[Closed] Product photography - second attempt

Very nice!

Looks good to me what were the first photos like?

More lights to make the back ground white, love the closeups BTW did a stint doing product photography 50 - 60 products a day plus descriptions and loading them onto the CMS character building is all I can say 😯

If I had to offer some constructive advice, I'd say the shadows toward the edges of the background in the top two could do with being lightened a bit, to give a more even lit background. But it's a very minor point.

I agreed with some of the posters on the last thread, that a live human/mannequin head would be the ideal solution, but having said that I really like these images a load better than the last ones.

Are these scarves for the ladies? I really like the green one and I'm wondering if that makes me effeminate.

EDIT: the shadows. I reckon they add to the organic feel of the photos and therefore aren't a problem. Just my two pence's worth.

I like 😉

people need to see the details but also because they make beautiful pictures close up

You are right, close ups show off the colours and the beauty of the weave well.

It's still wrapped around a stick though...

The photos are good, but the scarfiness needs to be demonstrated by wrapping it around a person, or a person shaped thing. The colour problem can best be addressed by using some other coloured things in the photo; them women want to see how it works as an accessory rather than a way of keeping your neck warm.

Nice pics, but try to [i][b]be[/b][/i] the scarf...

by wrapping it around a person

That starts to get complicated: you need a model, you need clothes for them to wear to compliment the scarf, you have to light the model and the scarf, etc etc

[i]That starts to get complicated[/i]

But knowing molgrips, he's had that tree specially grown from seed, watered with spring water, killed by a rare beaver, dried in an oak fired kiln, blessed by the Dalai Llama before using it!

Thanks folks 🙂

More lights to make the back ground white

Keep it coming, I can persuade Mrs Grips to put profits towards a third flash 🙂 I know what you mean, my first effort had a flash solely illuminating the background to get rid of the rumples but I moved it around to light the product more.

I would like to have one diffused each side of the scarf shining mostly on the backdrop and then a primary to illuminate the scarf. Only got two flashes though.

The original backdrop was a sheet, but I found a roll of paper for £17 which is better even with the shadows. At least it doens't look like someone's slept in it 🙂

Are these scarves for the ladies?

Not specifically, no. Some of the ones we've sold are quite girly, but many would work for anyone. We've taken a commission for a bloke, the only thing we were going to do was make them 8ft long cos the guy in question is 6ft. These are 6ft long, and on me they rest around my belly button, waist level would be better I think.

And yes - models are out of the question, unless you're offering to do it for free and bring your own clothes, do your own hair and makeup etc...?

But knowing molgrips, he's had that tree specially grown from seed, watered with spring water, killed by a rare beaver, dried in an oak fired kiln, blessed by the Dalai Llama before using it!

Lol.. don't be silly.. all I did was research the best type of beach for finding driftwood then arrange a trip specially to collect it.

I reckon having it around the tree/stick is a great idea - every other scarf seller would have it around a person and to be perfectly honest, a scarf is a scarf is a scarf in terms of how it actually looks on a person - what people would be looking for are the designs, colours etc which this does in an imaginative way. The close-ups are a great idea as well (and look brilliant!). In terms of possible minor improvments, biggest one is as people have said above to make the background a bit whiter. Not sure on your lighting set-up, but maybe having one purely for the background would work. Or Use a fabric background and light it from the rear? Would diffuse quite nicely then.

Much better!

Could you select the background as your white point or something in PhotoShop? Just looks a little grey.

Just missed your last post! If it's lit with paper, then if it is thin enough I would try lighting from the rear. Maybe build a frame for it (if it's not on one already) to keep it taught and then either fire a flash into it or just have some permanent white lighting shining from behind and below (to avoid any hotspots). Not a flash/lighting expert, but I can't see why that couldn't look quite good.

You don't need full length Kate Moss alikes:

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

Then use your photos to show the actual weave and length...

Best get ironing!

Yeah would have tried putting a flash way behind the sheet on full blast wide angle, but the room we had to use is very small so no room behind.

