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Bizzare that so many are disapproving. Is it because he doesn't wear or utilise climbing gear? We all know how much the STWers love buying stuff to make up for their lack of ability. Is it because it's not being done in the real 'great outdoors'? Because we all know how much the STWers love riding, hunting, foraging, cooking on an open flame in the truly dangerous woodlands of the UK. Is it because he takes real risk with his own life and limb purely for the fun of it? Because we all know that STWers love risk on their rigid, fixed gear steel pootle weapons as they tackle a slightly off camber tow path.
I think you've hit the nail on the head there. People are slating him because he won't conform like they had to. Good on him, good on him for jacking in school and going his own way, good on him for dealing with his issues in a positive way. Always inspires me to see people actually living their life rather than just buying it. My palms were getting seriously sweaty watching that though 😯
*sets alarm for 4:30 to look for cranes.
Have to admire this guy for having the courage to do this sort of stuff. Certainly brightens up life for the rest of us.
Really don't get people on here having a go at him. Live and let live and all that? So what if he breaks a few rules. How dull would life be if everyone stuck to the same path?
Selfish, possibly but isn't everyone to some degree? The only certainty in life is death and once you get your head round that then it's just a matter of how you go.
We are all a very slight margin from death every single day. A fraction too close to that fast moving truck, a simple trip high up on Crib Gochs knife edge ridge, or a small mosquito bite in the tropics.
Whether you fall from a crane in a blaze of what others perceive as recklessness/selfishness or die early from chronic heart disease after a lifetime of TV watching and burdoning the NHS with obesity issues, what does it matter?
Mikey74/Dales Rider your kidding yourselves if you think mtb is an extreme sport. For a very few, they guys who do Redbull Rampage etc it is extreme but even then they still appear to get more injured then killed.
TRUE extreme sports you know that if you make a mistake you will die and if you are lucky end up very badly injured.
Re closing the building site for 4 days. Why?
Did it take 4 days of people who spend their lives sat on a sofa to realise that not many folk will actually want to climb up a crane unsecured, and therefore there is not much risk? 4 days to work out nothing, crazy.
Thought this was a mostly liberal forum? Then why all the haters of this young chap on here when he tries to do something different? Just shows how risk averse and soft we have become as a nation in general. Christ, there were career choices back in Victorian times e.g. slate quarrying, that carried as much risk as what this guy is doing!
Yes. I find that level of risk<>reality head game and the confidence to do something like that quite inspiring somehow. I couldn't do it but part of me would like to, just to feel able to ignore those instincts that tell you not to.Always inspires me to see people actually living their life rather than just buying it.
He's in total control of his head. Seemed a nice guy and I don't get the nasty comments that have been made.
Because its STW and a number on here seem to think its the given response.
My opinion, Yes I feel for his mum and it would be a tragedy for her if he was to fall and hurt/kill himself.
For him again theres probably childhood issues that have shaped him this way.
But mentally he's got a lot of control going on in there, even if the rest of the world(and Singletrack)think he's insane.
Yes if he does fall he is gonna make a mess that some unfortunate will have to scrape up , but no different than the mess made if one of those freeclimbers fall, I dare say the freeclimbers referred to all have families that wonder why they do it , so why the critism its all the structure chosen that differs and who is to say he has no climbing skills just because the documentary did not focus on that area.
Still trying to work out how much of the interaction between his mum and him was genuine and how much was staged. If she really wanted to stop him visiting nutters in Ukraine, she could turn off the funding taps.
He certainly wasn't working very hard to disguise his contempt for his mother during that chat on the train when she asked him to stop. Reminded me of a mum asking a 16-year-old to get off his Xbox and do his homework.
How do they not get sweaty palms? I got sweaty palms just watching it. (And the 2nd time this morning with my son!)
I was prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt for a while, before concluding that he was an indulged little idiot in a state of suspended adolescence. Basically Kevin the teenager. As his interactions with his mum constantly reenforced. All that was missing was for him to state that it was SOOOOOOOO NOT FAIR!!!!
