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I was child agnostic. Now have two. Started late ish.
Don't, don't do something because you are scared. Just deal with the now. It is hard work but also fun. Worry not about how old you will be when you are 70 worry only about today as that is what you can deal with.
Remember you will regret what ever decision you make. You have the opportunity to start an adventure but not to do that adventure because of fear is not a good reason.
If you marry, you will regret it; if you do not marry, you will also regret it; if you marry or if you do not marry, you will regret both; whether you marry or you do not marry, you will regret both. Laugh at the world’s follies, you will regret it; weep over them, you will also regret it; if you laugh at the world’s follies or if you weep over them, you will regret both; whether you laugh at the world’s follies or you weep over them, you will regret both. Believe a girl, you will regret it; if you do not believe her, you will also regret it; if you believe a girl or you do not believe her, you will regret both; whether you believe a girl or you do not believe her, you will regret both. If you hang yourself, you will regret it; if you do not hang yourself, you will regret it; if you hang yourself or you do not hang yourself, you will regret both; whether you hang yourself or you do not hang yourself, you will regret both. This, gentlemen, is the sum of all practical wisdom.
Kierkegaard
I’m a father of 2 lads (20 & 17) and I can say, as much as it pains me to do so, it has not been a positive experience for me overall.
My main error was having them with the wrong person.
I’m now with the person I should have been with back then, but now I’m too old in late 40s so I’ve had the snip.
People often over-romanticise parenthood; it’s classic Cognitive Dissonance. The world is vastly over-populated too, so there’s no need to breed really.
The cost of having a kid at Uni etc when I’m in my 70s terrifies me; I’m worried about how I’ll fare then as it is.
Apologies for my slightly depressing take on things, but that’s how it is for me.
I became a dad to twins at 42. I’ll be 55 this year just after they hit 13. They are wonderful and I’d not change a thing. How old I am when they are 25 doesn’t matter - in fact it will probably mean they get a decent inheritance at an age where it will be useful for them.
Kryton – I have a couple of things i would like to say to you ( apologies and pleading for understanding) but I cannot PM you and don’t want it to take over another thread
You don’t need to apologise or plead to me TJ. Because of the history I’m trying very hard to respond to you sensibly on threads. I don’t have a good family history, and my opportunities with my two kids are hugely emotionally valuable to me, so blunt talk of “termination” feels very sensitive and whether you or someone else had posted it, I’d have said the same. I appreciate the op finds themselves in a tricky position, but we are ultimately talking about a child’s life here, not a bike part you can put back on the shelf.
Maybe that sensitivity is about my issues not yours/others, and I’m happy to accept that.
41, no kids here. Never been completely against it, but never been sure so haven’t.
I’ll likely get in trouble with this comment, but I always find the comparison between “shall we have kids” threads and “shall we get a dog” threads fascinating.
On the latter the general sentiment is that you have to have everything in place before you say yes with lots of people saying how much of a commitment it is and saying to be sure. You should default to no unless you’re 100%.
On the former, a bigger, longer, more life changing commitment, the default is yes and I’m sure all will work out.
I personally find this odd.
I’d suggest the OP needs to have a frank and honest discussion with his other half about his concerns. They should both be 100% on board, if they’re not it’ll cause issues down the line.
Kryton - OK. I have noticed your change of approach and appreciate it and will try to reciprocate. Thanks
I do still have a couple of things I would like to say to you but this thread is not the right place
Read the OP last night but mulled the topic over a bit before spouting.
We had our first when I was 30 (missus is a bit older), it wasn't planned, but wasn't actively avoided if that makes sense. The thing is we were both set on keeping it from day one. Not that we didn't have the same concerns as you, we were renting, generally enjoying our own "extended childhood" with some disposable income, free time and few relative responsibilities.
So the same concerns were there, and an appreciation of the responsibility that being a parent is, which I think you seem to have. That alone is a decent starting point whatever you decide between you. But don't get too caught up in the logistics and financial implications, not every family is well off and financial security alone does not make functional family or a happy life. I wouldn't change my life today for anything, but that's me and I think you've had enough cheerleaders for kids and family life already...
I have friends who knew they did not want to spawn and most of them seem happy, just aware that their decision will forever be questioned by everyone they meet for the next 30 years and that they'll inevitably lose a few friends to the parenting cliques...
The current realty for you and your GF is stark OP, this will change your lives whatever happens:
You will either become parents and manage to face that together, become parents and find the changes test your relationship beyond breaking point (this is a distinct possibility), or decide on a termination and that choice will also play a part in your relationship going forwards as it will always be something that happened and which the pair of you will need to deal with. Either way you are in for some irrecoverable change. So long as you are both open and honest about what you both want and what is worrying you, that's the best you can do...
It's no good any of us telling you we loved or hated being parents, we're not you. all I can say is it is something that you can do, plenty of people have managed before it's not an unassailable task whatever resources and capacity you have, your concerns are pretty much universal and I would worry more if half them didn't occur to you.
Ultimately you only get to find out if the choice you make today was the 'right' one in about twenty years or so, and the answer will probably just be a general sense of well-being or some distant regret at how things panned out, its not a binary thing unfortunately.
I'm not really in any similar situation as we had planned kids at an earlier age (I'm now 37 with 4 young boys) however for my 2p's worth of advice I'll add that one thing to be careful of is your relationship with your partner, especially around the time of the birth.
Be strong and be there for each other! Things will be tough at times and you particularly need to understand that her hormones will be going completely haywire, which can lead to strained relationships at a time that's already stressful enough. If she snaps at you or says something hurtful, understand that it's not really meant or what she truly believes. Let it wash over you and if needed, discuss at a later time when things are settled.
