Another small update.
Changed oils - engine, front and rear diff, and transfer box. Couple of plugs were tight and needed some heat on the casings.
Cleaned up the front subframe and applied Fertan (will do for now till I have time to do it properly).
Stuck replacement Alibaba badge on bonnet.
Insured (£460) and taxed and went for a spin in it!
OMG! What a machine! My daily driver is a 20year old Berlingo so this is somewhat of an upgrade!
The autobox is dimwitted though - I don't know if it needs it's adaptations resetting but it changes a lot unnecessary. I've been driving it in 'manual' or shifting up using the tiptronic wheel buttons.
There's a whine on the front end, possibly either the diff/propshaft/wheel bearings. Not a problem will sort it👍
Amazing bargain for £500!
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How long do you think all of the work you've done would have taken at a garage?
I love the idea of a £500 car, I absolutely haven't got the skills to any of that diagnosis or fixing.
How long do you think all of the work you’ve done would have taken at a garage?
I don't know to be honest - some of the things I'm doing are standard service stuff but other things are restorative and not the type of work usually done by a normal garage.
Cars at this point are 'beyond economic repair' hence why I have this and my £500 Xc90, luckily - I don't subscribe to that but I'm fortunate to have the space/tools/skillset.
3.2 V6. Is that from the R32 / TT / A3 family?
Mostly a glorious noise and poor consumption.. engine share across the VAG group?
Yep it's the R32 / VW VR6 lump with 250 thirsty horsepowers.
It did 26mpg on the hours motorway run bringing it home and it's done 20mpg clacking around locally.
I said earlier in the thread - I know these cars are dinosaurs in a world of EV's, this Cayenne will only be used very occasionally for roadtrips/camping/snowy weather commuting.
How long do you think all of the work you’ve done would have taken at a garage?
I don’t know to be honest
Ah well, I'll "park" that dream 😀:-)
I'm approx 3 or 4days tinkering into it so far.
I'm planning to put a fair bit of time into it to halt the corrosion on the rear subframe, the exhaust needs dropping and welding and I'm potentially changing the front diff.
Also bare in mind these are only £500 cars because the friends who owned them know I'm going to rebuild and keep them running. Book value for this Cayenne and the XC90 are far higher than £500.
Bangernomics can work though if you can find a decent cheap well looked after car, run it as long as possible whilst doing the absolute minimum of work on it and scrap it when you need to employ the services of a mechanic/garage
Bert appears to need convincing it's ok!
I had a Peugeot 605 for 17 of its 20 years. I agree with your strategy apart from the "doing the absolute minimum of work on it" bit. I like my cars to be safe and reliable. It eventually drove to the breakers in perfect working order except for the fuel injection system for which I could no longer source parts and all the bits in the breakers were knackered too. If I'd kept it I'd now be able to get all the parts new online.
Oh oh! It's broken!
I knew the exhaust was knackered and had been bodged with some repair tape - hence why it was cheap. It completely failed last weekend.
Luckily I have 9apart Porsche breakers a few miles away. I had a chat with them previously about running an cheap old Cayenne and to get an idea of parts prices. They have row upon row of bits for them, all properly removed and labelled.
Paid £200 for the silencer, exhaust tips, bumper trim (mine has a small dent in it) and the elusive dash clock adjust button.
All in perfect condition.
Porsche prices are
Silencer £947
Exhaust tips £516 each
Bumper trim £190
Clock button £52
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£52 for the microscopic 3d printed clock button seems very reasonable.
You really would have to be a fool to run one of these unless you were a bangernomics guru like the OP
It's easy to see how they become 'economically unviable', parts are expensive and there aren't aftermarket alternatives. And then there's labour on top - Porsche specialists won't be cheap.
Spend so far is ~£1000
Car £500
Service items ~£300
Exhaust bits £200
How long do you think all of the work you’ve done would have taken at a garage?
I love the idea of a £500 car, I absolutely haven’t got the skills to any of that diagnosis or fixing.
