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Can't believe its 20 years since Imola. I can remember it like it was yesterday watching as it unfolded on TV.
There look to be some very good programmes on Sky F1 and various bits and bobs on the F1 sites.
Important not to forget Roland Ratzenberger either...
senna docufilm this week on itv4 2200 may 4th
20years...... still believe it was steering column failure...
Important not to forget Roland Ratzenberger either...
His family sent really lovely cards to people who sent condolences, even those who sent them over the internet (quite a new thing in 94). I still have mine somewhere.
20 years...crikey. What have I done with my life over the last 20 years? Senna was my childhod hero, I bought tickets to go see him race at Silverstone that year. I never got to see him race in the flesh 🙁
20 years tomorrow since Ratzenberger's crash then? Just thinking about that scene in the docufilm where it shows him talking to one of the team, and he's saying something along the lines of he's never driven like this before with a big smile on his face... Shivers down the spine.
20 years, crikey!
I remember the report referring to him as being either brain dead or clinically dead, and thinking what does that actually mean - oh, he's actually dead.
Greatest driver of his generation by a country mile, same as Schumacher and Vettel. Sad to think the state Schumi is in now too.
^^ +1
Senna was my childhod hero
mine too...the following day i went and bought a copy of each newspaper that reported on it (except the Sun)...still have them in a box in the loft i think...also had a seninha t-shirt and the senna s t-shirt. both have now been retired and put in frames....
that season was the last one that i watched....its not the same without him.
got the senna dvd at home still in the wrapper...i'll have to make time to watch it this week
got the senna dvd at home still in the wrapper...i'll have to make time to watch it this week
Do! It's excellent.
I can't believe it's twenty years...that Imola weekend was just horrible.
The accidents of Ratzenberger, Senna and the serious crash involving Barichello cast a shadow over the sport from that day on. The safety culture of the time had clearly become complacent, the change in regulations had resulted in cars that behaved unpredictably and the circuit design was equally unforgiving.
I remember that period with a sense of wounded disbelief - it was just unbelievable. Barrichelo's crash was like "woo, close one! 🙂 ". Then Ratzenberger, and there was no humour about that. Then the startline crash, and a sense that, somehow, we'd got away with that one, and now we can have a great race. Then Senna.
And somehow, even after all that, we go to the next race, Monaco, to try and lay the seeds of normality that will allow us to move on, and Wendlinger had his horror smash and was left in a coma. Just unbelievable, the whole thing. Was it Lauda who said "it was like god had his hand over formula one for twelve years, and that weekend he took it away". Sounds about right to me.
Greatest driver of his generation by a country mile
Except he wasn't. Even if you don't like Prost, to say Senna was a country mile better than him is simply balls.
Same with Schumi, really.
Except he wasn't. Even if you don't like Prost, to say Senna was a country mile better than him is simply balls.
I think we will have to agree to disagree on that one 😉
I think we will have to agree to disagree on that one
Controversial! 🙂 I'm with dragon - there's just nothing to say Senna was a mile better - better, you could argue. A country mile better? Nah.
They are always the greatest when they are dead.
Why do they have to be the greatest only in death?
Can't they be the, say, 4th greatest even in death?
🙄
Lets not fight about who was best Prost or Senna - both were incredible drivers for different reasons and most people have a preferred candidate for who was the best.
There have been many great drivers over the years - some living, some unfortunately no longer with us.
I never liked Senna until he drove for williams, I wasn't a Mclaren fan in general. I remember when the news reported that a formula 1 driver had been killed on the Saturday night I was sure it was Senna, I was relieved it wasn't. It didn't last long 🙁
There's a Ratzenberger documentary on SkyF1 this week at some point.
[url=
this was working hard at the wheel[/url] (Senna Monaco Content)
Well at 6.40pm today it will have been exactly 20 years.
Some of the stuff Sky have shown has been great - The Last Teammate was very good, taking Damon Hill & Mark Brabham back to Imola.
Seems to be little coverage of his karting, FF & F3 racing though. His first FF win at Brands in the p*****g rain back in 1981 was phenomenal.
Will be watching Senna tonight.
Corinthians, Brazilian football team that Senna supported, came out in helmets as a sign of remembrance.
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Except he wasn't. Even if you don't like Prost, to say Senna was a country mile better than him is simply balls.
He really was. He won 40% of all the races he started. Untouchable. No one else has not near those stats
And schumacher only beat him when he was cheating.
Except he wasn't. Even if you don't like Prost, to say Senna was a country mile better than him is simply balls.
Donington 93. With Senna in a 3rd rate car he pulls over 2 seconds a lap.
On the 1st May 1994 I'd been staying at a friend's place and for reasons lost in time we turned on the television just as the medical team were working on Senna by the side of his car. Murray Walker's calm and sombre narration will live with me for a long time yet.
