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Did you have to attend a special training camp to become this offensive, or are you just naturally talented?
I am just trying to establish what's the difference between those celebrities/rock stars etc who in past behaved with similar manner towards their fans? Shouldn't they be prosecuted too? Consensual? How can they be consensual? For example, in the cast of courtney stodden she was 16 and consensual but what if she was too young to consider what's right/wrong?
Trafficking as in the type that Ghislaine Maxwell was found guilty of this month.
Yes, Maxwell is found guilty but is he involved?
You're not trying to establish anything @ chewkw
You're just attention seeking/trolling as per usual.
The other little nugget is that Guiffre was ‘recruited’ when she was 15 and working at Mar A Largo. Now that the judge has excluded anyone not specifically mentioned on the Epstein agreement from ‘protection’ maybe she’s lining-up a suit against the orange sleazeball, maybe after she’s been paid-out by HRH? Then again, Drump might be in Rykers wearing an orange jumpsuit if the NY DA gets his way.
Chewkw, it's beyond a joke now. Please educate yourself...start by reading this thread then go and read some stuff. I didn't think you could sink any lower in my estimation, but we'll done you.
Chewkw - you're either a troll or a ****. Either way, your comments about a victim of sexual abuse are out of order. Please stop.
you’re either a troll or a ****.
Can be both
If I understand correctly, she has to show that the Royal Lying Git
a) knew that she was being trafficked
b) that she was under the legal age for sex in the country where the sex happened
But because this is not a criminal case she only has to show that it is more than likely rather than definitely. The the jury needs gets to set the award - which may or may not be challenged later. If the RLG legal costs are currently £3m plus then hers are probably a similar amount, so her legal team are going to need $10m plus to cover all their costs before she gets a cent.
The RLG is not being 'tried' for actions of Maxwell and Epstein, just for his own actions. And in fact he is not being tried, just sued. The US have already decided that there was insufficient information for a reasonable chance of a prosecution and it was already too late. This case was only filed when NY State (not the US Government) changed the rules. Even if the jury make an award against him, it does not technically make him guilty - just the balance of doubt is more in her favour than his.
I suspect that this has got a long way to go - no doubt the RLG legal team will challenge to name others who she had sex with and ask her why there are not being sued among other aspects. It is not going to be pretty.
And even then if she does 'win' and get an award then I suspect the RLG has no assets in the US, so she will need to try to get a civil award in the UK.
I suspect that she expected the RLG to pay out quietly when she first sued him, but it has now snowballed out of control. No one will win - it will drag on and no doubt more salacious detail will keep the media happy and be dripped out.
So many years (and many more pages of comments) to go!
Reported that his legal and PR fees are running at c£3 mill.
I'd be looking for a refund! His PR people can't possibly have run up any meaningful bill given the mess he/they have made of it, and so far a bunch of expensive layers have appeared in court a few times (for a day max) and done some not very amazing prep work. Even by US standards that's not £3M. Now it might be £3M before the trial starts, but I can't see how you could get to those numbers today.
t’s my ignorance, but I’ve no idea how she ended up where she was at 17. You’d have thought most parent’s alarm bells would have been ringing like hell long before. Was she in care or have a super dysfunctional family?
Yes - reportedly abused before she was a teenager, living on the streets by the time she's 13 then foster care before going back to her dad who happened to work for Trump!
And even then if she does ‘win’ and get an award then I suspect the RLG has no assets in the US, so she will need to try to get a civil award in the UK.
That will be a piece of cake. As Mountbatten-Windsor has taken part in the US proceedings, the UK courts will "recognise" the US judgment and grant a UK judgment to enforce it over here.
Had he not responded to the UK case, as I advised him (via this forum) up-thread, then the US judgment would not have been enforceable.
I think she wants to ruin him. Thats my guess. she got half a million off Epstein. I don’t think its money although if he offers enough as a settlement she is pretty much obliged to take it
But she wants to see him ruined both financially and reputation wise
she's probably already achieved one! I'm not sure that he'll make an offer that would be acceptable - not from a financial sense but because he'll not want to admit fault. Now I don't know how she's bankrolling her legal fees so it may be an offer is made that her advisors say to take - but whilst she might have settled for six figures and a no-fault apology for any upset caused a year ago, I'm sure she'll be looking for a complete admission! I might be wrong but I can't see Her Majesty bankrolling an admission.