[url= http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/product-photography-first-effort ]This was the previous thread.[/url] I felt I had to zoom in a lot more then because the background was shite, and the Y shaped tree I made was very low to the ground so I couldn't get a decent drop without having the floor/tree base/skirting board in shot.

I made a whole new tree out of the other half of the driftwood, bolted it to a 2x4 then made a base out of shelf brackets. It's a lot taller.

You don't need full length Kate Moss

But it might help sales 😉

Like them, nothing to moan about other than the very minor point mentioned above about the grey background, it's a small detail but if it's easily sorted you might as well.

It's still wrapped around a stick though...

I think the stick is good, the problem with using a model (aside from cost) is that people associate how the model looks with the product, if the viewer doesn't like the cut of the model they are more likely to have negative thoughts about the scarf. With the stick people have to imagine how it would look on them, subtle but important difference.

[edit]
Like in the photos above, I was already thinking the ginger fella in the first picture looks a bit wet, probably why he needs a scarf to stop the poor love from getting a chill. If you can get a great universally appealing model then it's all good if not stick's a winner.

Nah, I bet Mrs Grips is far superior, and a much better knitter.

I'd just lighten the background in Photoshop / A N other photo tool - cheaper than adding an extra flash..

I like the frame idea, but all this stuff has to roll/pack away very well. We have small kids and little storage, this paper rolls away up high out of reach 🙂

Could you select the background as your white point or something in PhotoShop?

Er.. yeah.. I possibly could.. if I knew what I was doing 🙂

Actually I am going to look into that - these are JPGs straight from the camera, I am going to look at the RAW files tonight. I need to figure out how to mask the scarf to create a layer with just the background. I might try adding complimentary colours or tints to the background too.

Crikey, the scarves are woven not knitted, obviously 🙂

And those headless models are weird, the half-headless one even more so. Most of the other scarf sellers on Etsy are either using dressmaker's dummies or just putting them on a surface.

I think the backgrounds above looks better than a pure white. The problem is that the shadows go towards red on the right hand side.
If you really want to go pure white, you don't need another flash either, just a different exposure. (Read Strobist.com for all the info you'll ever need). In short, let the flash very slightly over expose the entire background - it doesn't need to be white either, just over exposed.

Main issue for me is cutting off the bottom of the green scarf. It's like cutting off someone's foot in a portrait.

They would look better around an actual neck, but these are good IMHO.

That starts to get complicated: you need a model, you need clothes for them to wear...

Not true at all! Photos of attractive female models wearing only a scarf would likely generate tremendous interest in your site. It may or may nor result in sales, though... 😉

I like the driftwood and I didn't find the background too distracting. Although the overall exposure looks a little on the dark side.

The buyers wont be photography critics, they'll be looking at the scarves.

With the close-ups, I'd try and keep the fabric perfectly perpendicular to the camera, if it were me.

just a wondering mol, the second scarf looks brill but the first one is too close to the colour of the wood for me, what would it look like tying both scarves, green underneath, and see what the effect is?
what would it look like with a natural background, i appreciate you can't control the lighting as easily but it may work with a depth of focus. product being in focus the background out of focus?
i'm no expert but then that's what asking the stw massif gets!

Have you tried a black background ?

I'm sorry, but I don't "get" photo's. All I can see is a scarf on a stick and some closups of some carpet.

If someone could tell me whats so amazing (no offence OP) I'm ready to be educated.

Are these scarves for the ladies? I really like the green one and I'm wondering if that makes me effeminate.

Much, much better. I quite like the muted, neutral grey backdrop. As soon as you start lightening or darkening the backdrop after the event, you're making a mahoosive rod for your own back IMHO. If you feel you must, then the clarity brush in Lightroom works well.

I have an action in Photoshop that allows me to apply selective gaussian blur to a grey background with a couple of clicks (assuming you haven't any grey scarves, as it relies on the magic wand). I'd be happy to share if you like?

Kryton57, they are not meant to be art! The scarves are going to be sold online.

User removed - happy to learn any and all new stuff, I only have Elements 8.0 though.

