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We don’t have CBDC in the UK. Not sure how using cash impacts that.
Not yet. It will be coming, when I don't know.
Have spotted a lot more people paying by cash at the supermarkets and petrol stations, of all ages so it's not just the oldies going back to cash for budgeting purposes.
Our local has been cashless since it opened. The landlord says that you can’t put a price on the mither of not having to cash up at the end of each night, then having to find a bank with a branch still open to go and pay it all in
Lots of businesses that handle significant amounts of cash get it collected by a security van, pubs are a big user of it. I used to do it as my old job and for sub-£7k collections it cost £13, so less than sending a member of staff to the local bank and back for lots of customers. I haven't done the job for 2 years now but ex-colleagues who are still there say small pickup trade is booming right now after it pretty much died off last year. People are switching back to cash to help with budgeting (or to keep the real spend in the pub away from the other half...).
The only time I ever have cash is when I pay the MiL's leccy bill. It gets stuffed into my wallet and swapped for Euros when we go abroad. Always pay on my phone these days, haven't used a card for ages.
I pay our cat sitter in cash and that's pretty much it. I have an emergency £20 in my phone case, for cafes etc which don't take cards and think I've had to use it twice since the pandemic started....
Lots of businesses that handle significant amounts of cash get it collected by a security van, pubs are a big user of it. I used to do it as my old job and for sub-£7k collections it cost £13, so less than sending a member of staff to the local bank and back for lots of customers. I haven’t done the job for 2 years now but ex-colleagues who are still there say small pickup trade is booming right now after it pretty much died off last year. People are switching back to cash to help with budgeting (or to keep the real spend in the pub away from the other half…).
Surely that's only really saving you the trip to the bank though. It doesn't get you out of all the cashing up at the end of the night and having to store it until the van comes round the next day.
Just spent 2 days in Iceland (transit to USA). Didn’t spend, touch or even see a single physical ISK. Which was a thoroughly good thing. Been in USA for 24h, ditto, though I don’t expect that to last and we do have some dollars with us.
Why would anyone want to use physical money these days?
Card is clearly preferred but the majority of people. I manage a lot of unattended payment kiosks, where we offer cash and card payment (cash payment is both coin and notes and the machines give change) card usage is between 60% and 85%. We recently made significant improvements to card payment availability, saw quite a marked shift in the payment ratio further towards card as payment availability got to 99%. This is hundreds of thousands of transactions a week, across the country, many locations where we have a demographic skewed towards older or low income users. Not what we expected when we started tracking the data.
Cash resurgence is real but it's also lazy journalism, there's a lot of people who don't want to let go but the reality is cash is on a downwards trajectory. As the older generations die out and are replaced by digital savvy kids the decline of cash will speed up.
but the reality is cash is on a downwards trajectory. As the older generations die out and are replaced by digital savvy kids the decline of cash will speed up.
+1
The sooner the better.
if I see a ‘no cards, cash only’ sign, I immediately think tax dodge.
I normally just go somewhere else. I've pretty much stopped shopping in the local town centre because nowhere accepts cards and I've no time for messing around with cash. Makes me wonder if they ever consider how much they lose from lost business.
There is a rise in ‘no cash, contactless only’ retailers in Manchester. Mostly coffee shops and cafes, but the switch is coming.
Brains tried that in their pubs in Cardiff back in 2019, worked for a while but they quickly had to go back to cash payment availability on Rugby days as there were lots of issues with people not having cards! Agree though, cashless is coming in the next generation or so.
Surely that’s only really saving you the trip to the bank though. It doesn’t get you out of all the cashing up at the end of the night and having to store it until the van comes round the next day.
You can rent a machine that does it for you actually, you just feed the cash in and it does the rest. Some customers actually have it with a live feed and it's classed as 'in the bank' that day. It only eases the burden of cash but there are a lot of businesses and customers who won't give the stuff up! It's all a solution to the lack of bank branches rather than a complete system, sort of a halfway step.
if I see a ‘no cards, cash only’ sign, I immediately think tax dodge.
