potential gas leak - will I die?

see that phone number on sticker, call that and say you think you can smell gas.

Have you got a canary?

The battery operated gas detector that he has ordered from Amazon is reusable.

And very usefully does the reverse if it smells gas - it makes a noise.

Light a candle and wander around the house wafting it about near gas pipes and appliances. If you blow up then there might be a leak 👍

And very usefully does the reverse if it smells gas – it makes a noise.

Haha! yeah, I figured for £20 its a handy thing to have anyway... have you seen the price of parrots, these days?

But more seriously...if there is a leak it seems like it's very small?, I cant smell any gas...so hopefully with the new device I can pinpoint it to the meter or a connection to the meter, or maybe the connection on the cooker, etc.

I'd be inclined to just ring up the help number and tell them what you've told us. I'm willing to bet they'll be out to check with their own super duper sniffer rather than just fob you off with a "it'll be reet"!

although you turned boiler off, are you sure there isn't a pilot light on it, depends how old the boiler is?

That is a tiny amount - 1/1000 of a cu m = 1ltr. By comparison for cooking and a heating in a 3 bedroom house I use about 3000ltrs per day (3 cu m)  If there was a leak I'd have thought it would be more than that, but equally worth knowing what the cause is.

That is a tiny amount – 1/1000 of a cu m = 1ltr.

Well, exactly.. I thought it sounded like a tiny amount, so I figured I'd buy that little detector thing to see if I can sniff out a leak on the meter etc.

It's a fairly modern combi boiler, so no pilot light, but I've cut the electric to it, so it can't call for any gas, as I have read that even modern ones can use a tiny bit of gas, on a sparodic basis to keep the boilers internals warm and ready, so to speak.

Get a soapy water solution made up in a spray bottle and start by checking your connections with the gas on. Also we use draeger meters in work (LPG plant) that don't always pick up gas and they are professional ones.

even just now, I just checked and the meter has gone up a tiny bit more...

It's a mechanical meter so it can't be an adjustment for the standing charge...?

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So Just from this morning I've gone from .374 to .3765 ish.

AS leak you cannot smell is unlikely to be dangerous I would have thought.  A manometer is very sensitive in sussing out leaks - I have used one and they are easy.

As above - soapy water spray on likely joints / fittings to find the actual leak.

When the electricians come back to finish the testing get them to do a proper job of the main tails that are just hanging down from the db to the meter, that’s crap!

Call transco out (Number on the meter) they will come and do a proper job of finding the leak.

When I was doing my gas safe training, my tutor said the small leaks were the most deadly, A big leak and you smell, or even hear the gas leaking, turn everything off and get out.... small leaks you dont notice until it builds up to the LEL (lower explosive limit) and then your house, and your neighbours house disapear, in a fireball.

Turn the gas off at the meter isolation, and get them out to sort it

When the electricians come back to finish the testing get them to do a proper job of the main tails that are just hanging down from the db to the meter, that’s crap!

Thanks..yeah .. the electricians have already reported it to the grid as they are only allowed to work on 'my side' of the electric meter.

They already told me how dodgy it was so it's not a huge concern of mine, I just have to wait for the 'national grid' to un-shag the dodgy bits I think?

AS leak you cannot smell is unlikely to be dangerous I would have thought.

As heavier than air it seeks the lowest point, which may not just be the cellar or space beneath the floorboards, but possibly even the earth below that.

So best thing to do is indeed to call the gas board and have them come out forthwith to check, as they would be the best at detecting any leaks, than a bucket of soapy water or a sensitive nose.

I wouldn't wait for any gas detection device, but ring them without delay.

Electricity and gas, especially gas, are best left in the hands of these professionals.

Just ring that number on the front and tell them what you’ve told us. You won’t be putting anyone out, it’s their job to make sure you (and your neighbours) are safe.

regarding the electricity all appears in hand, I had similar when I moved in and the DNO were out quite promptly to bring it all up to scratch. Although I think my spark recommended using the words “dangerous” and “emergency” to ensure a prompt response.

