the time because my exposure to actual work wasn't sufficient enough to realise that fact.

Leave.

Find something less futile and better paid.

It WILL be harder.

You WILL rise to that challenge.

You will probably be rewarded better.

If you don't - you are the reason that the CS is shite.............

Browse STW.

Do your job to the best of your ability for the time you are paid to do it just as any private sector employee would do.

Live in fear of losing your job, reduced wages, pensions and working terms and conditions. It's an employers paradise...all voted in by the employees.

Turkeys and Christmas.

😆 El Bent.

Of course we know the private sector represents the model of efficiency to which we should all aspire. No waste there, no sir.

[biting] ..and to the OP, you were very quick to defend troll accusation, but you appear [s]to have passed out[/s] are too busy to steer the thread to a constructive outcome.

Enjoy your satisfying private sector job, which you clearly must be very happy and secure in! [/biting]

Turkeys and Christmas.

And not least because so many appear to be utterly ignorant of how much the private sector depends on the public sector.

Pay [s]freeze[/s] cuts are the headline issue not redundancies. What to do about that? Spend less, watch economy shrink, paycut, spend less, economy shrink...

Who knows what I will do but I will be in Manchester tomorrow with many other 'enemies of promise' standing up for standards.

Of course we know the private sector represents the model of efficiency to which we should all aspire. No waste there, no sir.

Do you bloody mind, that waste your talking about is me.

Makes yet another cup of coffee

Ernie. Aye and it would be helpful to us all if we remembered we all depend on each other. Especially if we showed a little more respect for those paying our wages.

ninfan you're an accountant aren't you?

although I agree with the facts in your post
That's still 144,000 [b]People![/b] who will be out or work and in hard times, many of which are doing a good job and will no doubt find it hard to find another job.

hopefully the majority will be natural wastage and not too many will be put into sever financial difficulties.

Think I'll go get a beer and settle in for this one 🙂

It does wind me up how every time we have one of these people trot out the same "Doing it for the people", "Not in it for the money" and implies that anyone in the private sector is just there to make as much as possible and doesn't really care.

I feel for those on the front line, working flat out to try and do stuff. In general it's a lack of direction or organisation that means people are left to work like that. In efficiency terms the biggest waste is talent, if some of these changes mean more of the right people doing the right things rather than stuff they don't need to do, then all the better.
Having passed through some ex public sector places there is enough glaring inefficiency and down right lazyness to save a lot of money, that doesn't mean everyone is at it. A general cull of the coaster and wasters wouldn't be a bad thing and would probably help a lot of the people left. The only down side is they will never put their hand up to go as they know they are onto a very good thing.

These kind of 'redundancies' are normally achieved through natural wastage (retirement. leavers etc). so it is a bit of a sensationalist headline. The problem is for the ones who remain as they are usually expected to do more work for the same money, usually for an unsympathetic public.

What would they do if this happened in France? 🙂

Especially if we showed a little more respect for those paying our wages.

If you say that to me at work you won't get any respect it's such a foolish comment.

We've been going under a huge review and it's slowly coming to an end there's been some rejigging of staff to different locations but everyone has a job. They've also created 6 new jobs in my area alone that's an increase of 50%, guess who gets those staff to look after. 😕

Still I should find out what they're doing with my role eventually it's only been 7 years since our review was due. 😀

144,000 job cuts isn't bad really when you consider the huge number in the public sector I reckon most of those will be swallowed by retirement onto our massive pensions.

Of course I could go for a job in the private sector then spend all day posting on STW like the rest of them complaining about not having a pension and how much hard workers we are then the public sector.

Pay [s]freeze[/s] cuts are the headline issue not redundancies. What to do about that? Spend less, watch economy shrink, paycut, spend less, economy shrink...

Indeed. Guess which sector of the economy I spend my money in. (Hint: it's not the public sector.)

We've had a pay freeze for the last couple of years. That's cash I would have spent in the private sector.

These kind of 'redundancies' are normally achieved through natural wastage (retirement. leavers etc). so it is a bit of a sensationalist headline. The problem is for the ones who remain as they are usually expected to do more work for the same money, usually for an unsympathetic public.