Lighting is much better - top one looks good, don't like the cut off tassles on the second one. Closeups are really nice, especially the last one. Def agree about the BG being lighter. To me the colour on the background looks a little funny as well, seems to have a greenish tint on the left and a purplish tint on the right. What colour is it - actually white?

I'm still not convinced about the whole stick thing either TBH.

Regarding creases in the backdrop... Can you record actions with Elements 8? If so, use the magic wand to select the grey areas then just make an action which feathers the edge of the selction slightly and then a bit of filters / blur / guassian blur to the desired amount, then deselect.

Then all you have to do for each new image is click on the grey bit with the wand and play the new action.

It's also enormously helpful to use [url= http://www.photoshoptools.ca/AutoLoader.html ]autoloader[/url] to open, save and close the photos sequentially with one mouse stroke, but it looks like it only works with CS3 onwards 🙁 So you'll still have to press File, Save as, Jpeg level 10 (or whatever) each time.

EDIT: Oh, and as Grum says, I'm seeing a slight magenta cast on the right of the images on a callibrated laptop screen.

Ok well that is camera flash wb setting, raw files will be played with tonight maybe see what happens.

What alternatives can you think of for the stick? Bear in mind we cannot leave anything set up.

Pah.

I can't avoid the feeling that you are fannying about with the photography when the scarves are the point...*

Get some more photos done, use the kids, use yourself, use the lovely Mrs grips, whatever..

*in a typical molgrips never-quite-get-to-the-bloody-point-way...

I like these, I think the grey background is better, less harsh. It's a bit unevenly lit, but as user-removed says, there are easy ways to just select the background colour, then use the dropper tool to set a neutral grey. I really like the detail shots, and particularly the perspective one. They are really nice scarves, and, personally, I think you're about 90% there. The driftwood works well, and I'd happily buy one based on your photos. Well done. These comments are based on what I used to do every day as my job, retouching scans of product shots like these*, so there are lots of things that became second-nature, but I haven't done any for nine years, so it's a bit difficult for me to remember specifics, but there are lots of tutorials around.
*The Titleist product catalog for several years, for example; you have [i]no[/i] idea just how fussy they can be about a photo of a golf ball... 😯

very nice like the texture the lights give. pure white background isn't important as the subject isn't an shiney shiney object.

I think the photos are good. The driftwood works.

The scarves look nice, when are you going to start flogging them and from where? Would make a good pressie for the missus, she loves a scarf.

Much better. The knot has a nice flow to it and the drop of the fabric looks natural, lighting brings out the texture.
Being picky (it's my job) I would crop tighter and get rid of the little pointy bit of wood with the hole top right. Put your finger over this on screen and you will see what I mean, the background has some colour shifts so mask that off and take the saturation right down so it's neutral. Maybe lighten it a bit too?
I like the closeups

I had Mrs Grips arrange the scarves, so that's all her magic touch 🙂

I'm currently working on the RAW images, I'm going to adjust the white balance to get the colours as representative as possible based on our mental impression of the scarves, having worked on them for ages.

Mostly the camera WB has it pretty good but there's one copper coloured one that looks waaaay too orange and a sort of lilac one that looks too purple.

I'll have a go at lightening up the background, we'll see how well that works out!

Re cropping, I am a little worried that going any tighter will make the scarf too close to the top of the frame and make it look weird.

I can't avoid the feeling that you are fannying about with the photography when the scarves are the point...*

The thing is, etsy is very competitive, and you have to have good pictures otherwise you might as well not bother. And it was Mrs Grips in fact who was really unhappy with the original images not me so ner 🙂

grips, i hope these are not mens scraves....

real men don't wear scarves, right?!

nice pics BTW..

I think the driftwood gives a good outdoorsy feel to it but I'd agree with trying not to cut of parts of the scarf, particularly the ends where a lot of the detail is.

The second close up is good, nice depth of field and not to square on like the first close up. Maybe worth trying different angles etc so the weave isn't always at 90deg.

I would say though that the background looks like it's supposed to be bright white but not pulling it off. I'd either get it brighter or change it entirely but at the minute it's neither here nor there.