Although I think my spark recommended using the words “dangerous” and “emergency” to ensure a prompt response.

And my parrot has just died.

Christ. Stop hanging about and just call the number on the meter, that's what they're there for. Even a small leak could accumulate in a pocket of the house somewhere.

than a bucket of soapy water or a sensitive nose.

Hence why I've bought an electronic testing device.. If I can narrow down where any leak is concentrated then I'll be there pre-armed if they try to say that the leak is in my side of the system.

The potential leak is so small that I don't want any drongo from the gas company turning up and simply blaming the problem on my side of the pipe work, if you know what I mean!

It's probably just a weeping gasket on the meter or the shut-off valve.

I'd like to arm myself with a bit more information first..

Thread like this do amuse me.
OP - “I may have a small gas leak”
Everyone - “that could be bad, thankfully there’s a number on the meter to get the professionals in to identify and fix the issue, do it now”
OP - “yeah, no. I’ve bought this and I think it could be that”
Everyone - “no, call the number, get it sorted”
OP - “yeah, but maybe I could …”
Everyone - “Call. The. Number.”
OP - “Err…”

Hence why I’ve bought an electronic testing device.. If I can narrow down where any leak is concentrated then I’ll be there pre-armed if they try to say that the leak is in my side of the system.

I thought you said that if you turn the valve off then it stops moving? If the meter is ticking, then it's going through the meter and for that to be happening it must be going somewhere beyond. Ergo, it's your side. I suppose it could be a weeping seal on the pipework directly at the meter in which case smell it, if it isn't it's going somewhere else.

FFS call the gas board

Any leak is supplier side surely, just call them out, it's free (possibly a faulty meter).

Thanks..yeah .. the electricians have already reported it to the grid as they are only allowed to work on ‘my side’ of the electric meter.

they are on you side. Those 2 grey wires they have just left hanging should be properly clipped in place.

Thing is.. It's a *really small* discrepancy and might be a dodgy meter as it's mechanical.

Thing is ' it's there , and even if you're 99.9 % sure that 0.1 % of sitting in jail thinking about your 10m diameter bombhole would bother me.

Thread like this do amuse me.

It's not an uncommon theme.

"I'd like some advice."

Sure, here's some free advice.

"No no, I'd like advice which reassures me that my already entrenched opinion is correct."

... and as others have said,

If the meter turns when the supply is on and stops when you shut it off, you've very obviously got gas which is going somewhere.

might be a dodgy meter as it’s mechanical

Why would a dodgy meter stop when you shut off the supply?  What does "mechanical" have to do with anything?

I don't know, but if I were a betting man I'd hazard that an over-reading meter would be illegal.  Rather, a failing meter would/should under-read.

If, (when) your call that gas emergency number, they'll come and do a pressure drop test. If it fails, they shut off and lock the supply, they don't fix the problem.

A 20 quid gas detector won't locate a leak like that.

Thing is ‘ it’s there , and even if you’re 99.9 % sure that 0.1 % of sitting in jail thinking about your 10m diameter bombhole would bother me.

Explosion initiated when the postman rang the bell delivering the gas detection device.

Just to echo the already excellent advice.

Call the number. Detail everything you have said here. They don't pi$$ about when it comes to potential gas leaks. They also have much better deterction equipment than a 20 quid detctor of unknown heritage from Amazon.

Additionally, I saw it mentioned above but wanted to clarify, no meter whether it is mechanical or digital will do anything to adjust the actual unit consumption for standing charge.

When the electricians come back to finish the testing get them to do a proper job of the main tails that are just hanging down from the db to the meter, that’s crap!

+1

@mattyfez the service is free and IME they will fix supply-side problems there and then. I've had a new anaconda hose, a new gas meter and a new fibre washer on a gas fire over the years, all free. Don't mess around with gas

Call 0800 111 999 now and stop messing about. Gas is dangerous. They will come out and isolate (for free) if its dangerous. Then you can fix by whoever whenever. When i had them out they did all they could to help me. You cant legally work on gas so that sniffers useless anyway. Time to stop playing, the answer is that it takes a relatively small volume of gas (5 to 15% methane in air) to be flammable. So call. Now.

