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Those couriers should have their bikes taken away, crushed into a little can, and forced to drink their own urine out of their bike cans.
NO, they should be forced to drink my urine that's been stored for at least 12 months to ripen.
Then some fresh warm stuff.
Idiots
EDIT stan it still scares me that cyclists can watch the programme and all they take away is a personal opinion about that guy
All the incidents in the programme stem from one road user believing they have more rights than others..
What an utter crock.
Bring back TJ.
Gaz seemed alright to me, over did it when the taxi driver walked away but taxi driver had just refused to admit he endangered him, adrenaline and all that, gaz even said he regretted it. Couldn't believe taxi driver was defending his actions "I'd passed him" how could he slap your cab then numb nuts? (Had same thing happen to me Tuesday so a sore point)
Nt as sensationalist as expected
When the road rage bit was on mrs said what do you do if someone gets out of the car and walks up to you?
Er apologise? Back off? Run away?
NO! you hit him first! Driver only gets out of the car for one reason
Ok love will try to remember that.
Not a bad show IMO
I'm of the opinion that some people attract trouble on the roads. Drivers, riders, every type of user. Some people attract trouble like shit to a blanket
I've had the odd run in but nothing too bad really. Did a couple of weeks commuting in London in September and to be honest, I actually really enjoyed it. There loads of cyclists in the city now and I think the tide is turning in our favour.
Surely should be named "War on LONDONS roads"
I've suffered similar incidents to all of those just cycling round the New Forest / Hampshire. Been bounced across a roundabout very much like that tanker (but thankfully only a car), people pulling out, squeezed into the kerb, peds wandering randomly on shared use paths etc.
On a per cyclist/car ratio its probably little different to the major cities.
Wasn't as bad as I feared either. Balanced, there are cocks on bikes and in vehicles, who'da thunk it
Shame they threw in that courier racing (I assune thats not actually a frequent occurrence) otherwise reasonably balanced.
The courier racing (aka "Alleycat Races") were filmed 6 years ago by a professional American filmaker who allegedly didn't give the BBC permission to use it.
They're very rare now although they used to be reasonably well publicised in the courier world. Mostly just cos there are far fewer cycle couriers now than 5 years ago but also cos they're insanely dangerous - effectively a no-holds-barred wacky-races style bike race. They still have a couple of Alleycat Races (in one form or another) in New York and San Francisco.
When I heard about this program earlier this morning I was a little worried about the damage it would do. Having watched it, I think it was pretty well balanced. Sure there was parts that you wish you could have re-written, and I'd have liked it to deal with some of the attitudes towards our right to be on the road, such as the usual VED comments thrown our way. Considering that the mass majority of its viewers have probably never ridden on the road, and many already have grudges about cyclists, this was a good program to challange some of the views without basically alienating them and telling them they're all wrong. Instead it may make the odd one just think a little.
I was actually +1 the fact he was a COCK but forgot to use the quote function.
If you watch the clip he realises the taxi driver is calming down and walking away so he starts to try and antagonise him by clapping his hands. It seems all he wants to do is ride around looking for footage to post online.
He does come over as a bit of a Whopper. But to be fair he did say he shouldn't have clapped his hands in hindsight and he has a point in that if he could touch his cab he was too close.
Both as bad as each other really.
The guy Gareth. What he said was, for the most part pretty true. How he said it - pretty cringe-worthy. He crossed the line when he starts clapping the taxi driver, but seconds earlier the taxi driver almost killed him.
It's a shame he had such a prominent part as his attitude/persona didn't come across well and would have been seen by many cyclist haters as indicative of cyclists being arrogant w*nkers. no doubt the programme makers chose him quite deliberately.
The courier race sequence was completely unnecessary and just sensationalism - they could just have easily included a clip of people in modified cars breaking the speed limit on public roads. Tiny minority etc etc
mouth soap nowBring back TJ.
Yep agree that it was more evenly balanced than the early press made out. Shame they didn't fully explain the mad courier riding much. Button the whole. Pretty fair.
