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[quote=mechmonkey ]
On another point...how **** are some peoples brakes!?! From watching the incident with the lorry, I think he could have reacted to the lorry quicker and stopped before he was that close to the tail. Not saying give r.o.w. as a matter of course but do react to the situation. Guy who rear ended the lady on the cycle path, again I reckon I could have stopped. etcetc
You've got to be a bit careful trying to measure speed and distance using the out put from a headcam. It's likely the obstacles were much nearer than they looked on video.
[quote=mikey74 ]
Deaf people: I have heard they tend to have heightened awareness through their other senses, and therefore are probably more sensitive to what is going on around them than most other people with all senses working perfectly.
Old wives tales.
You've got to be a bit careful trying to measure speed and distance using the out put from a headcam. It's likely the obstacles were much nearer than they looked on video
Granted. Just had my finger on the brakes and felt I could have pulled up a little earlier. Appreciate speed and distance are not so easy to see properly through the cam.
Having spent a year working as a cycle courier, five years as a motorcycle courier and twenty years as a black cab driver, the conclusion I've come to, can be summed up in one word...tolerance. It doesn't cost anything, and we all have it waiting inside of us.
I did over 10 years cycle and motorbike commuting in London. When I started out on the bike I rode hard and came across all the types of incidents in the programme on a daily basis. When I made a conscious decision to be a smoother rider, look ahead further and weave in traffic less, surprise surprise the number of incidents dropped and I wasn't actually travelling much slower overall. Rather than confront dangerous drivers it is far better to stay as far away as possible. You obviously can't avoid all issues with drivers on the road but a change in mind set to ' it dosnt matter if its my r.o.w. I will ride defensively as required' makes a world of difference.
It wasn't as bad as I thought it would be but it was a missed opportunity as the main message they wanted to get across seemed to be that both cyclists and drivers can be numpties. Yeah, we know that, tell us something constructive and new. I was surprised at how little road craft the majority of cyclists shown seemed to have.
The documentary didn't really attempt to deal with the main issues facing road users; namely an over stretched and over capacity road network, poor driving standards (on all sides of the argument) and a lack of will both politically and legally to make motorists more accountable for accidents they cause. Until drivers start being given stiffer penalties for hitting pedestrians and cyclists it is hard to see how things will change much. I cannot for example believe that the daughter of that poor woman had her death recorded as accidental; she was killed by a careless driver and careless driving is an offence. Similarly cyclists need to be penalised for breaking traffic laws. We can't have it all our own way.
I thought it was a really good program, showed both sides of the story.
At the end of the day if that program makes drivers and cyclist think a little more then that has to be good.
Also, all the comments about how cycling in London is so dangerous and they would never do it, it really isn't that bad. Don't ride like a dick, obey the rules, pay 100% attention all the time and you'll be fine.
Not much being said about cyclists wearing earphones got to be the daftest thing to do
I think this is true as it's harder for cyclists to see what's going on around them compared to cars - and more likely for something following you to cause a problem. I reckon being able to hear clearly saved me from a nasty squishing one time in London. I was approaching a dog leg in the road and heard something approaching fast from behind. I didn't like the idea of anyone passing me on this dog leg so slammed on my brakes and watched a white van pass me at speed and truncate the corner - just where I would have been.
Also, all the comments about how cycling in London is so dangerous and they would never do it, it really isn't that bad. Don't ride like a dick, obey the rules, pay 100% attention all the time and you'll be fine.
I pretty much agree
In most of the incidents that the programme showed, I don't think I would have put myself in a position for them to happen in the first place. Whether or not I had the right to put myself in such a position is irrelevant as far as I'm concerned.
I don't ride in London but I also don't find myself in the dangerous situations that some folks seem to think are the norm, I can only put it down to deferring to things that are likely to kill me or seriously hurt me, rather than competing with them.
Good programme in the end, we all know that there are idiots on both sides of the divide, it just seems that generally motorists are more likely to resort to violence 🙁 .
I do think that they made far more of the red light jumping than was necessary, having commuted around London by bike for the 8 years you soon realise that everyone red light jumps, cars, taxis, buses, cyclists and pedestrians also ignore crossings, fortunately i've never been knocked off by a vehicle but i have had two pedestrians run straight out into the road and hit me side on, luckily on both occasions there were no injuries to either of us.