My Berlingo was £625 (at peak Covid prices when any other Berlingo with an MOT was £2k+). I think it too a day to tick off the "MOT-prep" list of jobs, and then another day to service and clean it to a state you'd actually want to drive. So over a weekend it went from scrap value to a decent car.
The issue with old cars isn't so much the time/skills to fix them, the fixing bit is usually very straightforward, just follow the manual and bolt/unbolt stuff in the right order. It's being able to identify problems, and then splitting them into;
MOT problems (i.e. needs fixing because it's unsafe even if it has 364 days left on the certificate), serious problems that will cost money if not fixed (e.g. engine faults), and stuff that doesn't matter (e.g. a rear seatbelt not working, if you don't need to seat 5 people, just cut it with scissors as if it's not there it's not a problem).
"The issue with old cars isn’t so much the time/skills to fix them, the fixing bit is usually very straightforward, just follow the manual and bolt/unbolt stuff in the right order."
I'm not so sure - I just had to have the front coil springs done on my 10 yr old leaf. An easy job you might think but apparently it was a total nightmare and took three times as long as expected, plus they needed a few tricks to get it sorted without destroying a bunch of other parts as everything was so corroded. Luckily it was a friend of a friend doing it otherwise I would have been charged an absolute fortune instead of a small one!
Small update.
Going aurora borealis spotting in the porker the other night reminded me that the tailgate struts needed changing (common Cayenne fault). It's not very romantic trying to both sit on the boot lip with the sudden death of the clothes prop giving way and the tailgate decapitating us.
Removed rear C pillar trim and a small section of roof lining. Few clips and trim to access the struts. 30mins of fiddling and swearing had them replaced. Replaced everything - boot works properly again.
Cost for all 4 struts was £80 for Stabilus OEM.
The front differential is noisy - again it's a common Cayenne fault. The official Porsche service schedule is 160k miles! The front diff only holds 1litre of oil.
I changed it a few weeks ago and went to a heavier gear oil (thicker) ran it for 2weeks then dropped it again. It was black with a shimmer so definitely on its way out.
Replacement diff sourced for £130, along with replacement Corteco seals. Plan is to change it in the next few weeks.
Fixed bulb dimmer switch that had been pushed through🤷♂️
Drug dealer spec rear window tints removed.
Cost so far ~ £1300
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Isn't the tax another £400 per year that should be counted? Guess it's lucky it skipped the really penalty tax bands by a year or so
Isn’t the tax another £400 per year that should be counted? Guess it’s lucky it skipped the really penalty tax bands by a year or so
anything post March 2006 is £700, this is <£400.
A work colleague is looking to replace his tired Freelander2, there isn't much pre 2006 that has okay MOT history or isn't completely rotten. He's offered me £2k for this Cayenne but I'm not selling.
anything post March 2006 is £700, this is <£400.
.... My 2012 is £365.
Have completed the top level of Man-Maths today!
£500 tow car
£16000 caravan
(Collect it Thursday)
He’s offered me £2k for this Cayenne but I’m not selling.
Having read this thread I'd happily hand over £5000 for it in its current condition. Not that I'd buy a Cayenne of course, interesting thread though, for a petrolhead thread. 🙂
Stuck for something to buy MrsRNP for her 50th I figured nothing quite says happy birthday like a caravan!
T@B 320, German made 2 berth. Collected from near Gateshead, campsite booked for this weekend near Bala.
Porsche did 32mpg on the way to collect and just over 20mpg with caravan attached.
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That looks a plush way to overnight 😃
Are you still going down the over landing route on the car?
Thanks for the update. Great thread.
That looks a plush way to over [s]night[/s] [b]take[/b]
FTFY
I have to say that you look more thrilled than the missus with her birthday present.
Looks great though!
Loving this thread - and happy birthday to Mrs RNP!
That's a neat little caravan.
Sixteenthousandpounds? Blimey.
Oh, and Happy Birthday to Mrs Bangernomics... 👍🥳
Snap
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Yeah! STW caravan buddy's!
(How have you got on with it?)
