[Closed] Product photography - first effort

All I'll say is the white background doesn't look right to me.
Maybe a light tinge of some colour would be nice, say blue.

Yeah, having a coloured background is something we thought of, but it affects how you see the colours in the article.

Accurate colour reproduction is probably the main aim here, because we don't want people thinking they are buying a colour then finding it clashes with their jacket or whatever when they get it.

They look great in terms of scarfiness, but you need to photograph them in use, on a person, in a scarf-likely situation.

Plain white background, and not so closely cropped, want to be able to see all of the scarf (or a closeup just showing a part of it, not inbetween as above images).

Nice though 🙂

I would really love to have a model, but Mrs Grips won't do it and I don't know anyone else 🙂

Duane - they are so closely cropped because the background is rubbish, full of wrinkles and all.

Asda, buy a cheap bedsheet, iron, hang up. Voila.

Green one looks a bit awkward, retouch out the slither of wood on RHS and the extra green lump on the left, would look better knotted? The lighting looks a bit flat, maybe have a smaller slightly more directional light and fill in with something diffuse.
I like the brown scarf, is the fabric made by hand? How much are they?

They look great in terms of scarfiness, but you need to photograph them in use, on a person, in a scarf-likely situation.

This, I see them around the neck of someone rather than hanging from something

Is there a college nearby? Students will do anything you ask them to for a pot noodle. Seriously, it's a good place to ask for cheap/free models.

Duane, that is exactly what the background is, a bedsheets. It is not thick enough to be free from wrinkles.

MrSmith, I find it very hard to strange them to look good, Mrs Grips is much better fortunately. I know what you mean about being flat, I only have two flashes though and need one for eliminating shadows from the backdropI think. Could move the direct one to the side a bit, will try that. The orientation of the scarf is also critical as it determines how much of backdrop lighting it catches. It is all done in a tiny space.

Re the scarves she will be thrilled to get compliments, they are handwoven from fancy fibres, email in profile if you are interested 🙂

I only have two flashes though and need one for eliminating shadows from the backdrop

A main light and a piece of white or half silver (mat not shiny) card as a reflector would be enough to light your subject and bring out the texture and shape of the product. Bit tricky if your flash has no modelling light to see the effects of moving lights/ reflectors though.
Can't you just cut them out in photoshop and not worry about lighting the background?

Great looking scarves and I like the way the second one 'hangs' so don't see a problem with the lack of a 'model'

Maybe try black velvet as a background? I used to have a piece that I kept and used as a 'neutral' background and it worked well. Just make sure you hang it far enough back to be out of focus

Black.. hmm.. interesting. MrSmith.. where do you put the reflector? The flash still points at the subject..? Confused. had a brief go whiting out the background in Photoshop, the fuzzy edges are tricky but I need yi do a bit of learning there.

The 'model' doesn't have to be human, just something to give an idea of the size. (Never brought a scarf in my life so maybe I don't know what I'm talking about.)

I think the wood just looks weird TBH, if you can't find a model I'd probably prefer to just see them nicely folded on a table. And I agree the crops are too close.

I've never bought a scarf in my life either but the brown one is purty.

Could you rig up a lightbox for the background? A light source behind the sheet like a couple of fluorescent tubes, with a white sheet behind that, so that any wrinkles and shadows are removed, or else just select all the white background in photoshop with the dropper tool and pull the curves or levels so that the same effect is achieved. That's probably easiest, any bits that don't select properly can be painted or erased in masks. Not a difficult thing to do, and once you've got a clean background with a mask you can experiment filling it with different shades and colours to your hearts content, to see what gives the best balance.
It's what I'd do. 😀

I have no technical expertise, but on the basis it's displaying a scarf rather than an art competition, I think the second one's pretty good. Would show me what i needed to know about the scarf, tbh. First is a fail because the scarf hanging is wrong, let the wife do the arranging would be my tip.

Top one looks weird to me, almost like it's had a background edited out. And I guess that's setting my brain off going "Photoshopped image" even though it isn't. I'm no expert obviously but I'm an experienced impulse buyer 😉

My suggestion would be to look at some scarf retailers like [url= http://www.scarves.net ]scarves.net[/url] and see how they display them.

Or find a forum with more wimmenz' on it!

Edit - don't think I ever bought a scarf either...

Definitely cropped too tight. I could deal with the rest of the issues mentioned happily but not being able to see all of the product is a pain.