Great programe well balanced except for GARETH,who should come with a warning printed on his forehead.
CYCLIST WITH CAMERA.
also some good deals on cameras on www.7dayshop.com , nice christmas gift, if anyone wants to buy me another one.
Some situations like cars pulling out on junctions and roundabouts and hard to predict, so you just have to assume it will happen and slow down, look at the driver and make sure you are as viable as possible ie: not riding in the gutter.
Have to admit this morning I was feeling in a good mood whilst cycling into work, cars were giving me a wide berth, a taxi driver apologised for having his door open as I rode past, all was going well.
The lights go green at a set of lights, Cars and met all set off just as a pedestrian tries to walk across. I then get met with "You're lucky I didn't knock you off your f**cking bike" Have to say that probably that most problems I see are pedestrians just not looking when they cross the road!
Alf (? Age 77) talked a lot of sense as does the mother who tragically lost her daughter.
Alf (? Age 77) talked a lot of sense as does the mother who tragically lost her daughter.
The taxi driver had lost his grandson in a cycling accident too 🙁
In most of the incidents that the programme showed, I don't think I would have put myself in a position for them to happen in the first place
Absolutely! Self-preservation clearly wasn't high on some peoples agenda's, the way they were riding. A lot of it just common sense.
Red Light Jumping for example. Sneaking a cheeky left turn at a quiet-ish junction is one thing, but just riding straight across a busy junction on red! Or in one case they showed, turning right across 2 lanes of traffic! 😯
[edit] link removed.
🙁
The road network is completely wrong- 50 years of designing primarily for the car wont provide a decent facility for cyclists in just a few years just by a few random white lines or bits of red tarmac.
what like going around a roundabout? (2 incidences on the programme)I can only put it down to deferring to things that are likely to kill me or seriously hurt me, rather than competing with them
plenty of situations where there's no competitive stuff going on, just riding along and another road user does something mind numbingly stupid and nearly kills you.
programme did show some bad riding. They missed an opportunity, when Gaz was talking about riding primary the should have explained what it is to the public instead of just showing hwat happens (sometimes) when you do it. The lady who bought shares in the truck company was inspiring. Still not getting why some people think Gaz was a cock. I agree he said a couple of cringeworthy lines but he didn't seem that bad.
Adapt. Flow. Use the brakes. Turn the bars. Focus. Keep cool. Stop at red lights. Let other people make mistakes.
'seasy, innit.
what like going around a roundabout? (2 incidences on the programme)
plenty of situations where there's no competitive stuff going on, just riding along and another road user does something mind numbingly stupid and nearly kills you.
Ah, the old selective quoting, you can't beat it
I don't ride in London but I also don't find myself in the dangerous situations that [b]some folks[/b] seem to think are the norm, I can only put it down to deferring to things that are likely to kill me or seriously hurt me, rather than competing with them.
Still not getting why some people think Gaz was a cock
Some people just are. He was, and is. The hand-clapping the cabbie as he was getting back in to his cab was just deliberately and unnecessarily provocative.
Funnily enough, I only know one person who's been physically assaulted while out on the bike. And its happened to him twice. However... if you'd met him, you soon understand why slapping him would be tempting. He's probably the most smug, pompous, superior, sanctimonious spod I've ever met in my life*. He could start an argument in an empty room. I don't know what he did to provoke either assault, but I'm pretty sure that some provocation was indeed involved
* A textbook MAMIL BTW. Got into it a couple of years back, now thinks he's Bradley Wiggins, on his full carbon ego-chariot
The hand-clapping the cabbie as he was getting back in to his cab was just deliberately and unnecessarily provocative.
He was aware that he made himself look like a cock. Whether that was just for the camera, I don't know...
It doesn't really matter if it was for the camera or not. If you behave like that at any time, then you're a cock. End of story
And getting the living **** kicked out of you would only be a matter of time, if you carried on like that regularly, I'd imagine
Well I didn't see the programme but I knew what would happen.