You are allowed a permitted drop with a tightness test on an existing gas installation providing there is no smell of gas.
if I remember correctly explosive limit of natural gas is 5-15% concentration in air, usually you smell it at 2%. It is not heavier than air, LPG is, not natural gas.
Do not use soapy water it is corrosive.
call a gas engineer if you are worried.

Call

The

****ing

Number

On

The

Meter

Call 0800 111 999 now and stop messing about.

I think the problem is that mattyfez wants to find the leak for himself first. I get the impression that he doesn't totally trust them to be truthful.

"I’d like to arm myself with a bit more information first"

I had this about 5 months ago. I called the gas board, they need to respond within 2hrs, they were there in around 1hr. The guy used a sniff test tool and detected a tiny background seepage from the old meter, they contain an old rubber gasket that can perish with age. He changed the gasket and applied new sealant, problem solved. CALL THE GAS BOARD.

“I’d like to arm myself with a bit more information first”

Yep. It's a bit stupid mind. What's the gas man going to say that you're worried about?

When you turn the valve off it stops.

Turn the valve on and there's gas going somewhere even though nothing's using it.

Do I

1/ buy a meter off Amazon*, and use my zero knowledge of gas systems to try to trace it when it could be anywhere

2/ Phone a number and get an expert there for free in a matter of a couple of hours.

* of dubious quality / sensitivity. I just had a look on Screwfix who I'd consider a 'reliable' supplier and the cheapest NG detector they sell of the same style as the Amazon one is 3x the price. And their 'good' ones are £150+. But yeah, a £20 one not giving a signal is good enough to convince me that my house isn't at risk of going bang.

“I’d like some advice.”

Sure, here’s some free advice.

“No no, I’d like advice which reassures me that my already entrenched opinion is correct.”

<sigh>

You are allowed a permitted drop with a tightness test on an existing gas installation providing there is no smell of gas.

Hence why I'd get the engineer out. They'll do a tightness test and advise. That sniffer isn't the tool for the job.

A few years (probably 20) ago I had a new hearth and fireplace installed.  The fellas did a leakage test (with a manometer) and there was an existing leak (not on the bit they had installed).

Surprisingly there was an acceptable limit ! Though very small.

Good fellas though went 'it's in limits... but we've still phoned the number on the side of the meter anyway, to get it sorted'.

It was indeed the actual gas meter thst was leaking, along with the shut-off valve adjacent to it. Nat Grid (or whatever they were called then for gas) were around promptly and swapped them out, free and gratis.

“Thanks..yeah .. the electricians have already reported it to the grid as they are only allowed to work on ‘my side’ of the electric meter. “

What on earth are they talking about? Its getting a bit mixed up here, you say there is a gas leak, but then say the electricians have called someone. Why have they called the gas people?
For the Gas Meter, they just Bond your side of the gas pipework, which from the pic, looks like it has been done, the other, incoming side is not touched, or earthed/bonded by electricians.
Are they competent to carry out such work, as it appears they dont know what they are doing by saying “ the mains coming into the house basically has no earth”.
If they do they mean the electrical cut out (incoming supply) doesnt have an effective earth, they need to make it a ‘TT’ earth, and should not have turned on any circuits without fitting an earth rod of some sort. Confirm with them that your circuits do have some sort of earthing in place. If not, get them back immediately, as it shouldnt be left like that.

I work for one of the main gas networks.

Call 0800 111999 and they will get someone out to investigate/repair if they can, within 2 hours. This is partly what your standing charge pays for - use it when needed.

Even though you’re turning the ECV off, it may be corroded internally allowing some gas to pass. Network should replace it if that is the case, also ask them about the earthing as you might get lucky?

The meter itself belongs to your supplier and if that is the issue your supplier would need to repair/swap it.

Transco was replaced many years ago, there is no “gas board” either. Different companies own networks in different parts of the country, some independently owned networks can be only the size for a few houses, but usually larger new build estates.