But Mrs Binners had concluded he was a complete bell end almost instantly. And she raised a very interesting point that I'd like to throw open to those of you praising him. She said:
"If this guy was from a council estate in Wythenshawe, was dressed in Nike Air tracky bottoms and a baseball cap, and made the same statements as him, but in a broad manc accent - that he'd packed in school at 14 because he couldn't be arsed with it any more, that he'd then spent the next few years lozzing about in his bedroom on his playstation, while sponging off his (single) mum, then decided to wander into Manchester City Centre at night to climb the gantry cranes on the building sites, do you think he'd be getting this kind of coverage? Or something with a completely different tone altogether?"
What do you think?
I think he's a skilled film-maker and athlete and he's got a bright future. His background is irrelevant.
I've certainly got no massive problems with the idea of climbing urban structures, aside from the hassle it causes to companies and their employees if they have to painstakingly check over the cranes afterwards.
I solo climb myself, albeit to a very easy standard, and technically trespass on my bike a fair bit, so it would be a bit hypocritical to criticise him on that score - but I'm still slightly worried about his underlying motivations for doing it, and whether, in the end, that will lead to a bad choice.
What do you think?
A good point Binners, agree with you all the way 8)
[i]What do you think?[/i]
Yes, I think he would. He'd be a bit like the Ukrainian guy then. What they do is pretty amazing and hard for us mere mortals to understand - it would get coverage no matter what their background.
ps. I was pleased that Channel 4 didn't deem it necessary to say "Don't try this at home" throughout the programme!
If you like free climbing and interesting characters:
And if you're interested in the consequences of actions, the interview with Dereks mum and dad (seven minutes into the second part) is heartbreaking.
Love the fact that they had to subtitle his Stretford accent for the Yanks. 😀
Re the comparisons with climbing, there's a saying that "there are old climbers and bold climbers but no old, bold climbers". Basically you either grow out of that sort of risk taking or die doing it. It's only a matter of time before you misjudge something when the margin for error is that small. See John Bachar, Jimmy Jewel etc for details.
If this guy was from a council estate in Wythenshawe, was dressed in Nike Air tracky bottoms and a baseball cap
That was the Ukranian bloke then. Honestly, makes no odds how he's dressed and where he's from. The continuous footage of the middle-England country house obviously added to the intrigue and sense of incongruity but I'd have kept watching and enjoying if he lived in a Ukranian tower block.
[i]Basically you either grow out of that sort of risk taking or die doing it.[/i]
Definitely, would be no surprise whatsoever to hear on the news that James or Mustang had just died from a fall. Almost expect it.
I think you've hit the nail on the head there. People are slating him because he won't conform like they had to. Good on him, good on him for jacking in school and going his own way, good on him for dealing with his issues in a positive way. Always inspires me to see people actually living their life rather than just buying it. My palms were getting seriously sweaty watching that though
Well said, and good luck to the lad, just hope you dont fall and injure someone on the way down, and hopefuly one day he will not need to be rescued alive , andf injured tieing up huge resourses of the emergency services.
selfish? I dont think his selfishness comes across as extreme, just ordinary.
family and loved ones? yep they will be upset and grieve but they will know him well enough to know he's doing what he wants with his life and I applaud, as I hope they do, a life less ordinary.
As for clearing up any mess when they fail, sure people have to but they have to clean up after boy racers crash cars. I'm not sure that argument holds water for me. we all die sometime and we all have to be cleared up. the only certain thing is in life is death.
Edit.
Mustang had it right "tell the guy he's going to die someday too".
good on him for jacking in school
Yeah, because his current chosen "career" is sure to look after him far better than an education.
Erm.
I self-moderated above, just for the sake of not getting banned. But seriously, live and let live, eh?
Yeah, because his current chosen "career" is sure to look after him far better than an education.Erm.
Depends on how much money he is making and how clever he is with it! Looking at his facebook page and the places he has travelled I reckon someone is "sponsoring" him. Possibly GoPro by the tags in his photos.
as james said himself, there is no difference in effort between hanging one handed 10' off the floor or 200'
what seems to irritate folk on here, is they mostly know that even from 10' up, they dont have the strength or control to pull themselves up onto that beam with one hand.