For the last hour or so I have had the following from my non-cycling colleagues at work who saw the programme:
[list]
[*]Cyclists are all stupid/arrogant.
[*]EVERY cyclist runs red lights.
[*]EVERY cyclist should use the cycle path if there is one.
[*]EVERY cyclist is a nob and it should be banned.
[*]Cyclists should [i]never[/i] be in the middle of the lane, regardless of safety.
[/list]
Some even went on to blame Wiggo for his recent accident ("Should stay off the road, where cars are meant to be.") and started joking about how they were going to set-up their screen washers to spray water at cyclists as they pass.
Thanks BBC, for making my life pretty miserable from idiots.
Let's be honest the media can portray you in anyway they want.
Last night was sloppy, lazy journalism.
We should be challenging the film makers to provide an objectively focussed documentary which could offer solutions instead of all lining up to call Gaz a ****.
It doesn't really matter if it was for the camera or not. If you behave like that at any time, then you're a cock. End of story
The camera line was just a bit of obviously overly-subtle humour, but you're being a bit harsh. We all have been cocks at some point or another and some of us realise and alter our behaviour, some don't. I can't really tell how old the bloke is but I reckon he's still got time for that to take place.
I suppose it goes back to the self-preservation thing teasel. In the same way I wouldn't squeeze up the inside of an artic, I wouldn't stoke up an unnecessary confrontation with someone who was already pretty bloody angry with me. Law of averages suggests if you do, then being on the receiving end of a right shoe-ing will only be a matter of time.
Though I suspect you're right that he'd be considerably less gobby without a camera
Should stay off the road, where cars are meant to be
Sadly people forget that there were roads many many years before cars even existed.
As for the prat with the glasses it seems he has a more sensible side:
[url= http://www.sillycyclists.co.uk ]Silly Cyclists[/url]
ah re-read your post, fair enough, sorry I'm getting jaded, have heard far too many cyclists on here say "well it was their own fault"Ah, the old selective quoting, you can't beat it
binners - MemberStill not getting why some people think Gaz was a cock
Some people just are. He was, and is. The hand-clapping the cabbie as he was getting back in to his cab was just deliberately and unnecessarily provocative.
FFS.
The guy is 24, and made a bit of a twunt of himself when high on adrenalin after being bullied by a big aggressive cabbie. No one else on here has done similar? All perfect are we? 🙄
It's SO *ING IRRITATING that this is the point that CYCLSISTS take away from the program "heh that guy was a bit of a knob heh heh" THERE ARE BIGGER MORE IMPORTANT *ING ISSUES TO CONSIDER HERE YOU MORONS.
did they actually watch the program? I didn't pick up on the programme suggesting that. They didn't explain the middle of the road thing as I already said.Cyclists are all stupid/arrogant.
EVERY cyclist runs red lights.
EVERY cyclist should use the cycle path if there is one.
EVERY cyclist is a nob and it should be banned.
Cyclists should never be in the middle of the lane, regardless of safety.
aaaaah your co-workers are arseholes, that'll explain it then.Some even went on to blame Wiggo for his recent accident ("Should stay off the road, where cars are meant to be.") and started joking about how they were going to set-up their screen washers to spray water at cyclists as they pass.
Yeah agreed. I commented on that earlier, adrenaline and all that, he said he's sorry he did it and shouldn't have in the first place.The hand-clapping the cabbie as he was getting back in to his cab was just deliberately and unnecessarily provocative.
Not seen it yet (will catch it later on iPlayer) but I take it Gareth/Gaz is [url= http://www.youtube.com/user/CycleGaz ]CycleGaz off of YouTube[/url] and [url= http://www.sillycyclists.co.uk ]SillyCyclists[/url]?
If it is then I have a lot of time for his videos and the SillyCyclists series.
He may come across as smug/arrogant/whatever to some, but his advice generally seems pretty sound in terms of taking the primary where required, making eye contact, being seen, not riding up the inside of lorries, not salmoning, not RLJing, signalling etc etc
He doesn't do that well when actually in a road rage situation himself - but then how many of us do?