Amazon meter, what can go wrong?

Absolutely nothing on that pages tells me its ATEX/EX categorisation and the fact it's pictured with generic batteries tells me it likely doesnt have one.

The gas engineer will have a proper pumped GMI meter that's actually been calibrated and will pinpoint a leak better than a passive geegaw of dubious safety and reliability.

If I can narrow down where any leak is concentrated then I’ll be there pre-armed if they try to say that the leak is in my side of the system

my experience of the SGN guys (“what transco in Scotland became) was that even in the wee small hours of the morning (after picking up keys for a new house and smelling gas) they came out quickly, and whilst they didn’t completely fix the leak they identified the problem and isolated that appliance (which was not trivial) rather than leave whole house with no heating/hot water.

It’s massively regulated, so they won’t tell you the leak is on your side of the meter if it’s not. Because if you were to report that to, say the HSE, that would be a massive issue.

I think a Gas Safe was jailed(?) fairly recent for doing a half arsed job and then there was an explosion. These incidents are investigated in incredible detail.

They are also regulated on timescales of emergency engineers arriving on site. 1-2 hours is usually the max (depending if smell of gas disappears when isolated at ECV).

I think what we're missing here is that the OP had a massive weed grow and has reversed the meter for a while.

I remember a previous discussion about brass stilson wrenches IIRC!

Hahah...a gas-powered steam-punk weed grow! I'm not that imaginative 😉

Sorry for any confusion...after the electical re-wire, the electricians had to report the mains electric feed where it enters the house as there's no, or hardly any earth on it when they tested, if I recal what they were saying correctly. not a huge supprise as it looks ancient and looks pretty rough.

It was the gas issue I noticed after they had left. I can't smell any gas, but I doubt I'd be able to given how slowly the meter is turning.

Anyway my test meter arrived, after turning the gas off yesterday and overnight, I turned it back on and tested..nothing..but then if gas is escaping i think I'll have to give it more time as it's such a timy ammount.

I know the meter is working as after doing the calibration cycle (outdoors), I tested it by expelling some gas from a cig lighter and it almost immediatly lit up, the concentration bar went to max and it started beeping like crazy.

Well no nearer to solving the problem then, but at least you haven't been forced to call the gas board, which I think was your biggest worry.

Well no nearer to solving the problem then, but at least you haven’t been forced to call the gas board, which I think was your biggest worry.

It's just disruption as I'm going away for a few days, so I'll just turn it off at the stop-cock, and deal with it when I get back. I've tested the meter is totally static when the stop-cock is in the off position.

if gas is escaping i think I’ll have to give it more time as it’s such a timy ammount.

Do you want to read that back to yourself and have a think?

Why

The

****

Haven't

You

Called

The

Board

?

Do you want to read that back to yourself and have a think?

Back at you. I'm beginning to wonder if he's capable, either that it's just a massive windup.

He's bought all the equipment that he needs so he doesn't have to call the gas board.

He's going to sort it out later, after he gets back from a few days away.

On the upside, at least there's no concerns around the electric.

You only call the gas emergency line if you can smell gas.......

If you can't smell it then the leak is so small as to not be a problem.

As I said you are allowed a drop (it can be as large as 8mbar depending on the meter and pipework) on a tightness test of an existing installation providing there is no smell of gas, your leak is so small it may even be in the imperceptible range of drop on a manometer (0.25mbar).

If you are worried I would call a gas safe engineer as they will trace and find a leak if there is one (one as small as yours may be impossible to find). The gas emergency team will just test for tightness (badly in a lot of cases), if they find a leak they will test their part of the installation and nothing else but could leave you with no gas if they want to cap the meter off.

He’s bought all the equipment that he needs so he doesn’t have to call the gas board.

Oh, the meter off amazon of dubious quality and no declared safety rating. Aye, okay.

He’s going to sort it out later, after he gets back from a few days away.

Sort it how? He's not gas safe so it's illegal for him to do any repairs for very good reasons.

You only call the gas emergency line if you can smell gas…….