It's a 2 way thing of course, but will be harder for her to bear in mind at this time, especially if she gets the baby blues as well.
Oh and about the termination, bear in mind that this may be your last chance as if you regret the decision, when trying again you'll be even older and will have all the same doubts as now, but stronger! Termination is irreversible however if you do have the kid you still have the option to terminate at any point in the future 😉
What an honest post. Respect.
I can understand where you are. I was always child-agnostic, partner actively against it. However, once she became pregnant (she 39, me 49), she was adamant against a termination. We now have a 5 year running around. When he's 20, I'll be 70, so I empathise with you!
My sister is 3 only years older than me, but her youngest is nearly 27, so I can see pros and cons to having children at different times in life. Yes, the overlap when we can do sporty things as equals will probably be when he's about 10, but I think I'm a much better father than I would have been 15, 20 years ago. I'm much more reflective and aware of how my behaviour effects the family dynamic.
My advice would be not to overthink it, though I appreciate that's easier to advise than to achieve. People have been bringing up kids for millennia, and - spoiler alert - [b]nobody knows what they're doing[/b]. Everybody is just making it up as they go along. Try to relax into it and be as empathetic as you can. There's often a reason when they're being a complete terror. It's amazing how much you see your behaviour reflected back at you.
And remember, they're gonna turn out ok.
All kids are different, but FWIW ours is more effected by fresh air and diet than anything else. Outdoor time (in any weather) has a real positive effect on his behaviour. Processed food does seem to have the opposite effect. But it's all about balance. It's not fair to be mega strict on everything, and the occasional bit of what's bad for them is probably good for them (a good motto for life, that).
His mum got her pre-baby figure back within 6 months (without breast feeding), whereas I've put on 10 kilos, so there's no telling how it will affect you both.
Overall I'd say the important thing is to relax. Yes, there will be hard times. Yes there'll be times when you're washing shit off every surface. And I know he'll think I'm a massively embarrassing dickhead within the next 10 years. But all the negatives are outweighed by the fun he brings. It's life affirming to see the world with a 5 year old's sense of wonder and excitement, and the pleasure of sharing laughs is off-the-scale.
I've not articulated this very well. Feel free to PM me if you're having a wobble and want to talk through any part of being an older dad (though you're a whippersnapper from where I'm standing)!
Good luck, and enjoy it.
We had our boy when i was 35, and i can't deny that age died make me fear a little for the future.
My experience is coloured by losing my dad when i was 26 (he was 41 when i was born).
That being said i wouldn't change it for the world, 42 now though and not sure i would have another simply because i wouldn't want to put my wife through the damage child birth and pregnancy does.
Ask that being said it is normal to be utterly terrified of it, your world does change beyond anything you can imagine, if that is for you or not i cannot answer but vid luck either way.
Also fwiw i think tj's input was valuable in this
41 here with a 2 year old and 2 step daughters (7 and 9) who live with us most of the time. I was always pretty anti having children but I came out of a long term relationship, met someone new after a few years and it just happened and it's been wonderful in many ways, but...
I'll be honest it's bloody hard work a lot of the time. As someone who has struggled with long-term chronic depression/CFS and has sleep issues anyway, I am really permanently knackered now, and find it even harder to keep on top of life stuff eg cleaning, cooking, paying bills, let alone finding time for hobbies, running a business, having a social life etc.
Sometimes feels like you are literally just running around stopping them breaking stuff/fighting each other, picking up the mess they make, cooking/cleaning/doing the dishwasher, and yet your house is still a tip! Then beyond that you obviously want to try and do constructive stuff with them and not just plonk them in front of screens but often that's the only way to buy a bit of sanity.
I don't mean to sound overly negative as there is a lot of joy in our lives which wouldn't be there without the kids but I often feel like I'm not really up to the job. Hopefully it gets easier when the boy is at nursery and Covid issues settle down with family childcare etc
For the OP, both approaches are fine and valid. I would emphasise a few points already made
It will put a lot of pressure on your relationship so this is a decision that has to be made together
If you decide to go for it then no-one knows what they are doing, they are making it up as they go along with a bit of info from the side but it really is your journey
It really helps to have a good support network around you to relieve a little of the pressure as it is relentless, but it isn't essential
As TJ and others have said, once the baby arrives a drive will kick in that you don't expect and will give you an ability and desire to cope that you can't imagine.
Good luck whichever way you decide to go. There is no easy decision either way but as long as you are deciding together you will cope both ways
Like a couple of posters, I've never wanted to have kids, though I enjoy hanging out with my nieces, nephews and friends' kids. Main reason being that the planet has enough humans running around ruining it so why add mine to the mix. But also because I really enjoy having the time and money to do pretty much what I want, whenever I want.
Also, I don't want the responsibility nor the drudgery, tedium or worry. I think a lot of Dads say that they weren't sure but it was the best thing that happened to them. Unless they're full-time Stay-At-Home-Dads, that might be because the miss out on most of the meal times (which are total zoos in my experience), the tidying up, the calls from nursery or schools to collect a sickly kid, and so on. Instead they come home from work for bedtime and have the fun time at the weekends. I suspect a full-time mum might have a more nuanced point of view.
Firstly good luck to you both, whatever you choose, and I agree with the points about this being a brave and honest post. I agree with much of the comments above (from both sides), but a couple of things that I can't see above:
Older parents bring something different to being a parent - yes they are more tired, less physically active (maybe), but they are also wiser, more sensible, less prone to stupidity and fits of temper etc. All children and all parents are different, and all are doing the best they know how.