That's how we've been doing it for the last few years.

My job's (reasonably) secure, but I've had a 4% increase in the number of hours I teach, with each class now being bigger because we've not been replacing staff as they leave, unless absolutely necessary. However good my intentions or work ethic, that means each student gets less of my time, energy and attention. That means the private sector gets slightly less well educated employees in the future.

I thought the obvious answer would be:

Watch as the bold crusaders of the labour party ride to the rescue. Staunch believers in social justice as ever, they fearlessly rush to defend the rights of workers against a party of millionaires, as they once again punish the poor and the low-paid! Using them as a scapegoat for a crisis caused by their rich friends in the City! Who once again get away with it, completely unaffected!

Oh....

[img] [/img]

what you need is a proper leftie to sort this mess out
[img] [/img]

Or maybe a true master of finance, to balance the books....

[img] [/img]

We really are ****ed, aren't we?

[img] [/img]We also have a spare PM you can have, she is British and everything

There was a teacher on TV last night saying that now her and her colleagues won't be guaranteed a pay rise every year, they'll be voting with their feet. Presumably they'll be entering a particular sector of private working where people always get pay rises.

Does anyone know which sector she was talking about?

You're all British, mike. 😉
Actually she looks quite attractive there.

We really are ****ed, aren't we?

Yep, and left to sleep in the wet patch too!!

samuri - Member - Quote
You're all British, mike.
Actually she looks quite attractive there.

Public sector workers what are your next steps???

Towards the job centre?

I wouldn't worry. The private sector is crying out for the kind of thrusting, go-getting, flexible and highly motivated individuals you tend to encounter when dealing with the local council, for example

I am going to carry on doing my job. Getting a payrise this year too, because I live in civilisation, with a real government.

Germany?

was a teacher on TV last night saying that now her and her colleagues won't be guaranteed a pay rise every year, they'll be voting with their feet. Presumably they'll be entering a particular sector of private working where people always get pay rises.

Does anyone know which sector she was talking about?

Yes; a work to rule, so no free lunchtime study support, no sports teams,Duke of Edinburgh, no Ski trips. Oh and there has been no increase for 3 years now so dunno where the automatic pay rise is.

At what point do they say enough is enough? If you act like a doormat then you'll get walked over. Time to stand up for yourselves.

[quote=ohnohesback ]At what point do they say enough is enough? If you act like a doormat then you'll get walked over. Time to stand up for yourselves.

Yep 5% on income tax and pay rises for all 🙂
While your at it 5p on fuel, 10p on drink and £1 on fags

[img] [/img]

Rise up comrades! You have nothing to fear but Ed Milliband's lukewarm support 😆

You'll get that anyway from this Axis of Evil. But no services in compensation. Maybe those nice multinations, you know, the ones who pay little tax, might just actually put something back into the society that they extract so much from.

Oi thats my photo drop in Binners!

"If you say that to me at work you won't get any respect it's such a foolish comment".

Drac, Hardly think showing respect to those that pay our wages is foolish. You can do something about your personal work situation if you are fed up.

Oops! Sorry! I'll use this instead Mike

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]we need a superhero

I already have only one foot in the NHS (the other in a social enterprise trust 'delivering cut price services for the NHS and not for profit').

The service I work in is performing marvellously, in fact although profit and loss are rather abstract in a not-for-profit healthcare provder, in the last financial year my part of the service has made a theoretical 'profit' equal to 45% of the losses made by the rest of the organisation.

On this basis, and on the basis of the changes in tendering brought about by the health and social care act I fully expect to have our successes recognised/punished (delete as per your political leanings) get 'cherry picked' by serco/g4s/virgin at the next re-tendering and be a private sector employee within a couple of years.

...and yet in response to this you'll still have teachers and nurses working through their breaks, coming in early, staying late etc etc for no additional pay.

Why?

