[Closed] Praying outside Marie Stopes Clinic

anti-abortionists?

I said a silent prayer before going into a Marie Stopes clinic, but that was another thing.

I assume they are Christians against abortion and are praying for the unborn lives being terminated.

You could always ask them, I suspect they'd be [i]delighted[/i] to tell you what they're doing there.

They are praying for all the souls going to hell.

Regardless of your belief in the power of prayer, i'm pretty sure that location is irrelevant.

Surely they'd be equally effective if they were sat praying in Starbucks or the pub?

Only thing worth praying for in Starbucks is better coffee

Only thing worth praying for in Starbucks is better coffee

On a completely unrelated note, am I the only one who insists to the staff in Starbucks that my name is Costa so they need to write it on the cup.

I'm not even Greek.

Isn't it rude to interrupt people in prayer?

Probably ruder for those standing outside an abortion clinic to force beliefs and judge others, TBH...

DrP

Morons, It is not a back and white issue, there are conditions which are diagnosed in-utero which can lead to a short but painful life if carried to term. Which is better no suffering or a short but painful life having been carried to term by a mother aware that her child will have a short but painful life? dicks.

Tell em to move to Utah and all their dreams will come true..

dicks

I'm not sure that assuming they're dicks is altogether fair if all they're doing is praying outside on the street. And just because they're praying doesn't mean that they all see abortion as a black and white issue.

I would agree if they were acting inappropriately by in any way harassing or distressing anyone, but beyond that I think you might be being a bit harsh.

[url= https://www.mariestopes.org.uk/ ]Not much Googling gets you the answer[/url]

While we can't assume what they think about abortion, I've always thought that prayer was a private thing. As perchypanther has already pointed out, you could pray for unborn children at home or in church or on top of a hill. Doing it right outside an abortion clinic could be interpreted more as a political rather than prayerful message which is a bit disingenuous, I feel.

its intended to intimidate.
they used to hold demos but this got banned so now its prayer meetings

its intended to intimidate.
they used to hold demos but this got banned so now its prayer meetings

Yay! Another religion bashing thread.

awesumz.

I've been to ICU a few times, but I've never seen them outside one.

Not sure prayer can help on ITU, unlike noradrenaline.

Do they just stand there praying out loud? Each to their own, but that just strikes me as slightly demented. I think it was Bill Hicks who said "if you're so pro life, go and pray outside a cemetery" and I couldn't agree more with that sentiment.

I don't hang around churches telling them how stupid believing in a Sky man is. I doubt they would like it if I did either.

neal - when they do reprehensible things they deserve it and a campaign of intimidation outside abortion clinics is reprehensible

telling them how stupid believing in a Sky man is

😀 😀 😀

And we're off!

sad people trying to enforce their ignorance on others

I didnt notice any when I went in to get my tubes tied b4 xmas

after all....

Well said tj.

It's these sort of people that give religion a bad name. I'm not religious, but have nothing against people believing whatever they want to believe. What I don't like is people using their beliefs in an attempt to intimidate or undermine others.

Somebody above described them as dicks. What they are doing is really dickish, so yes they are dicks. Same as I'd be a dick if I spent my Sunday's outside the local church clutching a copy of the God Delusion and muttering about the ludicrous nature of religion.

when they do reprehensible things they deserve it and a campaign of intimidation [s]outside abortion clinics[/s] at legally operating hunts is reprehensible

when they do reprehensible things they deserve it and a campaign of intimidation outside [s]abortion clinics [/s] a political party conference reprehensible

Does it only apply to certain a certain category of "campaign of intimidation"?

Praying certainly seems less reprehensible than spitting at, punching, ripping shit up and wearing balaclavas.

telling them how stupid believing in a Sky man is

Could be worse, could be a Sky woman. People believing in Kay Burley need help.

(I'll fetch my coat 😀 )

Nope. Hunts are breaking the law continuously thus are fair targets. they also regularly attack hunt sabs. Poor example. You could put it as protesting outside military bases as a better equivalent but even then its not as you are not intimidating people in a fragile state of mind

Religion is like a penis. Its fine to have one or not have one. Its fine to be proud of it and to enjoy it. Its not acceptable to attempt to stuff it down the throat of everyone you meet

breaking the law continuously

Hyperbolic rubbish is Hyperbolic.