One thing stood out to me in the original post was the line ‘Last night my GF confided in me that she was considering a termination.’
The typical bloke type answer, especially when unsure, is ‘oh’ and then we go off into a spin internally without sharing or supporting.
Not saying this is you Mr Deer but, the fact your good lady has said it clearly means it is high in her thoughts, which means it has to be discussed between you without prejudice.
There is no right and wrong answer, only what is right for you.
This is absolutely right, but also ber in mind that a termination will be something that is with you and your partner forever. I know people who have been through that and still regret it decades later. Be absolutely sure this is what you both want.
All the best
My little girl (now three) came along when I was 39, but was planned after lots of discussion. We were both ready (or as ready as you can be!) and I have precisely zero regrets. She's changed my life beyond all recognition, covid has made things different than they would have been (maybe more difficult, maybe not) but she's completely worth it. We also got really lucky when she was about six months old - I gambled on a voluntary redundancy, got a decent payout which ended up being a chunk of deposit for a sizeable house upgrade then found a much better job.
So for me, although it's been incredibly hard at times, I wouldn't change a thing.
On the flip side, it is fine not to want or have kids (and I'm throwing my support behind TJ here as his feelings are just as valid as those of anyone else here). Your life WILL change, and taken in isolation not all of it will be positive. I rarely find time for 'proper' mtb rides any more (it's a drive to decent trails, which makes a considerable time investment) but I've started running and bouldering a lot more (which fits in better).
My advice would be to consider your relationship with your partner. Sounds pretty good from your initial post, but having a child will put you both under a lot of stress. Communication is key. Think about whether you're happy to give up things like popping to the pub on a whim, or regular days out riding in exchange for cleaning up shit and not sleeping.
If you do go ahead, then consider learning about how you can be a positive part of the birth and not just a spare part. Hypnobirthing (despite the name - I was VERY cynical) was brilliant for us and I would recommend it. Also consider something like NCT (that may be a UK thing) not just for what you'll learn (which was useful) but for the support network your partner may built through it.
And whatever you decide, stick with it. Asking yourself 'what if' will mess you up. Accept the decision you have made, and make the best of it!
If I were the op I would be terminating.
Always liked the idea of having kids when I was in my early 20's.
As I got older I realised I'm quite selfish with my time and appreciate doing what I want. Friends had kids and then I saw the reality of their world being turned on its head. Suddenly matey went from top rung of his ladder to the very bottom. That's not really changed much in the last 14 years.
I could not imagine being tied down for the next (minimum) 18 years. Even less so given the fact I don't want to physically be where we are right now.
Other friends of ours have recently had a kid. She's not dealing with it brilliantly. He's been round several times just to get some free head space. Not being funny, but the kid is so bloody boring. Does nothing. Just sits or stands there. Have told them I'm not meeting at the kiddy park anymore as it's so mind numbingly dull.
Another friend came round last week. Not seen her nor her little un for over a year. Blow me the kids is a demanding little sprog with an over inflated ego. Had twitchy hand syndrome a couple of times.
The GF was never broody and fortunately as she had got older she's gone off the idea completely.
All the GF's mates have kids and are now trapped in a cycle of ferrying the kids to school, rushing to work, worrying about whether the kids are dyslexic/autistic/allergic etc. Even she says she can't remember the last time they had a normal conversation together that didn't involve kids.
I don't think there's any right answers - life is the stuff that happens while you're making other plans.
Have kids or don't but attempting to denigrate the choice you didn't make isn't healthy IMO.
You could call parenting tedious drudgery or whatever but you could also argue childless parents are shallow, narcissistic, and unable to commit to anything. Probably best not to go down that route though eh.
I suspect a full-time mum might have a more nuanced point of view.
There's probably some truth to this. I'm not a full time stay at home dad but my business is taking a backseat at the moment so it's mostly me taking the boy to playgroups etc.
I've literally not seen another male parent at any of them, I was quite surprised.
I'm going to add another voice to the childfree-by-choice posters here; not to say do or don't do it, but to say that whichever decision you make will be the right one for you.
Of all the posters saying they were unsure but now that it's happened it's great - how many of you had partners who were the ones who were sure they wanted kids? I'd wager it's a very different scenario if you're both unsure. I was ambivalent about having children, but my OH is 100% (and always has been) about not wanting to be a parent, and the longer we've been together the more strongly I've leaned towards her feelings.
Given that what's at stake, I'd far rather regret not having children than regret having them. Whatever you both decide, make sure you support each other. Don't feel pressured into making a choice that you're not happy with just because it's what you think you should do, or to please other people.
You mention your fears about careers. But it's statistically the mother's career that really takes the hit - first with a year out of the workplace, then second, if she goes back to work full time, she's very often the one that'll be expected to leave work mid-afternoon if junior gets sick at school or etc etc. Would your partner feel differently if she wasn't expecting to be the one who handles all that?
Anyway. I am not a parent, though not by choice. MrsDoris is older than me, so by 38 I had accepted that it wasn't going to happen. It was hard to take for the first couple of years - I was resentful of my friends and colleagues were becoming parents, guilty that my mum would never be a grandmother, fearful of a lonely old age, strangely sad (in a vain way) that my family name will die out with me - it's a slightly odd surname, now unique to my family.
MrsDoris was always more child-ambivalent than me and is, in a lot of ways, quite glad it didn't end up happening (although if we could have skipped all the shit in between that would have been better!).
