Porsche £500 bangernomics

Excellent. In for the ride.

That looks awesome.   

Caveat, I do feel guilty/dirty, I know these types of cars are dinosaurs in an era of EV and the antithesis of a cyclist. I think my justification for them is that they will have limited useage, the Volvo was never intended to be a daily driver, the Porsche will certainly never be. It's actually been replaced by a Tesla with its previous owner.

I just cannot refuse a bargain and have the scope to rebuild & maintain cars myself. MrsRNP is a philanthropist and brings little money into the household which keeps campervans (the purpose of this car) and EV's out of reach.
We also like Overland travel having previously built an overlanding Defender and a LWB van.

This is the only forum I'm present on hence this discussion not being on Pistonheads where it might have more of an audience.

Anyway....pics to follow.

Tick

Definitely following this one, even after I realised it won't have an on-board waterslide

You’re proposing to use the thing for exactly what it should be used for. Plus it sounds like it’ll be awesome. I’m in!

Looks mega  🙂

Caveat, I do feel guilty/dirty, I know these types of cars are dinosaurs in an era of EV and the antithesis of a cyclist.

It seems as though these cars would be headed for the scrapyard if you didn't restore them, and fixing up an old car has got to be more sustainable than dropping £££ on something new.

Will be following this thread with interest.

Also following with interest 

Exactly that. Keeping stuff going is the ultimate in sustainability. Anyway, I came across these guys at the Essen Motor Show, where they had a Taiga green 956 on 18" Cookie Cutters:

https://www.blackrhinowheels.com/porsche-cayenne-off-road-wheels

Don't forget that G-Wagens have the same PCD as well, so loads of proper offroad wheels available.

Excellent, will be watching ,and waiting for Kryton to make an offer on the final build 👍 😆

It seems as though these cars would be headed for the scrapyard if you didn’t restore them, and fixing up an old car has got to be more sustainable than dropping £££ on something new.

Our daily drivers are both immaculate well maintained nearly 20 year old 54plate petrol Volvo V70 with 210k miles for MrsRNP and for me either my Trek ebike commuter or my 54 plate Peugeot Partner.

Both the XC90 and the Cayenne had both reached 'beyond economic value' with their previous owners which as an engineer isn't a theory I subscribe to. It does feel a little though guilty extending their lifespans.

Why not a modded MX5?

Also following with much interest!

Parts that have to come from Porsche as they are not available pattern are eyewateringly expensive.
Having said that though, aren't they a vw Toureg Ina pretty dress?

I'm in!

A lot of the parts are VAG group parts so also check out Audi for part numbers. Go for it, it is better than scrapping it and electric vehicles are not yet suitable for what you propose using this for. Go drive with a clean conscience.

Does it have a turbo? If it has a turbo you could dual fuel it with ethanol and make it a bit cheaper to run. Sweden has a decent amount of E85 at the pumps, so it should give you a bit more flexibiity if you are here.

Also, shout if you are going up the east coast and need coffee. STW always welcome (as long I am now away skydiving, in which case come by Västerås instead)

Having said that though, aren’t they a vw Toureg Ina pretty dress?

Some parts are shared but overall, not really.

In my experience Cayennes are built better from better parts and last way longer.

This will be a great project!

Looking forward to this.

My neighbour has a similar aged Cayenne Turbo that he got to replace a late production Defender. Like you he has the workshop to do his own jobs. It is a lovely car and he pocketed over £20k changing from defender to Porsche. His was lovely to start with however. He also has a 996 911 and a Macan so he is used to the ways of maintaining a Porsche. He has roped me in to a few jobs on the 911, they are not easy DIY cars.

Porsche nuts and bolts can be undone after 25 years in a way I have yet to see on other cars. I have done various things on my 911 which involved removing all the underbody panels which were held in place with Torx screws. Not one snapped. I removed and replaced the water pump. All bolts released cleanly and could be re-used. I had to lower the engine from the chassis a little and gain all bolts loosened and tightens like new. Weird and I wish my other cars were like this.

.....and the reason for rebuilding worn, tired out cars for a proposed Scandic overlanding trip?
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Love
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Specifically this guy pictured below

He's featured on STW quite a bit. He's called Bert and is a Karjalankarhukoira / Karelian Bear Dog (KBD).
He's native to Finland but came to us via Manchester dogs home just over 5years ago.
Nobody knew his breed, his past or where he came from, there was confusion at the dogs home and he'd never been chipped. Later DNA testing uncovered his pure breed pedigree.