Religion is like a penis. Its fine to have one or not have one. Its fine to be proud of it and to enjoy it. Its not acceptable to attempt to stuff it down the throat of everyone you meet

Or to get it out in public and wave it around 🙂

when they do reprehensible things they deserve it and a campaign of intimidation outside abortion clinics at legally operating hunts is reprehensible

when they do reprehensible things they deserve it and a campaign of intimidation outside abortion clinics a political party conference reprehensible

Does it only apply to certain a certain category of "campaign of intimidation"?
Praying certainly seems less reprehensible than spitting at, punching, ripping shit up and wearing balaclavas.

Sorry man but you are a mile away from a decent analogy here.

To suggest that women having abortions are legitimate targets for protest is mind-boggling.

While we can't assume what they think about abortion

Praying certainly seems less reprehensible than spitting at, punching, ripping shit up and wearing balaclavas.

TBH I think they have the right to protest the problem is they often stray into just abusing people at a very difficult time and this means that their right to protest has to be slightly curtailed as it will cause GENUINE distress

Very few folk will see abortion as a clear cut black and white issue

CFH - there is no doubt at all the vast majority of hunts break the law deliberatly and continuously and the hunt sabs have a good record of exposing them. From assaults on sabs to cubbing to killing foxes with a pack of hounds to allowing their hounds on land they have no right to be on to hounds attacking family pets.

want chapter and verse?

I'll tell you what - you name a hunt and I bet I find good evidence of illegal activity ( you will probably find one that doesn't break the law 😉 - there must be some)

I think they have the right to protest the problem is they often stray into just abusing people at a very difficult time and this means that their right to protest has to be slightly curtailed as it will cause GENUINE distress

Very few folk will see abortion as a clear cut black and white issue

Yep, that's about it. If it's just prayers, as per the OP, I fail to see the problem.

those boarding day years were tough werent they.

Ok, Devil's advocate time.

If you really really believed that babies were being murdered somewhere, wouldn't you want to do anything you could to try and stop it?

CFH - you may fail to see the problem but many of us can see it. Prayer is inherently offensive to some hence it should be a private affair not public and the only intention here is to intimidate and upset people. If the prayer is to save the lives of the fetuses then it does not have to be outside the clinic does it - god listens everywhere

Only thing worth praying for in Starbucks is better coffee

That's going to need a miracle, not just prayer.

And just when I was agreeing with you, you have to say something pointlessly shit.

Fair enough, Junky! 🙂

TJ, if we stopped doing everything that's "offensive to some" we'd never leave the house. On the scale of offensive, someone praying is hardly offensive. It's just a way of expressing a point of view. As before, stepping beyond prayer is where it becomes a problem, but prayer per se isn't.

I find brown shoes with a suit offensive. Should we ban that?

Reductio ad absurdum, but the point is, where do we stop stopping things?

Or to get it out in public and wave it around

When the intention is to intimidate adn upset folk then its unacceptable - mind you brown shoes? Unless you are in tweed of course and knee deep in mud and dogs

is offensive to some hence it should be a private affair

If that's the case, where does it end?

The people going into the clinics have enough pain and hurt without the condescending judgmental prayer of these muppets.

CFH your analogy is poor because the protesters at hunts and parliament etc are "punching up" at assumed power and privilege, protesters at abortion clinics are "punching down" from a position of moral superiority at people in painful and difficult situations.

I can't imagine this thread would have the same responses in the US.

If they are not trying to guilt trip people who must already feel a huge emotional burden then what are they doing there? if anybody can put forward a plausible reason I'm willing to listen. Are they praying for the women who are having abortions? For the aborted fetuses? Do they therefore assume that either choose to follow their particular deity?

In my eyes it is indefensible, hurtful behaviour that is conducted solely to cause distress to those who must already be distressed. A selfish dick move of the highest order.

I know someone who turned around and walked away from an abortion clinic because of religious protest outside. She now has an 18 year old daughter.

From their perspective, that protest/prayer/presence would be deemed a success

The problem is that they are not protesting the general issue, they're personalising the protest by targeting individuals. The fact that many of those individuals may be in a vulnerable state makes the protestors' behaviour even worse.
This is not an act of private worship, it's a public attempt to intimidate people who are going about their lawful business.

If they are not trying to guilt trip people who must already feel a huge emotional burden then what are they doing there? if anybody can put forward a plausible reason I'm willing to listen. Are they praying for the women who are having abortions? For the aborted fetuses? Do they therefore assume that either choose to follow their particular deity?