[url= http://road.cc/content/news/71714-truth-first-casualty-bbcs-war-britains-roads ]As road.cc says[/url]: [i]"Also lost was the reason why the likes of Cyclegaz perhaps come across as a bit shouty – any rider who has had a large vehicle pass that close to them, where a couple of inches nearer could result in serious injury or worse, will have experienced that rush of adrenalin mixed with shock and fear."[/i]
Aye the 2 folk on Today actually did a half decent job - especially the cyclist (MArtin Hutcheson?)
The Bertrand Russell documentary after was great too 😀
Easy Al!
The bottom line is that last nights programme was going to change nobodies point of view. Just re-enforce peoples existing prjudices. Pretty much everyone on the roads hate us anyway. At best we're an inconvenience, at worst, a target.
If its the bloke who's done the silly cyclist thing fair play to him. But the whole hand clapping thing to me looked like he was engineering getting punched on camera, to prove a point
True dat Adam
What I dont get ois the way they se one bad cyclist then call us all names
Its hardl;y likely they experince no bad driving from a car during the same period
IME many road users are very incosiderate but cyclsits are much mor elikely to get hurt so we need to lok at drivers
I really dont get the atitude of your fellow owrkers but it is all too prevalant
I think we should make every car driver cycle for 4 hours a year in ruch hour as nothing else will educate them to as to what its like
Many road users are cocks and we need to realise we share the space and the objective is for no one to get hurt not for me to be the fastest over the next 50 yds.
What Al said as well
We have all made mistakes and got angry but really do we need to make how he appeared the central issue?
The crux is how to get drivers to treat us with respect and obey the laws and hwo we can get idiot cyclists to obey the law
Its not us v them its about us all being safer
mudshark - Member"Not much being said about cyclists wearing earphones got to be the daftest thing to do"
I think this is true as it's harder for cyclists to see what's going on around them compared to cars
Really? On the bike I'm higher up than most drivers with no pillars casuing blind spots and in traffic I can usually see further ahead than if I was in a car.
R4 today programme - review of show around 2.41 in.
Nope. Clicked through - couldn't find it anywhwere.
I was approaching a dog leg in the road and heard something approaching fast from behind. I didn't like the idea of anyone passing me on this dog leg
I don't go through those sort of sections of road without checking behind visually and taking primary. If that had been, say, an electric car, you'd not have heard it.
What's the cost of an accident?
Metro ran something recently saying "Deaths and injuries on Britain’s roads costs the NHS £470m every year and the economy £8bn".
I thought I'd heard some £m's per (fatal?) accident before. How much did the twunts taking themselves out of the gene pool racing on the M1 cost the country I wonder? M1 closed through morning rush hour plus huge cleanup?
Deaf people: I have heard they tend to have heightened awareness through their other senses, and therefore are probably more sensitive to what is going on around them than most other people with all senses working perfectly.
I'm only partially deaf but other senses are not heightened, we just pay more attention the the ones we have and be aware of situations where visual checks are more necessary due to not being able to hear.
You can use the same behaviour when using headphones, or on a very windy day when travelling at speed (often louder than music in ears), having headphones in is not inherently dangerous as you CAN still hear and as long as you are aware of the impact it has on your senses and the need to compensate in certain circumstances.
You can hear more on a bike with headphones in than you can in a car (even one without the radio on) unless you have the volume up stupidly loud.
Really? On the bike I'm higher up than most drivers with no pillars casuing blind spots and in traffic I can usually see further ahead than if I was in a car.
Yeah but mirrors help in a car - I'm very conscious of what's happening in my mirrors, look around a lot on the bike too but can never be as good.
The thing about Als hero Gaz is that he seems to think it is his right and resonsibility to pull people up and change their behaviour, sorry to burst his bubble but its not.
You will notice as he was riding along how many other cyclist managed to not get into a fight with the motorists.
The fact is he is going out looking for trouble clearly he is going to find it, if he rode in a slightly more defensive manner then his blood pressure might be lower.
I think we have to realise that the road network is designed for cars, buses and lorries NOT bikes (motor or push)
Once you accept that then life is a bit easier.
Im not saying its right, it just happens to be the way it is. In the case of self preservation i consoder every vehcle a threat and i ride in a manner that will keep me out of its way as much as possible.