So the reason for the roadtrip is that Labradors, Collies, German Shepherds etc etc all get to meet their brethren/opposite sex in the local park.
Bert is one of 4 KBD's that I've found in the UK (all male).

The most heartbreaking thing was hearing him howl when we played him YouTube footage of KBD pups once.
So the idea is that I'm on the Finland KBD group and will make contact with the guardian of a female KBD and agree to meet up in Finland. We'll open the car door and Bert will go bounding over in a loving embrace having finally met up with his long lost friend/relatives.

Or he'll run over, they'll bark at each other, have a fight at which point we drag him by the scruff, chuck him back in the car and drive home again wondering why we'd bothered!

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Following this! Great idea for a road trip.

Why is the exhaust flexi such an expensive repair on these?

This needs a full documentary series!

Great thread, My mates who are DEEP into cars swear by the VW equivalent of the 955.

Porsche nuts and bolts can be undone after 25 years in a way I have yet to see on other cars.

Only other model of car I've worked on that's done this is the E30 BMW. Every bolt was engineered.

I only fear for your wallet

But keeping a car going for this sort of trip is not an enviromental crime

Why is the exhaust flexi such an expensive repair on these?

it's a V6 so it's two cats/downpipes, one of which has a small flexible. They then both join straight into a larger flexible.
The genuine part is ~£800, after market are cheaper.
But, I'm am engineer/designer/fabricator by trade - I have a nice Lincoln AC TIG set at work so I'll cut the flexibles off and weld in some new stainless ones.
The flexibles are available from Autodoc for less than £50 for both.

The labour is expensive to get the exhaust off as access isn't great.

The back box is cracked and blowing also, but again I'll weld/repair it....or fabricate a custom 3" side exit!

What are the brakes on this as on the top model they didn't allow for an offroad wheel to be used - these truly were Chelsea tractors.

electric vehicles are not yet suitable for what you propose using this for. 

Ironically when you get to Norway you will see more electric cars than you will see anywhere else in the world

The flexibles are available from Autodoc for less than £50 for both.

On a similar note my Mondeo has the same issue, flexy is gone and it's attached to the cat so a new OEM solution is about £800odd, what brand are you looking at on Autodoc? I've seen the ones that just get welded on for about 30 quid.

Can't remember what brand and I haven't ordered any yet as there's a few different diameters available but they are all stainless so for me it's a cut and weld job.

Loads of pictures of the car build...but really not wanting to see anything of the dogging session to allow Bert to breed...

WorldClassAccident
Free Member
Porsche nuts and bolts can be undone after 25 years in a way I have yet to see on other cars. I have done various things on my 911 which involved removing all the underbody panels which were held in place with Torx screws. Not one snapped. I removed and replaced the water pump. All bolts released cleanly and could be re-used. I had to lower the engine from the chassis a little and gain all bolts loosened and tightens like new. Weird and I wish my other cars were like this.

Yep, the same at 35 years old too. Rarely have to resort to extractors or heat to undo bolts.
On mine, at least most of the exhaust system is original equipment too.

I'd love to do something like this. Need to get my garage cleared to get the space to do the work. Just wish I had room for a 2 post lift 🤔

On a similar note my Mondeo has the same issue, flexy is gone and it’s attached to the cat so a new OEM solution is about £800odd, what brand are you looking at on Autodoc? I’ve seen the ones that just get welded on for about 30 quid.

At that point it’s probably cost effective to get an exhaust fabricators to look at it. Doesn’t need to be loud. I’ve been quoted £600 for a full system before, no cat but including wastegate tie in and installation.

Does it have a turbo? If it has a turbo you could dual fuel it with ethanol and make it a bit cheaper to run. Sweden has a decent amount of E85 at the pumps, so it should give you a bit more flexibiity if you are here.

*Cough" you can also tune for quite a lot more power on E85.

If they ever distribute it to the UK it'll make the "I only run my car on premium dead dinosaurs" gnash their teeth.

At that point it’s probably cost effective to get an exhaust fabricators to look at it. Doesn’t need to be loud. I’ve been quoted £600 for a full system before, no cat but including wastegate tie in and installation.

Not really, it's on the original cat and dpf and I'd like it to stay that way. The rest is fine, it just needs the flex removed and a 30 quid replacement welding on. A full system seems rather daft when it's not needed.

