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Slight distraction
Here she earns ~£120k there she would earn equivalent to approx £1.75m
That's a huge difference but then their property price is also extremely expensive beyond ordinary mortals as was seen recently when their PM banned non-resident from buying property there.
Everything is more expensive there if I can recall.
UK is cold enough, I will freeze to death in the Canadian winter.
Do NHS staff still get their gold plated final salary pensions and early retirement (55?) perks or is that all a thing of the past?
Not even close to that.
In fact, I'm pretty sure the NHS has ever had the early retirement at 55 thing. The pension isn't bad but it's not the amazing gold plated pension that some parts of the press would have you believe.
Do NHS staff still get their gold plated final salary pensions and early retirement (55?) perks or is that all a thing of the past?
Don't think a FS pension has been offered to new recruits since about 2015, and only people who were relatively close to retirement avoided being moved to that scheme. Don't believe that the 2015 scheme offers any early retirement benefits which would make it 'gold plated'.
I think we'd be hearing a lot more about it from government types if these benefits still existed.
I take your point and broadly agree with it, but the key word here is “are” and not “were.” Can we compare Labour of today with Labour 10, 15, 20 years ago?
Probably! Members of my family still go on about how Blair was basically a tory in a red tie, not really Labour, said any old shite to get elected, a total letdown to the left etc etc.
And 25 years on, many people say exactly the same about Starmer...
...and don't forget that those lucky enough to still get the good FS pension are paying in a _lot_ to bank it.
Do NHS staff still get their gold plated final salary pensions and early retirement (55?) perks or is that all a thing of the past?
No.
NHS Nurse started 1999 have a frozen segment of final salary I csn take at 60 but the rest is based on average earnings I take at 67.
I had a fairly significant breakdown due to work stress so now work part time.
Last time I looked I'd get about £400 per month on the original (as gold plated as it gets) scheme, no idea for the later one.
My wife qualified in the early 2000's. All her pension is the later scheme so she will retire at 67.
Probably! Members of my family still go on about how Blair was basically a tory in a red tie, not really Labour, said any old shite to get elected, a total letdown to the left etc etc.
And 25 years on, many people say exactly the same about Starmer…
Blair (and Brown) is the only Labour PM in the living memory of probably over half the country.
Better to be inside the tent pissing out.
On the private vs NHS front I'm seriously looking to move to private for the first time ever.
I work in LD/Mental Health and most qualified nursing jobs in this part of the world are offered by Cygnet Healthcare, part of the Universal Group, an American Health and Insurance corporation.
They now provide the bulk of mental health beds and are still expanding.
They are pretty unethical in their business practices and you will have seen them on Panorama a few times.
However, colleagues who have moved there report they feel better regarded and better paid than in the NHS.
I think they're offering a significant golden handshake too at the moment.
and don’t forget that those lucky enough to still get the good FS pension are paying in a _lot_ to bank it.
Aye but don't also forget, they are being paid it in order to bank it and (presumably) it's matched (at least) by the employer.
So to summarise, pension paid on average earnings currently paid out at 67. Is that right? Any options for earlier retirement?
I've always worked in the Private Sector and have two pensions. One is Final Salary paid from 55 which I've taken. The other is Defined Contribution again available from 55. Ironically (?) the second Pension Pot is vastly bigger than the first but the payout is much much lower so I've left it be.
Even an average earnings pension is a significant benefit and going to be worth hanging onto when compared to DC.
Am I right in thinking contributions are 10%/10% employee/employer or is it different now?
NHS pensions have been changed and downgraded significantly. they now cost more for less
the only folk who could retire at 55 without penalty was mental health officers ( senior nurses with a legal role) who were given that as a perk when it was impossible to recruit
My NHS pension I paid 11% ( IIRC)of my salery for a final salery pension based on the best of my last 3 years and each year worked full time up to 40 years was a 80th of that salery. I could take it at 60 without penalty. Very good but hardly gold plated. The average NHS pension is under £10 000 pa including the high paid staff. Mine is £550 a month. I entered nursing knowing the salery would never be great but knowing I would always be able to get work and would have a decent pension
There have been two downgrades since then
Its now career average, 60ths and cannot be taken without penalty until 67. Its nothing like as good a deal as it was. Under the new system I would be getting less than 300 per month
Any options for earlier retirement?
