[Closed] PSA: Brewdog equity for punks!

I'm already helping them out most weekends, hic!

<snob> But you can buy it in Aldi and Wetherspoons</snob>

I'm vaguely interested in this, but aside form the niche points I'm not clear on whether this actually makes for a good investment or not. Would there be a dividend and then the potential increase in value should the company ever go public?

"They value the equity in the company at £119m, have only £15m in net assets, £30m in revenue, £2.5m in Net Income, and the shares are illiquid. Sounds like an expensive hobby!"

im no expert but the little i do know means im out....

i like the beer but not "that" much.... id rather just pay my 1.49 in aldi.

Or, rather than support a marketing company that dabbles in rather dull beer, find a good local brewery near you and buy some beer from them instead.

So get involved and help them out.

They aren't a charity. They are a couple of blokes trying to get rich by selling okay-ish beer (some of it's terrible mind) with fancy marketing.

I'd be a bit concerned about their rapid expansion and also the fact that they only pay the 'living wage'. I doubt whether that's to everyone in the firm. I seem to remember going into a Brewdog bar in Manchester, it was pricey, the beer wasn't brilliant and the place had a McDonald's feel to it and it was empty. Not somewhere that would attract investment funds from me.

the fact that they only pay the 'living wage'

Most bars I've worked in pay the minimum wage so I don't really see the problem

I'm vaguely interested in this, but aside form the niche points I'm not clear on whether this actually makes for a good investment or not. Would there be a dividend and then the potential increase in value should the company ever go public?

Or, rather than support a marketing company that dabbles in rather dull beer

is there anything less punk than selling shares?

zilog6128 - Member
I'm vaguely interested in this, but aside form the niche points I'm not clear on whether this actually makes for a good investment or not. Would there be a dividend and then the potential increase in value should the company ever go public?
I'm interested too as I really like the brewery but I'm guessing this fits somewhere between Kickstarter and "buying" a star!
Or, rather than support a marketing company that dabbles in rather dull beer
Let me guess - you really haven't tried many of their beers? Possibly only the ones you can buy from a supermarket?

Ooooh burn...

I've tried alot of them (got a sample box, one of each)

some of them were dull the rest were atrocious then they try and cover it in their marketing.

As the above the Bars are pretty rubbish too.

I remember going into a Brewdog bar in Manchester, it was pricey, the beer was great and the place had a 'on trend' feel to it, and it was full. Not somewhere that would attract investment funds from me.

some of them were dull the rest were atrocious then they try and cover it in their marketing.

Spot on.

It's not really a "share" or investment, more crowdfunding.
I like Brew dog's beer and have met lots of them and they are cool folk.
But I'm not just giving them my money. They're doing pretty well for themselves now.

I have enjoyed a lot of their beers and they sell out really quick when it makes it down here to tassie, can't get dead ponies for love nor money here.

Spot on.

I also like (most) of their regular beers, but can see why some folk might not.

Not quite sure where all the hate directed at their marketing has come from. Is it just the typical British thing of pouring scorn on anyone who's dared do well for themselves?

I think they've given the industry a massive shake up and should be commended for that.

I really like some of their beers and don't like some of their others. It's called personal taste, and don't really understand why the animosity in some of these posts. I'm struggling to think how 'boring' could be applied to them whether you like the beers or not.

I really can't abide parsnips, but that doesn't mean the greengrocer needs a flaming for selling them.

I guess some of the comments above have their roots in a 'I'm more niche than you' attitude.

more ammo for the haters...
I get the the nice man for ocado to deliver my punk IPA.

Supported them early on as it was a refreshing adventure. Not that it's not now - they have big plans, which will generate employment which is good - but I do wonder if this is the point at which the whole edifice wobbles somewhat, given the ambitious expansion?

I often find a lot of breweries produce utterly dire and dull beers, Brewdog brew to my tastes, although Vagabond, punk and DPC all taste pretty similar at the moment, however I do like that taste.

I popped into a Craft beer co on a Wild brewery takeover weekend recently and had one of the blandest pale ales I've ever drunk. I tried a great Yorkshire brewery "top of the hops" (previously Cropton brewery) which wasn't overly hoppy. I also recently had the misfortune to go to a Robinsons pub in the peaks, christ that was dull beer despite all it promised.

It was a genuine question about the investment element, so thanks for the replies.