I'm surprised people thought that was well balanced. It made us look like a bunch of lunatics.
i find if I ride somewhere I don't know it's [i]normally[/i] more enjoyable, probably ride slower, more cautious, unsure of route and traffic so give way to pushy drivers more. On my usual route I know the trouble spots where there may be contention and I'll be ready, that's not me looking for trouble* that's me being on my guard and not letting arseholes bully me around the road.Did a couple of weeks commuting in London in September and to be honest, I actually really enjoyed it
*before anyone brings out that old adage (total bollocks)
i cringed at the "riding passed people in their tin boxes", it's 100% true and a fun part of cycling but it won't get drivers on your side.The guy Gareth. What he said was, for the most part pretty true. How he said it - pretty cringe-worthy
I'm surprised people thought that was well balanced. [b]It made us look like a bunch of lunatics.[/b]
The drivers too.
Strangely enough it actually made me want to commute by bike again.
Not sure why!
I was bumped once, two days after a blow-out sent our car onto its roof on the motorway. The lady driver was more shook up than I was. 🙂
I commute a couple of miles a day. Fairly quiet, & have to say the vast majority of drivers I come across are totally fine, but I'm quite submissive to a tonne of steel with a sleepy head in charge, & would rather arrive a min later in one place.
Some of them there Londoners are a bit daft. Darwinian theory I guess.
I didn't think it was "well balanced" at all. They've just trawled youtube for the most confrontational clips and made a cheap tv program out of it. The only exception was whenever Cynthia Barlow was talking.
I commuted in London around 15 years ago for the best part of 3 years , I worked in Kings Cross and Kilburn and rode home to Muswell Hill . Thinking back I rode like a complete Idiot but luckily never had a crash. More luck than judgement to be honest and I wouldn't ride like that when I commute in Edinburgh these days.
When I was on holiday and riding In Barcelona a few months back I noticed the lanes were better structured , they had cyclists riding in both directions on one side of the road and because Its mainly a one way grid system It seems to work. Also there BCN bikes actually look fun to ride compared to the Boris bikes.
I don't mean to belittle those who have been injured or worse by vehicles turning left without signalling but we, who ride on the road know its about its about yield.
Its all down to circumstance but I believe your best to give way to motorists especially HGV's. The same can be said about the boy at the Milngavie Road roundabout with the tanker. Regardless of whether he saw you. You should have yielded. You may well have the 'right of way' but its not going to end well just because you think I'm going, he should have seen me.
That's just bloody minded. You/we are on a push bike, they are in a 25 ton lorry.
Of course there is the occasion to ride defensively and being cut up is dangerous and unnecessary. Like the programme said at the end its about give and take, sharing space and respect. Being aware of your viability as road user, in the eyes of drivers.
Cynic-al - fair point. I wrote that without considering the outright accidents and bad luck, wrong place at the wrong time, etc. (If I admit I am wrong does this break an unwritten rule of STW? 🙂 )
Who is TJ? can someone explain?
(joking! I have read the legends..)
Merak - the chap in that incident said that the tanker was slowing as expected and that he had made eye contact with the driver. I've had exactly this happen to me by a lady who hit me hard enough to bounce my bike about 30 yards away. Fortunately, I saw it coming (to an extent) and was able to sort of 'fall over' onto her bonnet.
Whilst defensive cycling is a very good idea, you can't just yield to every other bit of traffic just in case - it'd be bloody dangerous for a start...
The guy filming drivers on mobile phones was spot on doing that, however I see cyclist riding along on their mobiles also.
Baz there was a ton of dangerous driving that could bud taken cyclists out too.
It's a shame he had such a prominent part as his attitude/persona didn't come across well and would have been seen by many cyclist haters as indicative of cyclists being arrogant w*nkers. no doubt the programme makers chose him quite deliberately.The courier race sequence was completely unnecessary and just sensationalism - they could just have easily included a clip of people in modified cars breaking the speed limit on public roads. Tiny minority etc etc
Good point.
Also the taxi driver's point should be acknowledged.
It's human nature- once drivers blow their top, they are irrational and will not stop until they cause serious harm.