@RustyNissanPrairie pretty good had it for over 10 years now. No complaints only issues the front seal around the window needs the seal taken off and a squeeze of silkaflex to keep it waterproof.
Sixteenthousandpounds? Blimey.
You could buy 32 Porsches for that.
Re. Bangernomics and our caravan;
All caravans are mental prices for a bit of cardboard on wheels. We looked at Eriba/Hymer and they are £30k+ (new).
This T&B is ~£20k new when specced up.
We did miss a bargain T@B earlier this year but didn't move quick enough.
We've worked out that depreciation alone is £800 a year on it (IIRC they first made them in 2005). We went with a caravan as we have 2x tow cars - this Porsche and the XC90 that im rebuilding. The fact our tow cars each cost £500 means we can spend what would normally be car budget on a nice caravan instead (man maths!)
Surely with your interest in overlanding, and mechanical abilities, you should get a unimog or pinzgauer motor home conversion!
"neilnevill
Free Member
Surely with your interest in overlanding, and mechanical abilities, you should get a unimog or pinzgauer motor home conversion!"
I once went to buy a radio/command bodied Zil 131 as MrsRNP was half listening when I blabbed on about multifuel and being free to run on petrol station mis-fuellings. She went bat shit mental when we arrived and she saw it. We bought a roof tent for our Defender instead.
Can't imagine why Mrs RNP had a problem with the Zil; just the job for popping down to the shops!
Surely with your interest in overlanding, and mechanical abilities, you should get a unimog or pinzgauer motor home conversion!
Where can you realistically make use of them in the UK/Europe?
What's that matter?!
Where can you realistically make use of them in the UK/Europe?
The school run, you'll barely feel a parked Range Rover
I don't normally like caravans.... but I LOVE that/those ones.
How much?
I’m reading this with pangs of jealousy - I so wish I had the skills to do this - right up my street (but I can only manage it with bikes, not cars!)
kelvin - caravan price on previous page.
Birthday update.
Arrived on a site near Bala North Wales late last night so just parked it and quickly set up. Our friends in 'Lucy Walker' (Jay is a mountaineering nutter) the VW Crafter arrived shortly after us.
Turned caravan around in the morning so the door/sunshade is out of the wind.
Bacon and egg buttys always taste better when camping!
Had a mooch at the awesome petrol stations in Bala, currently having a beer.
Staying on here till Tuesday then heading towards the Shropshire border to see other friends then heading a bit further north as another friend is coming camping with us for a night then back home on the Easter weekend.
Car tows brilliantly - doesn't have a huge amount of torque but using the 'box in manual mode you can keep the revs up a bit and keep it in the sweet spot.
Fuel economy wise - towing it's doing 20-21mpg.
Not towing it did 31.3mpg going to Gateshead up the A1 to collect the caravan.
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As a bloke in a Zafira* with a blow up tent I can only applaud.
* currently worth 9 Porsches
We have that Isabella canopy too (probably worth 2 Porsches). If you read the installation instructions you'll note erection to be done topless and beers to be brought on completion.
I hope the measurement if value in terms of the number of Porsches catches on. In fact, if appropriate I may go over and gently troll the £5k enduro bike thread with this now. 😀
Had a mooch at the awesome petrol stations in Bala
I always think those petrol stations should have an F1 crew on them....
...and we're back home!
We went from Bala to over near the Shropshire border and a great little farm campsite. They had 3 hardstanding pitches which we had all to ourselves. Lovely family who ran the farm/camping, immaculate facilities - would highly recommend!
The weather was awful with local flooding but Greta and T@b(atha) handled it all fine!
From there to Nottingham area - the site was rubbish but we met up with a friend who stayed over in her tent. Visited Sherwood forest which was great.
Regarding Greta - I knew Mk1/955 Cayennes are massively capable before I bought it but what an amazing bit of kit it is (especially for £500!). I've had it in low range with the centre diff locked towing Tabatha through muddy fields and floods through to 4 of us and Bert blasting along Welsh A roads in utter comfort.