Anyway, last night I watched the Imola race in it's entirety first time. It was an extremely difficult thing to see, knowing the outcome on lap six. Perhaps the most shocking aspect for me in the buildup to the race was the lack of runoff areas, a stricken car had nowhere to go except into the wall.
And to think that were it not for a bent suspension pushrod, Senna may well have walked away from a bad accident...
Never liked Prost. Always seemed to be involved in a lot of political behind the scenes meddling to get his own way. Getting a clause in his contract preventing Senna being his team mate also doesn't seem very sporting. Felt like Prost mostly won his races off the track.
Corinthians, Brazilian football team that Senna supported, came out in helmets as a sign of remembrance.
I had a video that Duke did, A Star Called Ayrton Senna, that showed a clip of a heaving football stadium after the accident with, what, 60 000 people in it, all singing his name. Raises the hair on your arms.
He really was. He won 40% of all the races he started. Untouchable. No one else has not near those stats.
He won 41 Grands Prix. He did a lot more than a hundred - was it a hundred and sixty or so?
Or have I been fooled by the double negative in the second sentence...? Doh! 🙁
Well ignore the fact that Prost outscored Senna in both 1988 and 1989 in the same car. Regardless the below sums it up best.
[i]These two drivers were so closely matched, so exceptional but unfortunately so different in so many ways.[/i]
Never liked Prost. Always seemed to be involved in a lot of political behind the scenes meddling to get his own way. Getting a clause in his contract preventing Senna being his team mate also doesn't seem very sporting.
You hear that a lot, and I always think it's pretty unfair - which of the greats DOESN'T do a load of work behind the scenes to get the team and suppliers onside? And when Senna went to Lotus )breaking his contract with Toleman, at the end of his first season in F1), he vetoed Derek Warwick (I think) as a team mate, because he didn't think the team could run two cars at their best spec.
And when Senna went to Lotus )breaking his contract with Toleman, at the end of his first season in F1), he vetoed Derek Warwick (I think) as a team mate, because he didn't think the team could run two cars at their best spec.
and when he was trying to get a contract with Ferrari he wanted the fastes available driver to know he was getting the best from the car...
http://www.gocar.gr/races/f1/12562,Ayrton_Senna_at_Ferrari_A_deal_that_was_.html
I have nothing to base this on, but that sounds... A bit dodge to me. He was laughing in 1990, Prost had left, Berger had come in, he had the whole team around him and the best car - why would he be looking to move to a team that hadn't at that time won a title since 79? There's a popular belief that Senna wanted to end his career at Ferrari, and I can believe he might have spoken to them but signing a letter of intent? Seriously?
For the record
161 grand prix starts
41 wins
65 pole positions
so that's 25% wins and 40% poles
Overall, he wasn't a country mile better than Prost. On his day though he probably was (eg Monaco)
As to the Ferrari thing, I remain unconvinced that it would have actually happened but I do believe he'd have given it serious consideration.
Wouldn't be surprised if it was all contract negotiation shenanigans. Think letters of intent get signed and broken all the time when someone comes in with a better offer.
he had the whole team around him and the best car - why would he be looking to move to a team that hadn't at that time won a title since 79?
What, like Schumacher did for $30 million a year 🙂
🙂 To be fair, Schumi turned out to be well worth that money at Ferrari.
I think that Ferrari would have fitted in with his character and I reckon with a desire to create a legacy of some sort that would help him transition to politics in Brazil. Winning for Ferrari would been the icing on the cake.
I have nothing to base this on, but that sounds... A bit dodge to me. He was laughing in 1990, Prost had left, Berger had come in, he had the whole team around him and the best car - why would he be looking to move to a team that hadn't at that time won a title since 79? There's a popular belief that Senna wanted to end his career at Ferrari, and I can believe he might have spoken to them but signing a letter of intent? Seriously?
Look up on youtube where Senna calls Prost a coward. He makes it known he was looking for a ride at Ferrari. The '93 McLaren was inferior and was powered by a Ford v8 which was 80hp down on the Williams Renault and 35Hp down on the Ford V8 the Benetton had.
i was at McLaren HQ last week shooting the 650s and spent a few minutes looking at all the old GP cars they have there, amazing to see them up close but i never realised how fluro the marlboro cars were they just looked red on the tv.