Yes - but you get a much smaller pension. (actuarial adjustment)
Thanks for that TJ. As I said, not trying to be a smart arse but sometimes people 'forget' it's not always about the headline salary figures.
Clearly, the benefits that were in place have been seriously diluted. That's also true in the Private Sector with the work of the devil that is the DC pension. I still can't believe how little mine will pay compared to my Final Salary one which I stopped paying into ~20 years ago ie when my salary was a lot less than my terminal one.
Ho hum, I suppose we're all doomed...
I always said that NHS terms and conditions including pensions were worth 20% on top of salary. So instead of your £30 000 pa job in the NHS you would need £36000 in the private sector to match up
don't forget sick pay and holiday pay as well although both of them are also less for new entrants
Members of my family still go on about how Blair was basically a tory in a red tie, not really Labour, said any old shite to get elected, a total letdown to the left etc etc.
Whether that’s true or not (in the main I think it is) the NHS was improved under Blair/Brown (waiting times down, better outcomes for more people, rising satisfaction with the care given), where as under Cameron/Clegg/Osbourne May/Hammond Johnson/Javid/Sunak and, er whoever was next, and now Sunak/Hunt…
Whether that’s true or not (in the main I think it is) the NHS was improved under Blair/Brown (waiting times down, better outcomes for more people, rising satisfaction with the care given)
Yes - and the best paid I ever was but they did start the effing about with our pensions cutting them and also continued to saddle us with stupid expensive and limiting PPI contracts for new hospitals
ERI in particular is a complete scandal. After 25 years and huge profits to the private companies we still will not own the hospital. NOr are the buildings properly fit for purpose.
https://inews.co.uk/news/nhs-crisis-workers-staff-injustice-patients-not-safe-2068929
NHS workers describe ‘revolving door of injustice’ and say ‘it doesn’t feel safe for my patients right now’
FIRST PERSON
Frontline health staff tell i how the NHS is on its knees during the busiest winter they have ever experienced
@dangerousbeans illustrates exactly what I’m saying. I’m sure you would much rather STAY workING inside the NHS But it’s hard to continue to do that at your own personal financial, physical and mental expense when you could do the same job in a more pleasant environment for the same or more money....
Don't forget that public sector pensions are going to be raided continuously, again and again, until they are pretty much DC schemes in all but name. The USS pension scheme I signed up to <2 years ago has already been revalued on an actuarial basis whilst I've been there. This will continue.
10%/10% employee/employer or is it different now?
I pay 12.5%, for a pension that is half a version that penalises me for taking it before 67, and half that penalises me for taking it after 60. I have literally no idea whether this ridiculous situation can be fixed. Probably not. Thriving bar stewards.
I have no idea about the ‘employer contribution’ but as it’s just the government basically shuffling made up numbers around, it’s irrelevant. There’s no pot anyway, my contributions just go to the treasury, and the treasury pays out the pensions. It’s all smoke and mirror bullshit.
There’s no pot anyway, my contributions just go to the treasury, and the treasury pays out the pensions. It’s all smoke and mirror bullshit.
And would be illegal if offered by a pension provider in the UK
If you were daft enough, are you able to liberate your pot and reinvest elsewhere?
I know you wouldn't (unless insane) but if you could, the employers theoretical contribution £/% becomes important in valuing your lump value. I thought they 'contribute' (I know there's no real contribution and no pot) more than the employee so ~15% presumably.
You can take it out and you get a nominal sum
Mine was worth £125000 at retirement according to the papers I got. That would equate to the employer matching my contributions roughly given indexing for inflation / payrises
Of course in reality my benefit is worth far more than that I would think Someone will be able to say. Pension is £6600pa ( index linked?)
Do NHS staff still get their gold plated final salary pensions and early retirement (55?) perks or is that all a thing of the past?
10%/10% employee/employer or is it different now?
I've got a friend who was surprised that I have to pay anything at all into it, he thought it was a free perk!
Almost everyone is on the 2015 scheme now.
