[Closed] Possible shooting in Munich, people reported injured/shot

Fin is about as bang on as a blind Parkinson's sufferer trying to shoot clay pigeons.

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No, Tom, it's not [b]just[/b] about Sunni Wahaabis.
Thanks for that transcript, a lot to take in, because the issue is [b]complex[/b]. I think it's too easy to just say "radicalisation" or "Wahaabis" and make that the problem. The problem starts much earlier than that. We need to try to understand why people who choose violence do so, rather than engaging in simplistic reductionism.

lol at yunki googling:

Shit's on fire, yo!

Philippines luxury hotels

Edit: Oh. We got a ninja editor up in here?

mate... the worst of it is that I always forget to log out of my other half's chrome account and she gets home with this totally exasperated look on her face

(I actually googled 'shock and awe' and Phillipines)

Your clever Yunki. Here's what life is like for many people in the Phils

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

When you hear about a Christian Filipino suicide bomber, get back to me.

https://www.rt.com/news/353005-machete-wielding-man-attack/

she gets home with this totally exasperated look on her face

Tom_W1987 - Member
Your clever Yunki. Here's what life is like for many people in the Phils

When you hear about decades of war waged on the phillipines by western governments you get back to me sonny jim

Syrian refugee kills a woman in Southern Germany with a machete.

If Merkel had a strong rival politically she'd be finished.

Lets be clear I don't care whether he's Sunni, Shia, Yazidi, Kurdish, Christian or of no religion. Germany has more than a million people within its borders who they know very little about.

or if the germans feared immigrants and muslims as much as you do

@yunki the people of the Middle East has been slaughtering each other in violent wars for 1000's of years. The west stumbled into it, they did not create the divisions.

@yunki the people of the Middle East has been slaughtering each other in violent wars for 1000's of years. [b]The west stumbled into it,[/b] they did not create the divisions.

This "blame the west" thing is a red herring. France was publically against the Iraq invasion, what did Belgium have to do with it ? Germany has been the most open and helpful nation to Refugees.

Ok simple question
Have we helped the middle east be a more peacful region?

Yes or No

I think most would accept it was no and many would argue we have not really tried we have only acted to secure a theatre of influence whence why Saudi is probably the worst[certainly amongst them] yet we don't mind because they are "loyal"

Lets be clear I don't care whether he's Sunni, Shia, Yazidi, Kurdish, Christian or of no religion. Germany has more than a million people within its borders who they know very little about.

Lets be clear I don't care whether he's Sunni, Shia, Yazidi, Kurdish, Christian or of no religion. Germany has more than a million people within its borders who they know very little about.

political and social dislocation amongst the young and poor as they are about religious doctrine.
Would so many young men be looking for answers in wahaabist violence if they were secure and happy in their own lives?
Would terrorism have gained such a foothold in the Middle East had Iraq nor descended into chaos?

Tom_1987. This above is the bit of Fin25's post which I don't think you can have seen to disregard what he/she says. May I ask which part of the Phillipines has had events similar to Iraq, Afghanistan or Syria? Marcos may have been a nightmare, but he was nothing in comparison. Where is the ready set of schisms that have been utilised by an interfering set of foreign or regional powers for their own ends in that locality? Also, where are the disaffected, non-integrated diaspora of people of Phillipines origin ready to be be co-opted into violence...? There is no value in your comparison.

I think the text you included is interesting and the main thing in there is the complexity of the situatiion. However, I don't think it illustrates the point you are trying to make. Nor does the blatant rudeness of your approach TBH...

Middle East has been slaughtering each other in violent wars for 1000's of years. The west stumbled into it, they did not create the divisions.

that's a true fact mate however, the number of terrorist attacks on our shores seems to increased somewhat over the last 40 years or so

if the germans feared immigrants and muslims as much as you do

You might not want to watch "NSU - German History X" on Netflix...

Cannot think why that show could have appealed to you

😆

jambalaya
Lets be clear I don't care whether he's Sunni, Shia, Yazidi, Kurdish, Christian or of no religion. Germany has more than a million people within its borders who they know very little about.

There probably isn't anyone that uses the forum that DOES care as much as you.

The BBC article on the Germany attack states the perpetrators country of origin in its headline so you don't need to look into the article for the bloodlust you crave.