Indeed! On the other hand, a self-employed plasterer mate boycotts those enlightened business that don't take cash. I can't imagine why he would do that 🤔😉
I was in 2 pubs last week that wouldn't accept card payment. Cash only
Did those pubs have flat roofs?
Everywhere I've been recently has taken contactless payments, I'd be pretty stuck if they only took cash, I don't live in the cash economy and the number of cash points is also dropping. Many that are left charge a stupid amount to take money out.
I really don’t understand the idea that using cash is better for budgeting. Whatever you’re planning to spend it on costs the same regardless. Self control and a spreadsheet takes care of budgeting. Cash is a massive pain in the arse in my opinion. Not used it for years and don’t intend to start again for any reason.
There’s a special place in hell for the people that message you when you’re selling something and ask “How much if I pay cash?” More, I’ll charge you more because I’ll have to take it to a bank to put it in my account and that’s top fun and a superb use of my time.
I really don’t understand the idea that using cash is better for budgeting.
I do understand this, TBH. When you pay cash you physically hand something over, and physically have less of that thing following the transaction, so the act of spending the money has an obvious, immediate effect. That's quite a thing, psychologically speaking. Plus, if you have a fixed amount of cash for the day/week/month, it's much easier to keep track of than phone apps and spreadsheets, again, mainly because of the physicality and immediacy of it all.
budgeting means different things to different people.
for some, its looking at your bank statement or spreadsheet and realising youve spent £90 in starbucks this month, then making the effort to go less next month.
for someone else it might be having £40 left til payday, so you take £20 to the pub and leave £20 in the sock draw for next weeks supermarket.
personally I dont get the phsycological aspect to handing over cash, but we are all wired different.
I really don’t understand the idea that using cash is better for budgeting.
I can see this, you have a wad of cash and when it's gone you have nothing until you next get paid / Giro cashes etc.
You really want a contactless app which flashes up what you have before and after each debit. Currently it's a bit vacuous, you could be overdrawn or have £20k in your account and it looks the same.
for some, its looking at your bank statement or spreadsheet and realising youve spent £90 in starbucks this month, then making the effort to go less next month.
I think that works differently for different demographics though.
I'll admit that when I'm out of work my wallet is bulging with cash because I'll usually sell bikes/parts, get cash and subconsciously that's all my money until the next payday. When working and paid regularly it's generally empty. So it does work. But at the same time I'm not generally one to spend every penny I have in the good times either so I'm not entirely the one the advice is aimed at.
You really want a contactless app which flashes up what you have before and after each debit. Currently it’s a bit vacuous, you could be overdrawn or have £20k in your account and it looks the same.
i'm currently moving from barclays to monzo. the barclays app is good but the monzo is better. automatically categorises spending, tells me if I'm spending more than usual etc.
its not hard to check but some people (my wife mostly) prefer not to know...
Off to the barbers at lunchtime and they only take cash, which is a right pain as the nearby ATM rarely has any, so then I need to make a purchase to get cashback.
I really don’t understand the idea that using cash is better for budgeting.
Because for some folks the physical notes in their hand is a pretty simple indicator of how much they have to spend each week.
You really want a contactless app which flashes up what you have before and after each debit.
I think they had that on one of the payment/banking apps i have. But it was an option that i didn't use and it now appears to have gone. (i just tried to find it and can't.)
I've not deliberately used cash to buy anything in about 3 years, the only cash i get now is from the neighbours when they owe me something. That generally gets stockpiled and dusty, last time i used cash was to get rid of some notes that were being withdrawn.
Can anyone explain to me why there are people (my dad included) that are totally against a cashless society? I am seeing more and more conspiricy theory type posts on social media about the toipic as well, am I naive in my view that a cashless society is a good thing?
Somebody posted something above about CBDC which as far as i understand is a completely separate issue from our cashless / digital cash society. Seems a bit tin-hat to me. Cash is a total PITA.
