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Looks to be interesting as they have more information on the circles origin and the possible repurposing of the stones etc from a circle in Wales.
Aliens... Alice is gonna tells us about the aliens. Gotta be.
This one looks pretty good actually, some actual new info rather than idle speculation.
Though I get what you mean.😁
Interesting stuff.
That slide show in the brewery could have been straight out of Detectorists.
I've recorded it to watch later but I'll look out for that bit.😁
That was great, really enjoyed that.
I find that stuff fascinating, 10 years of hard graft distilled into a an hour of fab telly.
Brilliant programme, the blokes who work out how the Neolithic people engineered the means for moving the stones was fantastic, so simple but so elegant, using actual stone axes made in the same way, and a bunch of young school kids could drag a 1.2 ton stone easily up a slope! Although they probably used Aurochs, which was hinted at in the graphics, which would make the job very much easier.
So now we know the exact quarry that the Bluestones come from, and we know exactly where the bigger Sarcen stones come from as well, the whole system has become so very much bigger than it used to look.
Here’s some Sarcens at the location of the source of the stones used for the Trilithons.
I mentioned this to my OH who is an archaeologist, she had a bit of a mini rant about there being way more interesting stones around the UK, what's with the interest in Stonehenge etc.
I think she's just angry she can't dig at the moment and spends all day working from home cataloguing flint finds.
Proper good telly. Mike's obsession with Stonehenge is producing some really interesting ideas.
Can't help wondering about the editing 'for jeopardy' though. As a layman 'fan' of UK megalithic sites, it was fairly clear to me that in terms of site and topography, that last location they dug for the Welsh circle was a more obvious one than the others. Much more in line with the locations of similar 'western' (using the program's own narrative) monuments.
I might need to revisit the 'Orkney southwards' ideas from the Ness of Brodgar dig in the light of this 'East looks to the West' concept in terms of how these monuments spread.
Ok,I know I posted the PSA but that was far more interesting than even I had hoped for.
To be able to find the exact hole one of the bluestones came from when originally erected over 5 thousand years ago around 150 miles away... utterly mind blowing. To confirm the age of the hole itself by measuring how long ago sunlight had hit the quartz crystals in the soil was also an absolute "wow" moment.
What an incredible little group of islands we live on. I wear a Roman Republican denarius on a loop round my neck that i dug up metal detecting some years back. To think that, that coin is nearer to modern times in age than when these stone circles were being constructed is incredible to me.
It also really reminded how utterly transient all life's worries are, even in the current times.
I'll be watching that again.
Pics courtesy of Stonehenge Dronescapes and they really are fabulous.
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Really enjoyed that programme, so much better than the usual theory stuff you get. Have visited Stonehenge once and it was a bit underwhelming, looked bigger on TV etc, but the story surrounding it has always been fascinating.
Prior to Covid, used to pass it at least twice a week on the way to Surrey. Although I have seen it countless times I still feel impelled to look over at it as I drive past.
Went there when I was a kid, when you used to be able to get up close and touch the stones.
Would have been around 3 or 4 at the time, so probably one of my first lasting memories.
A bit OT but
I might need to revisit the ‘Orkney southwards’ ideas from the Ness of Brodgar dig in the light of this ‘East looks to the West’ concept in terms of how these monuments spread.
You care to elaborate / provide me a link? (I’m a big fan of Stenness, I even have the stones in a tattoo...). Brodgar is serious **** you big!
Although I have seen it countless times I still feel impelled to look over at it as I drive past.
Not quite the same but I used to live in Insch in Aberdeenshire which meant I passed Bennachie twice a day and looked towards Dunnydeer on the way home (both Neolithic vitrified hill forts) I never once failed to look and never got bored of seeing them neither...
Basically, there's a theory that a lot of the UK's megalithic sites are all based on the work of the Orkney builders as they (or at least their ideas) migrated South.
Struggling to easily Google up anything academic, but it's mentioned in passing in this article https://www.theguardian.com/science/2012/oct/06/orkney-temple-centre-ancient-britain
There was a Neil Oliver series a few years back that went into more depth (but obviously in a TV friendly way) https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b087vh70
@colournoise: thanks, I’ve Neils previous series on the Stone Age before.
Come to think of it I’ve probably heard that stems from Orkney theory before (based on travel by sea iirc...)
Have visited Stonehenge once and it was a bit underwhelming,
That's exactly what I thought when I first saw it. Then sometime around 1986, I can't recall for certain I got the train to Salisbury and walked there just using footpaths. It was when I first got a glimpse of it that I suddenly got it, it was tiny in the distance, a Spinal Tap Stonehenge, but seeing it like that without any cars, buildings or people around really changed how I saw it. It was like coming across it only having heard stories about, having never seen it or even images of it. I felt I could imagine how it must have been for people thousands of years ago travelling to it.
“For sale: stone circle. Buyer collects.”
That road. Riles me every time I see aerial shots like that. Imagine the impact if you had to walk to Stonehenge.
Bit late to the party, finally caught up with this. Anyone think the frequent shots at ground level of stones with a hint of sun behind was a bit reminiscent of the Time Team opening?
The program was very good and actually the conclusion is far more plausible than a tribe living in Wiltshire randomly “putting in an order” for a bunch of bluestones from 180miles away.