When you hear about decades of war waged on the phillipines by western governments you get back to me sonny jim

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippine%E2%80%93American_War

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Enduring_Freedom_%E2%80%93_Philippines

😀 😆

Ooops.

yeah.. I don't think you can really consider that pwnage though laddie

Tom_1987. This above is the bit of Fin25's post which I don't think you can have seen to disregard what he/she says. May I ask which part of the Phillipines has had events similar to Iraq, Afghanistan or Syria? Marcos may have been a nightmare, but he was nothing in comparison. Where is the ready set of schisms that have been utilised by an interfering set of foreign or regional powers for their own ends in that locality? Also, where are the disaffected, non-integrated diaspora of people of Phillipines origin ready to be be co-opted into violence...? There is no value in your comparison.

The North during the communist uprisings.

Christian and Muslim schisms have been expoited there by the good ole USA.

How many terrorists that have attacked the west have been actual syrians who were exposed to that countries descent into war?

yeah.. I don't think you can really consider that pwnage though laddie

Why not? Al-Qaeda's attacks were mostly down the simple fact that they hated Americans having military bases within Saudi. Those guys weren't motivated by growing up in poverty.

France was simply supplying aid to the FSA up until the attacks on their home soil. What kind of Syrian would go a bit explodey, because the French were helping the FSA defeat Bashar Al-Assad? Go on, tell me? Might they be fundamentalist whackos as opposed to upset syrians?

for the bloodlust you crave.

I disagree with Jambalya on about 99% of issues, the 1% being Spurs being bottlers, but that seems a touch harsh.

I'm really lost as to what you're going on about now Tom..
What point are you trying to make?

I'm certainly not sure that I'm disagreeing with you, and I'm also not entirely sure whether you're asking me to defend a point that I've made or whether you're asking me to counter something else entirely.. 😕

@ath I was in favour of airstrikes in Syria first time round to try and reduce casualties in that cilvil war, I think there have been another 100,000 deaths since then and of course the rise of IS. I want to see less bloodshed. So far Germany's openness doesn't seem to be making them any safer.

@yunki I would agree the region is less stable than it was 40 years ago. The removal of brutul dictators who where slaughtering their own people has lead to renewed sectarian violence. Two bad situations.

Whilst there is plenty of talk here about the Middle East the violence in France and Begium has its roots in the Maghreb - Morocco / Tunisa / Algeria and we have arrested such individuals in the UK who have been planning attacks.

I really don't think we have too much to disagree on here, Tom. Maybe I was unclear. Poverty is one reason why young men might feel disenfranchised to the point of violence, your point about a lack of integration is definitely valid regarding sectarian violence in Europe. I just don't think it's helpful to reduce the narrative to simple explanations of us and them, there's more to it than that. If we don't try to understand why young men make these terrible choices we'll see more and more violence. Less blame, more understanding and all that hippy shite.

jambalaya
I was in favour of airstrikes in Syria first time round to try and reduce casualties in that cilvil war, I think there have been another 100,000 deaths since then and of course the rise of IS. I want to see less bloodshed. So far Germany's openness doesn't seem to be making them any safer.

So 100,000 further deaths in Syria since air strikes. Well done. Do you think Syrians now in Europe feel safer? They probably do.
Your post above jambers makes me feel like I happily voted in the referendum to clean up your s***, and I would happily vote the same way again, although please eat roses the next time!

I think the text you included is interesting and the main thing in there is the complexity of the situatiion. However, I don't think it illustrates the point you are trying to make. Nor does the blatant rudeness of your approach TBH...

I agree with most of what the author said, but not his feeble attempt to differentiate between "muslim culture" and religion. The two are massively intertwined.

Can you imagine the outrage if Christopher Hitchens had said, "it's not their religion that makes them violent - it's their culture, it's who they are as a people". The professor, whilst making an awkward disclaimer to placate the religious - manages to say something that would be more openly racist and horrific if said by a westerner.

I really don't think we have too much to disagree on here, Tom. Maybe I was unclear. Poverty is one reason why young men might feel disenfranchised to the point of violence, your point about a lack of integration is definitely valid regarding sectarian violence in Europe. I just don't think it's helpful to reduce the narrative to simple explanations of us and them, there's more to it than that. If we don't try to understand why young men make these terrible choices we'll see more and more violence. Less blame, more understanding and all that hippy shite.

We do on 80 percent of this discussion I think - sorry I was rude and terse. I just went a bit cross eyed seeing the same usuals that blew the opinions of that professor off last time.