"selfish" "irritating" "desperate for attention" = singletrackironing.
[i]as james said himself, there is no difference in effort between hanging one handed 10' off the floor or 200'[/i]
Of course there isn't, but he kind of smirked after he said it as he knows himself that its not the effort that's the difference but the consequence of what happens if it goes wrong.
I enjoyed the programme, very interesting.
What do you think?Yes, I think he would. He'd be a bit like the Ukrainian guy then. What they do is pretty amazing and hard for us mere mortals to understand - it would get coverage no matter what their background.
Totally agree. I watched it without class or how much support he may have coming into it. In hindsight, I guess his Mum's horrified by what he does as well as glad he's found some inspiration and focus/esteem.
Selfish/immature/etc, maybe not, just had a different life to you. He'll have a wider, wiser perspective from it all if he lives past 25 and packs it in and I sincerely hope he does both.
I think most people who participate in extreme sports have a varying degree of selfishness..
I know have it (having a wife and children have seriously eroded it though).
I find it fascinating how well some people can rationalize and compartmentalize the fear.
these guys are just kids playing in the city, the real men do big walls 😉
Mikey74/Dales Rider your kidding yourselves if you think mtb is an extreme sport. For a very few, they guys who do Redbull Rampage etc it is extreme but even then they still appear to get more injured then killed.
It all depends on your exposure to sports/activities like that. For those of us who ride mountain bikes, it doesn't seem that extreme, but for many many people who haven't been exposed to that sort of activity then it is extreme [Note: I don't mean pootling around your local bridal ways, I mean DH, free-riding, trials etc]. I know people who believe the fact that I go and ride up hills on holiday to be pretty extreme; but then again, compared to sitting on the couch watching X-Factor, it is.
If your definition of "extreme" is that a mistake results in certain death, then the field of contenders is a very small one indeed. Most "extreme" activities have at least one level of back-up system to go through before death is certain. Free climbing, in whatever form, is one, once you get above a certain distance from the ground.
FunkyDunc - MemberMikey74/Dales Rider your kidding yourselves if you think mtb is an extreme sport. For a very few, they guys who do Redbull Rampage etc it is extreme but even then they still appear to get more injured then killed.
TRUE extreme sports you know that if you make a mistake you will die and if you are lucky end up very badly injured.
Well I think you will find it is, when it comes to categorising for insurance its way up there.
The companies lump sports into 7 cats
[b]Cat 1[/b] includes Abseiling, Cheerleading, Cricket, Hiking (up to 2500m)-includes mountain walking (excluding the use of crampons & ice axes), Kayaking (up to grade 3), Mountain biking on cycle paths (not on trails and non-competitive), Scuba diving (to 30m accompanied, 50m if qualified/under instruction), Via ferrata, Volleyball, Walking(up to 2500m), Wall ball, Water polo, Wheelchair curling, Windsurfing (inside 12mile limit),
Thats just a few
[b]Cat 2[/b] Ballooning, Bicycle polo, Bouldering, BMX freestyle, BMX racing, Downhill skiing, Fin swimming,Indoor climbing, In-line skating, Iron man (comp), Mountain biking-cross country (non competitive), Rock climbing excluding climbs with crevassed approaches or descents and also any snow/ice climbing (See ice climbing), Roller blading
[b]Cat 3[/b] Mountain biking downhill, Mountain Biking stunting & jumping, Mountain Unicycling (downhill &/or competition), Mountaineering (with ropes and/or guides) limited to 4,000m when outside of Europe
So they percieve the risk and the potential outcome as more serious than rock climbing, which gets the label "Extreme sport"
MrNice - MemberRe the comparisons with climbing, there's a saying that "there are old climbers and bold climbers but no old, bold climbers". Basically you either grow out of that sort of risk taking or die doing it. It's only a matter of time before you misjudge something when the margin for error is that small. See John Bachar, Jimmy Jewel etc for details.
They were unlucky, Bachar was hit by rockfall an objective danger and Jimmy reversing an easy climb.