I think they had that on one of the payment/banking apps i have. But it was an option that i didn’t use and it now appears to have gone. (i just tried to find it and can’t.)
Except, on an iPhone, you pay via ApplePay, which I don't think know's your balance - in fact it can't as it can work offline....
Can anyone explain to me why there are people (my dad included) that are totally against a cashless society?
1) some people don't like change. I can't imagine how they would have dealt with decimalisation if they were alive/adult at the time. "how we've always done it" is a powerful thing.
2) some are so terrified of the gub'mint tracking what they buy for some reason that they would rather deliberately inconvience themselves both in time and financially to avoid it. This desire for secrecy and annonymity is often, bizarrrely, accompanied by making sure everyone else in [digital] earshot knows how much of an individual non-conformist you are.
3) cash is tax free.
Can anyone explain to me why there are people (my dad included) that are totally against a cashless society?
I have a FB friend, who due to Covid seems to have become a complete conspiracy theorist and posts stuff about *they* will control what you can spend etc in the cashless world and how we must have cashpoints protected. I did point out that *they* could just control your access to cashpoints....
Can anyone explain to me why there are people (my dad included) that are totally against a cashless society? I am seeing more and more conspiricy theory type posts on social media about the toipic as well, am I naive in my view that a cashless society is a good thing?
Like all good conspiracy theories, there's someone that stands to gain from it.
Area 51 - I'm sure Lockheed don't object to a load of nutjobs considering that there's another enemy that needs a few billion spent on it developing weaponized space planes.
Cashless - the obvious trades doing work for cash
Qanon - the alt-Right.
etc.
Has everyone forgotten when the visa network went down the other year? Never put all your eggs in one basket.
Except, on an iPhone, you pay via ApplePay, which I don’t think know’s your balance – in fact it can’t as it can work offline….
Yes, it's a banking app, that is linked to your account, and would show your balance when you were making a payment.
in fact it can’t as it can work offline….
Sort of. Your device with your ApplePay key on might work offline... but that's because you use it with a pay point that is online... that can check you have the funds to pay. Anyway... the card/account you have linked to ApplePay should have a banking app... put that on the phone as well and it can nag you about what you're spending via ApplePay and all other methods (once your phone is online, of course).
Has everyone forgotten when the visa network went down the other year? Never put all your eggs in one basket.
Did it? Can't have been a big deal as I don't recall anything....
the card/account you have linked to ApplePay should have a banking app… put that on the phone as well and it can nag you about what you’re spending via ApplePay and all other methods (once your phone is online, of course).
Yes, but the App isn't involved in the payment process, so you have no idea how solvent you are when you run Applepay.
Can anyone explain to me why there are people (my dad included) that are totally against a cashless society?
1) some people don’t like change.
You'd think that would make them more in favour of it. 😁
you have no idea how solvent you are when you run Applepay
If that's what you choose. Personally, I check with my banking app to see what I have left in my account, and what payments have recently gone out. Why would I want to check with ApplePay? It has no idea what is happening with my banking, why would I want it to? That DD that just went out. That card payment made online. None of its business. As for online/offline... where are you buying things where there is no phone signal and no wifi? That might be quite an England centric point, sorry if you're somewhere more remote and less connected.
posts stuff about *they* will control what you can spend etc in the cashless world
bonkers, to what gain?
you've bought too many bike bits this year, card declined?
our whole society is based on people spending and sending the same money round and round. Not without its downsides, I will admit, especially as that can be at odds with sustainability.
But why the government and banks want to stop you spending is a quesiton these people never answer.
If that’s what you choose
I'm merely pointing out why budgeting is easier will all your money as cash in you hand rather than having to run one app to see what you have in your current account, mentally subtract out any outstanding DDs and then use Applepay to buy a plate of finest smashed avocado on toast..
Personally I just buy the toast knowing there is always enough money to cover it - but then I'm not on the breadline (yet).
