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Seems a bit silly for something so, relatively, new with such little merit so what’s the thinking behind it?
Could be to do with Class Q Permitted Development Rights, which allow conversion of agricultural buildings to dwellings without having to go through the more thorough planning process.
Although I don't think that Class Q PD Rights can be applied in a Conservation Area or AONB, and I'm sure that they mentioned it was in one of these are the beginning of the episode.
That was a great episode. The planning issue was crazy though, they've been able to change the pitch of the roof for some of it yet couldn't take down the timber structure and then repair and reinstall it exactly as it was. I could understand the structure having to be built exactly as before with the same timber where it was still structurally sound but not being able to take it fully apart appeared to achieve nothing but add cost. Perhaps if they'd had the money to employ a specialist in planning appeals or better still go to a charity dinner with the right minister it could have been avoided.
I hope they get a long time together to enjoy it, however long I'm sure they'll make the most of every moment.
I'm sure it would have been agricultural conversion - we know some people who did it and it was similar (except theirs was steel framed). Everything came down except the steels though they used new wood to clad it.
it was effectively a loophole - intended to allow people to convert attractive old stone barns it suddenly opened up converting any agricultural building, no matter how little merit it had, as long as you didn't completely demolish it and kept the appearance very similar.
Still makes no sense.
Fist episode was a load of toff tosh; got some balls though.
The guys from episode 2 were fabulous. I hope she has as long a life as anyone in her forever home - her immensely driven husband kept saying he wanted to enjoy whatever time she has left so I do hope it wasn’t terminal.
The money spent vs what they ended up with was immense. The effort she put into the wood and the end result, stunning.
It did look a bit National Trust Cafe from the outside but I quite like that.
Great house, great couple, great epsisode.
Me and the mrs were very concerned the entire way through - wishing them the very best.
It did look a bit National Trust Cafe from the outside but I quite like that.
One could make the argument that the National Trust employ better architects for their cafe's than any major UK house builder has in 40 or 50 years (a lot of pre-1980ish housing estates have aged pretty well. 60's and 70's houses didn't look backward, good room sizes, large windows, decent plots. I may be picking the best and ignoring the dross)
I don't normally watch GD but have been to a few of their roadshows and Self build exhibitions via work. After reading this thread I watch these last two episodes and really liked them. The first guy had exception taste and it worked, but it felt a like a bit of a shopping trip really. This last one however was brilliant and it was a great ending. Really good upbeat TV.
If GD was 'live' and did a weekly update on current builds sorta thing - this week's couple would get loads of people wanting to give them a hand, they were great.
Well we didn't see it as so cut and dried, and was expecting a nice one after the posts above, but didn't see it as a sweet story. He embarked on a huge project, when time together would be better spent than stressing out trying to convert a building so badly suited to conversion. Really he expected the agricultural barn foundations to be good enough to use, without modification, was he a complete idiot or naïve? (or just good GD drama?) Then, to not make is more disabled friendly, when she is definitely very ill, and wheel chair access would be more useful long term. She looked terrible mid build, what would have happened, if she hadn't made it?
The the finished product, how awful was it for the most part inside, clinical white nasty? Lots of great features, like the stairs and the circular walk, but features do not make a home.
I love GD and have watched it for many years, but is it only me who look at theirs and many other GD homes and think, why do you need such a large space, how the f*** are you going to heat that effectively, whose/how are you going to keep it clean? If only they hadn't gone so large (majority of GD programs, not specifically this one), they could have retired and had a nice life, instead of needing to work through your retirement.
Wasn't a good one for us, even with the great efforts he was willing to put in.
Cause it’s ‘Grand Designs’, not ‘Most practical and smallest we can get away with Designs’
I’d imagine her health is EXACTLY why they did it tbh. She wanted her own place, having not left home before... have you got any idea how much property in Sevenoaks costs?! This way she gets her own space, right next to her parents, for a fraction of the cost of buying a house or even a plot of land with PP elsewhere. No they probably didn’t need somewhere so big, but the size was 100% determined by the existing structure. It was a no-brainer tbh.
'Modest Designs' Doesn't quite have the same ring haha. Liked the end result, happy for the couple. Having worked on a barn exterior last year I didn't envy all the work involved in the cladding! Interior was a tad clinical but a lick of colour easily sorts that.