I think the queen would be very ill advised to bankroll him. If she is seen using what is effectively public money to pa his legal debts that would be a very big nail in the coffin of the monarchy. I do feel a little sorry for her in one way - although of course it his dysfunctional upbringing that led him to here but for the queen there is nothing she can do to limit the damage now and a choice between cut her son off and watch him sink deeper of bankroll him and badly damage the monarchy is not much of a choice. His corrupt "friends" with money and power will cut him off as he is no longer much use to them
If she is seen using what is effectively public money
I think the royal family would disagree about the public money bit. According to them (and I think this has been agreed with the government at times) some of their stuff is actually theirs.
Some of it but not much of it. There was a deal a while ago over this IIRC. Most of the property is " held in trust for the nation" is it not?
it would certainly be seen as "public money"
She could sell Balmoral. I'd chip in, the nation (as in the people not the gov) could buy it back and rewild it. Rent out rooms and have a few bothies.
The Queen will not bankroll him. He may end up with accommodation on a royal estate somewhere in return for keeping his head down for the rest of his life, but he's done with the royal family now. Lots of people want to make this about the Queen and the Royal family, but this is Andrew's own making, and the Firm is more important. Rightly, in this situation.
The link to Trump and working at his estate is interesting. Not being funny, but the Epstein pay off wasn't huge, so how is she funding herself now? Has anyone else paid her off?
Not a criticism of her, given what she went through.
If the qyueen does not bankroll him he has no way of paying lawyers and of paying the comp. He is broke. Getting money for favours for him is gone. He is going to need millions
She could sell Balmoral. I’d chip in, the nation (as in the people not the gov) could buy it back and rewild it. Rent out rooms and have a few bothies.
Be careful what you wish for - if she sells it, it would almost certainly not be as a special arrangement for the people of Scotland so I'd expect some Russian, Saudi, or other such money would be used to make the exact opposite of your dream!
Not being funny, but the Epstein pay off wasn’t huge, so how is she funding herself now?
I would assume the lawyers would be working on a no fee to win basis.
If she is seen using what is effectively public money to pa his legal debts that would be a very big nail in the coffin of the monarchy.
Here's hoping!
It's a murky thing the finances of the Saxe-Coburgs, er sorry, the Windsors. Queenie is wealthy in her own right with a top up from us, the plebs. Of course how she became wealthy and the generational avoidance of inheritance tax to allow that to happen is another story. But agreed, what probably counts more is how it is seen, rather than the strictly legal situation.
The link to Trump and working at his estate is interesting. Not being funny, but the Epstein pay off wasn’t huge, so how is she funding herself now? Has anyone else paid her off?
Lawyers will be working on no win no fee basis. I imagine she has a job.
If the qyueen does not bankroll him he has no way of paying lawyers and of paying the comp. He is broke. Getting money for favours for him is gone. He is going to need millions
He's selling a £75 million chalet.....
Virginia Giuffre would be unlikely to accept a “purely financial settlement” to end her sexual assault civil lawsuit against the royal, her lawyer has said.
Boies said: “I think it’s very important to Virginia Giuffre that this matter be resolved in a way that vindicates her and vindicates the other victims.”
I hope she does just that – make that despicable leech publicly admit what he did, make him responsible for his actions.
He’s selling a £75 million chalet…..
If only. Shit-hole's only worth £17 million. And there was £6 million outstanding in debt so it's only gonna net him £11 million, add a fire sale tax and the price keeps dropping....
Whod want to buy a chalet that sweaty andy had used !
Im sure andy & queenie will make a great effort to convince us all that shes not paying his legal fees
What's the old legal phrase? Play silly games win silly prizes.
Welcome to the real world Andrew - a world where you have no authority or experience, you're broke, you're f*cked and are going to be eaten alive.
@kimbers i'd get it steam cleaned as part of the fixtures and fittings contract...maybe some kind of exorcism too! 😀
you’re f*cked and are going to be eaten alive
I think the Prince will be just fine. He got something like 15m from the sale of Sunninghill Park so even at a conservative 4% return he had 600k income from that in recent years. Most of his holidays/luxury lifestyle was provided/gifted by others. Some of those friends will rally round, others will cut ties but I think he is very long way from being on the street with or without his mums help.
Instantly recognisable pariah, hopping fences to play on the back nine of a municipal golf course at dusk, barred from Pizza Express. That's pretty shit.
I mentioned it before but, if you haven't already listened to it, John Sweeneys podcast, Hunting Ghislaine is excellent. They dig into Randy Andys finances a bit, including the purchase of that chalet. There is also a suggestion that the photo of him and Epstein was orchestrated, Epstein paid off some of Fergies debt in return for a photo with the Prince to help his creditability rating.
Andy won't be poor by any real world standard or definition...
BUT, he will most definitely consider himself poor, both financially, in perceived influence and in the simple ability to do as he pleases without many questions being asked.
That pleases me greatly.