If you can’t smell it then the leak is so small as to not be a problem.

As I said you are allowed a drop (it can be as large as 8mbar depending on the meter and pipework) on a tightness test of an existing installation providing there is no smell of gas, your leak is so small it may even be in the imperceptible range of drop on a manometer (0.25mb ar).

I'd take advice from the actual professionals that have already declared themselves over some rando that spoke to someone on a job.

Thanks, no, no smell at all and the test meter is registering zero at the meter, boiler and cooker and any exposed gas piping in the basement.

So I'm no too worried, I'll just leave the supply shut off and turn it on for a shower/cook dinner then turn it off again till I can get someone out.

Will I get a big bill if they come out and can't detect a leak?

Just tested again over 2 hours the meter has registered usage (with no demand) from 0.5845 to 0.585m3,   so 0.0005m3 is 'unacounted' for.

I’d take advice from the actual professionals that have already declared themselves over some rando that spoke to someone on a job.

Squirrel - was that directed at me? I was a gas safe engineer for 25 years, only recently given my registration up as I now work in the heat pump industry.

I copied those words from the NICEIC Domestic Gas Safety book so unless it has changed in the last 2 years it is still currently correct.

On the upside, at least there’s no concerns around the electric.

The electricians didn't seem at all concerned, the earth issue has been reported, but not as an emergency and I've not heard back yet ... they just said they will be in touch...they will have to come back out anyway to sign the work off properly, as they can't do that before the earth issue has been looked at and they can re-test.

Something to bear in mind is if the OP has a damaged sense of smell. He may not be able to smell anything until it's at a dangerous concentration.

Urm.. I can smell gas immediately if I misfire my cooker hob, for example.

Also the tester I bought went ballistic when I tested it with a lighter... So it's working as a fail safe.

I think some of the people reading this thread are going to need some new rosary beads by the sounds of it!

@bear I may have been confusing you with someone else but in any case, doesn't that depend on the meter?

Here's the NICEIC guidance published 4 years ago:

Acceptable leak rate for an E6 is indeed 8mbar. But that's not what the OP has, it's a G4 (handily labelled on the meter he posted a picture of on the previous page) which is half that. Have they changed the rates since then?

Regardless, nobody knows what the leak rate is since nobody has put a manometer on it. If only there was someone who he could call that could do that?

Oh and nobody is going to give you shit for doing the right thing. I was working under the floor, heard hissing and got out before calling the gas board (at 10 o'clock at night). Turns out there was no leak but it was the halogen lamp I had heating up and venting the air out the seal. Guy was happy I did the right thing.

nobody knows what the leak rate is

0.04 cubic meters per week by my calculations?

Gas meters have an asset life of 25 years.  I am glad you have reported this - if the meter has a leak it would need to be replaced by the meter provider - not yourself.  A leak downstream of the meter is the property owner’s responsibility.

Also the tester I bought went ballistic when I tested it with a lighter… So it’s working as a fail safe.

Different gasses pal. Natual gas is Methane,  probably Butane in a lighter.

I am glad you have reported this –

He hasn't!

Different gasses pal. Natual gas is Methane, probably Butane in a lighter.

Yeah it's a multi gas tester... "methane, natural gas, propane, LPG, gasoline, etc."

I just tested again - this time on the gas hob just in case, and predictably it went crazy immedialty, full bars, beeping like mad and screen turned red rather than green.

Turned the hob gas off after a couple of seconds, so I was basicaly simulating a failed ignition on the hob, and the numbers of bars steadily dropped and the screen went green again over a few seconds whilst the gas dissipated in the air.

Call the gas emergency line, this is what they are there for. It is free unless you’ve done so etching stupid. They will tell you where the issue (if there is an issue).

You’d have to be bonkers to not call them FFS.

"Will I die?"

"Actually maybe, yes, here's a quick, easy and free solution, call this freephone number:"

"Meh, I'll be fine"

💥

I know, it's been said before 😁

It's still ridiculous 😉

What is the sensitivity of your tester? You're trying to find an admittedly tiny leak with it, but calibrating it by holding it near an open hob/lighter, blasting gas into the room? You said it stops beeping a few seconds after the hob turns off, but surely there's still more gas in the air at that moment than there is near your tiny leak, and it's not detecting it.