But it's rare now that I feel upset about the absence of kids in my life. We have a standard of living, on our average salaries, that would be completely out of reach if we had kids. We have time to pursue our artistic hobbies. The doubts about whether we would be good parents never came to anything. I certainly don't envy my friends with teenagers. I have a good life. I'm happy with my lot.
But don't worry about money, though. You'll find a way.
I do think the key thing here is to talk it all through and make a positive decision that you are both happy with if at all possible.
Now imagine its twins, this was me aged 44....
I am now 55 and the boys are sport mad 11 year olds and its bloody excellent fun. Boy its hard work, I fall asleep in the dentist chair, I fall asleep anytime i sit down :-)))
One is High functioning ASD, ADHD/ODD, mild Tourettes, etc etc and life is never dull tbh, sometimes its tough and sometime a laugh a minute
The other is a rugby and cycling god (in my eyes), he has his own challenges, mainly in living with his bonkers brother.
I always could see me with kids but it didnt happen like most of my friends, in the end I met a girl a lot younger than me, and bob's your uncle twin came along, btw am I oldest of my mates and dads at school pickup, nope not by a long way?
Go for it, if it doesnt kill you it will keep you skint a young 🙂
Ferris
TJ although I think you have a right to an opinion, you have no experience and the words you used and the inference of them are abhorrent to a parent – they lack sensitivity.
Perhaps worth taking into consideration that the boot is usually on the other foot. I've been told "you don't want children? What's wrong with you, it's different when they're your own..." for thirty years. This is the "preachy vegan" argument all over again, truth is that it's the carnivores doing all the bleating.
For all that a few are criticising into TJ for being blunt, he's made the best post so far here:
I do think the key thing here is to talk it all through and make a positive decision that you are both happy with if at all possible.
Have the kid, be happy. Don't have the kid, be happy. But, be happy and to hell with what anyone else thinks.
“you don’t want children? What’s wrong with you, it’s different when they’re your own…” for thirty years.
I did used to get this and it was pretty annoying - I think anyone trying to claim there is one right answer is daft.
I've had the opposite recently though: 'oh you're having a kid don't you worry about the world you're bringing them into?' 🙄
There absolutely is a special joy in playing with your kid or seeing them learn which is isn't really replicated anywhere else in life but getting some sleep and doing whatever you want most of the time is pretty sweet also.
I have friends who knew they did not want to spawn and most of them seem happy, just aware that their decision will forever be questioned by everyone they meet for the next 30 years and that they’ll inevitably lose a few friends to the parenting cliques…
Anyone who questions someone's choices (sometimes it's not a choice) over this matter, or who makes a judgement over not having kids can, quite frankly, get in the bin.
I don't care if you've 0-10 kids, dogs, giraffes, or cats. Just be interesting and decent.
I've found, as a childless dad, if that makes sense, many folk can get tedious in their middle age. Please don't get all judgy and join those chinless wonders, folks.
I’ve not read the thread, but wanted to pitch in with my own experience.
I was a dad at 28 and enjoyed every moment. Great relationship with my daughter, not so much with her mum so ended things when I was 46, probably about 5 years later than I should have but stayed in the relationship due to my own misguided fear of the affect it may have in my daughter and it’s relationship.
Realised I wanted to be with someone and started dating. Soon realised that I missed being a dad, so when I met a widow with two amazing young kids I was so happy, got married and am now coming to what is hopefully the end of the adoption process.
Age difference between me and the kids will be pretty similar to yours. It’s never really crossed my mind, but I like to think of myself as a youngish 54, and I’d like to think that I’m doing a pretty ****ing decent job as a dad 2nd time around.
What can I say, it works for us, love spending time as a family, or with any of kids in their own. Whilst I see parallels between the eldest & middle daughter, they are each all very different.
You’ll never be ready, it’s never the right time, but we all find a way.
And it’s wonderful. I wouldn’t change a thing. Maybe I’m lucky. Maybe we make or own luck.
I’m not sue that any of this helps, but wanted you to know it can work. Very well it would seem!!
I’ve found, as a childless dad, if that makes sense, many folk can get tedious in their middle age.
TBF that happens to many folk whether they have children or not. 😂
I’ve found, as a childless dad, if that makes sense, many folk can get tedious in their middle age.
Even coke and hookers gets boring after a while. Apparently.
There absolutely is a special joy in playing with your kid or seeing them learn which is isn’t really replicated anywhere else in life
I dunno, I've taught one of the cats to play Fetch.
TBF that happens to many folk whether they have children or not. 😂
Yes, that is true! But its appreciated if they don't add being a judgy parent to their list of faults! 🤣
Even coke and hookers gets boring after a while. Apparently.
who told you that?! 🤣
Firstly the basics- Congratulations! Its the best thing ever & you are not be too old.
Cold feet are natural, worry is natural (get used to it!) You've been thinking about it for years and trying for a while. You made the decision to have a child then now you should follow through on that decision and be positive about the child with your other half.
who told you that?!
Binners
I dunno, I’ve taught one of the cats to play Fetch.
Your cat thinks it's cute that you think you've taught it anything.
I dunno, I’ve taught one of the cats to play Fetch.
Respect. I taught mine to jump through a hoop. Fetch was beyond it.
You are living through my absolute worst nightmare. I was there 20 years ago. Fortunately she got herself booked into marie stopes to get it resolved.
No longer together but neither she nor I have kids these days with current partners and I'm more than happy with that.
Looking forward to winding down work soon. The though of having to provide for others for the next 20 years is an absolutely terrifying prospect.