It was effectIvely a bungalow so she could easily move about, the only bit upstairs was her hobby room which could be moved downstairs if needed. I took the ‘generous’ corridor space to mean it would be wide enough for a wheelchair if that became necessary
The decking leading up to the door was also Ramped so I'm sure it was considered for the future if her health got bad enough to need a wheelchair
@phil5556, grumpier but my partner isn't, and she agree with me on this one.
No they probably didn’t need somewhere so big, but the size was 100% determined by the existing structure. It was a no-brainer tbh.
Your telling me they couldn't (impossible eh?) have done half the barn, and left the other half as it was? Yeah, real no brainer.
tomhoward
Cause it’s ‘Grand Designs’, not ‘Most practical and smallest we can get away with Designs’
if you & the others and the other believe a house can only be a great grand design if it huge, your just wrong... this is one of the best GD ever, and just shows size means nothing for a great Grand design
Personally I didn't see it was designed well for a disabled person.
This may come as a disappointment, but they probably didn't take your wishes into consideration when they were planning it. Jolly thoughtless of them, I know...
Then, to not make is more disabled friendly, when she is definitely very ill, and wheel chair access would be more useful long term.
...how the f*** are you going to heat that effectively,
...whose/how are you going to keep it clean?
Disabled access is pretty much built into building regs now. When got planning permission well over 5 years ago we needed to comply with most of the stuff in the Lifetime Homes Standards - level thresholds, minimum corridor and door widths (and spaces between worktops in kitchen). Downstairs toilet needed to be large enough for wheelchair use and be able to be converted into a shower-room in future. Their place had all those things as far as I could see.
They were planning on an air source heat pump so suspect they had a reasonable awareness of green building practices. With a good level of airtightness and insulation, (or even just at current building regs standards) heating a large space isn't expensive. We spend far more on water heating than space heating in our house.
As for cleaning, shut the door on the rooms you're not using.
I'm pretty sure that with how involved they were in the design and build, they will have taken their own requirements in to consideration. With their ambition, skills, resources and position they looked to have made something that they were proud of.
It isn't compulsory for those with medical, physical or other constrains to live on an estate of small one bed, terraced bungalows, with red cords in every room.
Sorry wrote a reply and then the page decided to crash losing it all... thought I'd best reply before the next program is shown
@Pondo, nope but that what makes it interesting TV, but see my reply to Peekay below..
@B33k34 I think you'll find that the minimum requirement for disabled, is a different matter to actually being disabled and having the place designed with that in mind.
Also you obviously don't do the cleaning in your own house then?
@Peekay, no I don't believe it's necessary to have red cord in every room if your disabled, but i do believe it's stupid as **** to spend a shit load of money on a property, and not take into consideration your future lives.
All that said, it's a TV program created to cause conversation, with all the tricks of the producers to have the home owner lives become empathic or apathetic to the audience (particularly horribly done in this case, I thought). With a quick glancing tour of their home that doesn't give, me at least, a great feel for the property. All said and done, I did admire the chaps ability to get on and do the work needed (footing), and both their restoration of the outer boarding.
@Phil5556, g/f says grumpier
Also you obviously don’t do the cleaning in your own house then?
@z1ppy not sure why you'd assume that. Actually it is one of my jobs most weeks (but I dont' have to put the bins out....)
As for cleaning, shut the door on the rooms you’re not using.
😀
She's pregnant! Yaaaay
Pregnant in the first 10 minutes....
Even when it goes up shit creek and they're watching their life savings go up in smoke, the couple never seem that stressed or freak out. I've had a meltdown when my wallpapering hasn't quite matched up. I suspect channel 4 act as guarantors or something
Sofa with extra £100k is going to be needed on this one I predict...
handbrake off? 🤦♂️
I reckon his mum and step dad will bail him out, they were getting a free annexe anyway now they're committed they'll just have to pay
How are they still chilled?!?
Yep the grand designs magic money tree again
Going for a bingo full house on this one
I am really liking the design though, and that tile finish. Not usually a fan of open plan, but it's doing it for me.
Was it explained how they managed to get PP? Submitted a design more in-keeping with the area perhaps?
She does have amazing hair though.
I cannot understand how they built all that (including the "annex") for 600k (Inc. £100k for the land). I don't believe it.