I see it more as a couple of guys looking to grow the company without having to pay the bank lots of interest, they thought about their market of lets face it young to middle age guys with disposable income and got them to invest, it's smart but not a massively sensible investment from what I can see.

I find craft beer in most cases is the Emperors new clothes. For instance Brew Dog beer is poor quality when compared to say Cairngorm brewery.

Also what is Brew Dogs problem with bottle sizes, I don't want a bitter in 330ml that's just rubbish.

It's not really a "share" or investment, more crowdfunding.

No it is a share*, with some non financial investor benefits, which are quite common.

EDIT: * An expensive one too.

Buy when they're private, and have no means of disposing of the shares.

Then, shazam, they'll hit AIM with all sorts of promises and, unless you sell at the moment they float, the shares will be down to tuppence within a week.

Crowd funded private equity at £47.50 a share. That's some valuation there. I'd be expecting a committed exit date.

Good luck to them.

I think they did have some share matching service set up - I didn't know that, but they say it was in action. ..

I personally wouldn't bother.

The investment is shit.
The 'benefits'* are shit.
Their bars are overpriced pretentious shit.
Their attitude** is shit.

*If I'm stumping up my hard earned for "shares" that aren't guaranteed to make a decent return if any then the benefits had better be good. They're not, you can buy it all cheaper elsewhere unless you are shopping on one of their own bars.

**Often called out as sexist pricks, more than a few incidents that mean I would think twice before giving them money for nothing.

Just to put it perspective, the price paid for the share implies a valuation of the company of £300 million. Fullers is valued at slightly more than this, £326 million and has ten times the turnover and makes £34 million a year.

I find craft beer in most cases is the Emperors new clothes. For instance Brew Dog beer is poor quality when compared to say Cairngorm brewery.

You see I've not been massively impressed by Cairngorn Beers, I find them rather a bland. I wonder if personal preference has anything to do with it or if they're just not niche enough for some.

I like Punk IPA. However, I only ever buy it in the 660ml bottles.

It's a rip off in the 330ml bottles.

Their marketing gets on my nerves as well. They try too hard.

As for the 1 gallon all grain Punk home brew kit they sell for £40, that is blatant robbery!

You see I've not been massively impressed by Cairngorn Beers, I find them rather a bland.

I think the thing with someone like Cairngorm is they are more traditional style beers, rather than this new over hoppy style. Traditional beers can be complex tasting, but won't slap you around the face like some craft beers. Personally I grew up on Brains SA, Landlord, London Pride, Theakstons, Boddingtons (the old proper stuff), Flowers etc. I'm not saying they are all amazing but Cairngorm tends to resemble those and I like it way more than the newer American influenced Craft beers.

I don't care about niche, I just want a good drink.

Exactly my point Dragon. They're not bad beers just not exciting. Brewdog do a mixture I like them but still prefer some local ones for craft beers. I know that if I do go for Brewdog though that'll appeal to me.

Ive no interest in their beer or company.

If there was a rival startup making Nigerian Giunness style stuff... Yes please. It probably wouldnt make me much but that malty goodness 8)

@ hora - you should try Brewdog Libertine Black Ale, makes Guinness taste like the black watery pi55 it is, even those new Guinness craft band wagon export stouts.

My fave brewers at the mo are Burning Sky, One Mile End and Pressure Drop.

rewski, Nigerian Guinness is not Guinness. It's a very, very different drink! Lovely too.

There's no "hate" from me about Brewdog. I just find their beers dull and/or not to my taste, and their marketing annoying.

There are so many brilliant small brewers out there that I think are more interesting, tastier and less ****y.

Examples of "newer" breweries I currently like are;
Wiper and True
Bristol Beer Factory
Brew by Numbers
Kernel
Tiny Rebel

Don't think Thornbridge count, as they've been around a while, but I've yet to try anything of theirs which didn't make me very happy.

*Edit - Just seen your comment re Burning Sky. Check this.....
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@ Craft WC1, in That London. Tonight. 😀 *

+1 for kernel. Did a favour for a mate and asked him to pay me with it instead of money. Lovely.

It's all too Shoreditch hipster beard, deep v neck, scarf, eco warrior premium product bullshitterie for me, I'm most def totes owt.

Should rebrand as BRWD 😉 or 3DAWG and sell it to pumped and stoked bros, who smash it down the gym for double the price at organic farmers markets in London.

