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Hi All.
My daughter is considering Law as a degree option and has been told that a good thing to do would be to go to a Crown Court to observe and get a flavour of goings on. So, this half term, we are going to visit Leicester Crown Court and sit in the public gallery. Actual practical info on what to do, expect etc is proving hard to find. I wondered I anyone on here could advise, please.
Do you just pitch up and ask to be let in? Are you allowed to take notes? Are you allowed to come and go as you please - so long as you don't disrupt proceedings etc? Is there any way to view in advance what hearings and charges are being held etc?
I've never been in Court in any capacity, so struggling to know what's best. I've only got the one day A/L booked from work, so that is the only day we can do.
Thanks.
It used to be the case that you could just turn up to any Court, unless there's a security risk
I'd speak to Court staff to find out which is a "good" court to sit in on for what she wants.
Start of a long trial and sorting out a jury perhaps isn't too helpful, nor is a pile of adjournments. There will be lunch breaks and some early finishes, so make good use of your time http://xhibit.justice.gov.uk/leicester.htm
Ask if there's a "polite" time to come and go, some judges can be a bit stern and may challenge you 🙂
The listings should be on the court website at least the day before and then maybe try google the case details for something interesting . First thing in the morning is usually admin hearings, bail apps, directions etc, interesting for a bit but not the most exciting but if you want to be a lawyer probably of relevance. Some of these may not be open to the public. A trial would be interesting especially if you can see the sentencing.
You can take notes but no audio or video recording- that is a really big (like possible jail) no,no. Also phone on silent or off, some Judges get really pissed off about phones going off. There should be no issues coming and going as you say as long as you’re quiet. Very occasionally the public may get kicked out completely in a trial but that is not that common.
Start of a long trial and sorting out a jury perhaps isn't too helpful, nor is a pile of adjournments.
Surely thats THE bit she should see if she is keen.
If you're looking through the court listings and see 20 different people's cases all scheduled at the same time - that's probably bail apps, status hearings or sentencing. I think they're the best to watch because it's a high volume and after listening to a few, you start to work our what's going on and catch the rhythm. Also, there are always people coming and going in and out the doors, so it's less awkward if you want to leave.
You don't need a reason to be in the public gallery but court staff may ask why you're there. They're not trying to chuck you out - they usually just want to make sure you're not a witness, party etc that's lost and waiting in the wrong place! Just explain what you've said above.
No hats. No phones, tablets etc. Whisper to each other, don't rabbit at full volume. In some courts, you stand when the judge enters and leaves - just copy everyone else. You're not going to get in trouble if you get any of this wrong as you're obviously not taking the piss.
By the way - obviously it's only a small proportion of lawyers that go to court but staring at someone typing for 8 hours is very boring!
Whisper to each other, don't rabbit at full volume.
I would suggest don’t talk at all - especially if anyone else is talking. One persons whisper is another persons quiet ramble. If you need to say whole sentences leave the court room. You can leave at any point, but even the quietest person makes noise and distraction so avoid moving around when someone is in the middle of giving evidence.
good advice to talk to court staff and explain why there - they are likely to be able to say “court 3 will be more interesting” or “court 1 will have lots of closed hearings so you will get kicked out for most of the morning” etc. They are quite harassed from 0915-1015 ish so it would probably be worth calling mid PM a few days in advance to see if they can give you any hints where to see the most interesting stuff. What you are planning is not unusual and you will have no issues.
as someone else said, most lawyers don’t go near a courtroom, and certainly not a criminal court so it may not be the most representative. However would be worth trying to pop in to a magistrates court too - even if just for an hour, to see how different it feels.
If real life court doesn’t put her off, and she wants more then: as you probably will know there are no tv cameras in British Courts, but there are a few exceptions.
1. sentencing hearings in the very highest profile cases; Google should find them - the news often uses a 30s sound byte but she may find the whole hour long process interesting.
2. Some Supreme Court appeal cases decisions. Usually very dull, but would give a different view from typical criminal cases.
3. Selected Scottish murder trials - which after the process is completed are edited down to a couple of one hour programmes. They are quite well done, and whilst they miss out a lot of boring detail and probably have been edited for a bit of tv tension will give you a good flavour of what goes on. It is a differnet legal system (no opening speeches, key facts must be corroborated, 15 jurors who only need a simple majority etc) but not as different as other jurisdictions. You should find it on BBC Scotland on iPlayer.