Sometimes in various threads on here, people directly point out that having been born in the UK we have effectively won the lottery of life.
Andrew won the lottery, Euro Millions (rollover) and a Daily Mail cottage in the Cotswolds.
He had it all and could (legally) have shagged pretty much anyone that he wanted to. That still wasn't enough for him.
The last episode of the BBC's Americast has an excellent interview with the US defence lawyer about Andy's options - (from about 27 mins in). The first bit is not up to their normal standards, but the interview is outstanding. It is done by someone who understands the system and what the options mean.
Worthwhile listening - BBC Americacast 13 Jan
Surprised she's still alive tbh. The Royals don't take kindly to people standing up to them and usually that only ends in tragedy ala Princess Di.
Looks like Randy Andy has been cut off.
The Royals are officially above the law so don't expect anything to happen to him other than having to pay out some of his benefit money.
Despite all this we'll still no doubt see a bunch of brainless morons with their little flags lining the streets, waiving like demented seals the next time the evil rancid hag is out on parade or one of the other oddballs in that family.
I weep for those people. Imagine being one of that lot...*shudders
Surprised she’s still alive tbh. The Royals don’t take kindly to people standing up to them and usually that only ends in tragedy ala Princess Di.
Do you not think it would start getting a bit obvious if the Royal Family had everyone killed that had crossed them?
Gobuchal - just post the link from the share button on youtube
Paraphrased from ****ter:
"Prince Andrew must really be sweating now.... or not sweating, like some kind of Schrodingers nonce"
Do you not think it would start getting a bit obvious if the Royal Family had everyone killed that had crossed them?
I am struggling to see too many downsides.
“Prince Andrew must really be sweating now…. or not sweating, like some kind of Schrodingers nonce”
ha ha ha ha
Prince Andrew loses military titles and patronages, and will no longer be called HRH
Ha ha ha
Here’s the link
BBC News - Prince Andrew loses military titles and patronages
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59987935
Well I guess that answers that question
If I understand correctly, she has to show that the Royal Lying Git
a) knew that she was being trafficked
b) that she was under the legal age for sex in the country where the sex happened
It would have been fairly easy for his legal team if he'd just admitted having sex with her to show that as he's such an entitled prick that he wouldn't question at all an attractive young woman wanting to have sex with him, he's a prince after all.
Prince Andrew loses military titles and patronages, and will no longer be called HRH
I wonder how much they'll shun him? Or will they leave him out in the cold for a bit before finding a way for him to redeem himself
Or will they leave him out in the cold for a bit before finding a way for him to redeem himself
I would think thats a lost cause. Its not really a major change from the last couple of years though since he was being hidden away anyway. Just formalising the fact there is no obvious way back.
They don't give a flying **** about what he has done, they have known for years, this has been rumbling on for over a decade.
This is about protecting the royal family from the ongoing publicity which they now fear has a realistic chance of damaging their power and influence.
They are ****ing scum.
I would think thats a lost cause. Its not really a major change from the last couple of years though since he was being hidden away anyway. Just formalising the fact there is no obvious way back.
Yep, the Royal family is actually not as out of touch as we think they are
Guessing there's a reason why having him without titles is beneficial for the current trial, can't see the Queen requesting, or Andrew handing back his titles for any other reason.
Will be interesting to see how this plays out, seems a bit of a weird timing and thing to do, unless his daughters are in line to take over, or similar?
I’m looking forward to a future series of The Crown!
HMP Nonce Andrew
With charles next for the top job there will be no way back for andrew; this fits perfectly with charles' reported wish to slim down the monarchy.
andrew's daughters aren't in line to take over anything.
So
If he loses the case(which is likely) that indicates a crime has been committed. So do the UK police then have the authority to act upon those crimes and charge him with sex offences.
It doesn't matter if he was abroad at the time, a crime committed by a British national abroad is still a crime under British law, especially sex crimes.
On the sex offenders register for sure, and forced to undertake a sex offenders course in admitting the guilt and understanding that they, not the victim are the ones at fault.
edit: bindun
If he loses the case(which is likely) that indicates a crime has been committed. So do the UK police then have the authority to act upon those crimes and charge him with sex offences.
It doesn’t matter if he was abroad at the time, a crime committed by a British national abroad is still a crime under British law, especially sex crimes.
On the sex offenders register for sure, and forced to undertake a sex offenders course in admitting the guilt and understanding that they, not the victim are the ones at fault.
The criminal threshold for evidence is much higher than the civil threshold in this trial, so unlikely, I'd have thought.