She does have amazing hair though.
And stunning eyes. Very Irish.
Edit - bit of a T'Pau vibe going on...
He was a pro so I expected him to get it done better faster and cheaper than any of us would have.
She did have amazing hair, proper wee leprechaun lol.
As for the house. I loved the exterior. Interior left me cold.
Family home ? aye, right up until the 8 yr old climbs through that high alcove and lands in the living room.
Not child friendly imo.
Actually watched an older one tonight as well with the two guys from London who built the flint clad modern farmhouse with rubber roof. Liked that.
He's a builder. I think he called every favour possible.
Even then I'm scratching my head some on the costs...
I cannot understand how they built all that (including the “annex”) for 600k (Inc. £100k for the land). I don’t believe it.
A lot of self employed mates needing work in the pandemic?
Having been brought up out that way, and been back working there in the last few years, I'm not surprised it got done relatively cheaply
But then I'm convinced half these programmes are made up anyway.
See: New lives in the wild in Iceland - Ben arrives by miles of walking and a ropeway across the river.
T'interweb reveals vehicle access on a good road, the river ropeway leads to the ruined farm, and the hot waterfall is actually a 45 minute drive away, not on their land.
See: Neighbours in Sheffield were filming for Location location - producer gave them a dog and had them looking at two of three houses that had already sold... With big garden for the dog that didn't exist.
I'm sure there's a bunch of these programmes that are half truths...
I'm really not sure the pond is a great idea with a youngster.
House was massive.
I talked to an architect about an episode a couple of years ago, and he just laughed at what they'd claimed it cost
I don't see why to wasn't set back from the road more, the neighbours are massively over looked, bet they are dead happy about it
massive pond in front garden with a young child ?!
when they pan out, the immediate
surroundings are not as rural as they try to make out
That pond looked like a drainage sump that will likely be fenced off ( I hope)
Although the High drop will see to the kids before they drown anyway.
Enjoyed the programme but the house wasnt my cup of tea...got it stuck in my head that it reminded me of the Amityville horror house. Preferred the annex house
Was intrigued by the planning permission and how they managed to get it...felt they could have expanded on that
Was a bit brushed over re the planning which was disappointing. I even rewound to see if I missed somit, but naw.
Preferred the annex house
+1 & I'd love to get my hands on an acre plot for £100k too
I think a lot of these builds end up looking like posh office buildings/creative hubs rather than houses. We used to rent these sorts of places for work when we needed out of office space
Millionaires and their kids playing house.
Just happened to have a plot going spare.
Started a micro brewery using family farm buildings etc.
All that glass with no curtains or blinds!
Good for them.
I wonder how many of his other building projects had additional costs added to them?
His building firm probably brings him into contact with planners too.
I wonder how many of his other building projects had additional costs added to them?
I remember seeing some invoices for work we did for a client when I worked in previous employment, let’s just say what was on the invoice didn’t quite match the work that was done
How long before Kev runs out of ways to say "...and then there was a pandemic". There's also a cruel sense of dramatic irony when you see the late 2019/early 2020 update and they make bold claims about what they're going to get done in the coming months while we're all sitting at home saying "oh no you wont".
At first we were wondering why last night's one didn't just focus on getting the annex habitable so they could move in there, not chuck a load of money at rent and then be on-site more for the completion of the visitor centre main house. But then at the end he said he found 100K by mortgaging another property so seems like talk of budgets was made up for the producers (again).
Annex was a proper building, main house was just a folly. Irritated me as it mimics the shape of the Dutch Barn buildings but without needing to due to its construction method - so just an affectation (or a sop to planning). Maybe they just got all the measurements wrong by a factor of two too.
Staircase should have been left raw metal too IMO.
Having said that, the 'porch' was awesome, and I like the rectangular 'pods' poking out of the arched shape in places.
Plus, one of Kev's best ever links - "or are they in danger of getting a clown interior..."
the had huge curtain in the bedroom...
i liked the fires and fireplaces, but hate poncey staircases like those. not a fan of those open plan bedroom/ensuites either with nowt but a floating wall between my head on the pillow and the mrs releasing a flock of seagulls first thing in a morning.
wondered what the situation with his mother were, if they had any dollar would they not have lived in more salubrious digs for the past decade? i reckon once they pop it they will just sell off the annexe? dunno what the house prices are like round there but probably recoup a fair chunk of the (as seen on tv) project cost.
that pond is probably a good place for dumping unsightly submersible shite when you cba going to the tip.. id have one!