If the background is sufficiently far enough away from the subject then you should be able to keep it out of focus so you don't see any wrinkles (depth of field etc).

Black.. hmm.. interesting. MrSmith.. where do you put the reflector? The flash still points at the subject..? Confused. had a brief go whiting out the background in Photoshop, the fuzzy edges are tricky but I need yi do a bit of learning there.

Just realised the flash is on the camera? That's part of the problem, to bring out the texture of the fabric it needs to be off camera and the fill-in reflector goes on the opposite side. It's a standard lighting technique.
Plenty of tutorials on the web for masking/cutting out. There's an over enthusiastic septic called Russell brown who does easy to follow ones if you can put up with his annoying vocal delivery.

Why are you using a sheet? Just use a roll of paper from an art shop if a roll of colorama paper is too big or expensive.

Edit: just read your OP and your flash is off camera so put one at 45° between camera and scarf and fill in with reflector on the opposite side and see how the look.

the brown scarf looks really good to me!

i'd not worry too much about distorting the colours - people accept that small runs will vary somewhat.

this ([url= http://stitchmilane.bigcartel.com/ ]stitch mi lane[/url]) is my friend's products on a similar theme - may give you an idea of other ways to display them

Accurate colour reproduction is probably the main aim here, because we don't want people thinking they are buying a colour then finding it clashes with their jacket or whatever when they get it.

Ate you shooting an 18% grey card with the same lighting to get an accurate white balance?

They don't look like scarves.

EDIT - if Mrs won't be shot, how about propping with something like this...

[img] [/img]

Exposure and detail looks good to me molgrips, not that keen on the way they are displayed, have you tried out some different poses, such as:

[img] [/img]

[edit] nice scarfs btw, where can we get them from and how much £££?

😉

I agree with ski. I think they need to be at least knotted like scarves.

The first one could be a tea towel the way it is shown (no disrespect to the article, but it just isn't displayed in a very scarf like manner. The tassels on the second help with the scarfiness, but still think it need knotting somehow).

Mr Smith.. I see what you mean now, I can see how the reflector would work. Will check out the PS techniques too, cheers for the tips. You've earned yourself a scarf discount 🙂

grum - no, just using 'flash' WB settings. A grey card could be useful though.

Re paper backdrop - I've seen it done, but I had no idea from where to get a giant sheet of paper, and sheets are widely available and cheap. Paper would solve a fair few issues though. I'm also rather tempted to look out a cheap old projector screen, they must be available cheap somewhere.

The dressmaker dummy - also thought of but we don't have one and they are expensive. We are trying to do this on the super cheap, although we've sold the chocolate scarf (sorry folks, but more can be made 🙂 ) and there might be three more orders on the way so we might have some money to re-invest.

Re knotting - will give it a go. Looking at that flat pic above I am thinking I could use a single stick with a peg in it instead of the Y shaped piece we have been using.

I hope I won't get into trouble for this with the mods but check out Loomybin on Facebook. An Etsy store will be created when we get the photos sorted out!

Re paper backdrop - I've seen it done, but I had no idea from where to get a giant sheet of paper, and sheets are widely available and cheap. Paper would solve a fair few issues though. I'm also rather tempted to look out a cheap old projector screen, they must be available cheap somewhere

art shop or a small 6ft roll of colorama (if they do them that small? i use 9 or 12ft)
dont use a projector screen it's shiny.
a more durable option is a sheet of formica but it's more expensive and unwieldily unless you have plenty of clamps/rods.

For nice 'natural' looking scarves like that, why not head out in the fab autumn sunshine and get some shots outside?

grum - no, just using 'flash' WB settings. A grey card could be useful though.

If colour accuracy is important I would have thought it's essential, especially if you don't have a calibrated monitor. Grey cards aren't expensive.

You've earned yourself a scarf discount

currently wearing a fetching Missoni creation (when it gets cold enough) but i'll check the store when its up and running for a christmas gift. 🙂

Will check out art shop for rolls.. thought they only did sheets..

Our first thought was outside, but the wind keeps blowing it about, finding a suitable backdrop isn't easy, and the light is far from consistent, in terms of direction, quality and intensity.

I'll order a grey card, thanks.

matt_outandabout - Member

For nice 'natural' looking scarves like that, why not head out in the fab autumn sunshine and get some shots outside?

+1, spot on time of the year to do it, find an nice old Oak to hang them off, or, family shot, walking a dog, etc

It's a lot harder than it sounds, outdoors. Like I said it was our first idea.