Employee contributions for that are
Tier______Pensionable pay (whole time equivalent)______Contribution rate from 1 April 2015
1 Up to £15,431.99 5.0%
2 £15,432.00 to £21,477.99 5.6%
3 £21,478.00 to £26,823.99 7.1%
4 £26,824.00 to £47,845.99 9.3%
5 £47,846.00 to £70,630.99 12.5%
6 £70,631.00 to £111,376.99 13.5%
7 £111,377.00 and over 14.5%
The employing Trust will pay in 14.38% and NHS England* adds another 6%. Although as V8ninety says, it's a cost to the Trust but doesn't actually go into a pot with your name on it.
Retirement age will be 67.
None of it is secret, there's a Member Guide PDF here: https://www.nhsbsa.nhs.uk/member-hub/understanding-your-benefits-2015-scheme
In this Scheme the build up rate is 1/54th, so you earn a pension each year of 1/54th of
your pensionable earnings. For example, if you earn £18,000 in a year you would earn a pension
for that year of 1/54th of £18,000, which is £333 (rounded down for illustration purposes only).
This is the pension you would build up for that year.
It's not awful (I don't think) but it's not gold plated and nobody is going to be swanning off at 55 after ~30 years of work with an annual pension equivalent to a full years salary (which is what lots of people think a 'final salary pension' is!).
*Presumably in England only, before TJ corrects me 😉
I don't know how they organise an "employers contribution"
As above - its all smoke and mirrors anyway. The government treats our contributions as tax to spend then we build up a pension according to years of service
If all NHS pension funds had been put into a pot it would be huge - far bigger than most investment funds.
its in surplus in that still we pay out less each year than the staff pay in
Lots of lies have been spread about NHS pensions that too many have swallowed like this theoretical huge liability that is worked out as if no one ever makes any more contributions and everyone in the NHS retires tomorrow
its been a classic divide and conquer and far too many folk swallowed it.
I don’t know how they organise an “employers contribution”
The trust paying the staff will have to pay NHS Pension Authority the 14.38% every month. So it's a cost to your local hospital.
Thanks for that info. It's important as it gives an indication of the value to the employee even though no one would ever choose to exit (unless needing £££££££'s quickly to pay off their drug dealer/loan sharks etc).
An employers contribution of ~20% is extraordinary for worker bees. I know it's all a bit theoretical as it's treated like general taxation and' 'wasted' on all the stuff Govts spend money on.
JUlie had a job in a charity where she paid 15% and the employer 25% of salary.
Blimey. I'm more used to it being matched at around 10 - 15% each (private sector).
another wee point about nurses pensions
Very few will make it to 67 IMO. there is no way I would have done. If my retirement age was 67 I would by now be medically retired or on invalidity from damage mental and physical from the job at nearly 62.
Don't forget it's actually linked to state pension age, so for many staff, including myself it'll be 68 and for younger colleagues probably higher
As an aside those pension rules apply to teaching, policing and other public sectors. Bobby on the beat at 66? Nurse moving patients at 66? Teaching at 66? There's going to be a lot of death in service.
Do NHS staff still get their gold plated final salary pensions and early retirement (55?) perks or is that all a thing of the past?
Never did. That said I’m going at 55 but I’ll take a huge hit, at that point though I’d have paid in for nearly 40 years. It’s a good pension but not gold plated and it costs me a lot to pay in. It’s a nice thing to have but not sure it makes up for anything.
As an aside those pension rules apply to teaching, policing and other public sectors. Bobby on the beat at 66? Nurse moving patients at 66? Teaching at 66?
67 or 68 actually not sure it applies to police yet but that was the aim. its absurd
There’s going to be a lot of death in service.
Which won't pay out much, as it declines with each year of service.
Blimey. I’m more used to it being matched at around 10 – 15% each (private sector).
My private sector max match is 4.5%, my previous job was 7%. But I earn good money. It sounds like the NHS pension does not do enough to offset the poor money and conditions.
And as good as the benefit may be in 30 years time, you can't pay today's bills with your stashed away pension.
And as said above, how many nurses, paramedics, healthcare assistants (and firefighters, police officers, prison officers) etc are going to still be working at 67+ and therefore able to take their pension without penalties?
If you retire on grounds of illhealth there are two levels of provision. If you cannot work in any field again you get your pension without actuarial adjustment. If you can never work in that particular role again but could in others then you get your pension but with the actuarial adjustment ie penalty
IMO most nurses will be retiring early on health grounds. There is no way mentally or physically I could have done another 7 years but I would probably have been in the second category. Back injury and arthritis in my feet both as a result of my job