I get the feeling this thread has gone away from advice and insight into peoples personal justification for their own life choices!
From a money point of view you don't need to buy half of what you think you need, eBay is full of barely used baby clothes and accessories, IKEA do all sorts of baby/child stuff including changing tables etc which are not that expensive. Friends when you tell them will most likely give you all their stuff as well!!
The best thing I bought was a Tummy Tub essential a bucket to wash them in but it was so much easier than a bath as you can use it in any room and calming for the baby as it puts them in the fetal position.
Have you both thought about joining a NCT class? Good way to meet others who most likely will have or had the same thoughts and you may make some new long-term friends (our daughter is 8 but we are still in regular contact with people from the NCT group).
Kids.i only have the one.
I was so excited at 1st, the new came...and I was terrified me a dcthe wire didn't really have a clue....but wise words from a departed mate was....it doesn't matter how you get though as long as you struggle....which snapped me out of it....
The baby years are boring ....I was struggling to stay awake at work, then as soon as they start eating, you get some sleep back....from about 18months the fun starts...till the early teen years....mine was a proper nightmare literally from start of 13...lasted 6 months....slowly he became normal ish again....now he is 15 and honesty he is my best mate...every thing he does makes me proud...except nicking my clothes ha ha ha...
So being worried is perfectly normal...we've all been there...and eventually you'll be here where I am right now looking back with a smile on your face...Happy that you took this adventure on and survived...all the best mate
.
Remember there is no “right” way to rear a child, just that which works for your family.
There’s no one right way. There are plenty of good enough ways which is what I think you’re saying and I agree with that.
People are amazing. And I forgot to congratulate the OP and Baby Mother on such exciting news: congratulations! You are in for the journey of a lifetime.
What a sad post, reading that you are worrying about being able to afford this and that , and you won’t be able to do one thing and another, and the most sad 5hing is that your other half is contemplating a termination of a child that you planned to have .
The life you have created between you will trump every worry, misgiving or nice house you could ever dream of.
In my experience of 2 children , they are a complete joy, you will nurture them , teach them , watch them grow.
If you do go through with the birth, you will look back at your post and see how sad it really was .you both have immense joy coming into your lives , enjoy it
Just to add , I don’t mean you are sad as people , the post made me sad reading it
I guess I'd count as an older father tho' a couple years younger than you with number 2. It is normal to think you're unprepared for the change because you are, but that's OK as most everyone is. Also, yes it's a hit on time and money, but on the upside kids are better than a new gravel bike and money is an abstract concept anyway.
I would say that what you're feeling is normal and fine and for most people it works out well in the end.
@prettygreenparrot Trying to avoid feline skin removal analogies as it's probably going to make someone twitch and I would prefer not to do that.
. But it’s statistically the mother’s career that really takes the hit – first with a year out of the workplace, then second, if she goes back to work full time, she’s very often the one that’ll be expected to leave work mid-afternoon if junior gets sick at school or etc etc.
You can decide between you who is the one sacrificing a career, or you can outsource a lot of your childcare and try and both do it. MrsMC took the hit when they were young by going part time, but still earns more than me so for the last 5-6 years I've been the part timer.
Traditionally its been the mum, it doesn't have to be.
But it’s statistically the mother’s career that really takes the hit – first with a year out of the workplace, then second, if she goes back to work full time, she’s very often the one that’ll be expected to leave work mid-afternoon if junior gets sick at school or etc etc.
Probably best not to take statistics outside of context.
Because also a statistic is that statistically mum earns less
Currently in our house I am the one that does the on call pick up and the kids sick childcare because my job allows and my wife's job is considerably more stable than mine.
So just because that's what's happened in the past doesn't mean you have to choose to follow the past.
And while we didn't..... You can even share paternity leave now......
I have friends where mums a lawyer and went back almost asap. Dad is a stay at home dad.
Ok nothing changes the fact mum has to carry the baby but it's not cast in stone that mum has to be the main carer forby that.
From the opposite end of the spectrum, I left uni 1988 with £4.5k debt, no job and a pregnant girlfriend and I still can't decide if having kids when you are younger, older, wealthier or poorer is best?
I'll add my bit, as a father of two:
Firstly, the following 100%:
Good luck whichever way you decide to go. There is no easy decision either way but as long as you are deciding together you will cope both ways
Financially you might not be able to afford the holiday you want in Bali, or that new carbon bike, but you'll survive. I've never argued as much with my wife as we did during the first couple of months of my first daughter, but we got through it. Unless you're very unlucky we all manage the financial and emotional stress of parenthood, assuming as the quote above states that you're in it together. Communication is, always, key.
I also wouldn't worry too much about the age thing, I'm "only" 50 and my youngest is turning 18 next month, but my fitness and ability to run around has exactly nothing to do with our relationship. Someone above also pointed out you won't just turn 60 and have a 15 year old knocking on your door, you'll have had 15 years together to get to know each other. This is very true.
So although it pains me to say it, I'd seriously consider what TJ has posted 🙂 Forget the practical stuff, we all muddle through, so just think about the important bit: do you want to be a parent? For me it fell under the "yeah most people like their kids so why not?" as an argument, and when they turned up I just got on with it. Is it life changing? Well, duh, yes. But only you can decide if it's likely to be for the better. Personally I'm very glad I did it, and I'm very proud to see how my daughters have turned out, but equally I can imagine not having kids, and being a happy childless (and a lot richer!) person right now.
Haven’t read all replies, but here’s my experience.