So, if you can, be the bigger man.
They missed the chance to get a traffic copper to comment on the driving of that shouty taxi driver - he still doesn't appear to think he did anything wrong when passing so close and then forcing the cyclist into the curb.
Also I was rather disappointed by the bike copper in the incident with the cyclist banging on the red cab. A whistle would make somebody realise they were driving too close? I get that he was mainly defusing the situation, but seemed all to willing to pass a bit of blame onto the cyclist, and completely failed to point out to the cabbie that if the cyclist could touch his cab then he was driving too close.
As for those who want to knock a cyclist off his bike because they don't agree with him 🙄
Though I do agree that those couriers deserved to be knocked off 😉
slam on your anchors halfway round a roundabout? You for real? What about any traffic behind you? As it happens he did yield, that or die, but don't think you should be telling cyclists the should routinely give way when they have right of way.The same can be said about the boy at the Milngavie Road roundabout with the tanker. Regardless of whether he saw you. You should have yielded
You should have yielded
slam on your anchors halfway round a roundabout?
Does yielding require slamming on the anchors these days?
Ok who has bought a camera off the back of this. I have 7dayshop special coming soon.
As has been said he was already entering roundabout, had seen the lorry slowing, just any normal day on a roundabout until the lorry driver stopped braking and kept going.
all those "police decided no further action" comments made me think not worth itOk who has bought a camera off the back of this
Does yielding require slamming on the anchors these days?
Well I'm not sure how else you're suggesting the cyclist should have yielded to the tanker in that situation. Maybe not used the roads at all? Or just got off and walked across that roundabout because he might get in the way of other road users?
As D0NK said, he did yield - otherwise he wouldn't have been able to contribute to the programme!
Well I'm not sure how else you're suggesting the cyclist should have yielded to the tanker in that situation. Maybe not used the roads at all? Or just got off and walked across that roundabout because he might get in the way of other road users?
He wasn't sure the lorry driver had seen him, yet he continued. Anyway this is pointless as I don't know the junction so can't comment really.
Be vigilant and be safe kiddies. Don't wear glasses, work in IT or ride like a cock. 😀
I'm surprised people thought that was well balanced. It made us look like a bunch of lunatics.
The drivers too.
But drivers know what drivers are like. They know that stuff goes on all the time. It's nothing new. Not everyone does it, of course - but everyone knows that too. Almost all of us are drivers, so we feel we know them well. Cyclists on the other hand are a little known minority group commonly stereotyped. A stereotype which the BBC have just painted perfectly. They have reinforced it out of choice.
The BBC produce some really good documentaries. And this wasn't one of them.
He wasn't sure the lorry driver had seen him, yet he continued
It would be impossible to make progress otherwise.
The thing is, the tanker most likely did see him, and this is my point, he expected the boy to give way! We could argue all night about r.o.w. but you and I know, bike or truck, only one winner isn't it.
then that (professional) driver is an idiot who shouldn't still have a licenceThe thing is, the tanker most likely did see him, and this is my point, he expected the boy to give way!
undoubtedly, still think braking when you are on the roundabout is a bad habit to get into and could well lead to plenty of trouble from traffic behind you not expecting you to brake. Emergencies only.We could argue all night about r.o.w. but you and I know, bike or truck, only one winner isn't it.
undoubtedly, still think braking when you are on the roundabout is a bad habit to get into and could well lead to plenty of trouble from traffic behind you not expecting you to brake. Emergencies only.
Absolutely. The guy done all he could. He tried to make eye contact. Thought he had established it. And he eventually stopped. To say that we're expected to do more speaks volumes.
You have to look after yourself, yep. But as said, the alternatives are just as likely to get you flattened. Damned if you do and damned if you don't. And this is one thing the [s]documentary[/s] programme completely missed.
D0NK:Shall we agree to disagree.
Im sure you, like me, are a competitive cyclist who cycles thousands of miles on the road each year. And that controlled braking when encountering potentially hazardous situations whilst cycling through roundabouts with HGV's is best measured by the individual and comes naturally to ensure your safety first, and that of other road users?