Public sector myself and a couple of my employers tried similar things. The NHS one told us they would stop paying us for the duration of a 12 hour shift, they said that we would be paid for 11.5 hours only as the remaining 30mins was an unpaid break....thats fine we said, we wont be available for those 30mins....they asked us what we meant, it was explained to them that if we're not being paid then its not work time and we can leave the premises, go into town and wash the car, go to the pub and have a swift half etc etc....they honestly expected us to work through the unpaid break, they even threatened to report us to our registering body for some kind of dereliction of duty nonsense....we contacted our professional register ourselves who agreed with us, if you're not being paid then you're not at work....its your time not theirs.
Needless to say panic ensued on their side as they realised ambulances would be off road and unavailable for 30mins each shift....a deal was made whereby we are now handsomely remunerated for going out on a call during our unpaid break....to the extent that the old method of paying us for 12 hrs and having us available for the full 12 hrs was actually cheaper!....this idiots only get away with it because employees let them, i've never seen my colleagues in nursing take this kind of stand.

Case in point, i have a private contract too and my immediate boss is a nurse, the shift is from 7am-7pm (and then 7pm-7am)....i arrive on premises at 7am when my contract states and when i start to get paid...nursey tells me i have to phone ahead at 0630 to take handover from the outgoing clinician.
I decide not to do this, it sounds ridiculous.
Nursey tells me again that i have to start phoning in at 0630 to take handover, i ask what the over time rate is?....she asks why i want to know that?....i say i will be claiming for the half hour overtime each shift that she wants me to ring in from 0630.
She tells me i cant do this and it is my professional responsibility to take handover from the outgoing clinician (a thinly veiled threat to report me i reckon)...i tell her i will have her and the firm in court so quickly they wont know what hit them....if the shift starts at 7am but they want me actually engaged on business for them from 0630 then it has to be paid....she backs down and things have returned to sanity.

Again people only behave this way because they think they can get away with it, i've lost count of the number of nurses i've heard moaning they havent had a break in hospital....its in your contract, work to your contract for gods sake!...it wouldnt take long with everybody doing this for the government to see just how much goodwill is needed from staff to keep services going as they are....sadly there are too many martyrs in public services and each government knows this.

My next step is to take voluntary redundancy and leave the country

Drac, Hardly think showing respect to those that pay our wages is foolish. You can do something about your personal work situation if you are fed up.

Come on then how do you exactly pay my wages? I'm not fed up I love my job, I enjoy what I do, my employer isn't perfect but damn site better than many, my conditions are pretty good, I get good money Ok I could get more in a private sector but I don't have a trade outside what I do, my job is as secure as is possible and I get a reasonable pension.

So anyway how do "Pay my wages"?

deviant - Member

if the shift starts at 7am but they want me actually engaged on business for them from 0630 then it has to be paid

I went through the exact same thing back when I worked in a bank branch. "Your working day is 9 to 5 but we need you there from 8.30 to 5.30" "OK that's cool, is it toil or overtime?" "Oh no, it's not [i]work[/i], it's just [i]getting ready[/i] for work!" "Well if it's not work, then you won't mind if I don't do it" and so on. Got the gem "You don't expect to be paid for your commute do you? This is really just part of your commute!" But as you say, so many people just accept it.

(and then my usual beef, the people who just accept shitty treatment always say "everyone does it" even when other people around them don't, and "you need to do it to get ahead" even though they're not getting ahead, and then the all-time favourite, "That's not very fair on your colleagues" when you decline to do the charity work they do.)

My next step is to take voluntary redundancy and leave the country

CS dept where Mrs J works didn't offer redundancies, they offered Voluntary Exit Scheme and you got a stupid lump sum to **** off. However it was only given to certain employees, the awkward unmanageable one's who should have been dismissed on performance, but because the management are weak they used the VES to get rid of those who didn't work, oh and management who took 6 figure lump sums to get out before the ship sank.

Her office has been relocated to Birmingahm (even though original work station has a lease running for another 10 years!!), employers are paying to transport costs in a lump sum to cover 3 years (to be taxed,reclaimed at origianl lump sum figure, reimbursed to be taxed a second time when they use public transport which will be less than the "loan amount".

And they are now recruiting those positions that were released a couple of years ago.