The T@B caravan is great, it tows well, is big enough for the pair of us and Bert, well built and nice and snug when the weather is awful.
600miles and 20mpg - not great but for £500 I'm not complaining.
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A similar era Cayenne gets Pistonheads shed of the week.
It also costs 4xPorsches!
https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-features-sheds/porsche-cayenne-s--shed-of-the-week/48435
Just because it's a cheap car doesn't mean it gets cheap parts!
New front discs and pads cost 0.5 of a Porsche (plus £60 for new caliper pipes, pad fitting kit and wear sensors).
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Front diff swop last weekend (noisy pinion bearings).
All bolted back together now but rebuilding front brakes as they were a bit grotty.
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New OEM seals fitted to replacement before fitment.
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Front propshaft and drive shafts disconnected.
Suspension, roll bar and steering shaft separated from bodywork, subframe lowered and supported. Space to remove differential.
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This is why I like working on quality older cars - corrosion resistant fasteners.
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Thankfully I have a good assistant on hand to double check my work
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Calipers removed and cleaned up, piston and seals okay but dust covers replaced.
New Brembo discs&pads/bleed nipples/rigid pipes/disc bolts/pad retainers/wear detection cables. Full brake bleed.
Front end suspension components cleaned and Fertan applied whilst brakes removed.
All back in one piece now and been for a spin in it. The £130 differential was a good punt - the drivetrain is quiet as it should be now.
Ready for bank holiday caravanning - at least you won't be stuck behind us!
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A really readable thread, thanks for taking the trouble.
What are the pairs of cylinders that seem to be riveted to the ends of each brake pad? Something to do with dampening vibration??
Are they not wear stops, so you can't use the backing plates for stopping when you've ran out of brake pad material. I could do with these on my bike 😬
The brake pads things I think are harmonic weights - the red cable are the pad wear sensors.
I'd forgotten what a conflicting car it is to drive - my usual daily is a 2004 Berlingo, it's small, economical and unpretentious. This Cayenne is the exact opposite!
I drove it to work today to bed the brakes in a little for weekend and parked it next to my work colleagues Cayenne. I'm ashamed to say that I took him out in mine when I'd just bought it and he immediately traded his Freelander in for a later model Cayenne he loved it that much.
For reference though his cost 20x times what mine cost!
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A Porsche the cost 20 Porsches?
It does get a bit confusing talking about multiple Porsches when the unit of currency is a Porsche.
👍
Googled your suggestion, thanks, who'd have thought that brake pads are this complicated (see section 4)... https://www.hella.com/techworld/us/Technical/Brakes/Repairing-brakes-important-information-79437
Front differential and brake tinkering behind us we fuelled up and headed an hour or so away to near Lancaster / South Lakes. Nice quiet little site, no children or clubhouse!
Bit of local exploring including calling at South Lakes Porsche as I know they built a 957 for the Porsche Re1nvent series.
Gearbox full service and I have a new water pump and set of pulleys to preemptively change next and that's pretty much it mechanical wise.
Tyre and wheel decisions are also looming, it's currently on 19"s but they are a bit scabby and the ride is harsh. Looking out for a set of 18's from a 957/958 to put some mild all terrains on.
Got some looks on the motorway when towing - I bet none of them guessed the car cost £500 and the caravan 30xPorsches!
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[url= https://imgbb.com/ ]upload image[/url]
There was a lovely 957 turned into, what looked like, an overlander outside Porsche Chester a couple of weeks ago.
It took was probably for the Re1nvent series.
I should have got a picture for you. I may be going back.... Hopefully it's still there.
...Porsche
ChesterEllesmere Port...
That's better.
There's a bit of footage on YouTube of Re1nvent - it was like a low budget milder version of Landrover's Camel Trophy/G4 challenge but it was good they used older cars. I think it was also to do with the Cayenne becoming a Porsche classic - they've released upgrades for the car (sat nav head unit, retrofitting cruise control etc) and parts and servicing are 'cheaper'.