At the end of the day, I think the Muslim world and Islam needs to go through a period of liberalisation. It's not the people, people are the same everywhere. It's just more religious lunacy, of the type we see in other places to lesser degrees or to greater degrees in different eras, it's just the right time and place for Islamist lunacy. Making excuses for it just does a massive disservice to liberal and secularist Muslims and Middle-Easterners everywhere.

Tom_1987.

I think you know exactly what I meant. The scale of comparison of the two situations and in the last 100 years the lack of interference to cause regime change. I'm not ignorant on the more recent actions of the US, nor the historic events. You are not the only informed kid on the block.

They are not the same thing at all... 🙂 😆 I too can use smileys - in discussions like this it comes across as incredibly patronising.

Fin25 is simply saying look at things in a wider context.

@ath I think you misunderstood, 100,000 deaths since airstrikes where voted down a few years ago, not since they where approved recently. Inaction can cost lives too.

Bomb being reported in a bar in Southern Germany.

Bomb being reported in a bar in Southern Germany.

27 yo Syrian man was refused entry to a music festival, blew himself up using a bomb in his backpack which apparently was packed with screws and nails. His motives remain "unclear".

His motives remain "unclear".

probably just bored

Refused asylum a year ago but given accomodation and financial support to remain in the country as it was unsafe for him to return. No so safe for those in Germany for him to remain.

That's America off the holiday list. Psychos those Americans.

jambalaya - Member
Refused asylum a year ago but given accomodation and financial support to remain in the country as it was unsafe for him to return. No so safe for those in Germany for him to remain.

yes its definitely best to be be cowed and do exactly what the terrorists want 🙄

after we gifted ISIS the Brexit result, they are now capitalising on the instability it has caused

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/isis-brexit-news-eu-referendum-result-praises-response-islamic-state-daesh-political-crisis-crusader-a7109781.html

its all just more of the benefits of brexit

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/isis-urges-attacks-berlin-brussels-paralyse-post-brexit-europe-1567341

Yeah Kimbers, ISIS target Europe because it's a secularist symbol of unity and human rights. They can't let it be seen as giving hope and refuge to fleeing Syrians. They will target Europe so they can turn around and say "look, they hate you".

We have to counter that with good propaganda of our own, we have to champion secularist ideals and human rights. We should only engage in intervention in Syria once we've made it very clear that what we care about are those two ideals - and that we do genuinely want to help syrians. If we can't do that - then we will lose the war of hearts and minds. Carrot and a stick, we have to counter Islamism and yet offer an alternative that looks good for young Muslims. We have to get into the mindset that this is an ideological war and we have to start behaving as if it is.

By retreating into nationalism and discussing policies such as "internment" we are simply proving to the world that we have lost faith in our own culture.

How did this bombing on the weekend pass me by???

So this guy spent time and money planning and building a bomb, but neglected to buy a ticket for the festival.... Idiot.

Again, I'm happy that it is line idiots and not a properly organised group.

Kimbers the terrorists want to come here and kill us. We should not allow them to do as they wish. As I have pointed out from the start the authorities in Europe have no idea who these people are. Who is a legitimate refugee and who is not. As this guy was refused asylum its reasonable to assume he was not a legitimate refugee. The approach of the UK is the right one, we take refugees direct from camps who have been proposed by the UN and vetted by the UK.

@alpin bombing was late last night, easy to miss. Relying on incompetence isn't a good security strategy. In any case I think his backpack would have been searched. We all all happy he was not as successful as he might have been. I imagine some of the injured could have serious injuries. He could have just rented a truck.

Ansbach suicide bomber had recorded a video declaring the attacks were "revenge against Germany". Authorities uncovered ISIS videos and more bomb making equipment at his home.

So we can conclude that he was just confused, lonely and bored and certainly not a muslim.

perhaps he was a tosser?

So we can conclude that he was just confused, lonely and bored and certainly not a muslim.

Correct. Just like when terror suspects in Europe are described as being of Asian appearance you can never be sure whether it's the latest attack by the Sikhs, Hindus, or Buddhists.

i think it is safe to say that the Ansbach bomber was a religious nut and not a very good suicide bomber. ISIS/Daesh say it was their work. that is open to debate...

the Stuttgart/Reutlingen machete nutter was, from what i can make out reading the german papers, in love. supposedly no religious nuttiness, just a hankering after someone he couldn't get, so he killed her. so just a generic nutter who happened to be from Syria.

the Munich shooter was another generic nutter, not a religious one. unhappy at having been bullied.

nevertheless, there will be war...

He was due to be deported to Bulgaria. I predict they will be even more reluctant to acceot further deportees. Germany has already found Morocco and Tunisia unwilling to take their citizens back.