[url= https://i.postimg.cc/G35ccVNc/271838026-2187782224696098-4768821200354287873-n.jp g" target="_blank">https://i.postimg.cc/G35ccVNc/271838026-2187782224696098-4768821200354287873-n.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
With thanks to the Ullapool News
"On the sex offenders register for sure, and forced to undertake a sex offenders course in admitting the guilt and understanding that they, not the victim are the ones at fault."
There goes shelf stacking in Slough Morrisons...
Can the mods change the title of this thread as it's out-of-date😁
understanding that they, not the victim are the ones at fault
The problem with people like Maxwell, Epstein, Andrew, is that they don't even register their victims as being real humans, let alone a a victim. How can they be at fault of anything if there isn't a victim?
Their arrogance is so off the scale that their personality is skewed beyond every measure that is normal to most of us. They simply do not have the ability to care about people they regard as unconnected to, or beneath them.
If he's not prosecuted here she'll definitely be rewarded with a gong, Lady Dick.
For him to be prosecuted in the UK would need some really strong evidence coming out of the US civil case. I see it as highly unlikely
I think the most likely thing is he will refuse to engage with the US process, be found liable in his absence, refuse to pay the compensation and will never be able to leave the UK again because there will be an international arrest warrent out for him for non payment of the judgement.
Good reasoning TJ but can a civil judgement give rise to an arrest warrant?
Dunno for sure but how else do you enforce judgement? If you lose a civil case and have a cash judgement against you? maybe contempt?
good point tho
I’m struggling to see how this announcement harms him. As far as I can tell all the has happened is that he doesn’t have to do any work and isn’t allowed in the family fancy dress box on parades day. He will still be supported financially by us as I don’t supposed a navy pension can fund his general life let alone the legal bill he is running up.
The Andrew formerly known as Prince.
The problem with people like Maxwell, Epstein, Andrew, Trump, is that they don’t even register their victims as being real humans, let alone a a victim. How can they be at fault of anything if there isn’t a victim?
Their arrogance is so off the scale that their personality is skewed beyond every measure that is normal to most of us. They simply do not have the ability to care about people they regard as unconnected to, or beneath them.
FTFY.
@tjagain it's been a while but from memory you can enforce judgements in foreign jurisdictions through their courts and enforcement procedures.
you can enforce judgements in foreign jurisdictions through their courts and enforcement procedures.
That'll make for a cracking episode of "Can't pay? We'll take it away!"
chrismac - suggest you read up on how andrew is funded; start with the sovereign grant fund.
Their arrogance is so off the scale that their personality is skewed beyond every measure that is normal to most of us. They simply do not have the ability to care about people they regard as unconnected to, or beneath them.
What is normal and aren’t we all guilty of this? I mean how much do you really care about people dying in the Chinese ethnic purge? Are you shouting about this, writing to your MP, boycotting? On do you sleep soundly at night not caring about them as you don’t see yourself connected to them in the same way these people didn’t care?
dB- that's a good point and well made.
chrismac
Full Member
I’m struggling to see how this announcement harms him. As far as I can tell all the has happened is that he doesn’t have to do any work and isn’t allowed in the family fancy dress box on parades day. He will still be supported financially by us as I don’t supposed a navy pension can fund his general life let alone the legal bill he is running up.
I get where you are coming from but you have to consider what it's like for someone of his character. He just doesn't see the world through normal eyes.
He won't be poor of course but the life of jetting around the world as a playboy/ want to be power broker are gone. He'll be a social pariah, constantly on guard for anything that can be construed as further scandal. Fully aware that even those that are pleasant to his face likely despise him. Imagine someone like him seeing even just the hint of revulsion in the eyes of a servant, a mere robot put on earth to serve him. It will be a thousand deaths.
He has never known a life with restrictions in the way normal people do.
He will see it as a prison, made worse in his mind because he will genuinely believe he is the victim.
He knows there is no coming back from this, its a life sentence.
Would I sooner see him in real prison if guilty, yes but this will have to do.
Metro headline...Throne Out.
Love it.
They don’t give a flying * about what he has done, they have known for years, this has been rumbling on for over a decade.
This is about protecting the royal family from the ongoing publicity which they now fear has a realistic chance of damaging their power and influence.
They are * scum.
This
Against the grain, and he might be evil personified for all I know, but you know - evidence, an actual trial, stuff like that?
an actual trial
That’s a good idea.
bearnecessities
Full Member
Against the grain, and he might be evil personified for all I know, but you know – evidence, an actual trial, stuff like that?
Andrew seems rather unwilling to go that route.
suggest you read up on how andrew is funded; start with the sovereign grant fund.
i have and surprise surprise he is funded by us along with the rest of the royal household leeches. Only note he doesn’t have to do anything in return