What, like Schumacher did for $30 million a year
Of course, these guys want to be paid what they think they're worth and more, but I don't think they would compromise their career just for money. The constructors titles for 91 and 96 would suggest that both of them made the right decision at the time -
1991 constructors top 3
1 McLaren-Honda 139
2 Williams-Renault 125
3 Ferrari 55.5
1996 constructors top 3
1 Williams-Renault 175
2 Ferrari 70
3 Benetton-Renault 68
Look up on youtube where Senna calls Prost a coward. He makes it known he was looking for a ride at Ferrari. The '93 McLaren was inferior and was powered by a Ford v8 which was 80hp down on the Williams Renault and 35Hp down on the Ford V8 the Benetton had.
I have no doubt at all that he was speaking to them by '93 or even earlier, when he couldn't get a Williams for '93. But 1990, to drive for them in '91? They didn't win a race in '91. And the McLaren might have had less power that Benetton's factory HB, but I'm not sure you could say it was an inferior car, Donington being a case in point - that thing handled...
I'm not sure you could say it was an inferior car
FW14B/FW15C
Who else?
Why move? Around 1989/90?
FW14B/FW15C
Sorry, my bad - I meant in comparison to the Benetton. There was nowt like the Williams around.
I've realised i've got my years all mixed up. Prost was already in the Ferrari in '90. Senna's coward remark was in reference to Prost's move to Williams. 😳
There's a popular belief that Senna wanted to end his career at Ferrari, and I can believe he might have spoken to them but signing a letter of intent? Seriously?
according to this article it nearly did happen and Ferrari wanted him as much he wanted to drive for them...
http://www.gazzettadelsud.it/news/english/90234/F1--Italy-recalls-Senna--20-years-after-death.html
It's common practice for drivers to explore their options, particularly when a contract is up for review. Remember that Hill was talking to McLaren for 1997 (£800k per annum plus £1m race win bonus was discussed) and also to Ferrari for a possible seat.
A pre-contract is little more than an agreement to discuss terms for a possible deal. I daresay that there are a few others safely contained within vaults that might raise eyebrows in years to come - Schumacher was known to be in discussions with McLaren at one point during the mid 1990s.
And Vettel almost certainly has a pre-contract with Ferrari...
Ferrari might be rethinking it at the moment 🙂
(FWIW, I don't buy into the theory that Vettel is just average but had a great car for four years. I reckon he learnt to drive that EBD and is now struggling to relearn to drive without it given that it's a very different technique (just ask Webber)).
Senna had never hidden the fact that he liked the idea of driving for Ferrari one day.
Schumacher was known to be in discussions with McLaren at one point during the mid 1990s
Well when a senior official from that team pops to see him about it but accidentally wanders into his (then) teammate's motorhome it kinda gave the game away 🙂
FWIW, I never really liked 'Le Professeur' either - he always seemed too close to/pally with certain members of the FIA (much like the management at Ferrari) and seemed to always have the better/faster/reliable car in whichever team he was in. I seem to remember he even had his Ferrari secretly swapped with Mansell's because he was convinced it was quicker than his.
one of my fave senna vid's. Great car, great circuit with the greatest driver.
Love the heel & toe in a pair of leather soled loafers.
Will watch Senna tonight and flick through a few of my Senna books.
Bump.
With all the rememberence of senna recently (rightly so) lets not forget another F1 great died 32 years ago today.
Salut Gilles
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Gilles' accident was horrific. I remember getting back from my Saturday job and finding out he'd died, couldn't believe it at the time even though F1 deaths were still disappointingly frequent at that time.
I've never seen that vid of Senna in the NSX. Awesome.
Siempre Gilles! A tiger of a driver, hard but absolutely fair - if you haven't read it, Gerald Donaldson's biography is great. "What makes you think I'm going to be around next year...?" 🙁 [img] https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQSGZpy3VWTn-N4KWSvXMM_c8hMflZxtXaK3fcVeEVialmikPQO [/img]
Indomitable spirit personified.
Ooo, like the NSX vid here, too - interesting throttle inputs, I know it was done back in the day in turbo cars, I think to spool the turbo up on corner exit and minimise lag, but that's not what he's doing there! Last run out of spoon is awesome, makes you realise that no, you can't do that... 🙂
Scotchegg - Glad you like. One of my fave's too. Makes it look *sooooo* easy, which I guess it would be if you're used to an F1 turbo, but still.....
Pondo - From what I've read Senna was renowned for jabbing the throttle, turbo or non turbo car, but I'm sure it'd help with a turbo, like you say.
[url= http://www.iprimus.ca/~trauttf/Gilles/Obituary.htm ]Nice little obiturary from Nigel Roebuck here on Gilles.[/url] Probably fair to say motor racing will never see his type again.
Through the whole of the 'Senna' film Prost doesn't come out looking too good. But...then you see him him carrying the coffin and the very last sentence of the whole film leaves you thinking "OK, maybe he was a good guy after all". I think they were both ultra competitive which was a good thing for F1. 'Senna' really is a gripping film.