Eyes and ears open at all times.
side mirros give a bit of view but with blind spots and probably a whole load of complacency and misplaced feeling of safety, on a bike it's pretty easy to turn your head and again no pillars or steamed/iced up windows restricting your view. centre mirrors help you see what's directly behind you which is where none-exorcist cyclists struggle, but what's directly behind you [i]shouldn't*[/i] be a problem assuming they're following the rules.Yeah but mirrors help in a car
Getting everyone to follow the rules is what we're after (and a shitload of proper infrastructure)
*of course we know it sometimes is, but like with the roundabout stuff discussed earlier if taken to the extreme you'll never ride on the roads or ride everywhere an inch form the kerb at 2mph and keep stopping every minute to check for idiots. Be prepared for shit to happen but don't constantly defer to the larger traffic.
Really? On the bike I'm higher up than most drivers with no pillars casuing blind spots and in traffic I can usually see further ahead than if I was in a car.Yeah but mirrors help in a car - I'm very conscious of what's happening in my mirrors, look around a lot on the bike too but can never be as good.
In a car your vision is surely better simply because it is not hindered by balance and shifting body weight. Turning to look out your passenger window in a car doesnt affect the car at all however on a bike you have to shift your weight a little to balance the bike
The thing about Als hero Gaz is that he seems to think it is his right and resonsibility to pull people up and change their behaviour, sorry to burst his bubble but its not.
Edmund Burke?
Are you really complaining about someone trying to make a difference rather than knowing their proper place, rolling over and meekly taking it as they should?
Confrontation isn't my style, (I'm perhaps a bit older and wiser than Gaz) but I'd stand my ground and ride in the way I believe is safest, even if it means upsetting the odd driver.
I don't think he's looking for trouble he just doesn't cower in the gutter and let bully drivers push him around the road. If someone drives badly near you, ignoring it means they'll never change their ways, now obviously there's a lot of debate on how the best way to tackle this but just meekly accepting it coz the other boy is bigger than you is 100% guaranteed to fail.The fact is he is going out looking for trouble clearly he is going to find it, if he rode in a slightly more defensive manner then his blood pressure might be lower
[quote=GrahamS ]I'd stand my ground [b]and[/b] ride in the way I believe is safest,
Often they are not the same
mechmonkey - Member
In a car your vision is surely better simply because it is not hindered by balance and shifting body weight. Turning to look out your passenger window in a car doesnt affect the car at all however on a bike you have to shift your weight a little to balance the bike
😐
Cyclists are all stupid/arrogant.
EVERY cyclist runs red lights.
EVERY cyclist should use the cycle path if there is one.
EVERY cyclist is a nob and it should be banned.
Cyclists should never be in the middle of the lane, regardless of safety.
did they actually watch the program?
The problem with the program is it didn't really explain anything. It was just two opposing sides slagging each other off without any reasoned middle-ground. It's all right knowing the cyclist's point of view to begin with, but most people don't and are naturally going to side with the opinions of the drivers. When they say 'get back in the cycle lane, you ****!', many will be sitting there nodding their heads.
From a general prespective it done nothing but reinforce stereotypes, and since there was a distinct lack of reasoned commentary, the general public will fill in the gaps as they wish.
I wouldn't mind too much. At the end of the day we don't have to watch. But since it's on the BBC we [i]do[/i] have to pay for it. They could easily have put together a genuinely interesting piece and taken a reasoned approach as they do with most of their documentaries - or at least the ones I watch, I must admit I don't watch a lot of TV. Instead they thought it better to represent cyclists as a bunch of militant-vigilantes. Sure, some of them seemed like nice blokes, but add in a little bitterness and people quickly choose their sides. There was no mediation.
The whole thing was confrontational.
Fair enough Binners.
Another thing that annoyed me - throughout the programme drivers were speculating "look at that cyclist wobbling, they're bound to cause an accident" etc - as if speculation is evidence.
They also failed to make the fundamental point that the cyclist will always come off worse ina collision.
I think a presumption of guilt on the driver is the way ahead.
EDIT and those creating cycle lanes that conflict with AIM/HC advice (in that they are too narrow) are to blame.