I imagine that they are praying for the souls of the foetus and the mother who is committing a mortal sin in their view. Further I guess the aim of doing it publicly is to get people to see the light and change their mind.

I don't think you can pick and choose who has the right to demonstrate in a free society - either they do or they don't. Someone finding the act of praying offensive beggars belief.

If you really really believed that babies were being murdered somewhere, wouldn't you want to do anything you could to try and stop it?

I'd inform the police if I thought the law was being broken, because I don't think vigilantism is the solution.

Like I said - they believe babies are being murdered. What would you do if you thought that were happening somewhere? How do you feel about honour killings or say female genital mutiliation? If you knew there were places doing that near you would you just back off respectfully?

In my eyes it is indefensible, hurtful behaviour

And in their eyes, abortions are much worse than that.

I don't think you can pick and choose who has the right to demonstrate in a free society - either they do or they don't. Someone finding the act of praying offensive beggars belief.

I don't think anyone has suggested people don't have the right to demonstrate against abortion.

I don't think anyone has suggested the act of praying is offensive.

I think it is wrong to conduct public prayer meetings that are specifically intended to intimidate individuals who are lawfully providing or using reproductive health services.

Like I said - they believe babies are being murdered. What would you do if you thought that were happening somewhere? How do you feel about honour killings or say female genital mutiliation? If you knew there were places doing that near you would you just back off respectfully?

I'd inform the police if I thought the law was being broken, because I don't think vigilantism is the solution.

Killing (of any sort) and FGM is illegal in the UK.

attempt to intimidate people who are going about their [b]lawful[/b] business.

Interesting choice of words.

Elsewhere in the world abortion is illegal, and people protest against that.

Or substitute abortion for anything from smoking cannabis, equality for women, to homosexuality. Legality and morality are seldom the same thing.

And even people see things on a sliding scale, some things are blatantly (IMO) none of the laws business (oppression of homosexuality and women), others become an issue of protecting people from themselves (drugs) and each other (abortion*).

*im pro choice, but frankly glad its not one I have to ever make because I don't think I could personally regardless of the circumstances. So I'm sticking my head in the sand and lumping it in with homosexuality and oppression of women as none of the law's business.

Maybe they're praying for simple, succesful procedures.

Mmm. Me, I revere the right to faith, the right to choice and the right to protest. But abortion can be a traumatic enough experience without having ****s outside making it worse out of spite. Because that's what it is- if the point was just to pray, prayer has a range greater than 100 feet. The point is to make things worse for the people using the clinic. So **** them.

If you really really believed that babies were being murdered somewhere, wouldn't you want to do anything you could to try and stop it?

I think you're sidestepping the point there scotroutes.

Killing (of any sort) and FGM is illegal in the UK.

Indeed. And these people believe killing is happening.

What if you thought that something awful was happening and yet wasn't illegal?

What if you thought that something awful was happening and yet wasn't illegal?

Like what?

molgrips - go after the lawmakers? Petitions, lobby mps, get scientific evidence on your side?

Interesting choice of words

It is legal to provide and use licensed abortion services in the UK, hence "lawful business".

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-09-19/anti-abortion-protester-to-appeal-conviction-under-tasmanian-law/7856290

A simpler law based on the don't be a dick rule. An exclusion zone for people wanting to protest ie you can't come and harrass people especially if they having a difficult emotional time.
And yes quietly muttering outside is a protest and it's being done at that place for the reasons to be seen by the people there.
All in it's not very christian is it.

Like I said - they believe babies are being murdered. What would you do if you thought that were happening somewhere? How do you feel about honour killings or say female genital mutiliation? If you knew there were places doing that near you would you just back off respectfully?

Not analogous at all, in the case of infanticide, honour killing or FGM I suspect you'll find that almost 100% of the population would agree with you, it's also illegal under U.K. Law and not part of any historical or cultural tradition we have.

For abortion you'd be out of step with the opinion of 93% of the population and also current U.K. Law.

Someone finding the act of praying offensive beggars belief.

I don't find it offensive. I think, in this particular situation, it is being done to intimidate and / or upset. I have personal beliefs, but I don't hang around places that don't share them whilst talking quietly with a group of like minded individuals.

All in it's not very christian is it.

That's bang on the money

It's not about finding prayer offensive or denying the right to protest. Prayer is a private conversation with God. If you're doing it outside an abortion clinic, you're doing it as either a protest or in judgement of others. Therefore it is not a prayer.