With management like this were are well and truly screwed!!

julianwilson, "serco/g4s/virgin" You missed Stobbart's from the list.

Drac, For a chap that's happy you were doing a bit of complaining about what's going on in your job, really glad to have that wrong. 🙂

"our" not "my".

Drac, For a chap that's happy you were doing a bit of complaining about what's going on in your job, really glad to have that wrong.

Errr no I wasn't.

We also have a spare PM you can have, she is British and everything

I reckon she'd be damned effective opposition in the (slightly) more dignified chambers of Westminster

Actually she looks quite attractive there.

She's always had a bit of "[i]this one time, at band camp[/i]" about her.

[quote=zokes ]We also have a spare PM you can have, she is British and everything
I reckon she'd be damned effective opposition in the (slightly) more dignified chambers of Westminster
Actually she looks quite attractive there.
She's always had a bit of "this one time, at band camp" about her.

Good luck! Id rather send over Abbot to make Call me Dave look left wing!

Mrs Daz is currently planning an exit route that involves becoming a gardener. It's tragic really, she has a job she loves and is damn good at it. But she works for an NHS trust which delivers drug misuse treatment services to a local authority, and the powers that be have decided that she is grossly overpaid, and that they're better off hiring less qualified people to do her job for 45% less pay. The upshot is that if she wants to continue in her profession long term she's going to have to swallow a 45% pay cut, and the end of her NHS pension benefits as she'll be tuped over to a voluntary sector operation. 15 years of hard work, training, experience, and dedication down the drain. Still, that's 'efficiency' for you!

dazh, great example.
Why are we paying people double what is required to do something? Would you pay someone 2x what the other guy charges for the same job?

Public sector should be a provider of services not a charity for those employed by it

Oh Christ!! I think he's heard you......

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Would you pay someone 2x what the other guy charges for the same job?

Yes, given that the dearer person knows what they're doing and the other cheapo doesn't as dazh says.

Perhaps because the people getting paid double are doing a 2x better job? You'll probably question whether that is the case in this example, but the team Mrs Daz works for is a highly professional outfit which has come top regionally (and not far off nationally) in pretty much all the performance indicators. At the same time, the teams which have been farmed out to the voluntary sector using less qualified, and lower paid staff are struggling by the same measurements. So is that charity or getting better value?

[quote=headfirst ] Would you pay someone 2x what the other guy charges for the same job?
Yes, given that the dearer person knows what they're doing and the other cheapo doesn't as dazh says.

Perhaps because the people getting paid double are doing a 2x better job? You'll probably question whether that is the case in this example, but the team Mrs Daz works for is a highly professional outfit which has come top regionally (and not far off nationally) in pretty much all the performance indicators. At the same time, the teams which have been farmed out to the voluntary sector using less qualified, and lower paid staff are struggling by the same measurements. So is that charity or getting better value?

Yes, given that the dearer person knows what they're doing and the other cheapo doesn't as dazh says.

they're better off hiring less qualified people to do her job for 45% less pay.

Judgements like this are not about individuals no matter how much they impact them. They are about the bigger picture, you cannot make decisions about people when you know them.

dazh, great example.
Why are we paying people double what is required to do something? Would you pay someone 2x what the other guy charges for the same job?

Because, whilst on paper, the 'expensive' person might look to be poor value compared to the cheaper prospect, in practice that's rarely the case.

The race to the bottom rarely results in any winners.

[quote=zokes ]dazh, great example.
Why are we paying people double what is required to do something? Would you pay someone 2x what the other guy charges for the same job?

Because, whilst on paper, the 'expensive' person might look to be poor value compared to the cheaper prospect, in practice that's rarely the case.
The race to the bottom rarely results in any winners.

Or perhaps there are times when we are paying the wrong person to do things - see the above comment on efficiency and the greatest waste being talent. Get the right people doing the right thing.

mikewsmith - Member

dazh, great example.
Why are we paying people double what is required to do something?

Because it's often worth paying more for more qualified people. I'm sure we could hire some people on minimum wage to do a lot of our jobs but I think we'll stick with the PhDs.

