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That link is very interesting THX,
Heh, so Halal could potentially lead to fewer cases of vCJD then?
Gassing sounds like a good idea on the face of it.
bigjim - MemberAnyone who supports this ask yourself one question. If you were to be killed right now and you had a choice of your neck being slit or a single shot to the head, what would you choose and why?
Well as the only bit of scientific evidence I've read on the subject says that the knife it least painful and less likely to contaminate the rest of my succulent meats with my own brain matter (as it's for human consumption) I'll go for the big knife.
If evidence is provided to the contrary (and not 'Some chap said it's really bad') I'm more than willing to re-consider.
The Governments advisory body, the Farm Animal Welfare Council, looked at all available evidence in 2003 and concluded that the method of killing without pre-stunning caused 'significant sensory pain and distress until insensibility intervenes'. They go on to say that this period of time (again with all evidence available in 2003) was 5 to 7 seconds for sheep, 22-40 seconds for adult cattle and up to 120 seconds for calves (that's quite a long time to be bleeding and conscious).
It's report also notes that most religious bodies now accept pre-stunning and only around 10% of all halal and kosher meat is not pre-stunned.
It recommended that non-stunned killing exemptions should be repealed in UK law but the Government declined to accept it's advice.
Yes, definitley eaten it before, have bought it once when I was cooking for muslims friends, I'm an immoral omnivore so it's tricky to be critical of differing slaughter methods but still think it would be nicer all round if if the poor fwuffy animals suffered less. thing is ifIf all the evidence points to Halal slaughter being less less-humane than stunning would everybody who's objected to Halal on welfare grounds in this thread start eating it?
why haven't we made it the law here? Why have we kept stunning and waived the various religious groups need to follow the rules. And I guess I should check, is that list bit correct? is it [b]only[/b] for religious reasons that you're exempt from stunning?all the evidence points to Halal slaughter being less less-humane
TBH I am too busy deciding whether I would rather be waterboarded or have to endure stress positions and loud music to work this out...can i get back to you once I work out which of those is most humane?
Oh do shut up.
Sir yes sir 😆
ignorant of and prejudiced towards.
No I have experience of muslims and Islam, how about you?
If you wish to discuss things like an adult
Oh yes we should all conduct ourselves like you. 😀
I mean
Come on keep it coming, it's compelling stuff.Oh do shut up.
If you wish to discuss things like an adult, like Cougar and others have (and I must say, Cougar has provided an excellent counter perspective),
You've been slating Cougar's (to name but one) discussion points throughout so it's a bit futile now trying to redeem yourself (again)by brown-nosing. As they say though, God loves a trier so you keep going.
Enjoy your Kosher products and just pray they are what they say on the packaging... 😉
Storm, tea cup. Whats the big deal? Its not as though they are pious, trustworthy people who tend to complain.
I think you're right, especially regarding his reference to Sharia law when you were talking about exemptions from EU law...
Well to be fair, that's not true. He referenced Sharia law in reference to thx asserting that selling non-halal food marked as halal is illegal, and my reply that AFAIK it wasn't legally protected in UK. We've yet to get a clarification from thx one way or the other as to what law (if any) he was referring to. Given fred only ever responds to cherry-picked questions he's confident he can pick apart, I suspect Patriotpro was correct.
It was nothing to do with exemptions, that was about the legality of halal butchery.
And I guess I should check, is that list bit correct? is it only for religious reasons that you're exempt from stunning?
I believe that the law specifically details permissible methods of slaughter within the EU (captive bolt, gassing, and, er, something else. Electrocution?). Halal butchery is not amongst these methods, but the law is waived for these groups. I'm less sure about Kosher, but I'd expect it's the same situation. To be fair, I'd have to look it up to be sure.
Putting my moderator hat on for a moment, I'd remind people that if they can't keep a civil tongue in their heads, they won't be allowed to play with nice toys. Less of the personal attacks please, or I'll get the hammer out.
Well as the only bit of scientific evidence I've read on the subject says that the knife it least painful and less likely to contaminate the rest of my succulent meats with my own brain matter (as it's for human consumption) I'll go for the big knife.If evidence is provided to the contrary (and not 'Some chap said it's really bad') I'm more than willing to re-consider.
It wasn't my quote, but I'd say you need to read more than one bit of scientific evidence, and one might consider putting the welfare of animals over the incredibly slim chance of humans contracting something from brain juice.
Junkyard - Member
TBH I am too busy deciding whether I would rather be waterboarded or have to endure stress positions and loud music to work this out...can i get back to you once I work out which of those is most humane?
It is pretty ridiculous, hence my "less less-humane" rather than "more humane" pedantry.
bigjim - Member
It wasn't my quote, but I'd say you need to read more than one bit of scientific evidence, and one might consider putting the welfare of animals over the incredibly slim chance of humans contracting something from brain juice.
Completely agree:
[url= http://www.rspca.org.uk/servlet/Satellite?blobcol=urlblob&blobheader=application/pdf&blobkey=id&blobtable=RSPCABlob&blobwhere=1109267162636&ssbinary=true ]RSPCA info[/url]
Which says 90% Halal slaughter is pre-stunned, but the non-pre stunned is more less humane.
Well to be fair, that's not true. He referenced Sharia law in reference to thx asserting that selling non-halal food marked as halal is illegal, and my reply that AFAIK it wasn't legally protected in UK. We've yet to get a clarification from thx one way or the other as to what law (if any) he was referring to. Given fred only ever responds to cherry-picked questions he's confident he can pick apart, I suspect Patriotpro was correct.It was nothing to do with exemptions, that was about the legality of halal butchery.