Oh and you can buy roll up dual-sided white/black vinyl backgrounds on a collapsible frame thing from eBay for £20 which might be worth a look.

I think the background is great, the shadows represent the approaching dark clouds that necessitate the wearing of a scarf - but I am not very arty so you can probably ignore me.

How much are they? These could really appeal to my local market.

Well at the risk of breaking the rules by advertising, they are between £35 and £45. There are currently 18 in stock all really different, and commissions are available.

Search for LoomyBin on Facebook for more info, or come to the Milkwood Gallery art market in Cardiff on the 11th 🙂

The background is supposed to be bright white, yes. If I turned up the flash it ended up over-exposing the scarf, so that's the compromise I ended up with.

Re the close-ups, I've taken two of each scarf - one at an angle with it sloping away to the distance out of focus, and one more perpendicular. You see one of each on this thread.

Much better than the first version...I think they look really good!

Will you be selling driftwood as well? There's quite a market for it, especially if you call it sculpture - check fleabay for prices.

I think the scarves show off the driftwood really well!

As other have said the lighting of the background would better being more uniform as it has a gradient from right to left which isn't the norm (tends to be top to bottom) for product photos.

Lol.. weaving scarves is preferable to combing beaches for wood. We walked all over one beach and only found one bit.

Cheers for the compliments so far anyway. Here's another effort, having figured out the magic wand tool and adjustment layers 🙂

[url= http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8334/8142944781_34754f3cca_c.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8334/8142944781_34754f3cca_c.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/11569254@N06/8142944781/ ]Raspberry Royale copy.jpg[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/11569254@N06/ ]molgrips[/url], on Flickr

Great shots, and contrary to others I'd say you don't need a model to show them off. Most people know what a scarf looks like round their neck! Nice work dude

That last one is a mess - your first one is the best with a crisper fold, you need to be able to see the scarf incl. the tassles.

molgrips; first up - please don't make the mistake of taking stuff on the internet too seriously. The photos are absolutely fine, and kick the ass of most of the images on Etsy. Concentrate on SEO and word of mouth (keyboard). Google ads / Facebook ads / keyword and name everything that goes online (christmas scarf gifts, scarves london (or wherever), winter fashion). You'll know your market and keywords better than I do.

Secondly; (and I may have said this before) never mind messing about with speedlites - invest in a decent set of studio lights and you will never. ever. look. back.

your first one is the best with a crisper fold, you need to be able to see the scarf incl. the tassles.

Agree with this.
The green scarf photo is the best, in terms of showing the product anyway, I can't comment on the techie photo geek aspects.

Nice pics, but try to [i]be [/i]the scarf...

😆

invest in a decent set of studio lights

Hmm.. I can see how this would be great but it's a cost.. I already had the flashes lying around.

SEO - it could prove too effective. We can only really make 1-2 of these a week.

I do agree with the comments about the purple scarf. They are all different textures and some hang much nicer than others. In fact, some are just nicer full stop 🙂

The pics are taken though, I'm not doing any more. I posted it up to see if the background was better? I selected it with magic wand, created a hue/saturation layer, put saturation down to 0 and increased lightness. Simple but I think it looks good?

ace photos there..

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that to my eye, you've got the background just right (ish) on that last shot..

a pure white background would be too stark, 90s and tacky.. you're selling a soft natural product so soft natural tones will be far more evocative..
erm.. don't sweat the details [i]too[/i] much.. just make sure that you display the scarf.. cropping the tassles off is just silly..

Etsy is a good checkout counter, but that's all it can be realistically, the final step in a marketing process.. It's such a vast resource that just sticking your scarves on and hoping to sell a couple will be futile..
You will be asking your prospective customers to find a needle in a haystack when they don't even know what the needle looks like.. far from the ideal shopping experience and only likely to snare the odd pathological 24/7 shopaholic..

we started a small online business a few years ago.. pushing your stuff and google and facebook is the only way..