What the lad was doing on the program had no real objective dangers only subjective as the majority of rock climbing is. The difference being rock climbing has a level of skill, what was shown has no level of skill what so ever. Hence the reason why I turned it off it was just sensationalising some young kids who took the biggest risks by doing something illegal.
BTW I'm both an old an bold rock climber. 😛
no level of skill what so ever
He's good at balancing, you have to give him that.
torsoinalake - MemberHe's good at balancing, you have to give him that.
Everybody is hence the reason we can walk, hop, ride a bike etc
He was good at back flips, the one think I cant do.
He enjoys what he does.
Let's hope a sudden change in wind direction, hail storm or whatever other distraction means that his young life won't come to an end.
It won't be the falling that kills him. It will be hitting the ground at terminal velocity.
His mother will be alone in that big house then.
Let's hope this doesn't happen.
Maybe if he went looking for a job, settle down with a nice girl/boy/whatever the infatuation with this would go away.
Maybe if he went looking for a job, settle down with a nice girl/boy/whatever
Christ. How boring. Just because most people choose that path doesn't mean those that don't are wrong.
"If this guy was from a council estate in Wythenshawe, was dressed in Nike Air tracky bottoms and a baseball cap, and made the same statements as him, but in a broad manc accent - that he'd packed in school at 14 because he couldn't be arsed with it any more, that he'd then spent the next few years lozzing about in his bedroom on his playstation, while sponging off his (single) mum, then decided to wander into Manchester City Centre at night to climb the gantry cranes on the building sites, do you think he'd be getting this kind of coverage? Or something with a completely different tone altogether?"What do you think?
Not really a fair analogy old chap. If Mr Nike Air was 'sponging' off his hard up family it'd probably cause a lot of financial distress. This guy clearly has a bob or two in the family, so why not do something different? I don't get this puritanical 'work thing'.
well all this info on the free climbing world has changed my opinion somewhat. I had no idea(not into climbing so why would I) that people were doing that sort of thing as a hobby. IMHO what the chap on TV was doing is no different to what the others out in the wilds are doing, they are all crazy mofo's, but live and let live(or die a horrible squishy death)
Still have a problem with the disregard for his mothers feelings but that goes out to anyone who puts themselves in such obvious risk of death on a regular basis, i think it comes with having children, I would have felt differently before.
IMHO what the chap on TV was doing is no different to what the others out in the wilds are doing, they are all crazy mofo's, but live and let live(or die a horrible squishy death)
The difference is the skill level, obviously both require above ordinary levels of mental control. Technically pretty much anyone could do what that lad did. What the likes of Honnold do is on another planet skills wise. For example, as an estimate the number of people in the UK who could climb [url= http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/item.php?id=68652 ]this[/url] route with ropes is probably in the low hundreds I doubt if there is another climber in the world who would take it on solo.
The difference is the skill level,
Agreed, even I could climb most of the stuff he did, however i couldn't do anything in those free climbing clips. But then again I couldn't do a back flip on top of a bridge either. All mentally mad,and physically challenging but only one requiring serious skills.
My chimney needs pointing,i wonder if he...
Just watched it.
Liked all involved.
Tough on the mum, but I think she is secretly a little bit proud of him.
Spin - MemberWhat the likes of Honnold do is on another planet skills wise. For example, as an estimate the number of people in the UK who could climb this route with ropes is probably in the low hundreds I doubt if there is another climber in the world who would take it on solo.
An unbelievable solo, in the past I could put myself in those low hundreds so can appreciate the enormity of his undertaking
[i]What the lad was doing on the program had no real objective dangers only subjective as the majority of rock climbing is. The difference being rock climbing has a level of skill, what was shown has no level of skill what so ever. Hence the reason why I turned it off it was just sensationalising some young kids who took the biggest risks by doing something illegal[/i]
The words of someone kidding themselves..
His climbing comes from free running, which takes a shit load of skill and natural ability. Plenty of mental skill involved too (hence no sweaty palms).
Dales rider - mtbing is in a high insurance bracket because so many people go above their skill and ability and injur themselves, insurance is all about the risk of shelling out cash, nothing at all to do with how extreme the sport is.