I was 44 when jr was born, wife was 42. Was a bit of a shock, and the pregnancy was full of ups and downs, with unexplained bleeding and memories of previous miscarriage causing a lot of worries. In the end it was all fine and he’s turning three next month.
Like you, we never felt anything was missing before, but life has been amazing since. It’s not easy or cheap but definitely worthwhile. Wife went back to work after 9 months and has never had any issues relating to being a mum. Lots of other mums at work and all understand if any adjustment needed.
I understand the overwhelmingly nature of it. For us there was no doubt but maybe it isn’t the right choice for the two of you. Don’t rush into anything, take time to get over the initial shock and make the right choice for you. Either way, life won’t be the same again.
Talk to your partner and talk so more. Good luck.
I think a lot of Dads say that they weren’t sure but it was the best thing that happened to them.
Some of them are lying and will say something entirely different when they won't be judged for it. I've got friends who think their lives would have been better with less/no kids but they'll never say that in front of other parents.
I'd always assumed I'd have kids as that was the normal thing to do but I've never actually wanted one. I don't mind my friends kids but as my wife isn't bothered either we've decided not to as we like our lives as they are and a dog is enough. If she was to get accidentally pregnant though I'm honestly not sure what we'd do. I'd support her choice whilst hoping she'd decide on a termination, but would want her to make the decision.
I’ve got friends who think their lives would have been better with less/no kids but they’ll never say that in front of other parents.
We've got three and TBH it's probably 1-2 too more than we can ideally cope with. Place is a madhouse a lot of the time. I wouldn't especially recommend having more than 2 kids personally.
Doesn't mean we value any of them any less or are wishing them away, just being realistic.
I’d support her choice whilst hoping she’d decide on a termination, but would want her to make the decision.
See this I find hard to understand (both parts). It's a controversial issue and I'm not out to judge anyone but for me just not particularly fancying it isn't really a good reason to have a termination. YMMV obviously.
Got to say that I'm finding the two stage decision making process a bit tricky to get my head around...
Termination or not must be the womans decision only as its her body. She may want to know the mans view or she may not.
Its reasonable in my mind to hope she decides in one direction but as a man who impregnated her you have to live with the decision she makes
It’s a controversial issue and I’m not out to judge anyone but for me just not particularly fancying it isn’t really a good reason to have a termination.
Again, no judgement - but I tend to see this from the other side. Is it really responsible to go through with a pregnancy if you're not completely committed to the idea?
Not meaning to be the thread police but I think we are getting off track here. It's an emotive subject and I can see this going badly so I'd like to withdraw my comment (too late to edit). You do you!
See this I find hard to understand (both parts). It’s a controversial issue and I’m not out to judge anyone but for me just not particularly fancying it isn’t really a good reason to have a termination. YMMV obviously.
Being at best ambivalent at being responsible for a child isn't a good reason to have one. A termination would be unpleasant but better than raising an unwanted child, or going through with the pregnancy and giving it up for adoption. It would have to be her decision because I doubt a marriage would survive a woman being persuaded to give up a child she wanted.
Yes - sorry, I didn't mean my comment to come off too callously. It's a difficult subject, and there aren't clear cut answers.
Thanks again all. Some really useful insights and debates here. I haven't had time to read through all this, but I will later today.
Reading through the first two pages of comments yesterday, opened my eyes to some of the more profound positives that could come. So I feel more-or-less 50/50 about where we are at.
I thought maybe it would be useful if I share this thread with my GF. Interestingly, the comments she read just seemed to confirm her worst fears, that the lack of money, lack of time, lack of sleep, will become everything in our life. That 'you will somehow cope / adapt' etc, is just not good enough for what she wants out of life. (And perhaps it isn't enough for me either?). She is concerned with actually 'thriving' as a person in life rather than just 'coping'. She's beginning to freak out about the initial subtle bodily changes already taking place - just a few weeks in. Today she seems almost completely convinced that a termination is the right way out of this. It's strange, because she was really the one instigating all this in the first place (albeit perhaps without thinking things through fully).
I will totally respect whichever decision she makes and will stand by her with it.
One of the comments I read yesterday really stood out to me. Someone said 'you are both overthinking this'. It seems that there really are few rational reasons to have a child, and there are a million very, very rational reasons to not have one. So perhaps we are overthinking this? But does any one ever have a child and regret it? Maybe they do?
(On the flip-side, I know that my mother desperately regrets a termination she was - most probably - coerced into by my father many years ago)
I agree also that we both need to seek professional counselling help and I'm looking into this. It seems our situation is really unusual though. Here Down Under, There are plenty of web pages offering support for unplanned pregnancy counselling, pre-abortion counselling, post-abortion counselling, etc. but very few for stable-committed-couple-with-a-planned-pregnancy-that-you-maybe-suddenly-want-to-get-out-of, counselling. I'm not sure I even know who to call or how to start that call on the telephone. "Hello, erm... yes, I'd like some help.."
My guess would be someone who does family therapy or couples counseling would be able to help. Its less about specific advice and more about guiding you to express your fears, needs and wants
But does any one ever have a child and regret it? Maybe they do?
Yes, they absolutely do, but because the overwhelming socially acceptable standpoint is that having kids is the best thing ever and the only thing that can give your life meaning, most who feel that way will never speak up about it and just suffer in silence, sadly.
Had one at 40. Easy to list all the negatives as you can define what you will lose. We were ambivalent but no regrets, having one means we can d most of what we want in our lives as well as as a family. Fee for you OP but as 50 looms my almost 10yo is a definite positive in my life.