For cheap backgrounds I use A1 Cardstock from Hobbycraft. Loads of colours available, £2 ish a sheet.

I took this this morning with said piece of cardstock. Ice White is the colour. Photograph not the greatest because I'm still learning. But a bit of blue tack holds it in place.

[IMG] [/IMG]

We went to hobbycraft, we didn't think A1 was big enough...

[url= http://www.wexphotographic.com/buy-colorama-1-35x11m-arctic-white/p1019248 ]http://www.wexphotographic.com/buy-colorama-1-35x11m-arctic-white/p1019248[/url]

Why not tie the scarves around the stick then, rather than drape? The biggest clue to saying it is a scarf without it being around a neck is the knot.

If colour accuracy is important I would have thought it's essential, especially if you don't have a calibrated monitor. Grey cards aren't expensive.

I find it easier to set WB using a white card, I would only use a grey card to set exposure (but most likely chimp it). A colour checker passport or similar would be the ultimate if you want to be 100% certain of the colours though.

At work we have a frame and a huge white sheet which we can drape behind and under for a backdrop. Then we have two high power daylight bulbs with diffusers to light the subject. Seems to work ok.

NB Good effort for a 1st attempt.

Thanks flaps.

Thinking about umbrellas now. They are cheap, would they be useful..?

I find it easier to set WB using a white card, I would only use a grey card to set exposure

Why's that then?

Thinking about umbrellas now. They are cheap, would they be useful..?

yes. get the convertable ones, silver/white with black on the outside for a more direct light and then a white shoot through on lower power for a fill-in. they are the same brolly but the black/silver comes off

These are the lights I've used: http://www.photosel.co.uk/studio-lighting/continuous-lighting/light-heads/studio-light-head-lh21e51.html

NB No idea how good they are in terms of other stuff as they're the only ones I've used. I just do the company photography as a hobby as it's quicker / easier than shipping stuff out to a professional. I can just set up in a meeting room and do product shots in my lunch break....

If you're anywhere near Cambridge, you're welcome to borrow them to play with...

Thanks, but I'm a long way from Cambridge 🙂

MrS will look for those ta.

There are cheapo £6 brollies on amazon, I could get a white one and a silver one for less than one convertible one. Assuming there's no disadvantage with going super cheap.

I usually use just one prime light. That is use the second light to fill or add accent two light mean two sets of shadows and a flat looking lighting setup. Between two lights if your looking at making the product look natural keep one light lower than the other. as a friend said ' there is only ever one sun'
Twin light or flat light is usually reserved for techical/medical eveidence photography rather than advertising.

Hmm.. so now maybe.. one light 45 degrees left and high up, reflector or second light on lower power to the right 45 degrees.. move the scarf far enough away from the backdrop so that any shadows can be cropped out of the picture... hmmm....

Why's that then?

Because it’s white balance, not grey balance 😉

In seriousness, I read something ages ago that using grey can increases chroma noise errors and most grey cards aren't really neutral grey (mine isn't, it's a bit yellow), but mainly I just think i'm more likely to have something lying around that’s easily identifiable as white rather than look for something neutral grey.

FWIW I don’t normally set a custom WB, I’d do that in Lightroom. In the shots shown earlier I think it would be easier to reference the white background for WB (as long as it’s not blown).

I wonder how far away from the lovely scarves knitted by mrs long-suffering molgrips this thread can get...

I suspect she has a special one to wind gently around mr molgrips throat!

In seriousness, I read something ages ago that using grey can increases chroma noise errors and most grey cards aren't really neutral grey (mine isn't, it's a bit yellow), but mainly I just think i'm more likely to have something lying around that’s easily identifiable as white rather than look for something neutral grey.

Fair enough, never heard that before. It's just I know a photography trainer that recommends using a grey card for WB. I shall take pleasure in telling him he's wrong. 🙂

FWIW I don’t normally set a custom WB, I’d do that in Lightroom. In the shots shown earlier I think it would be easier to reference the white background for WB (as long as it’s not blown).

I don't either, but if you take a pic of the grey card, then use the WB dropper on LR, you can then apply that WB to all the photos from that set. I don't do it often TBF but if colour accuracy was that big an issue I would. The thing is with a lot of stuff that is 'white' it actually isn't quite, can be hard to tell sometimes.

Top effort for a first go! I'd struggle with something like that!