I'm off to bed, up early to commute through that very roundabout. Where I will be watching everyone like a hawk:-)
Genuinely, stay safe.
aracer - Member
Also I was rather disappointed by the bike copper in the incident with the cyclist banging on the red cab. A whistle would make somebody realise they were driving too close? I get that he was mainly defusing the situation, but seemed all to willing to pass a bit of blame onto the cyclist, and completely failed to point out to the cabbie that if the cyclist could touch his cab then he was driving too close.
Copper didn't witness the incident
Anyone ordered a whistle?
ah so you may know some important detail about it that I missed on the clip. But so far yeah agree to disagree.I'm off to bed, up early to commute through that very roundabout.
Happy [s]trails[/s] roads
Im sure you, like me, are a competitive cyclist who cycles thousands of miles on the road each year.
over 2000 miles on his blog on the road to sept about the same off road
HTH
true did seem more deferential to the driver tho, I guess he had seen the cyclist rlj but not whatever the taxi driver was supposed to have done, [b]but[/b] cyclist stated his reason for rljing and other cyclists backed up his story of dodgy driving by taxi man, editing tho so who knowsCopper didn't witness the incident
Love the bag-grabbin' encounter - made me chuckle.
Some cowbag once overtook me with little space given and then positioned the car near to the kerb immediately stopped and indicated right to join another street all in the space of about 50 yards... I still to this day can't understand why she did it. Just seems to be this mentality that vehicle users must get in front/get past as if i'm holding their journey up. Why is a ten second wait to make a safe pass or just to hold back so difficult, just impatience end of the day.
There is no way I would cycle in London... Or get a road bike.
I bet cyclegaz likes peanut butter on toast
Not much being said about cyclists wearing earphones got to be the daftest thing to do, you need your wits about you at all times and don,t be afraid to stand up to any clown who gets out of his motor , he may be in for a bit of a surprise.
I can't believe some people seem to think the cyclist on the roundabout was somehow at fault for not stopping to let the lorry pull out on him. Staggering.
edlong - Member
I can't believe some people seem to think the cyclist on the roundabout was somehow at fault for not stopping to let the lorry pull out on him. Staggering.
Doing something just because it's 'right' doesn't instantly make it 'wise'
The guy with the tanker on the roundabout did everything right as far as I can see. The lorry driver was completely at fault.
I've ridden 5,000 miles so far this year on my commute from west to east London and I think I've seen or nearly experienced pretty much every situation shown in the programme. There's arseholes on all sides in all walks of life - sometimes you just have to get on with it.
i find if I ride somewhere I don't know it's normally more enjoyable, probably ride slower, more cautious, unsure of route and traffic so give way to pushy drivers more
Yeah good point. We weren't in a hurry either. We commuted from Streatham to the Olympic park (12 miles ish) right through the centre of town. There's LOADS of bikes around at that time of day, people of all sorts riding. OK London doesn't have the best cycle network in the world but its and old, densely built city and it must be tricky to fit new stuff in. But the marked and numbered cycle routes are great for finding your way round and for the most part all the road users seem to be on the ball and not in too much of a rush to kill anyone 🙂
Anyone who "would never cycle in London" would be presently surprised I think. 🙂
I thought it was ok, def not as bad as I was expecting.
We are all cyclists so we will always take the view that we where hard done by. But I'm guessing so will lorry drivers and taxi drivers.
The documentary really could have ended with "****s are ****s doesn't matter if they drive a car/taxi/truck or ride a bike."
Not much being said about cyclists wearing earphones got to be the daftest thing to do, you need your wits about you at all times and don,t be afraid to stand up to any clown who gets out of his motor , he may be in for a bit of a surprise.
No worse than drivers with their stereo on bangIng out toons. I wear headphones and can still hear traffic around me.
doesn't matter if they drive a car/taxi/truck or ride a bike
I am getting a bit tired of this attitude, cyclists are more vulnerable road users, it's like taking a knife to a gunfight then finding out everyone else has apache gunships.