Some of them are lying and will say something entirely different when they won’t be judged for it. I’ve got friends who think their lives would have been better with less/no kids but they’ll never say that in front of other parents.
No one really knows, we had 3 and now we've also 2 grandkids.
Years ago the only viable difference I reckon is we'd have had nicer cars (a Bentley rather than a BMW etc) and spent more on holidays. Now, financially, it makes no real difference whatsoever having kids/grandkids, except maybe we've someone to leave it to rather than just spunk it all (and more).
The main thing though we did gain is the past, present and ongoing enjoyment/annoyance/heartache/joy of having our own family.
As my Grandma use to say "this isn't a dress rehearsal, this is your only go" - and at your ages, this is probably your only chance of kids. So if you do decide not to, that's it.
Termination or not must be the woman's decision only as it's her body. She may want to know the mans view or she may not.
If you're a partnership then the father's view is important otherwise it's likely to kill the relationship. Maybe not immediately but somewhere down the road.
Perhaps the OP's partner is looking for a shared parenting commitment from him as her life experience has demonstrated that the mother gets left with the drudgery.
But does any one ever have a child and regret it? Maybe they do?
I think it’s probably a contributing factor in quite a few divorces. I have a friend who only had kids as some sort of tick box exercise and the kids have suffered because of this.
My father openly admitted regretting having kids. He was a shit parent and it does affect you as the child throughout your life. If either of you have serious doubts then perhaps it isn’t for you. Does your girlfriend have any support, even if it’s something similar to what you’re doing on here?
Some of them are lying and will say something entirely different when they won’t be judged for it. I’ve got friends who think their lives would have been better with less/no kids but they’ll never say that in front of other parents.
and
...because the overwhelming socially acceptable standpoint is that having kids is the best thing ever and the only thing that can give your life meaning, most who feel that way will never speak up about it and just suffer in silence, sadly.
I'm not sure on this. It's absolutely not a binary situation, there are things that are better because I have kids, and some things that are worse. But in different ways, you can't really draw a list up and compare on one side the value of eg: laughing hysterically at your kids and the things they do vs the freedom to just drop everything and go for a city break. It's not comparable. On balance I'm glad I have them but there are half a dozen things today that would be easier if I didn't. And I'll freely admit that to anyone.
Termination or not must be the womans decision only as its her body. She may want to know the mans view or she may not.
I'm also going to disagree on this too. If it's a planned and considered pregnancy then although the woman is going to do the heavy lifting so to speak, then it is a shared responsibility for how it came into existance (even if the man only had a small part in the process, badum-tish) and the decision to end it must also be shared. In the end absolutely the woman has the casting vote, and probably by an order of magnitude, but the man's wishes must be considered. Again, it's rarely black and white, setting aside accidents and other worse instances.
FWIW I'm both pro-choice and pro-life. I absolutely support the right to choose, but I also believe that termination really needs to be counselled and if that is the decision, made carefully and soberly. I'm aware of the dichotomy that the 'choice' to begin a pregnancy leading to this point is often not careful and sober.
+1 to theotherjonv re comparisons being impossible
the overwhelming socially acceptable standpoint is that having kids is the best thing ever and the only thing that can give your life meaning
Or they don't want to say it because it's likely to be a shitty thing for their child to hear/feel.
I get what you're saying, I think people being evangelical about anything is annoying, and parenting is definitely something a lot of people get like that about.
I don't disagree with you on termination jonv. Just expressed in a different way
I had two, first aged 38 with my partner 33.
I think it's great. No way I'd ever make a different decision. I genuinely don't think I was as happy pre-kids as I am now.
However....
I *think* my partner misses her pre-children life much more than I do (maybe because she's younger??). She liked going out to out and travelling a lot more than me. She's also suffered from body issues (weight gain, downstairs issues etc). Shortly after our 2nd she also got very ill with mastitis which very nearly became sepsis. The 2 week period on hospital was horrendous and our new born went from 50 percentile weight to 2nd percentile. Her employer treated her quite badly and she ended up leaving work under bad terms and she got diagnosed with quite bad post natal depression (to the point of suicide). She started a small business instead which immediately got hit by covid and has cost us a lot of money and has added to her depression/guilt. Her previous tendency to get quite stressed has got a lot worse and she struggles to cope with the kids on her own. Sometimes she just goes out to the car and has a cry. Several times she's just disappeared for many hours with no explanation. After one time, I got a call from the local shop to say she'd had a panic attack in there. She still loves the kids, and even sometimes suggests having another (no way!) but I do wonder if she'd make a different decision if she'd really known what it would be like!
It gets a lot easier as time goes on. However, ours are 3 and 5 and my partner still struggles, especially with the eldest who she just seems to clash with.
I find it quite tricky trying to be the main earner, and also look after the kids whenever my partner can't cope.
So there we go, it's not easy!
She’s beginning to freak out about the initial subtle bodily changes already taking place – just a few weeks in. Today she seems almost completely convinced that a termination is the right way out of this.
Regardless of how caring responsibilities are shared in the longer term, the first 9 months will be with her 100%, and the closer you get to the birth the greater these things will be. Also the next 9 months post birth are going to be 90% on her.
If she isnt fully signed up to this now, then its going to be a extremely difficult 18 months.
From everything you've written, so sound like you're trying to convince yourself that its a good idea, when your underlying emotions are saying otherwise?
I think this subject has more tendancy than almost any other to come down to polemic rather than debate. One side simply cannot see the other's point of view.
Either way I'm sure you'll have a great life, but this choice you both make at this crossroads is going to have a huge impact on what that life looks like.