Oh, I have been... and seeing your overdraft limit being exceeded be a few quid (meaning lots of charges) while you know you have just under a tenner in your pocket in cash is such a sinking feeling... if that money was in your account until you've spent it then it could be helping keep the ever present creeping threat of the bank charges at bay, maybe 'till payday, if luck is with you. There's a downside to all payment methods when you're shit broke.
Can anyone explain to me why there are people (my dad included) that are totally against a cashless society?
From my FB friend who went from a very rational chap to a total paranoid, conspiracy theory nut job over the last two years and now just posts crap like this:
[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52408657601_537e538486_z.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52408657601_537e538486_z.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/2nRb51R ]Paranoid delusions[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/brf/ ]Ben Freeman[/url], on Flickr
*They* are coming to get you.....
He also posts a lot about Covid masks causing heart attacks. I have offered to put him in touch with a friend, deputy medical director of Papworth Heart Hospital, to discuss this, but apparently 'he' is one of *them*.
His FB feed is my insight in the online equivalent of the Victorian loony asylum - so I haven't blocked him yet.
His FB feed is my insight in the online equivalent of the Victorian loony asylum – so I haven’t blocked him yet.
Is your friend my dad? Who I did block, and has now been forced to remove himself from Facebook by the family due to his increasingly horrendous views on things 🙂
From my FB friend who went from a very rational chap to a total paranoid, conspiracy theory nut job over the last two years
does he live alone? I have some sympathy for someone who took refuge in the dark corners of the internet when covid lockdowns removed real life social interaction.
does he live alone?
No married, grown up kids, grandchildren....
Trying to save them all from *them*.
It's all a bit sad, he was a really decent bloke pre Covid.
Has everyone forgotten when the visa network went down the other year? Never put all your eggs in one basket.
ITS (quite a large epos firm) has been unable to use Google and apple pay across a few days/weeks over the last month - so millions of people were unable to use these services to pay for goods causing huge disruption (especially for those that only carry their phone). And Clover (who bank funds into from the epos machines into buisness accounts) had big banking issues and delays at the start of this week.
Things like this happens quite regularly
Like all good conspiracy theories, there’s someone that stands to gain from it.
The biggest to gain from going 100% cash free are the banks. That's why chip and pin and now contactless were rolled out - they are new ways/products for banks to generate funds.
Do any of you no cash people buy thing off facebook market place, bootfairs etc?
1) some people don’t like change. I can’t imagine how they would have dealt with decimalisation if they were alive/adult at the time. “how we’ve always done it” is a powerful thing.
That just reminded me of a clip on the news when pound coins were introduced. Some mad bat in the street showed her disapproval by dropping a pound coin and telling the reporter that she couldn't hear it fall. Ignoring the fact that a paper pound note makes no noise at all when it falls out of your threadbare purse..
Do any of you no cash people buy thing off facebook market place, bootfairs etc?
I occasionally sell the odd thing for cash on FB etc and then just use the cash to pay our cat sitter (neighbour's daughter) next time we go away...
Some mad bat in the street showed her disapproval by dropping a pound coin and telling the reporter that she couldn’t hear it fall.
mad. how did she beleive pre-decimised currency differ in this regard? and why was it an issue?
Do any of you no cash people buy thing off facebook market place, bootfairs etc?
Use PayPal where possible for Facebook marketplace but don't use it a whole lot. And you wouldn't get me near a bootfair.
And you wouldn’t get me near a bootfair.
all the misery of trawling ebay/marketplace; with the added hassle of getting up early, and walking round a wet field, and no search function.
From my FB friend who went from a very rational chap to a total paranoid, conspiracy theory nut job over the last two years and now just posts crap like this:
The logic there is just brilliant. "In a cashless society, how will we draw out cash?!"
Do any of you no cash people buy thing off facebook market place, bootfairs etc?
Not if I can help it.