@CF - appreciate the tip off, saw it on Twitter a bit too late, nice selection, plateau and aurora are lovely. Brewdogs Bottledog shop is pretty good.

It's all too Shoreditch hipster beard

but aren't BD Scottish?

Yup, they are.

But like anything that was once niche and is now popular, BrewDog attract a lot of hate.

If you want to hate on a brewery I'd suggest Brewmeister. Cynical bunch trying very hard and doing nothing original in the process. [url= http://www.thehangingbat.com/index.php/2014/01/24/brewmeister-what-craft-most-definitely-is-not/ ]What Craft Beer Is Not.[/url]

Massive Lol at people sighting their personal taste as a reason for not investing.

Carling and Fosters on the other hand is utterly delicious.

also the fact that they only pay the 'living wage'. I doubt whether that's to everyone in the firm

Of all the things to pick on... 😯

Quite possibly it doesn't apply to everyone in the firm. All their staff in the UK though [url= http://www.digitalnewsroom.co.uk/brewdog/living-wage/ ]example link[/url]

(Signed, a shareholding wannabe Shoreditch hipster beard, deep v neck, scarf, eco warrior)

Totally agree

misguided hate, pick on Diageo or carling.

I dont care whether you are big or tiny. I like flavour.

Theres a brewery near Cragg Vale that has gorgeous stout yet Stella makes me want to drink cat piss instead as its so bland.

Caledonian (80shilling) is sublime yet they are big(?)

Brewdog is marketing first, bitter water next. So Im out.

Why is the taste of the beer entering any thoughts on whether to invest Hora?

Just interested

personal taste as a reason for not investing.

Nope. I don't think this is a good long term investment. Nothing to do with my taste buds.

Brewdog is great beer and great marketing. I've not got a problem with that.

Its not investing ..... Its thinly veiled give us yer money save us going to the banks.....

As i quoted earlier the maths does not add up. - its along way from being even close to an investment. 10 pints at the bar for your money would be a more worthy investment imo.

I like BrewDog's beers for the most part, but it's definitely not an investment in the usual sense of the word. You'll help the company grow, and get some freebies out of it, but you have no chance of making any money from it. As someone else pointed out, it's more akin to a kick started campaign, though you do get a real share and agm presence etc.

Nope. I don't think this is a good long term investment. Nothing to do with my taste buds.

With this sort of fund raising where you're 'investing' to see the company grow and make more delicious beer rather than aiming to see a return, not liking their beers would be a great reason not to invest.

With this sort of fund raising where you're 'investing' to see the company grow and make more delicious beer rather than aiming to see a return, not liking their beers would be a great reason not to invest.

Ah so it is giving rather than investing to people who already have made a fortune if their valuation is to be believed.

Caledonian (80shilling) is sublime yet they are big(?)

Drinkable I'd say but only if there's nothing else.

I was on holiday last week, in between the riding I went to 4 brewery pubs all with a selection along the lines of Brewdog, huge variety of beer from dark to light, malty to hoppy lots and lots of choice. Now that is a good thing. I still appreciate a good English pint when I'm home but there is a lot more flavour out there.

Brewdog have done a lot to put that on the map and move things along from the traditional CAMRA look.
Anyway £95 gets you 5% off in their bars
10% off buying their beer
and an invite to a gig/agm for free

If you drink there a bit or buy a lot of their beer not a bad discount card.

Yeah some of the beers are good, but the free keyring and pen style Sunday supplement investment is for brand fetishists who smoke the hype bone.

Ah so it is giving rather than investing to people who already have made a fortune if their valuation is to be believed.

Giving in return for something, no different from kickstarter etc. And no, I wouldn't believe the valuation based on the share price, but they're private shares with a fixed price, I'd not be working out the owners wealth value based on that.

£25 million is planned to be raised, three directors will own 70% of the company after the fund raising so their share of that £25 million will be £17.5 million.

EDIT: Being invited to an AGM is a legal requirement for all shareholders.

Being invited to an AGM is a legal requirement for all shareholders.

It should be.

Of all the things to pick on...

I went to a Brew Dog bar in Newcastle a little while back. It was full of tweed wearing trendies and I've never seen as many half drunk pints left behind. Coupled with the pricy ale it wasn't for me.

It does seem a little flavour of the month but I guess they'll evolve to stay trendy.

I wouldn't invest more than I could afford to lose. I put money in at EFP II - if the new issue is a fair reflection of value that's gone up ten-fold. I've had my value from discounts and a couple of AGMs.