I imagine that they’ll have to reprint a few chapters in text books now!
That Welsh site never looked great for an edifice aligned to the movement of the Sun, if the weather during the filming is representative. I wonder how many midsummer sun-rises were unseen due to cloud. There were a few stones left behind- which seems odd, given their apparent significance- or maybe they just left the tatty ones behind. Perhaps they were hoping to the develop the market for bluestones by putting the henge in a busier location.
develop the market for bluestones by putting the henge in a busier location.
Cos it's on the prime route for the metropolitan stone age man as he travels to spend time at his holiday cave in the west country.
far more plausible than a tribe living in Wiltshire randomly “putting in an order” for a bunch of bluestones from 180miles away
Building material for St Pauls came from Portland. A lot of the stonework for Westminster Abbey came from Caen in France. The list of construction projects built using material from a long way away is endless. Why would this be a relatively modern thing to do?
The problem with second-guessing what people did 5000 years ago is that we know nothing about their cultures, almost nothing about the trading links or relationships with surrounding tribes, and ascribe modern day motives while assuming that the tribes were technologically incompetent. They even did it in this program when they said that it would have been difficult to transport the stones by water. We simply don't know how they moved them. And, of course, we don't even know what henge monuments of any kind were used for, so how can we guess the significance of the type of stone or why it was moved?
It was an interesting project, but it really adds little of value other than 'stones were relocated'. An obvious project would be to determine whether other stone rings have non-local stones and whether they may have been constructed somewhere else. But seeing as so much work is concentrated on Stonehenge, and this took more than a decade, this may not happen in my lifetime.
A final point - I don't think the the programme addressed why the ring was constructed in Preseli in the first place? Surely it would be a massive part of the story of Stonehenge to know what was happening in west Wales at the time, in terms of monumental landscapes.
but it really adds little of value other than ‘stones were relocated’
What about the evidence showing the a generation that died in Wiltshire grew up in Wales?
It was an interesting programme, for sure. You might have skipped over some salient points though.
What about the evidence showing the a generation that died in Wiltshire grew up in Wales?
Archaeologists have already established that bones from Stonehenge, Avebury, etc, originated in different places in Europe, not just Britain. The analysis of the remains didn't show that they came from west Wales - that was a guess. Preseli was just one of many places that the remains may have come from. But it suits the narrative.
Turns out it’s not even a bloody henge!
Why would this be a relatively modern thing to do?
The wheel, if I'd woken up one morning and someone said come on everybody we are going to move 150 miles and we are going to take all our stones with us I'd of said don't mind me I'll just sit down and have another cup of tea while I wait for someone to invent the wheel
The wheel....
The wheel only works if you've good enough roads to use it on.
Anyway, what's the point of your argument? The stones WERE moved 100s of miles pre-wheel...
Anyway, what’s the point of your argument? The stones WERE moved 100s of miles pre-wheel…
To explain why people may have thought that moving stones a long way was relatively modern, you know the question you asked. 😊
how will future archeologists interpret this monument?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-56104281
Just a PSA.
This is on again tonight at 9.30PM on BBC1.👍
I thought it was incredible when I viewed it last time so I'll be watching it again.
Meant BBC2! LOL
Thanks. Missed it first time round. I find it all very evocative and interesting and spent the 1st lockdown cycling to as many hillforts, stones and barrows as possible along The Ridgeway. A place you can sit and take yourself back in time.
^^ I absolutely and exactly know what you mean by that.
I totally missed this thread first time around.
iPlayer, then? Is it just called "Stonehenge"?
I could just look, of course.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000s5xm/stonehenge-the-lost-circle-revealed
Sorry mate, went off to watch a rather rubbish film after my last post. That's the one.
I caught the end of it again last night, I’ll have to do the catch-up thing and watch it right through again. The road really annoys me too, it’s a colossal bottleneck, due to drivers slowing up to gawk at the stones, but the plane to tunnel it keeps getting delayed because of people moaning about it ‘destroying the stones’! No, it’s already doing that, and any damage done during construction will likely be balanced by the opportunity to do more research along the new line of the road. I’ve even seen people whining that a tunnel would take away their right to see the stones while driving past! 🤬
because of people moaning about it ‘destroying the stones’!
The landscape around the site is probably filled to the brim with more material than we could ever dream of. By building a tunnel on this site, we would destroy literally priceless knowledge about Neolithic and probably Mesolithic Britain. The "people" moaning are in fact, some of the most respected archaeologists who've studied the area Like Francis Pryor and Mike Parker Pearson who called the plan; "Head bangingly stupid"
and any damage done during construction will likely be balanced by the opportunity to do more research along the new line of the road
The damage to the area by building a tunnel through it, would be catastrophic loss of our history, just so folk could get to their holidays a half hour quicker...It's completely idiotic.
I thought the "oh look we have found an exact match between a stone and the hole" to be extremely tenuous tbh!
I bet if you looked at most holes and most stones of this size and type they would "fit" together, given the tollerances involved..
What was insanely clever was dating the soil from the last time it saw light, using Optically-Stimulated Luminescence (OSL) which is an utterly brain scrambling thing:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optically_stimulated_luminescence