One thing I would be tempted to do is experiment with the position of the light - on the odd occasion i have photographed MrsMM's woollen goods, (for her to post on the knitting version of STW) I tend to use daylight (as i don't need consistency...) but I position the garment so light hits it at an angle that would be (at a guess) equivalent to the light being at 60-70 degrees from camera so you are lighting more 'across' the item, helping to show the texture as well.

Re the colour side of things - it is worth getting it as right as possible which could involve the use of (investment) in a device like a [url= http://www.wexphotographic.com/buy-datacolor-spyder-4-express/p1528823 ]Spyder[/url] - that makes sure that what you're posting is as accurate as you can make it but, be aware - I believe it is fair to say that the majority of monitors out there are not calibrated at all so do be aware that this [i]could[/i] lead to issues when clients get their goods - be sure to be detailed about the colour in your text description to avoid confusion / returns.
IIRC - people like paint companies have on their websites a disclaimer to this effect.

<wishes BenjiM all the best> - the cheese is arguably quite straightforward but, the foil wrapped item is reflecting things from all angles!

it's quicker / easier than shipping stuff out to a professional. I can just set up in a meeting room and do product shots in my lunch break....

so let me get this right, you give up your lunch hour to do unpaid work for the company you work for? 😯

most grey cards aren't really neutral grey (mine isn't, it's a bit yellow)

You know, your eyes aren't necessarily accurate either. Each one of mine has a different colour temp, so how a 'white' card looks varies depending on which eye I look out of!

I wonder how far away from the lovely scarves knitted by mrs long-suffering molgrips this thread can get.

Hehe.. they are woven, not knitted, which makes them more awesome.. and she actually appreciates the fact that I'm helping her out. She's very picky about colours and stuff, so I can help her out and get approval for some camera kit at the same time 🙂 Not that umbrellas and stuff are exciting, but I might be able to get a better second flash...

Marsdenman - cheers.. next weekend I'm going to experiment with having the primary light shining more across the fabric, and perhaps getting more creative with the background light.

A question first, are you trying to sell the scarves on behalf of your wife, or are you trying to learn product photography?

If it's the first, then try something off the wall like draping them around animals, dogs, cats or farmyard types complete with sunnies of course, in this day and age in order to be noticed things need to be very different.

If it's the second, then generally product photography gets carried out preferably in a daylight studio if your lucky enough to find one then with lighting as highlights, next best is studio lights with umbrellas, cones, highlighters. I did have a set kicking around from a former life I'm wondering where they are now.
Also doing the job for real you tend to use large format cameras, not such a problem with scarfs but close up with other stuff you get sharpness issues due to acute depth of field close up.

It used to be my job in a previous life, it must be easier now with digital backs, in our day we used to shoot polaroids till we got the effect we needed.

Having said all that, I didn't think what you'd done so far was a bad effort, at the end of the day product shots are about getting the job done so folk can see what it is they are about to buy and you've done that O.K. already..

I'm trying to take photos of the stuff so she can make her Etsy store.

She tried herself with her P&S but was not satisfied particularly with the colour reproduction.

I asked on here about it, and was advised to use incandescent light or flash, and I happened to have flashes lying around and I noticed stands and umbrellas etc are very cheap on Amazon, so that's where we ended up.

We also had to find a way of displaying the articles, which involved searching for artistically gnarly bits of wood, and we needed a backdrop because we only had a small corner of the junk filled spare room in which to work... Oh and we are on an extreme budget so we can't splash loads of money on lighting.

I agree that the product shots are just to show the article, but we also do need to make them look good and make good looking pictures, because there are lots of scarves on Etsy already. I think displaying them creatively and making attractive pictures is going to be as hard as taking the damn pictures.

generally product photography gets carried out preferably in a daylight studio

what a load of twaddle. it's gloomy as fu*k out there right now so no work would get done today. it's not a midsummer miami beach bikini shoot. 🙄

All good comments on here so I'll just ask:

1) Are you shooting in RAW, in if not, why not?

2) Did you take some close ups of the actual weave? - Folk appreciate such things and you can get all arty with the diagonals etc.

Put them on a dog with shades on. Everyone loves a dog in shades.

generally product photography gets carried out preferably in a daylight studio

Guy across the road from me was a professional product photographer. Their studios had no windows, all blacked out. He says the ratio of his work was typically spending up to 3 days sorting our lighting and about 15 mins or less taking photos. The 3 days was for big things like F1 cars (it's a big studio).