There is - today at least - still a need for cash for stuff like this. The old boy on my street sells off tat on trestle tables outside his house to raise money for charity, I can't imagine him investing in an EPOS system in order to facilitate the sale of a second-hand washing-up bowl. In a cashless society the 'spare some change, guv?' elements of society are going to struggle. Street entertainers, they're out of luck too.
But these are outliers, for regular day-to-day retail transactions it's usually unnecessary. I can see the argument against card payments for small purchases if there's a transaction fee, and some places do have a minimum payment limit of £5 (though it'd be easy to view this cynically as a retailer upselling, I only wanted a bottle of pop but I've no change so I'll buy a few other bits).
At the other end, what's a 'large' cash transaction? I paid my cat-sitter ~£100 in folding a little while ago but there's little reason why I couldn't have done a bank transfer other than it was her preference. The largest bills in wide circulation are £20, I don't think I've ever seen a £50 note in the flesh and many retailers won't accept them due to fraud concerns anyway. We could, arguably, introduce the £5 coin into general circulation and do away with banknotes completely.
Interesting question really. I rarely use cash - mostly only when I've sold something on FB marketplace or want to pay a tradesman for a quick job and it makes it 20% cheaper (wonder why?).
Having said that, I'm not keen on a totally cashless society. Given how close Germany came to negative interest rates during covid, having cash in circulation means that, in theory, if banks start charging you to keep your money in them, you can feasibly just go and withdraw it all and stuff it under the mattress. Thus creating run on banks/financial meltdown etc dissuading central banks from going negative.
Cash is a faff, and contactless is far easier. Having said that, if we could get rid of coins I'd be much more willing to use it. Back to pound notes please and ban the 99p rubbish. (Disclaimer - I'm 37 before anyone says pipe down grandad)
Do any of you no cash people buy thing off facebook market place, bootfairs etc?
Yeah, as said PayPal and bank transfer have been a thing for years. Decades even in the case of PayPal.
We could, arguably, introduce the £5 coin into general circulation and do away with banknotes completely.
So have money weigh more and be more difficult to count and more difficult to carry for the convenience of who exactly?
So have money weigh more and be more difficult to count and more difficult to carry for the convenience of who exactly?
Why have coins at all then? Should we get rid of the penny in favour of a 1p note?
Do any of you no cash people buy thing off facebook market place, bootfairs etc?
At best it's circular, I sell something, and it takes a few weeks to spend it back again, and then there's the faff of trying to get change sorted etc.
But I've never turned down or been refused a bank transfer.
Do any of you no cash people buy thing off facebook market place, bootfairs etc?
And farmers markets, and blokes selling firewood from a barn in a forest and second hand shops and people selling street food and giving money to beggars and car parking and at the fun fair...
It's easy.
Either Google Pay or Swish or bank transfer.
Do any of you no cash people buy thing off facebook market place, bootfairs etc?
Don’t use Facebook but Mrs F does and uses PayPal. Car boot sales, nope, never been to one and don’t intend starting. If I can’t pay in a way that’s convenient to me I’ll just buy from somewhere else.
This stuff is rife on our local FB groups. This and self service checkouts are supposedly the beginning of the end of the world.
Yeah, as said PayPal and bank transfer have been a thing for years. Decades even in the case of PayPal.
I find PayPal and bank transfer far more of a pain for small amounts.
I mainly use card but sure as hell do not want to see cash go. Far to useful for buying and selling little bit and bobs, presents, quick transactions, out of service areas, emergencys.
I am getting the impression of quite a narrow section of society from the no need for cash crew.
Another question for you no cash people.
Are you of the opinion if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear?
Also what are your thoughts on government backed crypto?
Are you of the opinion if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear?
I'm not sure I understand the question. What would we be afraid of?
I am getting the impression of quite a narrow section of society from the no need for cash crew.
Nah. On the civilized side of the North Sea, cashless is ~90% of all transactions.
Are you of the opinion if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear?