It's not a kickstarter thing at all - you have real equity in the company, voting rights etc. The founders own the majority of the business still but they are raising equity to invest. Their beer is good to very good, inconsistency of a couple of years ago seems to have been ridden out. There are many better breweries now but BDog really kicked off "Craft". They didn't invent it - it's a US import - but popularised it and helped pave the way for everyone else. id concede the marketing is better than the beer but they wouldn't still be around and growing if the beer wasn't competitive.

"I just don't think much of firms that pay £7.65 an hour"

you obviously dont drink in many bars or shop in many super markets ?

It's all too Shoreditch hipster beard, deep v neck, scarf, eco warrior premium product bullshitterie for me,

I'm sure the hipsters hate brewdog as much as everyone else on here, you wont see it next to Wiper and True at the next brewery tap takeover in Shorditch that's fer sure.

At least they don't use the term "Artisan" on they marketing.

The whole craft beer movement in the UK owes Brewdog, they opened up the market for more flavoursome, interesting, odd beers. They have sold beers by other brewers and done collaborations for years, and they have made a shit load of money in the process, good luck to them.

While I think you'd be silly to see this as a serious investment propositions, I bought shares at £23 for 5p shares in 2011, this time they are selling 1p shares at £47. While I can't freely trade them, they did open it up to trading for a short window last year, I know people that sold them for a pretty healthy return.
Not that I've got any intention of selling them on, I always saw it as a chance to make a small contribution towards a business that has helped shake up the entire UK beer industry for the better, I'm not a particular fan of their own beers though, but I do get good discount on an interesting range of guest stuff in their bars and shops.

I've not been in one.
Their beer's quite nice though.

I do like quirky individual pubs and breweries.
But I also love finding unfamiliar Holts, Lees or Robbies pubs - they have a house style that can be comforting when cast into the outer darkness - Oldham say, or Macclesfield.

I'm basically coming at this from same place as tenacious doug. EFP II was supporting someone doing something different at the point it was either going to break through or flounder, and a company that if nothing else had passion for what it did and was trying to do things well.

I invested £300 which is now worth about £3k on the EFP IV valuation. EFP IV is a much more serious proposition, you're basically going in on growth prospects, but they are are a growing company in a growing market so the valuation isn't ridiculous. Again the risks are fairly obvious and you're not going to make an EFP I or EFP II "on paper" return and I don't see them doing the build/ sell to one of the big guys type of thing so no easy exit. it's not a hard nosed commercial proposition but if you think you're not going to lose long term and have the cash you can tie up for a number of years it's worth a punt IMO. I'll probably add about same again to my "investment".

At least they don't use the term "Artisan" on they marketing.

Ahem

If you invest £950 or over in Equity for Punks, you
will automatically receive a year’s membership to our
Abstrakt Addicts beer club. This means we will send
you three bottles of the next four releases of our most
artisanal, experimental beers.

As an EPF II investor, I'm pleased with e number you quoted above StuN !!

Twist or stick, twist or stick? 🙂

By all means buy the beer if it's your thing, but anyone considering investing in this is allowing the product and its marketing to influence their judgement. Purely as an investment it's hard to see any merit whatsoever, it's overpriced and illiquid.

If you actually buy and drink the stuff, go to their bars etc then the discounts are worth more than the price of a small investment alone. If you're looking at it as a Serious Investor and not a brewdog fan you've probably missed the point.

One of the two main guys (business guy, not brewing guy) is leaving the company shortly.

Wonder if this is a whip round for him?

I suppose if they were stock exchange listed that would be pertinent information -- I guess not, as they're not full listed. Still, it would be handy to know that!

One of the two main guys (business guy, not brewing guy) is leaving the company shortly.

Unless of course you are actually James Watt in disguise, in which case I bow to your superior sources. Though in that case, you'd probably know what your own name was.

People who work at the Brewdog brewery told me a couple of weeks ago.

Yourguitarhero - really?

Seems unlikely - if it's James Watt or Martin Dickie who were leaving I'd expect that to be a material fact for this offering so you'd would have to disclose it in the prospectus.

I am craving for Cornish Pilsner at the moment ... arrghhh ... It is my current favorite.

Cornish Pilsner is good.

I will try Brewdog next time.

artisanal

Is that an indicator of how far up it's own arse it's likely to be?