@alpin I do appreciate that line of argument but its a tough one to make. You don't have to be the world's number 1 conspiracy theorist to think the German government is in full propoganda mode. I understand the CDU official went to great lenths to suggest this had nothing to do with Merkels "open door" policy as this particular Syrian had arrived before her "we'll welcome everyone from Syria offer". This bomber clearly wasn't trained by IS but an individual who pledged allegence. He learnt to make a bomb shomehow though.

i think it is safe to say that the Ansbach bomber was a religious nut and not a very good suicide bomber. ISIS/Daesh say it was their work. that is open to debate...

the Stuttgart/Reutlingen machete nutter was, from what i can make out reading the german papers, in love. supposedly no religious nuttiness, just a hankering after someone he couldn't get, so he killed her. so just a generic nutter who happened to be from Syria.

the Munich shooter was another generic nutter, not a religious one. unhappy at having been bullied.

nevertheless, there will be war...

yes, but of the three attacks in as many days in Germany only one of those can be directly linked to Islamic nuttiness. you could agree the toss that all three attacks were religiously motivated, but i won't entertain you. it is unfortunate (obviously the attacks in themselves are tragic) that the religious background was the same among all three.

i would also agrue that the Munich guy wasn't Muslim.... at least my experience of Persians is that on the whole they couldn't give a hoot about Mohammed, more so among those resident in Germany. bear in my my GF is half Persian and i have a lot of contact with Persians from Iran and within Germany. all of them drink, not one of the girls/women cover their heads, many of them take drugs. there is however a high procentage of pharmacists, engineers and dentists amongst them.

[b]but i won't entertain you.[/b] it is unfortunate (obviously the attacks in themselves are tragic) that the religious background was the same among all three.

alpin

yes, but of the three attacks in as many days in Germany only one of those can be directly linked to Islamic nuttiness. you could agree the toss that all three attacks were religiously motivated, but i won't entertain you. it is unfortunate (obviously the attacks in themselves are tragic) that the religious background was the same among all three.

Let's recap. 14th July a man drives a lorry into a crowd in Nice killing 85. Early reports say he had a criminal past, mental issues, no radical affiliation and was acting alone. Until a few days ago when it was revealed he was part of a gang of at least five, who planned the attack for a year.

19th of July an Afghan refugee attacks people on a train with an axe and a knife, is shot dead by police. Apparently suffered from mental issues. Acted alone. Had recorded a video dedicating the attack to ISIS.

22nd of July a German-Iranian teen goes on a shooting spree killing nine. Apparently he was bullied, had psychiatric problems. Was not radicalised. Acted alone. Earlier today it was announced police have arrested a 16 year old Afghan who they suspect was an accomplice to the shooter.

Then we have a 21yo Syrian man stabbing a 45 year old pregnant woman to death, attacking 3 or 5 other people until he was stopped by a bystander who hit him with his car. Obviously he had psychiatric problems, was not radicalised and was acting alone.

And then we have the Ansbach bomber who claimed his attack was revenge against Germany, that he was doing it in the name of ISIS, tried to commit mass murder. Obviously he had psychiatric problems, and was acting alone.

Yeah, I forgot about the Würzburg axe one....

Begrudges the West/Germany, attacks a group of Chinese. :-/

I liked the response of the copper who shot him after being asked whether he needed to shoot the axeman.... "What should I have done, organised a kung-fu event?"

Alpin, can you translate?

[url= http://m.liveleak.com/view?i=671_1469469908 ]NSFW but in German[/url]

Why the spontaneous applause?

What should I have done, organised a kung-fu event?"

Brilliant. Chapeau, or the German equivalent. He should not have even been queries on it. Reasonable force is shooting the guy dead.

Alpin btw thanks for info, sharing views and participation. It seems most of the frequent posters on political topics are absent. Strange that !

well its obvious that anyone with brown skin that commits murder is defo ISIS

theres also a swimming pool death cult here in the UK, in the last week alone..

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/surrey-pool-party-murder-investigation-8487233

http://www.itv.com/news/anglia/update/2016-07-19/three-people-shot-and-killed-at-lincolnshire-pool/

well its obvious that anyone with brown skin that commits murder is defo ISIS

theres also a swimming pool death cult here in the UK, in the last week alone..

I don't come down on either side here, but just being obtuse doesn't help anyone.

no more so than jimjam 😕

Hostage taking in France in a church, two suspects dead and one hostage dead.

Joy.