Cycling in London is terrible but it's better than almost any other city in the UK and way more pleasant than riding on rural A roads.
No worse than drivers with their stereo on bangIng out toons. I wear headphones and can still hear traffic around me.
What utter pish.
The look on the red light jumpers face when the big fella gripped his shoulder was priceless. Wearing headphones in traffic is moronic.
What utter pish.
Good debate reply there. 😉 🙄
I'll raise your utter pish to, you have no idea at what volume I play my music at. Cant hang about I have an appointment with certain death <pops ear phones in> tell my wife I love her.
Cant hang about I have an appointment with certain death <pops ear phones in> tell my wife I love her
Is she fit ?
[b]legend[/b] - I'm following this on a car forum too, they seem to agree - minus a bit of a moan about flashing lights
Clio drivers loave a good moan.
" way more pleasant than riding on rural A roads." You obviously missed a memo all rural roads have been reclassified as motor skills test tracks so drivers can enjoy driving to their or their cars limits.
My hero. [i]Swoons[/i]
What utter pish.
Springsteen for me this morning for some reason. Not looking behind you when changing road position or being aware of your surroundings is what is dangerous, not a bit of background music. Deaf people cycle too and motorcyclists can hear nothing.
How can you possibly watch that show and think headphones are in any way significant?
motorcyclists can hear nothing.
I must have bat like ears then
doesn't matter if they drive a car/taxi/truck or ride a bike
I am getting a bit tired of this attitude, cyclists are more vulnerable road users, it's like taking a knife to a gunfight then finding out everyone else has apache gunships.
I never said they weren't the most vulnerable, I'm talking about attitudes, T**ts act like t**ts because that's what they are not what they ride.
Bike DOES NOT give you the right to be a T**T
Copper advises buying a whistle!
If we all get whistles London is going to sound like 24 hour 80s rave!!
All we need now are industrial quantities of glowsticks!
And, if we all have whistles, how are we going to know which one is a copper wanting us to stop?
motorcyclists can hear nothing.
Utter rubbish 🙂 but your point is sound.
As a motorcyclist I actually wear earplugs for any journey over about 10 miles. You have to or you wreck your hearing. 2-up we have an intercom so we can talk to each other.
On the cycling in headphones thing it's really just about being sensible.. I wore them at 6.30am in Farnborough but there's not much traffic about and a lot of the route is traffic free or back roads. On the way home, different kettle of fish. More traffic and I preferred not to. You just have to assess the risk. But you CAN hear the traffic with them on, to say you can't it just dumb.
LOL @ Roger 😆
I can't believe some people seem to think the cyclist on the roundabout was somehow at fault for not stopping to let the lorry pull out on him. Staggering.Doing something just because it's 'right' doesn't instantly make it 'wise'
I maintain that stopping in the middle of a busy roundabout to let traffic that doesn't have right of way to pull onto it in front of you is far from wise.
If I was a motorist following a cycle round a roundabout, I wouldn't be expecting them to suddenly stop, and in fact I reckon there's a fair chance I would rear-end them if they did.
And creating an expectation in motorists (i.e. the truckie) that the normal rules of priority / right of way are reversed for bicycles creates much more, not less, danger for everyone.
cause it doesn't make a huge difference, what about car radios? are you going to ban them? what about deaf riders, you going to ban them too?Not much being said about cyclists wearing earphones got to be the daftest thing to do
Personally I usually don't wear headphones while commuting on the road (and I wear a helmet and a bit of hi viz) but don't see it as a crime if other riders choose different. The dude with the cans on did RLJ I think and maybe didn't look around much, criticise him for that but wearing headphones doesn't suddenly make you unable to ride
Ah, I knew this was a good thread to avoid. Typically, its now about STW rather than the TV programme of the title 🙄
What shocked me last night was the footage from that guys cement lorry. I couldn't believe the amount of cyclists squeezing up the tiny gap on the the inside of trucks and buses as they approached junctions. Absolute insanity IMHO!