4. The post office and Covid inquiries (live on YouTube?). Whilst not exactly a court case, they give a similar feel and they will also give her an idea of how dull and detailed cases can often be.
Surely thats THE bit she should see if she is keen.
Jury selection in the UK is randomised.
Randomised selection from the list of eligible voters and a group turns up at Court. More randomised selection to get a panel of 12 plus a subs bench
The judge can decide if they think that a person with visible needs is likely to be able to usefully attend for the duration of the trial, if not we go to the subs. Jurors can raise issues that aren't as visible.
You don't tend to see the investigative song and dance that's on the telly, although "Stand By" or "Challenge to Cause" sometimes happens.
Adjournments and similar processes are more administrative, they aren't part of a trial as such
Make sure you’ve got some drinks ordered for the interval. Oh, and apparently other audience members don’t appreciate folk dancing and singing along.
Do NOT start chanting "you're going home in a G4S van" or blowing a vuvuzela after counsel for the defence concludes their submissions. Can't stress this enough. In fact, judges get surprisingly narked by even a modest round of applause. They need to get with the times if they want to attract a youth audience imvho
Visiting the courts can be either an interesting day out or a boring day depending upon what you get to see and remember that this is only a small part of any criminal lawyers job. I have a bunch of mates who all studied law together and only one of them ended up doing criminal law, the rest are doing corporate stuff or conveyancing among other things. My nephew has just finished his Law degree and has not been able to get an internship yet and finding it tough out there, he is currently working as a lifeguard.
I wanted to be a barrister when I was a kid so did work experience at a crown court. I found the morning stuff fascinating - things like legal arguments about what evidence can be admitted. You see the life of the court, all the different people coming and going, the dynamic between the judge and the lawyers. God knows why I ended up in IT.
It's the ushers who know what's going on and will be able to recommend what to go and see and how to behave (little bow to the judge when entering and existing), so maybe give their office a ring.
Edited to add: if your daughter phones up herself and acts keen, then ushers might offer to give her a tour and introduce her to people.
Also edited to add: my data is 30 years old. Things might have changed.
Adjournments and similar processes are more administrative, they aren't part of a trial as such
Yes but if you want to study lae you surely should see the tedius stuff.
Not all the object! And smartarsing over the finer points of law.
Might be worth pursuing other avenues too - I work for a sizeable law firm and we have work experience and the like for students to dip a toe in the water.
Yes, that's a very good point. To be blunt, finding a job in the law is ****ing brutal at the moment for new grads. There are far more uni places than grad lawyer jobs available. The competition for summer clerkships, grad positions and then training contracts is wild. A person graduating from a not great university or with a 2:2 is going to struggle.
It is definitely worth scouting out every work experience opportunity possible. Some links below. If your daughter is state-educated then also look into what the 93% Club is doing around access to the legal profession.
https://jobs.cliffordchance.com/access?gad_source=1
https://www.slaughterandmay.com/careers/early-careers/work-experience-opportunities/
https://www.prospects.ac.uk/jobs-and-work-experience/job-sectors/law-sector/law-work-experience
Well she is struggling to nail down what she wants to do, so any real life experience we can get for her is good.
We really need to make a day of it - we were only able to observe for about 3 hours. Lots of procedure, a bit of drama - but she found it interesting at any rate.
Take home points for me were:
The CPS seem very overworked. Quite a lot of stuff still on a list to do and some vague assertions that pissed the judge off. I can see how a clever defendant with a hot shit lawyer could exploit some of that to their advantage.
The faux Tottenham Man Dem accent is the voice of the average English scrote under the age of 30.
How much the personality of the judge sets the tone of the room.
It was interesting if not A Few Good Men and we're planning on a visit to a magistrates court too.
Thanks for all the pointers.
The CPS seem very overworked
The whole system is ****ed, for a non-urgent case you could be waiting months if not over a year for a charging decision from CPS. Then possibly a couple of years for a jury trial slot. I can see jury-less trials in the future.
After a full day in court yesterday, I say take a cushion!
I'm assuming she's read the Secret Barrister books and their blog? Put my lad off the idea of law.