Proving your ID and...
 

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[Closed] Proving your ID and right to work in the UK

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I joined the Civil Service in 2003, when I provided ID docs etc.

I've provided them again on changing jobs/roles/agencies/attending interviews in 2005, 2012, 2014, 2019 (twice) and already once in 2020. I've now got a conditional offer for the job from earlier this year and they still need to check again as Covid delays mean it's more than 6 months since they last saw them.

As my passport has now expired I've sent them my birth certificate - issued by the High Commissioner to Kenya as I was born when my dad was on a posting out there, so I'm waiting to be told "computer says no".

This is the 5th time I've been checked by my current agency. How many times do you need to prove who you are to your current employer? 🤦‍♂️


 
Posted : 20/07/2020 10:14 am
 JAG
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It's a bit mad isn't it.

By now the UK should have all this information on a computer system somewhere. That system should be able to identify you by a unique reference No and tell them all they need to know about your right to work, NI contributions etc...


 
Posted : 20/07/2020 10:18 am
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You'd think, eh?


 
Posted : 20/07/2020 10:45 am
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It’s the same thing when applying for a tenancy. I still have records of when I first arrived in the country in 2011, just in case. Not having a National id makes everything more complex.


 
Posted : 20/07/2020 11:03 am
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If you have a uk passport you only need to check once per employer. The form you complete has a box to tick saying this.

How organisations save this info is another question.

And expired passport is fine, so long as a uk one.


 
Posted : 20/07/2020 11:07 am
 hels
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For one person this is sensible, a government administered database that allocates everybody a centralised unique references number and verifies identity. Perhaps they could also issue ID cards to save all this hassle?

To another this is the ultimate in state sponsored control of citizens and we might as well all have a barcode tattooed on our arm at birth.


 
Posted : 20/07/2020 11:16 am
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To another this is the ultimate in state sponsored control of citizens and we might as well all have a barcode tattooed on our arm at birth.

I actually agree with this statement, but in reality we already have it. Especially when you think of all the databases in which we participate.


 
Posted : 20/07/2020 11:27 am
 DrJ
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I actually agree with this statement, but in reality we already have it. Especially when you think of all the databases in which we participate.

Our protection (for the moment) is the appalling incompetence that prevents anyone from cross-referencing those datasets.


 
Posted : 20/07/2020 11:33 am
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Particularly as everyone already has a unique identifier in their National Insurance number (don't they?) and you have to give that whenever you start a new job.


 
Posted : 20/07/2020 11:34 am
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Similar but different:

Do you have a Maths GCSE C grade or better?

Yes

Can I see the certificate?

No, I've no idea where it is, but you can check my master's degree in engineering, it's in this folder with the rest of the documents.

Sorry, that doesn't count......

Particularly as everyone already has a unique identifier in their National Insurance number (don’t they?) and you have to give that whenever you start a new job.

I think that's generally a bit more one way. It's your national insurance account number so you can use it to pay your N.I. a bit like your bank account number, I could use your account number to pay you some money, but it doesn't make me you.

You occasionally hear of people without the right to work fraudulently getting past it by using someone else NI number. So it's a unique identifier, but the system behind it perhaps isn't up to much.

Does seem daft that if you go into hospital you need your NHS number (which no one knows), and it's not linked to your driving licence, N.I number, government gateway account, student loan account, fishing rod licence number, expired Swinley permits or any other government-issued piece of paper.


 
Posted : 20/07/2020 12:10 pm
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For one person this is sensible

The problem to my mind is that I do not trust our incumbent government to a) hold this data securely or b) use this data responsibly. Flip a coin to guess whether Cozy Bear manages to hack it before Putin just buys it off Cummings.


 
Posted : 20/07/2020 12:18 pm
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Why are landlords and employers having to repeatedly check that they are allowed to either take your money or pay you for your work? Start there, rather than wishing for a different flawed central IT system, rather than our existing flawed central IT systems, to support all those, in my opinion, entirely unnecessary checks designed to make people feel unwelcome here (or perhaps more fairly, to signal to other people that those people are being made to feel unwelcome).


 
Posted : 20/07/2020 12:26 pm
 hels
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Hostile environment policy innit.


 
Posted : 20/07/2020 12:35 pm
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And expired passport is fine, so long as a uk one.

Expired passport is apparently not acceptable.

Neither were the other documents I sent through this morning. So rather than getting me a new role and pay rise, I may have set in train my dismissal and deportation....🤔


 
Posted : 20/07/2020 12:55 pm
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My birth cetificate is handwritten in Cantonese. What companies do I need to be avoiding?


 
Posted : 20/07/2020 2:05 pm
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The problem to my mind is that I do not trust our incumbent government to a) hold this data securely or b) use this data responsibly. Flip a coin to guess whether Cozy Bear manages to hack it before Putin just buys it off Cummings.

If you use any social media or gmail. Your data is already available to the market. Are you registered to vote? Have you been to conferences? I used to be very paranoid about privacy but now have somewhat given up, I assume big corp and gov will always have my info.

Sure privacy laws give us a some protection. However when it comes to actual rulings, government always wins.


 
Posted : 20/07/2020 2:24 pm
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@baboonz +1

The amount of waste associated with verifying identity in government is eye watering.
gov verify is a car crash, but ID assurance beyond NINO would be hugely beneficial.


 
Posted : 20/07/2020 2:57 pm
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It’s not the same data though, is it.


 
Posted : 20/07/2020 2:59 pm
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My birth cetificate is handwritten in Cantonese. What companies do I need to be avoiding?

Wetherspoons.

Though to be honest that's sound advice generally regardless of birth certificates.


 
Posted : 20/07/2020 3:16 pm
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I was also born abroad so I always make sure my passport is up to date for exactly this reason. I expect the home office to reimburse me for this extra cost, but I will accept Priti Patel clapping for me outside for 1 minute every week. The passport doesn’t seem to be much use for anything else going forwards.


 
Posted : 20/07/2020 3:24 pm
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Oh yeah, another top tip if applying for a job in the civil service - if you do happen to have your O level certificates, be prepared to have to explain to the HR drone that an O level is like a GCSE, but for really old people 😄😂


 
Posted : 20/07/2020 3:44 pm

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