Thanks for the clarification. 'lifer' would have known that had he have actually read the thread and not just put his devil's advocate hat on.
and one might consider putting the welfare of animals
Yes its always important to consider the welfare of the animal you are about to slaughter ..i mean you dont want to mistreat it whilst killing it now do you 😕
It is pretty ridiculous
Yes as the above shows
Yes its always important to consider the welfare of the animal you are about to slaughter ..i mean you dont want to mistreat it whilst killing it now do you
awww junky, i'm almost tempted to jump on that and ask if you're suggesting as its going to be killed anyway, why dont we have some fun... or at least test some cosmetics on it... lipstick, bit of hugo boss aftershave, take some photos for facebook and tag it as hora's new bike, then kill it?
but i'm not going to take your question out of context.
so, why not consider its feelings before killing it? after all we like to think we treat old people nice before upping their morphine that bit extra to 'make sure they're comfortable... shouldn't animals have the right to as painless as possible death?
patriotpro - MemberThanks for the clarification. 'lifer' would have known that had he have actually read the thread and not just put his devil's advocate hat on.
Apologies, missed the
thx1138 - MemberAnd it's illegal to sell meat that is labelled as Halal, if it isn't
bit, thought you will still talking about slaughter.
Phil if we were to consider its feelings i feel pretty sure they would be please dont kill me but it is just possible they want to look and smell their best before killing them 😉
I think we both get each others point
(doubly appropriate seeing as we were originally discussing DNA...)
thought you will still talking about slaughter.
[i]Still[/i] talking about slaughter? I've not mentioned slaughter.
Calm down treacle, the discussion about legality began with talk of EU and UK exemptions for religious slaughter.
So it's decided then, we consult Holly.
the non-pre stunned is more less humane
you should be a politician with that level of undecipherable chat!
Lifer - Member
Calm down treacle,
1 out of 10 🙄
the discussion about legality began with talk of EU and UK exemptions for religious slaughter.
See Cougar's points and repeat until absorbed in to your grey-matter.
Anything that gets Muslims or any religious group bouncing about gets a thumbs up from me.
Anything that gets Muslims or any religious group bouncing about gets a thumbs up from me.
You like deliberately upsetting them ? Good for you, there's not enough of that sort of stuff in the world today. Far too many people are too relaxed about other people's religious beliefs.
If evidence is provided to the contrary (and not 'Some chap said it's really bad') I'm more than willing to re-consider.
is this still going?
the OP reminds me of one of these 2 people for some reason
[img] 
[/img]
They've both got more front than I have Kimberly (kimbers). 😉
If evidence is provided to the contrary (and not 'Some chap said it's really bad') I'm more than willing to re-consider.
Do let us know your new position after reconsidering it won't you?
Keep up.
They both see Islam for the deceitful, derogatory, bigoted, hypocritical, prehistoric nonsense that is too. Those two have more in common than I imagine you realise.
Malala Yousafzai is Muslim...
patriotpro - MemberThey both see Islam for the deceitful, derogatory, bigoted, hypocritical, prehistoric nonsense that is too. Those two have more in common than I imagine you realise.
You are [i]incredibly[/i] bad at this.
Cheers for your insight northwind, it's incredibly deep n insightful.
Lifer, Sorry, but I've given up trying with you.
Trying to do what?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21806574
These upstanding citizens must have caught wind of the chicken (pork) sausages scandal.
Is it the beards you like?
These upstanding citizens must have caught wind of the chicken (pork) sausages scandal.
Well done for trying to make some sort of tenuous link between being a terrorist and not eating pork.
Obviously there's no link but desperate measures are required when one clearly lacks the ability to provide an intelligent and sensible argument.
Let no one accuse you of not scraping the bottom of the barrel when it is required to do so.
Give yourself a pat on the back.
Pig slurry fertilizes the majority of vegetables eaten by UK muslims.
Slitting an animal's throat without pre-stunning is barbaric.
Ernie Lynch is a self confessed extremist.
It's raining outside.
After reading this thread its raining inside too..
mmmm.. bacon butties for brekkie 
enfht - MemberErnie Lynch is a self confessed extremist.
Which explains why I always argue in favour of religious tolerance and the right of people to believe whatever they want to believe 😀
You never disappoint enfht, you're always good value for money, thank you 😉
Which explains why I always argue in favour of religious tolerance and the right of people to believe whatever they want to believe
Of course, unless that belief impacts on others negatively.
Child genital mutilation, male or female?
Age of consent of 9?
Subjugation of women?
One must always be mindful that polite tolerance cannot be confused for cowardly condoning. It's how the Nazi party managed to commit so much evil unchallenged.
“All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.” Edmund Burke
Thomas Mann, "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil."
“It is curious that physical courage should be so common in the world and moral courage so rare.” Samuel Langhorne Clemens
"With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil—that takes religion.” Steven Weinberg
whoohoo! Nazis, always with the Nazis! This thread is overrrrr
Socialist Workers Party..... any members on here? Nice headlines today 😯
Reprehensible.
Someone remind me why I'm not religious or don't eat meat again!
Anyway, carry on....
Ernie Lynch, the voice of moderate Marxism. A contradiction in terms if ever there was one.
enfht, the intolerant right-wing daily mailer who likes to accuse others of extremism, and take irony to a whole new level 😀
It's a funny ol world isn't it ?
Seems no-one has anything has anything further to add to this discussion other than personal attacks. So I think we'll draw a line there.