Seriously... are you really in that much of a hurry that you can't just sit behind until it pulls away in front of you? At least give yourself a fighting chance of not getting squashed!
Oh... and I'd happily have decked Gareth the web developer. The smug, sanctimonious git
I had to stop watching that after a while, never thought I'd find a bloody Taxi driver, who I generally hate with a vengeance with more common sense than a biker. I have to say it made me realise what a bubble I dwell in, I hand't realised just how many more roadies there now are, if they are anything like the born again (motor)bikers of the late nineties and early noughties then it is hardly surprising there is this increased level of intolerance of one another from a road commuters perspective.
And as for Plod on a bike, Geez doesn't it just make you hate them even more..
Sadly it also goes to explain what has happened here during the period from before when the place crashed and now, just so many more who cycle but seem to no longer have either that 'savvy' or sense of commonality that we as a minority group used to have back a while ago.
A sad programme and scary reflection of just how crowded and dangerous our roads are and how little awareness of their own mortality some riders appear to have.
I couldn't believe the amount of cyclists squeezing up the tiny gap on the the inside of trucks and buses as they approached junctions. Absolute insanity IMHO!
Me too, I really can't believe anyone would do that
I used to commute by car to the tune of approx 150 miles per day. when I started I was really uptight about being on time etc, and frankly drove like an utter cock. About 3 months in I had a bit of an epiphany and realised that unless I modified my behaviour I would end up dead either by car or by heart attack. One of the things I did was to amuse myself by trying to drive without using my brakes unnecessarily. timing my run up to traffic lights/junctions etc allowing the vehicle to slow by taking my foot off the gas etc etc. Curiously about the same time I started to suffer less sinlge finger salutes and road rage style cut ins across my line of travel and so forth.
IMHO: You can excaerbate situations and you can mollify them by pretty simple actions. Generally speaking the show focussed on folk who seemed intent on exacerbation. The bottom line is we live on a crowded planet, and there are no simple solutions other than a bit of courtesy and consideration in both directions. Obviously townplanners taking their head out of theor arses wouldn't go amiss either, but hey its the real world.
[quote=DezB ]Ah, I knew this was a good thread to avoid. Apparently not.
amuse myself by trying to drive without using my brakes unnecessarily
I used to find a spot on my windscreen and use it as a crosshair of my imaginary gun (complete with noises). Strangely cathartic.
Thought the lorry driver was hyper aware of cyclists, but then it did show he had gizmos to let him know when he had riders alongside. He was very good and had all the gear and I can see how a driver in a lesser lorry who didn't have the improved mirrors and maybe less urban experience may kill a cyclist coming up his inside whilst he turns left.
Well done to the lady who lost her daughter, she was so broken by it. Sad to watch. Her approach to the company and how she went about getting them to implement changes to their fleet and subsequently the companys actions were commendable. Outside of that individual case though, is it financially viable to kit out lorries in that way? They said that on average their fleet killed 1 cyclist a year, how much does it cost to kill a cyclist? Is it a reasonable 'business'(not moral) decision to invest in preventative measures for these type of companies?
On another point...how **** are some peoples brakes!?! From watching the incident with the lorry, I think he could have reacted to the lorry quicker and stopped before he was that close to the tail. Not saying give r.o.w. as a matter of course but do react to the situation. Guy who rear ended the lady on the cycle path, again I reckon I could have stopped. etcetc (MOTs for bikes?? *ducks*)
[quote=mechmonkey ]how much does it cost to kill a cyclist?
I wish I knew. I might be able to afford a couple.
cause it doesn't make a huge difference, what about car radios? are you going to ban them? what about deaf riders, you going to ban them too?
That's a good point: I wonder how many "near misses" are the result of people fiddling with the radio, or listening too intently and not concentrating on what is happening around them. I would suggest that maybe more than you think. This may also be accentuated by the fact that modern cars are far more insulated against sound, making it harder to be aware of what is going on around you.
Deaf people: I have heard they tend to have heightened awareness through their other senses, and therefore are probably more sensitive to what is going on around them than most other people with all senses working perfectly.