Aye the 2 folk on Today actually did a half decent job - especially the cyclist (MArtin Hutcheson?)
Michael Hutchinson, apparently, a cycling journo. Bit of a relief - wouldn't want people thinking I was being reasonable on the radio.
You guys are just Trolling now, its so obvious he is looking for trouble David Blunkett could see it.
martinhutch - MemberAye the 2 folk on Today actually did a half decent job - especially the cyclist (MArtin Hutcheson?)
Michael Hutchinson, apparently, a cycling journo. Bit of a relief - wouldn't want people thinking I was being reasonable on the radio.
What's the timing on the radio piece?
Yoiu would know a troll steve as your pleasant way opf presenting yor view amply demonstrates
i think you should mark hwk in this style 😉
Woppit - I thought it was in the last 5m - I'll check.
stevewhyte - why polarise the argument and ridicule me? Doesn't show you in the best light, mate.
D0NK - Memberjust meekly accepting it coz the other boy is bigger than you is 100% guaranteed to fail.
^This^
Around 2hrs 42mins in.
its so obvious he is looking for trouble David Blunkett could see it.
Nope sorry. I've watched quite a few CycleGaz vids and I don't think he "looks for trouble" at all - he just challenges it when it happens. Generally he seems to ride very sensibly (he has posted some very dull videos to illustrate this but obviously no one watches them) e.g.
I'd agree some of the other YouTubers are fairly full on (magnatom, cyclingmikey) but even then I don't think they actively look for trouble - they are just a lot more verbal than most when it happens.
Im not polorising the argument and to be honest you are the one calling people morons are you not?
from my point if you realise that people in cars are going to do stupid things then you will probably likve longer.
If you go out deliberatly looking for trouble then you are going to find it, clearly Gaz was looking for trouble. I am in no way saying that the drivers were not at fault but he could easily have avoided most if not all of the situations. He delibriatly tried to noise up the taxi driver he even said so on his film.
The point was well made by the woman who lost her daughter, and reiterated by the woman on the Today programme.
It's a competative space on the roads, it should be a cooperative space.
I've watched quite a few CycleGaz vids and I don't hink he "looks for trouble" at all - [b]he just challenges it when it happens.[/b]
Yep. From some of his clips I've seen his cycling in general is impeccable. His only crime is not backing down when it happens.
CycleGaz is a saint compared to another guy whose video they used. The full version improves the context.
And this is a pearler...
(Warning - contains sweary content...)
along with a presumption of guilt against cyclists whenever pedestrians are hit, perhaps?I think a presumption of guilt on the driver is the way ahead.
Only saw a minute, where a taxi driver who looked like a normal bloke was saying he was just trying to make a living was followed by a cut to a slightly smirking, geeky looking chap who didn't say anything.
Couldn't help thinking that message was "look, here's this guy- he's just like you, just trying to get on and provide for his family. But just look at [i]this[/i] guy, trying to make a point at our expense."
OK, I'm reading a lot into a minute! But it suggested the tone was 'normal people vs militant cyclists' which is not helpful at all.
That first video is part of my commute. I seem to manage to ride down those roads all the time without the need for either shoutyness on my part, or being assaulted! Its hardly central London!
As I said before, i only know one person who's been physically assaulted on his bike, and its happened to him twice. But if you met him you'd understand why. He's an absolute ****!
Martin Porter's [url= http://thecyclingsilk.blogspot.co.uk/2012/12/the-bbc-and-war-on-britains-roads.html ]well considered view [/url]
Michael Hutchinson, apparently, a cycling journo.
Also a very successful bike racer, and more significantly a qualified lawyer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Hutchinson_(cyclist)
Also a very successful bike racer, and more significantly a qualified lawyer
Didn't he also sing in INXS?
That first video is part of my commute. I seem to manage to ride down those roads all the time without the need for either shoutyness on my part, or being assaulted! Its hardly central London!As I said before, i only know one person who's been physically assaulted on his bike, and its happened to him twice. But if you met him you'd understand why. He's an absolute ****!