My old lodger does this. Funny how it's almost always men protesting/praying. Funilly enough he did nothing to support children that were alive and living in poverty, did nothing for kids at his church, did nothing for kids around the world. But that's the joy of religion, you can force your prejudice onto others and blame you imaginary friend. Personally I think harassing vulnerable women over his religious beliefs makes him a terrorist.

And in their eyes, abortions are much worse than that.

Unfortunately the revised version of their manual for living as laid down by the CEO says:

"Judge not lest ye yourselves be judged"

Those praying are not Christians as a result. Yes I am aware of the irony of my statement but I have chosen to no longer follow that particular path due to the hypocrisy inherent in organised religion. My god is in the landscape and the company of family good friends.

So a few people are holding bibles and rosary beads and as the OP put it "mumbling" in prayer (spit)

From this we LEAP to
morons
reprehensible
intimidation
offensive
****s
spite!.....

😉 brilliantly done.

I'm not condemning the whole of Christianity in my opinion above. It's stating the obvious but there are plenty of good decent people both inside and outside of Christianity. And a minority of judgemental folk inside and outside too.

It's not as black and white as you paint it, teamhurtmore. I haven't called them reprehensible, spiteful, offensive, or dicks, but what they are doing is not prayer either (going my my understanding of what prayer is). Anyway, God will be the judge..

No just the vile ones who aren't even praying, merely [s]Mumbling[/s] protesting and judging. Do you think that they are using the rosary beads to count how many people are going in or as a weapon of intimidataion?

Perhaps the police should be called to deal with the "protest" as it sounds awful. Why is this kind of thing "tolerated"?

Edit: perhaps he will, perhaps he won't. Depende on whether he exists or not, doesn't it?

(not suggesting that those words are attributed to you personally Vicky 😉 )

honour killing or FGM I suspect you'll find that almost 100% of the population would agree with you, it's also illegal under U.K. Law and not part of any historical or cultural tradition we have.

Ok so maybe you aren't in the UK then? You are hiding behind the legality aspect as if UK law is the guardian of morality and truth in the world.

It's a bit like standing outside a nursing home in a black cloak with a scythe - just a not very nice thing to do to vulnerable people.

I wonder what the Venn diagram of abortion protesters and anti-sex education people looks like?

I'm sure we can all take a moment to ask that God will help some of those on this thread realise their errors and follow him more closely.

Nothing beats a bit of passive aggressive prayer.

thm- I'm not sure I follow your last post. I don't think they are vile and I don't think the police should be called. They have a right to protest, but I believe there are more appropriate times and places to do that. And I don't agree that what they are doing is genuine prayer. Oh, they might be using rosary beads and saying all the right words but it's not prayer in my book.
Edit- just seen martinhutch's description. I agree- it's passive aggressive prayer which isn't actually prayer.

Gave a large blast on my air horn while riding past the ones at the top of Whitfield street. They were so deep in prayer that only one of them jumped out of his skin.

Gave a large blast on my air horn while riding past the ones at the top of Whitfield street. They were so deep in prayer that only one of them jumped out of his skin.

That was a naughty thing to do - have you not read Revelation on the subject of horns? Now they'll be expecting hail and fire, mixed with blood to start raining down.

Now they'll be expecting hail and fire, mixed with blood to start raining down.

But will they be upset when it doesn't ?

vickypea - don't feed the troll

There are plenty of instances of public prayer in Christian worship so your personal definition is too narrow in my view. But that is a diversion, even if their presence is intimidating that is hardly unique among demonstrations, so I just find it very difficult to see how you can argue others have the right to demonstrate without being hypocritical.

Peter Tatchell was very good on this when the "Christian Cake" appeal was lost - see [url= https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/feb/01/gay-cake-row-i-changed-my-mind-ashers-bakery-freedom-of-conscience-religion ]here.[/url]

Too narrow - to suit a different narrative?

I shudder the think what might happen if the reprehensible few moved on from aggressive mumbling. Would all "hell" break lose?

Ok so maybe you aren't in the UK then? You are hiding behind the legality aspect as if UK law is the guardian of morality and truth in the world.

So you accept that the analogy is irrelevant for the UK then?

And no I'm not hiding behind the Legality aspect, I'm pointing out that both UK law and the will of the majority are in complete agreement, you appear to have spectacularly missed that.