In hindsight, although our business is now a roaring success, I wish that we'd been in a position to put more effort into our product photography at the start..

good stuff

Thanks yunki. We are on facebook already, Google has not yet been looked at though. The difference between us and most businesses though is our volume is severely limited by production capacity. So we don't want too much demand. Having said that, it would allow us to increase prices...

BG loooks much better IMO. For me you are still cutting off too much of the bottom of the scarf and showing unnecessary/distracting amounts of the bit of wood at the top though.

Ok.. well like I say I had not intended to take any more pictures - I took them at the weekend and brought the images with me. But I guess I could go back and take some more......

Desaturating that background has made a vast difference. Nice work.
I agree about not cropping the tassels though.

Don't worry too much about fiddling with the colour balance. None of your potential customers will have a calibrated monitor. They will look a different colour to everyone who looks at them.

If I do go back and take more photos, I might saw off that extra bit of wood top right..

Oh and for those who think using a model would be simple - check out [url= http://www.lizchristy.com/ ]this site[/url] for how not to do it. Although she has got some properly modelled shots, the scarf is defintely an accessory in the pic of the model rather than the focus of the picture. Which completely changes the picture and means your eye has to actually hunt out the scarf. Not ideal.

[url= http://www.hazelbhandweaver.co.uk/silkmerinoscarves.html ]This one is interesting[/url].. she's used a dressmaker's dummy and badly 'shopped it out leaving the scarf hanging on nothing. Could have worked, but too much stark white and harsh edges.

Shop is up:

http://www.etsy.com/shop/LoomyBin

The individual pictures look ok but the whole page looks pretty meh. Needs a lot more colour and interest. Perhaps I need a few different setups for hanging them?

We have not yet put the close-up shots on either. I'm wondering if the close-ups should be the main thumbnail for each scarf instead of the hanging shot...

I think that looks good.

It's now let down by the text below the photos which needs some styling / formatting as it looks quite basic and I don't think anyone has thought about the layout e.g. use Tabs, Scarf Name in Bold or larger font size, etc.

http://www.etsy.com/listing/114718147/irish-hills-handwoven-scarf

any premier member discount? 😉

Enter the code STW at checkout, I'm sure there'll be something in it 🙂

Footflaps - you can put formatting in the text? I don't think we knew that! Cheers for the tip 🙂

code didn't work...

Oh... hold on a mo...

Tiramisu page needz proof readin

and reported for advertising spam!

Joking!

I must say - the scarves look very nice!
For something hand made and that has a 'one-of-a-kind' appearance, £35 is a bargain!

and reported for advertising spam!

Yeah I'm walking a fine line here! Sorry modz..

Alex - yeah everyone says that, my colleague reckoned the 10 foot long Doctor Who style one she just did for a commission should have been £100.

Vinnyeh - try TG2012 as a code.

Footflaps - you can put formatting in the text? I don't think we knew that! Cheers for the tip

I just assumed it would support it, but apparently not: http://www.etsy.com/teams/7714/ideas/discuss/10363249/

was just joking, would be wrong to squeeze a new business.

It'll be a nice wee surprise for the wife.

You're a true gent 🙂 But the discount code was a public one so don't feel guilty!

Mol, it's been a while since I last looked at your thread, but just to add my thoughts on the last photo of the purple scarf; nice photo, it shows the scarf well, without distractions, and you've got the background exactly right. It's not dead flat, there's some subtle shading that looks natural. I reckon you've done a first class job, with limited resources, and if you need to take more, you know exactly what you need to do. Nice job, I'm really impressed.
Oh, and the scarves are lovely, too! 😀

CZ, that is easily the most complimentary thing anyone's said to me on STW (well.. along with the other compliments on the thread 🙂 ). I'm really chuffed, cheers 🙂

True about the limited resources btw - the cheap studio stuff on Amazon really came through and turns out to be entirely usable.

True about the limited resources btw - the cheap studio stuff on Amazon really came through and turns out to be entirely usable.

My next purchase will be a flash stand and umbrella.

I'll find the links for the ones I bought. £10 for the stand, £10 again for the brolly holder I think and £6 for the brolly.