AHH bollocks, the government will be onto my criminal empire now. The purchase of that porcelain dog at the car boot was the last piece of the puzzle they needed to build their case.
I find PayPal and bank transfer far more of a pain for small amounts.
Because plugging an email address in and hitting send is so difficult?
Another question for you no cash people.
Are you of the opinion if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear?
What exactly am I hiding? Regardless of of how I pay for something "they" still know I've gone to the trouble of finding out where to buy "it" by my internet history. Since I'm not in the business of gun running or kiddy porn I'm not exactly sure what I should be worried about.
Also what are your thoughts on government backed crypto?
Right, that's twice, gonna explain what the actual point is here or is it all guesswork and innuendo?
If it doesn't involve lizards I'm going to be so disappointed.
Another question for you no cash people.
Are you of the opinion if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear?
No-one has nothing to hide.
Another question for you no cash people.
Are you of the opinion if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear?
I have absolutely no idea at all just what it is you’re getting at. You’ll have to explain it to me, preferably in words with as few syllables as possible.
I hardly ever carry cash, I even buy an ice lolly using contactless when I walk across the park on my way home from town.
Although oddly enough I was given two pund coins this evening when I took the re-usable plastic beer ‘glasses’ back to the bar after a gig at The Exchange in Bristol this evening. Greenman and EOTR festivals do this, you pay a pound deposit on your first pint, then you just take the glass back and get a fresh one, or keep it and just get refills. First time I’ve seen it at a venue, but it makes sense - no problems with breakages, easy to clean and re-use, and if someone wanders off and takes their glass with them, they’ve paid for it anyway. I took my two back and got my deposit back. I’ve got a few festival ones, ‘cos people just drop them on the ground, so I pick them up, then take it back, get a clean one with a pint, then do the same again. They’re handy to put a cold drink in when out in the garden, ‘cos they’re pretty sturdy, and won’t break - certainly worth a quid.
Another question for you no cash people.
Are you of the opinion if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear?
Another vote for ‘what does this even mean?’
Not used cash for years and can’t think of anything I’m hiding or truly fearful of. Hang on though I guess there are that stack of dead bodies, my drugs empire and Anatidaephobia to take in to account.
Buying bike bits off eBay and sandwiches from the place next to work will surely uncover my illicit deeds!
Can someone please explain what the issue is with CBDC?
If you tell us what it is first.
All fine and dandy till there’s a power cut.
fair point but not a fair point, I’ve seen that happen and the tills don’t work either so even cash is useless
Mobile phone for everything for me ie Apple Pay or my bank app and direct transfer.
most annoying thing for me is parking in the local town that still requires cash. I never have cash so don’t pay and risk getting a fine
Also what are your thoughts on government backed crypto
Will admit I don’t understand it, never had any. I thought the point of crypto was that it was unlinked to our or any governments currency. So I don’t see what the point of BofEcoin is.
But using some future concept (that just happens to contain the words electronic and money) as a way of justifying an objection to making small purchases with a credit card rather than coins today, is so much of a non sequitur I am at a loss with where to begin.
The purchase of that porcelain dog at the car boot was the last piece of the puzzle they needed to build their case.
The thing is, they will never know about your porcelain dog fetish as I assume you used cash at the car boot?
Also what are your thoughts on government backed crypto
Totally pointless.
Totally pointless.
I was thinking the same. Isn't the whole point of Crypto that it doesn't have an owner or a gouvernence structure?
The thing is, they will never know about your porcelain dog fetish as I assume you used cash at the car boot?
Not if it was cashless.
And it was stuffed with Columbian marching powder.
Then they'd be interested.
Makes you think.
A Haiku is supposed to have a set number of syllables and only three lines.
Can someone please explain what the issue is with CBDC?
We did the "people fear change" joke already, didn't we.
Cash works for the people but not the powers that be.
That's why they're getting rid of it - control.
Cash doesn’t work for this person. It’s a PITA. Also, who are they?