The genuine part is ~£800, after market are cheaper.
But, I’m am engineer/designer/fabricator by trade – I have a nice Lincoln AC TIG set at work so I’ll cut the flexibles off and weld in some new stainless ones.
The flexibles are available from Autodoc for less than £50 for both.

Would you believe that our Ibiza has similar Flexi and cat all one. The VAG part is £1k.
Our garage has a welder and a 'can do' attitude. Flexi has been welded / replaced once and it's going to need it again this year I think. Cost is an hour's labour and £20 generic Flexi pipe for some old VAG model.

We’ll open the car door and Bert will go bounding over in a loving embrace having finally met up with his long lost friend/relatives.

Not really, it’s on the original cat and dpf and I’d like it to stay that way. The rest is fine, it just needs the flex removed and a 30 quid replacement welding on. A full system seems rather daft when it’s not needed.

Fair enough, wasn’t suggesting removing emissions equipment, just that an exhaust fabricator can sometimes sort it out for way less than OE.

When I tried to change the flexy joint on our 20 year old Astra it became apparent the rest of the exhaust, despite looking fine needed replacing. It got a £150ish pattern system thrown at it.

Great project Op!!!

Hahahahha the £500 cayenne what could go wrong!

Jealous...

If theres straight bits either side just get a clamp on flexi

Well it made it the 1 1/2hour journey home!

Not a bad old bus so far, goes well, stops in a straight line, had half a tank of fuel already in it, the Porsche floor hinged throttle pedal feels weird, bizarrely it doesn't have cruise control, 3previous keepers and a big file of receipts.

Too dark and rainy for pics tonight, MOT results tomorrow!

MOT results tomorrow!

Ooft.

Fair enough, wasn’t suggesting removing emissions equipment, just that an exhaust fabricator can sometimes sort it out for way less than OE.

Sorry, I wasn't suggesting you were, just not keen on aftermarket emissions kit.

Getting a full system for the sake of a flexy seems a bit overkill but agree it's the way ahead if you need it.

MOT results tomorrow!

Ooft

Pass! (with plenty of advisories!)

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Not a terrible list for a £500 car!

Fuel tank straps seem to be a common fail point on old Pork.

Cool!

Shame about the cruise.... That would have been handy.

What will you do about the rear subframe (seeing as you're not scared of taking cars apart!)?

Not a terrible list for a £500 car!

Fuel tank straps seem to be a common fail point on old Pork.

and certainly one as complex underneath as an early Cayenne
The straps are £23 each so no biggie!

What will you do about the rear subframe (seeing as you’re not scared of taking cars apart!)?

I'll probably do the same as I did with the XC90 - drop it all down, strip it apart, take it to my shot blasting man then Zinga cold zinc coating as a base with epoxy over the top.
Dinitrol squirted inside. Rebuild with new bushes etc.

Game on....

As the owner of both cars* I'll be honest and say that your time is/will be much better spent on the Cayenne than the XC90!

* Although not an early Cayenne.

Pass! (with plenty of advisories!)

Advisories about the car? Or just a more general stern talking to, questions about life choices, that kind of thing?

I wish I had a big enough garage so I could do this. Wish I had the time. Wish I had all the tools. Wish I had the skills.

Great thread. Followed the last one, looking forward to this one. 

Following because I find this more interesting than van threads.

Question (and you may have already said) what happens to the Volvo once this is done?

Question (and you may have already said) what happens to the Volvo once this is done?

@cookeaa
The honest answer - at this moment in time having had the Porsche for a few days I think the Volvo is a better car (for us) for a few reasons;

1. Fuel economy. Bringing the Porsche home and clacking about and it's doing average 22mpg. When it's fuelled and ready for a trip with a full roofrack I expect it will be sub 20mpg. The Volvo will be mid upper 30's

2. Space/volume. The Volvo is bigger internally, the wheelarches encroach less and it's longer (7 seater). I can happily sleep in the back of it. The 955 is a lot shorter and even though it's wide externally the wheel arches encroach a lot due to the wide wheels.

3. Parts prices. I'm used to buying Volvo (and Peugeot/Citreon parts). Everything is available from OEM's and where you do need genuine then Volvo costs are reasonable. This Porsche needs a few genuine parts namely - bonnet badge, trip meter reset button, offside exhaust tip. Not much available used/Ebay/breakers
These parts are insane prices! The tiny little dashboard trip reset button is £50, the exhaust tips are £100's, and a bonnet badge is £150!