I think this subject has more tendancy than almost any other to come down to polemic rather than debate. One side simply cannot see the other’s point of view.
Have you missed the ebike, helmet, wheelsize, disc brakes on road bikes, schrader vs presta, changing an inner tube without turning bike upsidedown debates etc? 😉
Today she seems almost completely convinced that a termination is the right way out of this.
I struggle with this - surely giving the eventual child up for adoption is the right thing to do, not take a life away.
My father openly admitted regretting having kids.
My father in law, too, told his daughter that if he'd known you were 'allowed' to not get married and have kids, he probably wouldn't have done. He was born in the 40's. That said, in his later years (once they had grown up!) I know he was glad to have them all in his life.
I would get your partner to read into termination and other women who have experienced it. It can be easy to think about in principle but living with the consequences is something different altogether.
I'm not advocating either way, just that it's a big decision that can't be taken back so it's something that you need to be completely sure of.
So here's my 2 pence worth....
I haven't read all the replies, but i have read the opening post.
Having a child will expose and enlarge any cracks in your relationship. So unless you have a water tight, super solid, soul mate on the same page with 99% of things setup, be prepared for a strain on you and your GF's relationship. On a personal level, i am lucky that me and the missus survived the first 5 years of our daughters life without too much stress or strain, but i know plenty of relationships that have gone to shite since the birth of a child.
I notice you still rent. I cant imagine you being able to afford to buy once a child comes along. They cost a fair chunk of money, one way or another and that never subsides.
Like mentioned before, a fair few blokes are 'take or leave' it, but change their tune when the little blighters turn up. But if both parties are in this boat, personally, i dont think they should be parents.
If you do go through with it, you will lose a lot of free time. Again this boils down to how good your relationship is. If its one where you take turns to do your own thing, so you still get some 'me' time, then all good. But again, i know some blokes who have no hobbies or interests anymore, as they are now 'fathers'. (this can be down to the other halfs mind you and works both ways).
On the more positive side of things, they really can bring some joy to your life. watching them learn and grow, moulding them into good human beings, celebrating their small victories... it is magical. (mine is learning to read, its freaking awesome hearing her piece the words together).
Just be aware, you cant hand them back, pop them in a cupboard or make them disappear. its a 24/7, 365 for many years commitment, that i believe, both parties need to be 100% invested in.
So I feel more-or-less 50/50 about where we are at.
So now you're going to get pages of:
Parents: "Well, if you're 50:50 then of course you should have it."
Non-parents: "Well, if you're 50:50 then of course you shouldn't have it."
As Tom said just there, "One side simply cannot see the other’s point of view."
🤷♂️ Ultimately, plenty of people can share their own experiences but no-one can tell you what to do. It's a hugely emotive subject which attracts polar opinions, John up there was talking about having an unwanted child to give away being "surely the right thing to do" whereas I'm thinking that's surely the single most wildly irresponsible thing to do. Neither of us are likely absolutely correct.
One side simply cannot see the other’s point of view.
Most people absolutely can, SOME people can't / won't. The trouble is they tend to be the ones that shout the loudest and keep shouting.
It's a totally personal decision that only the OP and his OH can make. There are pro's and con's either way, only they can weigh them against each other. Even then it won't be a 100:0 choice, if you can get to 66:33 you're probably doing well.
While I can try to put myself in the shoes of someone who really doesn't want children I can't really understand how they could go through with a termination. For me personally (but not necessarily for the OP or anyone else) the "what if" factor would be something I couldn't cope with for the rest of my life.
One of the comments I read yesterday really stood out to me. Someone said ‘you are both overthinking this’. It seems that there really are few rational reasons to have a child, and there are a million very, very rational reasons to not have one. So perhaps we are overthinking this?
That was my comment and you've obviously got exactly what I meant by it. If you sat down and coldly and logically did a pro's and cons list of if you have enough money, if your house is big enough, whether you're at the right stage in your career etc, the human race would have been extinct years ago as nobody would ever have kids. I doubt many people have kids through a process of logical evaluation. Quite the opposite. I can't think of any other decision in life that is more emotive and likely to be decided with your heart rather than your head. Well... maybe buying an Alfa Romeo 😉
While I can try to put myself in the shoes of someone who really doesn’t want children I can’t really understand how they could go through with a termination. For me personally (but not necessarily for the OP or anyone else) the “what if” factor would be something I couldn’t cope with for the rest of my life.
Because, at what point does "a couple of cells" become "a life"? Do we define that biologically, philosophically, religiously, physically, electrically, something else? Does your "what if?" concern plague you every time you have a J Arthur?
Can open, worm-like things everywhere.
I was on a temporary contract when my first was born and was for 5 years after but we got through. Now 5 and 7. Anyway, here is my advice and perspective.
1. Stop being a shitebag and put on your big boy pants.
2. You think your life has purpose and meaning? Wait till you have a child. If you are a real man (I am sure you are, some are not like BIL) and step up to your responsibilities then your life has meaning and purpose.
3. It is really hard and you can't go home or give up.
4. It is really rewarding.
5. What do you need money for? To spend on stuff and things? Might as well spend it on kids.
6. Kids are nothing like pets. Nothing at all. Anyone who tells you that is talking nonsense, because they don't know what it's like. Citation: I've had both.
7. Babies are quite boring and not much fun. It's more fun when they get older.
8.The stuff that seems really important now - holidays, 'adventures' will come to seem like a lifetimes ago childish nonsense.
Stop worrying and get wired in.