I know a guy in the Borders who had a massive garden and dug a huge pit for his junk instead of skip trips.
Lazy barsteward.
Last week's still bothers me on a practical level.
She's obviously not well and I hope they have a long life together.
But what happens when she succumbs (let's face it she's not well)? It's on her parents land, which was gifted but it cost him and her and probably them to build it.
How good will that relationship be when there's someone else there with him? Will a new other half want all that baggage?
Live for now, not for later , maybe ??
Would a lender be happy with that? It's not nice but I'm sure the lawyers/lenders would be dispassionate enough to have everything sorted. I just hope he/they were to.
I now know what you all mean about visitor centres, I was expecting a tourist in high viz waterproofs and boots to come walking round from behind a corner at any minute.
Also, I think the house looks like a crumpled up drinks can lying on it's side.
But what happens when she succumbs (let’s face it she’s not well)? It’s on her parents land, which was gifted but it cost him and her and probably them to build it.
How good will that relationship be when there’s someone else there with him? Will a new other half want all that baggage?
I thought that about last weeks too, but felt a bit mean posting it.
Actually the same is true of this weeks, you now have a second home very much attached to the drive and garden of yours, so you'd have to really want to get on with new inhabitants or split the land with fences down the line once parents are no longer using it.
last nights house was very crude and too big by far, designed by someone with no real design skills, clumsy and unsophisticated. no consistency with the adjacent annex, two completely different designs... why?. entrance looks like it was designed by a child. I liked the brick chimneys but they were too big and on the wrong house and the fascias on the gables were really crude. I like the materials and building system but it looks like someone picked a load of current design trends, and threw them together with no real skill or sensitivity. could be the client or designer??
No mention of environmental impact of size of the development, why so big! or any effort made to reduce the energy use, how was it heated? how did it perform? for example?
Also the ground floor kitchen window being high level for no reason! why? they are happy for everyone driving by to see in the bedroom and ensuite but put the kitchen in an enclosed room with no views. I could go on......
respect for trying to do something contemporary but bloody awful and a total shame opportunities don't come to clients and designers with some vision and actual talent who can produce something positive, contemporary and also beautiful. such a wasted oppurtunity!!!!
(disclaimer - I am an architect specialising in domestic/residential projects and cry inside everytime i see something like this! but can't stop watching the car crash projects on GD also from the fens so even more tears are flowing)
could be the client or designer??
Two thoughts we had - firstly it was an 'Architectural Technician' not Architect, secondly he used the materials and suppliers he knew for 'normal' houses and flung them at this building.
We agreed that the brick chimneys looked odd and some of the spaces seemed poorly thought through.
brads i do but not sure i want to be critiqued by the STW forum! 🙂
@fenboy. Could you answer the question why is it that the buildings designed never seem possible to be built within the clients budget? It’s not just GD but all of this genre. To the uniformed viewer it comes across that the architect has no idea how to design what they can afford to build which is probably unfair
brads i do but not sure i want to be critiqued by the STW forum! 🙂
you know we'll track you down anyway......:-)
chrismac
bit long but I'll try. but this is a bit like therapy for me so excuse me...
It is very complicated when a project is commissioned, designed and then tendered and without early cost control to establish a realistic budget, clients and architects can get a bit carried away with scale, detail, features and often this isn't tested unitl the project is priced in the market. the market is also very fluid and contractors costs can vary enormously depending on the procurement route, size of contractor, cost of materials and labour also the nature of the appointment of professionals (architects, engineers, QS) can have a big impact on a projects success.
A lot of the projects shown on TV have unrealistic budgets, with no real disclosure of this, one thing about last night was the designer did state he had advised the client the budget was too tight. this happens a lot and some/ (maybe a lot) clients don't believe the professionals they employ and think they can do better because their friend told them something different?? Some appointments are restricted and contrary to popular myths we don't make a lot of money so if your invovlement as an architect is limited by cost then oyu have little influence how a project might develop if your appointment is curtailed too early. This is how most of the TV projects go, if we are still involved then 'value engineering' is more easily resolved for a positive outcome!