4. Image. My Volvo's and Berlingo don't say anything about my class or status, I think maybe this Porsche does although I might be overthinking this.

5. Diagnostic support. The Volvo wins hands down - I have factory/dealership level Vida Dice, the dongle wasn't expensive and it all works perfectly on a laptop I will take with us. Porsche grey market factory level diagnostics are quite expensive and would sting a bit if I needed to buy it.

The Porsche will be dynamically better than the wobbly big bus Volvo but thats not an issue for our useage.
The thing that could swing it in the Porsche favour is off-road, I want to do some of the high level ski resort passes in the Alps, the proper 4wd, low range transfer box and difflocks of the Porsche win hands down over the effectively front wheel drive/Haldex of the Volvo.

Ideally I'd graft the two cars together, the D5 engine and body of the Volvo combined with the drivetrain of the Porsche. But for £1000 for both of the cars I can't really complain!

I'm going to use the Porsche over winter, carry on with the Volvo as I have a mountain of parts stockpiled ready to fit to it and decide properly later on. Unless you want to buy a £3k 955 Cayenne with a years MOT?

damascus
Free Member
I wish I had a big enough garage so I could do this. Wish I had the time. Wish I had all the tools. Wish I had the skills.

Great thread. Followed the last one, looking forward to this one

Mother nature decided children werent for us so we went down a different path in life. Accordingly we sold our future family proofed house we'd renovated from top to bottom and bought a former converted mill/foundry instead. I'm a engineer/designer/fabricator with a massive skillset. I also have a very understanding wife!

Would I rather be spending time with my alternate life children rather than swearing at old worn out cars? Possibly, I'll never know!

I might start a Youtube channel about overlanding in £500 everyday vehicles though!

I’ve no interest in cars, but loving this post and will follow all the way.
Sobering words just now RNP, reminds us it’s easy to look at others but only see half the story.
Keep the updates coming.

The tiny little dashboard trip reset button is £50, the exhaust tips are £100’s, and a bonnet badge is £150!

I'm not sure you're doing bangernomics right...

Aha! I was About to ask about the volvo but I see you've answered.   All you say makes sense except surely there are mods to make the volvo a bit more off road capable?  Isn't the Haldex software controlled? A quick tweak with the laptop and it sends more to the rear?  Or talk to Quaife, see if they have mods for it.... you could end up with some Torsen LSDs instead?  Although perhaps too spendy?

Looking forward to this one. Heart will clearly rule the head... 🤣

Porsche Cayenne for £500 (blowing exhaust), would that suit your lad……🤣  It’s £700 road tax (yes I know it doesn’t exist) which is why I haven’t bought it

None of which are essential items when it comes to driving to the Arctic circle. Exhaust tips , any polished 316 stainless steel would suffice. Bonnet badge . Get a mint sauce " this is why thing ", trip reset button .- I think life will carry on regardless if you can't break down a journey in to stages.

The Volvo will be mid upper 30’s

I had an early XC90 for about 12 years (from new) and it never got mid 30's fuel consumption let alone high 30's.

My average was 32.

YMM (literally) V but I'm not so sure.

Aha! I was About to ask about the volvo but I see you’ve answered. All you say makes sense except surely there are mods to make the volvo a bit more off road capable? Isn’t the Haldex software controlled? A quick tweak with the laptop and it sends more to the rear? Or talk to Quaife, see if they have mods for it…. you could end up with some Torsen LSDs instead? Although perhaps too spendy?

There is a Haldex controller available but its fairly expensive (€800) and the angle gear unit isn't really strong enough to handle any driveline wind-up.

Looking forward to this one. Heart will clearly rule the head… 🤣

@Timba

It turned out it was the lower tax band for this Cayenne (upto 2006 are £300ish) hence why I then bought it. Do you still want it for your lad?🤣

Flex joint on my Subaru was either a £1100++ complete system, or a £80 at a local specialist to just replace the joint.  Crazy to think how people will sack off cars for seemingly uneconomic super expensive MOT repairs when very cheap options are available.

The pumps on haldex couplings probably aren’t really up to engaging the clutches permanently either, given that out of the 7 haldex equipped vehicles we’ve had in the family precisely 7 have gone wrong in some way.

Interesting that the Porca’s got lockers.  Are they the vacuum actuated ones VW fit to t5/6? If so try and use them once a month, just to make sure they don’t seize up. That was another thing that I had to fix on our last caravelle due to lack of use by the previous owners.