[quote=Northwind ] mikewsmith - Member
dazh, great example.
Why are we paying people double what is required to do something?
Because it's often worth paying more for more qualified people. I'm sure we could hire some people on minimum wage to do a lot of our jobs but I think we'll stick with the PhDs.

But what if we don't need to? Why pay a Dr when a nurse can do the job? Is there something wrong with the idea of paying the right amount to get a job done? Just because we have previously paid for an uber expert do we always have to?

Like they've done at ATOS and the disability living allowance claims?

That'll save money, won't it? Simply remove the need for trained medical staff to do evaluations, in favour of untrained monkeys ticking boxes. What could possibly go wrong?

The only problem being that 40% of the decisions are being appealed, then upheld. Costing a fortune!

Love it that the folk who are currently living in the antipodean paradise are so keen to discuss public sector workers on the other side of the world 😆

Are you missing home? 😉

Thanks Pigface, only been gone a year and know all about how screwed up the PS is, see my first post it's not about those doing but the whole organisation. I paid enough to fund the cess pit that middle management has become.

Now Daz has offered some qualification is his wife (unbiased opinion) offering twice the service as the other people?

That's impossible to quantify. However in the area of drug treatment services, the price of poorer services is more deaths of drug users, more chaotic drug users, and fewer drug users accessing treatment. This ultimately ends up costing the state more in terms of NHS bills, crime, benefits, social care for children etc. Also the fast reducing number of qualified social workers and nurses in the profession are used to dealing with complex cases which span other areas (eg child protection & safeguarding, crime, public protection etc), which their less qualified colleagues are not. This amplifies the end cost to society as it's the complex cases which see the largest reduction in quality of service. Like I said, it all comes down to value, and getting what you pay for.

That's impossible to quantify. However in the area of drug treatment services, the price of poorer services is more ....

I am not 100% agreeing with current government policy but suggesting that a review of services and providers may be a good thing and might free up cash to put expensive resources where they will do most good rather than wherever they happen to be.

I don't disagree with reviewing services and targeting spending where it's most needed. That has happened in my wife's profession and they are a much more efficient and successful operation now than they were 4 years ago. However, the budgets are still being cut and the NHS providers can't compete with the voluntary providers who are under-cutting them by using less qualified and experienced staff (whilst claiming that service quality won't be affected). The upshot is that an entire generation of highly skilled, qualified and dedicated people are now leaving or are being forced to leave the public sector. In terms of making an organisation more efficient, and maintaining/improving quality, that seems to be a very odd way of achieving it.

mikewsmith - Member

But what if we don't need to?

"Need" is the wrong word. If a more qualified person doesn't give an equivalent improvement in results, then maybe we shouldn't have them in that job. Any reason to believe that's the case here? (and please don't say the cut suggests it is, that's crazy talk)

*
There was a teacher on TV last night saying that now her and her colleagues won't be guaranteed a pay rise every year, they'll be voting with their feet. Presumably they'll be entering a particular sector of private working where people always get pay rises.
Does anyone know which sector she was talking about?

private sector teaching, more pay, longer holidays and same pension!

work(ed) in the public sector- cancer research - we get no overtime ever and every contract says that we will have to work extra hours as required. The industry isnt doing very well at the moment, I was made redundant 6 mths ago and feedback im getting is that theres ever more candidates looking for fewer jobs the pay freeze is just a pay cut really , Ive got 3 interviews next week all for jobs equivalent to my old position but with 10-25% pay decrease

144. 0000 jobs lost from private sector would bring a huge outcry and additional funding for the prostrate sector........I do mean that as well.......the farce of G4S in the Olympics saved the police force from privatisation.

The concept that public sector worker are lazy ****ers and all private sector is wonderful is a simplistic failure of logic and common sense.

Worked for both and seen more waste in the private sector and 'perks' than in the public sector.

I agree most public sector workers are there for the communities they serve.

Losing 144, 000 jobs is a lot and will effect the economy, Osbourne made a political I wanna be like thatcher and challenge the unions is senseless and stupidity

significant savings to the budget can be made without killing the private sector or the public.