Anyway, just arrived home, T@batha washed and fridge emptied, car did 20.3mpg so slight improvement on last time. Nice weekend away, good campsite - will deffo go back there.
That’s better.
You'd have thought so but it's officially Porsche Centre Chester 😛
Officially somchichially. 🤣
car did 20.3mpg
Assuming two people in the vehicle that's about the same mpg as if you'd flown. Much as I'm enjoying the bangernomics aspect of the thread I couldn't drive one, that's worse than the real world figures for even the biggest motor homes.
I couldn’t drive one, that’s worse than the real world figures for even the biggest motor homes.
Hello, the fun police have arrived.
Firstly, no-one is asking you to drive one and secondly you're wrong about the Moho consumption.
That’s about the same mpg as if you’d flown
And thirdly a reasonably full commercial jet will get around 80mpg (per person)
Not towing it will do ~30mpg, the ~20mpg is two up towing. When it's not towing it's parked up - it's not a daily.
I did state in the very beginning and a few times since that I acknowledge this Cayenne is a dinosaur but what else would I replace it with? Anything newer would be more than likely diesel, and probably not much better economy wise.
Doing bangernomics on this Cayenne has enabled us to spend car money on a caravan instead.
….. and you can’t get a commercial flight to the south lakes!
Anything newer would be more than likely diesel, and probably not much better economy wise.
958 diesel does 35-39 on average (and 23 towing a 2 ton boat) JFYI
30mpg (which will likely drop to 25mpg with all terrain tyres on, and maybe 22 or 23 once its lifted) is going to be really painful on a tour of scandinavia. assuming sheffield to tromso return (I've no idea where the OP lives or where they're going), at 5000 miles round trip, 22mpg would be £1300 in fuel alone (assuming £1.50 per litre) compared to ~£500 in diesel in a small people carrier or estate.
It's not getting lifted - it was my initial idea but since buying the caravan the standard suspension setup is fine for our use.
It's currently on really soft compound Kumho aggressive winter tyres that are probably worse for mpg than an AT.
Remember the car cost £500, if it costs a bit more in fuel I'm 'still in pocket' with my man maths, and besides I have an old but super economical Peugeot Partner (Berlingo) - I'd rather pay the extra and go in air conditioned leather cosseted auto box comfort than the 'Blingo.
But how will those people without driveways and a refinery at home get their fuel, do they have to drag the hoses across the pavement blocking other people? These internal combustion engines will never replace electric.
How much stuff have have you got jammed in that tiny caravan!!?? 🙂
Must weigh sod-all so not sure why your fuel consumption drops from nearly 30mpg to 20mpg!
It's got the usual camping chairs/BBQ/awning, bit of food and provisions but nothing too heavy. The 30mpg was a long steady 60mph run up the A1 - so ideal conditions for maximum mpg, I haven't done a long non towing journey since with it.
The V6 engine (Volkswagen VR6) easily falls off the bottom of its torque curve (320nm) when towing and then you are dropping gears and using its rev range to get it back into its torque curve again which hurts economy. It's happiest at a true/GPS indicated 60mph.
I'm rebuilding a £500 XC90 as per my initial post in this thread, that should be better for towing as it has 400nm torque at I expect a lower rpm.
I’m rebuilding a £500 XC90 as per my initial post in this thread, that should be better for towing as it has 400nm torque at I expect a lower rpm.
Maybe.... but I had an XC() before the 958 and it was worse on MPG (averaged 31-32 on my usual 100 mile run with 70% dual carriageway). My theory is that the [smaller] engine was working harder than the one in the 958.
And thirdly a reasonably full commercial jet will get around 80mpg (per person)
You're right, sometimes the first Google result is wrong.
Tinkering time!
Front driver's door speaker was a bit crackly - replacement sourced from local Porsche breakers (£10). Fixed👍
Gearbox service, fluid drained, cover removed, new ZF filter installed along with new seals & cover gasket.
New fluid at correct temperature level.
Adaptions reset.
Deus sticker applied (from Camperdown store)
Ready for next bank holiday towing session!
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