Skillz.

Sustainability isn't buying a brand new ev made in a mega factory and carrying on as normal,  it's minimising car use (or avoiding altogether if feasible) and keeping old ones going.

With the parts priced, have you tried any of the alternatives? Design 911, Frazerpart, there’s a German company I use for smaller parts. Can’t remember their name at the mo.

Being a PCGB member gets you a discount on parts. I briefly joined when I was building mine.

@hot_fiat I know exactly what you mean with the vaccum operated difflocks on the VW t5. I got fed up replacing the cheap (not cheap) palstic solenoids which very wisely were situated under the van in all the crap and water of modern welsh roads! I eventually did a proper modification involving industrial grade metal solenoids relocated into the top of the engine bay. Needless to say they have been faultless ever since. I can find a picture and a buying list if anyone is interested (very niche mind lol)

These 955 are proper off road beasts.

Porsche entered range rovers market of big lux 4x4, and defined the market for fast suvs that handle well on road

As such they did not know if the market would reject them for not having true off-road credentials, so they equipped them with lockers, low range box and real capabilities

As it turns out the market didn't care about that so all that off road stuff was dropped for the 2nd gen

Fantastic vehicles if you need a mixed usage tow car.

Sadly the 2nd gen is more of a one trick pony unless it was optioned up. They do have a really low 1st gear in lieu of a low range box.

Ideally I’d graft the two cars together,

That sounds like a good solution, where could you get some expert help from?😉

5. Diagnostic support.

You just need an adapter to swap the k line in a VCDS cable and you can do everything like code modules etc. it's just a big VW afterall.

You can get hooky VCDS setup cheap.

Must admit I look at old cars being scrapped and sometimes think about all the resources and technology in them and wonder how it is they are not worth repairing and using rather than buying new. I totally get the non economic element in terms of parts and labour but still.... Seems a waste.

Good on you for keeping it going it and good luck with the project

If you keep an eye out, there might be a Bentley going cheap, bit of a fixer-upper but nothing that won't buff out.

https://twitter.com/mistergeezy/status/1739903678763385328

Wow.

Just wow.

Bit of an update.

Found and downloaded the factory workshop and parts ID manuals on Scribd. The workshop manual PDF is 170mb and 6024 pages! The parts ID is 800 pages. Info👍

Took the MOT advisory wheel (that had the bolt/nail in it) to my back street tyre man for a repair. Sorted for £10.
Kwik fit would have been a new tyre....and recommendation for a new battery and shock absorbers.

It's missing the bonnet emblem, replacements appear to be Porsche only (£150), however AliExpress have them for £12 but Porsche copyright protection appears to reach China so the seller doesn't actually mention Porsche or show an image so it's pot luck to what is actually going to arrive!

Volvo design +1
Porsche design -1
The underside is generally in good condition regarding corrosion but there's a design flaw on the rear doors. The door extends into the rear arch, there's a substantial outer seal and an inner in case water gets into the area. But there's a lip/return on the door skin's that collects mud and water. Rust has set in quite badly on mine. I've ground it out and applied some Fertan for now but I'm on the look out for a replacement in better condition. The nearside door is fine.
Wash your cars better people!

The Xc90 in comparison has a removable plastic arch that collects any crap.

OEM service items ordered from Autodoc, Mann filters, ZF gearbox filter kit, Gates aux belt, NGK 'plugs.

Sprayed downpipe/exhaust bolts in readiness for dropping the complete exhaust off for repair.

Not much else to report, nothing untoward found, it's on SORN so not being used till it's serviced/exhaust repaired.

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Small update. Not in use yet and weather has been rubbish for outdoor tinkering.

Gave it a good wash - come up well, had lots of green/moss growing on it!

OEM (Mann) air and cabin filters changed, aux belt replaced. Engine area generally checked over.

Factory stickyness removed from radio knobs.

Headlights removed, sanded and polished.

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Nice job on the headlights

Nice job on the headlights

The 'cloudy' pic of the headlight is after I'd removed the remains of the original coating with 500grit. I followed that with 1500grit followed by Autosol metal polish and then Maguires plastic polish.

You can still see feint stone chips in the plastic but they are good enough.

Great thread. One thing (not to do with you) is bugging me though. How the hell is a nail/ bokt in a tyre not a mot fail? Surely the fact it’s marked Dangerous means it’s more than advisory? In theory someone could drive it around  like that for another year without getting it repaired.