Which I personally think hits the nail on the head. People who do TRUE extreme sports tend to be control freaks, very precise people.
The last thing that extreme sports people do is just rush into things, both these lads didn't. Its just like any extreme sport they show you the money shot. Both lads practiced extensively, and had their own ritual before doing their sport.
Not like your mtb trail centre warrior who is awesome and turns up on a Saturday morning, struts their stuff in the car park, whoops and screams his way round a red trail, and then ends up in A&E using up valuable resources...
It's funny, but as a youngster I used to do similar things. Nowhere near the heights these guys are doing, but along the ledges of railway/road bridges, along the top of rooftops etc. I was fearless. But then one day something just changed and now I'm a right wuss, can't even get on a plane without getting lashed 😀
It's definitely all in the mind, and this kind of thing inspires me to start confronting my fears, whatever they be.
The only bad thing I can see coming out of all this is the government using it as an excuse to change the status of trespassing from civil to criminal.
Nope from someone who did what was probably the earliest form of free running, mind we did it outside typically in spate rivers from boulder to boulder. Or tops of pinnacles onto the main crag Brimham was one such spot. Still do a bit jumping the Strid being one as was last years trip to Font.
Also still climb at 6a just last week in Tenerife, also solo up to E2 5b.
so maybe qualify ? Oh and I'm pretty good at climbing buildings, they make them easy to do so
Cool. When's the programme on Channel 4 about you? No? Youtube videos?
Technically pretty much anyone could do what that lad did.
And that's my problem with the programme
That one morning one of my colleagues will go into work and find a copycat climber who thought, that looks easy, in a messy pile at the bottom of one of our towers or masts
Yes we install anti climbs and security guards whilst erecting/wiring but we can't guard against everything and someone determined to get up, will
People make analogies to free climbing, my issue is that's done largely in the wild, there is not innocent members of the public around to see them fall or people that have to deal with the H&S aspects afterwards
Ok it was an interesting subject for a documentary, but like the one C4 did on parkour last year people will imitate - I saw a large increase in people trying free running after that last documentary, (I live in Derby where Tim Shrieff is from so it maybe connected more with the local kids) I know it should be obvious it's dangerous but unfortunately we live in a world with lots of stupid, easily influenced people, there wasn't enough emphasis on its danger and illegality for my liking (speaking as someone who works at height on towers, in the construction/power/broadcast industry so has a professional interest in not having people do this stuff on our infrastructure)
As an aside at one point there was footage of him up an MF radio mast, that will undoubtedly been powered up as normal when he presumably broke in. He is very lucky if he didnt got a serious dose of RF poisoning, he may well have done some serious damage to his body, and he might not even know about it
DezBÂ -Â MemberCool. When's the programme on Channel 4 about you? No? Youtube videos?
I only did the BBC sorry, mind I dont have to proof anything, if you knew me you could look me up in some of the climbing guides, pictures as well 😛
I thought it was really good and they certainly have incredible control and skill. The one thing I find slightly disturbing is the seeming need to keep pushing the danger level in what they do.It wasn't a case of find harder things to climb so much of think of more and more scary things to do once you have climbed it. It felt as if the culture within the sport was to push others towards doing things they didn't feel comfortable with whereas within a more conventional sport such as rock climbing you might not expect your fellow climbers to call you chicken if you didn't want to try something. However this was a tv program and thus shot and edited to an agenda so very hard to come to an informed opinion.
As for the guys mother well she only had to show him the door and tell him it was time to look after himself in life. Having to grow up and take some responsibilities might have done far more to make him consider what he was doing than just telling him she was worried about him. I think with his attitude of wanting to push himself and put himself in difficult places and his clear headed calmness it what really is a life and death situation means he could make a great success at many more things if he put his mind to it. I reckon a bit of having to live a more normal life and support himself might just let him achieve some great things.
well, depression kills a hell of a lot of people in his age group, he was describing pretty severe teenage depression at one point, so in terms of risk of death, [i]not[/i] doing something radical is probably more likely to kill him.
however, im sure the people who own, or work on the things he is climbing on find him a royal pain in the arse.