For any large projects we now always advise using a QS to establish a feasibility cost report that is then used as a design tool with the client to manage expectations prior to putting this to the market. Of course this can all fall apart for any number of reasons. Communication being the main one!
So most of these programmes don't really discuss these aspect of a project and whose involved at what level. The architects are sometimes involved to the end but mostly they fade off as the client doesn't always want to pay for the full array of skills we offer. Plus you do get what you pay for in most cases so if oyu've adequately designed and described a project and used cost reporting from an early stage and you stay appoitned then the difference can be large when it comes to the outcome.
Also you need a decent contingency related to the project circumstances, mostotf the TV programmes theres always a hidden pot of cash that appears, like last night.
I used to work in the commercial field for a number of years and commercial projects were so much easier as everyone is a professional but i love domestic work so do this now.. poorer but happier but dealing with clients and their expectations of cost is one of the hardest parts. Sorry very long....
I liked the tiled finish and overall outside was appealing but seemed..dunno...too chunky in places. Inside not so sure.
Lots of big questions unanswered, the planning and the cost!
This is how most of the TV projects go,
In a past life I sold insulation and render to GD projects.
They choose the people to be on camera carefully - it isn't great TV when Kevin says 'well, they listen to the Architect, agreed a realistic budget, bought in a main contractor who used a near off the shelf timber frame, bathroom and kitchen, and apart from a week lost to the builder having a week in Greece on holiday, finished within a few days and £1k of their budget'.
They do tend to be a bit nuts - it makes better TV.
I liked the exterior of both buildings, although the cladding could do with weathering in a bit. Inside it seemed pretty sensibly laid out and tastefully done (apart from the clown chairs), the Juliette balcony probably needs a trampoline underneath though. I'm assuming the pond outside was a temporary thing or yet to be finished, no way you'd have a 45 degree slope on each side into a pond...
Would be nice to see a break down of costs at the end of the episode but I suspect the numbers wouldn't add up :p
totally agree matt_outandabout this is about making good TV, it would be pretty boring if everything was too close to reality....
In a past life I sold insulation
I used to like matt_oab, I'm not so sure now
😉
PM me if you like I wont mention the site on here. I'm in the thinking hard about it stage of a plan to build a house in the Scottish borders in the next two years so am looking at what Architects / Designers do and who I need to get involved and when.
not sure they succeeded then! As has been mentioned before, Amazing Spaces is a far better show now for many reasons.totally agree matt_outandabout this is about making good TV
Amazing Spaces is a far better show now for many reasons.
Really disagree with this.
There have been a few interesting things, but there seems to be so little content in the show. Most of the screen time seems to be taken up by talking about what is going to be shown later in the programme, what we will see next, what we have just seen and then what we saw earlier. Ending the show on another full description of what we have all just seen.
After every bit with a person on, the presenter then repeats what the person said almost word for word in a voiceover.
GC in voiceover: next we will see if Bob is proud of his bar made from an old grain silo.
GC to camera: I'm about to ask Bob if he is proud of his bar. Bob are you proud of your bar?
GC in voiceover: I've just asked Bob if he is proud of his bar, let's see what Bob says..
Bob: I'm proud of my bar.
GC to camera: Bob, that's great that you are proud of your bar.
GC in voiceover: I'm so pleased that Bob is proud of his bar.
LOL at that grain silo bar - must have taken ruddy ages to take down and erect again! Describing it as portable was a bit of a stretch. 🙂
that was exactly the problem with last nights GD tho! Everything that might have been interesting was totally glossed over!There have been a few interesting things, but there seems to be so little content in the show.
mahalo
Full Memberthe had huge curtain in the bedroom…
All these designs with huge windows, the first thing I look for is any evidence of a curtain or blind, so it was quite a surprise to see the huge bedroom curtains
not sure they succeeded then! As has been mentioned before, Amazing Spaces is a far better show now for many reasons.
Building the Dream is better than both.
Amazing spaces is just made up BS from a trendies keen to build an AirBnB using a Massey35 and some fairy lights. I think half the projects will spring a leak within a month/and/or fall foul of some regulation regarding planning or motor vehicles. That and I have too many stories about George Clark as a student, he was my brothers flat-mate and Architecture course colleague.... 😉
I also think they should do a cost breakdown too.