I knew two guys who used to courier in London (maybe 10 years ago now). One managed to get through the week without any major problems and he actually held the record for a long time for number of deliveries made in one day for that firm. You don't get those kind of records by riding 100% within the letter of the law, it requires a fair bit of creative riding at the best of times! However, he never really had any problems, certainly never got knocked off.
The other guy never went more than a couple of days without a confrontation. He rode in the same sort of way as Courier 1 above but never kept his head. Smashed up numerous cars, got into arguments, got beaten up (and beat up more than a couple of other people), got knocked off. Shouty, loud, always thought he was right even when he was lying on the ground having been decked mid junction after jumping the red light.
If you go looking for trouble you will [b]always[/b] find it. If you keep your head, you'll largely escape unscathed, even when you're in the wrong (jumping reds, riding on the pavement etc).
I seem to shout at other cyclists more than drivers these days.
when they realised that there was a cycling boom in London two or three years ago they should have taken action to make sure that everyone was behaving.
Now cyclists just take the piss when it comes to riding like morons and running red lights. The damage has already been done.
I don't think he's looking for trouble he just doesn't cower in the gutter and let bully drivers push him around the road.
Exactly. Sadly the predominant view of drivers, which was completely confirmed by last night's programme, is that cyclists should ride in the gutter so that they can get past as quick as possible. Even more sadly it would appear that a significant number of people on this forum agree with them!
It's obviously not a good idea to antagonize them but if someone cuts you up (like the guy who deliberately cut in on me at high speed last week cos he took exception to me being in the middle of a bus lane) or comes dangerously close then I think you're within your rights to say something or give the vehicle a slap to let them know they're driving like d*cks. It's not 'looking for trouble', it's defending yourself.
"you're within your rights to say something or give the vehicle a slap"
Car on Car ... you beep the horn and have a swear up at the fella infront, whos cut you up what ever, ... thing is he really can't hear you screaming and shouting and does't feel that threatened, even if he has heard the horn
Bike on Car ... no horn, so you slap the car and because you are next to the drivers/passengers window the fella can hear and feel threatened/wound up by every word you shout...
Add to this the fact that you are already "out" of your vehicle you can understand why the fella in the actual car gets out of his and all merry hell breaks lose.
Take care peeps
thing is we're talking about [i]slapping[/i] a car here, not smashing it up, keying it or otherwise damaging it. People are sooooooo sensitive about their cars despite the fact they have driven ridiculously close to a cyclist or pedestrian, what do they expect?
Mid stupid manoeuvre slapping a car to alert the driver of your presence is fair game IMO, will get a quicker reaction* than just shouting. Slapping car as punishment after the fact...you're on dodgy ground and yes antagonistic, you can get a similar less aggressive effect by stopping next top them putting your hand on the roof and leaning in to the window to (hopefully) discuss what a knob they've been, depends on circumstances tho.
*ie they'll immediately hit the brakes rather than look around wondering where the shouting is coming from
Funny how they get so upset at the merest of touches of their vehicle from a cyclist yet drive them in a manner which is likely to cause much more significant damage when they crash it into something/someone.
For the record, the only time I will slap a car is if they are alongside and coming closer, and not as an after the fact act of retribution. Can't say I've not fantasised about getting one of [url= http://www.spservices.co.uk/item/EMI_EMIWindscreenCenterPunch_76_0_24_0.html ]these[/url] though 🙂
I've tried to stop ranting, as its me on the bike that looks a plum. If in slow traffic and i've been irritated I like to just half open (on the latch not swinging open) the rear nearside door. Obviously if its a 3 door or there is a little'n it wont work but when it does it tickles me.
Once I saw a roadie have a fag flicked at him. He then undertook and squirted most of his bottle contents through the van drivers window
Funny how they get so upset at the merest of touches of their vehicle from a cyclist yet drive them in a manner which is likely to cause much more significant damage when they crash it into something/someone.
I've had that exact discussion with someone once when I slapped his car as he was pushing me sideways into the kerb pulling a no-look-left-hook on me...
Can't remember who it was (Luke maybe?) Who used to advocate opening the boot of offending car, saying you're piece through the now open boot before riding off. Unfortunately, I've never been in a situation to give it a go 😛
dazh that would be criminal and wreckless (and possibly funny as *** doing it to a deserving recipient)