Also, there's the chance of you deciding this leak is fine, within acceptable parameters or whatever, meaning to keep an eye on it but really you'll forget all about it before long. Meanwhile the tiny hole grows and ....

Seriously, just call them, what's the worst that could happen! I think you said you're going away soon and don't want the disruption?  Fine, just turn the gas off at the meter and call them as soon as you get back.

but calibrating it by holding it near an open hob/lighter,

No, I 'acid tested' near a hob and a lighter...it runs a calibration cycle for 30 seconds every time you switch it on... So I did this away from the building in the open air, in order to get as clean as possible calibration basline.

it stops beeping a few seconds after the hob turns off,

It drops from 5 bars, flashing red over the course of a few seconds after I shut the hob off, on that particular test, which is what I would expect.

There is still gas in the immediate viscinity of the tester and the hob, but then the beeps get slower, the bars drop, and the screen goes from red back to green over a few seconds as the gas is diluted in the ambient air.

There are 5 bars on the meter, going from 0.1%LEL to 0.5% LEL, the beeps & visual bars get faster as it goes up, and slower as it goes down.

So it's working as expected. In non-test conditions, I can't even get it to register anything at all, which again isn't a huge supprise, given the tiny amount of 'unacounted' usage registered on the mains meter dial.

fine, just turn the gas off at the meter and call them as soon as you get back.

That's exacly what I'm doing, it's actually off right now at the main valve, as I need no heating or hot water. I'll turn it back on for half an hour at a time to have a shower/use the cooker(testing along the way) and that's it.

Then I'll have it looked at when I have time.

This has probably been happening for years,un noticed, I only noticed when I decided to pay really detailed attention to the meter knowing that there was no demand.

"Do not use soppy water it's corrosive" something I took to heart aged 12 when I gave up washing...

Maybe just call the number. If they tell you you're fine, don't worry then it's all good. If they say we'll send someone out, that's up to them?

The electricians didn’t seem at all concerned

.... about your gas supply.

they can’t do that before the earth issue has been looked at

... in case there's, I don't know, a spark or something?

Come on Matt, two pages, literally everyone advising you the same thing.  I always had you down as one of the smarter ones here.  You could have had it resolved by now.

Its not often theres massive concensus on here too .

🙂 I called out the gas board in my last place, cos i smelt gas.

They fixed next doors newly installed boiler for them, before it gassed all of us.

Took about 90 minutes start to finish. Hardly a massive inconvenience.

To be fair Matty hasn't smelt any gas. He's not really in a position to call the number that you phone if you smell gas.

Presumably if he phoned it they would ask him if he can smell gas, there's no point lying as they would soon find out that it wasn't true.

I don't think that "No, but I am worried because I suffer from OCD and keep checking my gas meter" is likely to be treated with the same level of urgency.

He’s not really in a position to call the number that you phone if you smell gas.

They will absolutely take it seriously. If you tell them exactly what is written here. "I can't smell gas, but my meter is going round with no appliances running. I'm worried I may have a leak."

They will come out within a couple of hours. Put a pressure drop test on and tell you straight away.

They will never moan about coming out even for little things. Just call them.

Well I guess he could claim to have no sense of smell.

Can anyone see a scenario where this doesn't end with the OP calling either the gas emergency number or a gas safe engineer? (*)

Anyone?

Anyone at all?

No? So just call them!

(* - by "end" I mean "end in a safely resolved manner with the op fully confident in the long term safety of their gas supply", not "end as the lead story on the local news bulletin")

@ernielynch stop it. Seriously. Everyone bar one has said they will deal with it, I have personal experience of not smelling gas, calling them and getting a positive response. Smelling gas is the bare minimum reason, any gas emergency (and a leak is an emergency) is worth reporting.

https://www.northerngasnetworks.co.uk/network-supply/gas-emergencies/