You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
So in the first 8 days of monkey going to secondary school, the (only available) public bus has been pretty sh1t TBF.
i) It failed to turn up one morning, with there being no other bus available until 10am. I had to drop everything and drive him in
ii) It took a short cut through town one afternoon, therefore missing out the school bus stop. Once again, I did the pick up
iii) It didn't even run at all at school throwing out time yesterday afternoon, meaning another journey to collect him
Now, I know stuff happens and it's a public service blah blah, but this is the only available bus service for our area/school. Surely, for example, a bus driver can't choose to cut out a whole loop, especially when that loop has a stop for the school? FTR, when another parent did a recce a few weeks ago, the driver told her that he and other driver will do exactly that when they're running late - she thought he was joking. How is that allowed... especially when winter kicks in and 11 years old are left stranded in the cold, dark and pi55ing rain.
Before you ask, we live in a remote village where the only bus service (once in the morning and once in the afternoon) was removed 3 years ago. We now have only one bus available and we're not entitled to the free school bus because it's not our nearest school.
Any pointers appreciated as I'm going to be speaking to the school and bus company tomorrow.
Ta
Any pointers appreciated as I’m going to be speaking to the school and bus company tomorrow.
WEll this would have been my first step.. I'm not sure what else anyone can offer other than "ask them"
I wish you well
I work in a college where students arrive by bus. The service is often poor. I think they are short of drivers. But if feels like buses are for poor people and know one really cares.
Well done For interrupting your day to get him to school
we’re not entitled to the free school bus because it’s not our nearest school.
Likely needs more explanation as I was just about to ask what the other parents/school had to say on the matter. Locally, our school bus service does everything in its power to ensure the safety of the pupils
WEll this would have been my first step.. I’m not sure what else anyone can offer other than “ask them”
I'm hoping someone can shed some light on some kind of duty of care, if some such thing exists in the world of public transport. I can then present that to both parties.
I think they are short of drivers. But if feels like buses are for poor people and know one really cares.
That may be the case, but surely a driver can't knowingly leave a load of school kids stranded by avoiding their stop altogether?
we’re not entitled to the free school bus because it’s not our nearest school.
Likely needs more explanation
That's all there is to it because that's how it works round here.
what the other parents/school had to say on the matter
Only one other family use the same route in from a neighbouring village. We're pally with them and they're bloody annoyed too. Of the other kids that we know attending the same school, some car share because they live in another village, and others are scattered about for miles and either drive (mainly mums that don't have to work) or are allowed a free school bus.
Probably not the type of question you are looking for, although maybe expecting 😉 but what about sending junior to the nearest school?
I do sympathise though.
speak to the bus company.
any bus driver who misses out the part of the route that he knows his passengers need (i’m assuming that your son was in uniform) is deliberately being an arse.
i am always amazed how helpful bus drivers are in every country other than the ones i’ve experienced in the uk.
but what about sending junior to the nearest school?
We did our due diligence to put monkey into what we believe is the best school/environment. The fact it's 1.5 miles further than the nearest one is irrelevant IMO.
speak to the bus company.
any bus driver who misses out the part of the route that he knows his passengers need (i’m assuming that your son was in uniform) is deliberately being an arse.
All drivers on that route will know that particulate section of their run contains a school bus stop. Taking a short cut to omit it is not on, so yes, he and the other guys admitting to this are arseholes.
The Traffic Commissioner is your last resort. All public bus services are registered with the Traffic Commissioner and have to run to their registered route and timetables. They can be fined for not doing so (although it’s typically quite a process to get to that point). Good luck!
OR, a new driver with little familiarisation of the route, took a wrong turn.
I've done it myself.
but what about sending junior to the nearest school?
doesn't work like that sadly. Certainly round here in Sheffield you can be assigned a school way way further away than your closest (to the point that you can go past several oterh schools to get there) no matter what your order of perference was...
any bus driver who misses out the part of the route that he knows his passengers need (i’m assuming that your son was in uniform) is deliberately being an arse.
Sounds like the sort of ill-thought-out regulation that sees trains going straight through their scheduled stops without slowing down.
Bus company gets a fine if they run late, don't get a fine if they miss part of the route. Therefore tell drivers to take shortcuts to make up time (particularly if that shortcut misses a busy, time consuming, stop that leads to many other stops)...
That may be the case, but surely a driver can’t knowingly leave a load of school kids stranded by avoiding their stop altogether?
I don't really think the fact they are kids (of primary age) is necessarily the important thing. It could be pensioners etc. as well so if its the ONLY bus it's the ONLY bus and really should be acts of god type events prevent it running.
Don't take him into school, give him the day off. Wait for the school to complain, direct them to the bus company. 😁
More seriously:
I’m going to be speaking to the school and bus company tomorrow.
... is probably your first port of call. If it's not a 'school bus' but merely a bus that goes past the school then the school itself might have little influence? But it's certainly worth talking to the bus operators, they might be blissfully unaware that it happened.
Exactly the same situation here. We live in a village (albeit a stones throw from several small and large towns) and the school that covers our postcode is a South Staffs school that requires a coach.
Kids from the village attending this school (about 5 or 6 of them) are picked up without fail in a modern coach that gradually makes it's way to the school, picking up the others who aren't on mainstream routes.
We picked the (nearer) school which is in a different local authority - partly because my daughter preferred it, partly because my son went there and loved it, mostly because daughter's friends from primary were all going there.
We got her a standard West Midlands bus pass, and she does the couple of miles each way no problem.
Today though, bus just didn't show up. I was working from home today so it was no bother to take her, but normally I would be in the office.
I can't see a complaint going anywhere, if it happens again and I'm not there she'll have to go in late!
but what about sending junior to the nearest school?
Depends on individual circumstances though doesn't it? Not everyone is in the ideal assumed scenario. We have had similar this week with trains being late meaning being late for school, buses not even arriving. The journey is a bike ride (or drop off) > train > walk in the morning (no buses run early enough to make a morning bus journey viable) and a walk > bus > change bus in the afternoon.
My son is on the public bus to school as he's at a school just outside our catchment area. The service lately has been shocking, they're either late or are just cancelled at the last minute due to constant driver shortages. We've often had to run him to school or pick him up with him being late a few times due to it.
My wife says the contracted services for schools.and social services have also been really unreliable and causing issues. I think they've been looking into penalties for not fulfilling the contract.
My missus has the same problem. (Works in local high school admin).
We are rural as well with same problem but the school can't do anything, the contracts are let by the local council/LEA, any issues should be addressed to them as suggested already.
The number of calls that she has to field about school buses is enough to drive anyone up the wall. No pun intended. With parents blaming the school amongst a million other things!
I have to drive 30 minutes to a train station and back again, twice a day to drop my daughter off because public transport is poor in the countryside and we chose to send her to a better school.
If you make that choice you have to take responsibility for getting them there I think.
How far is the school?
When my daughter missed her bus or it didn't turn up she walked the 3 miles there.
Novel idea but being this is a cycle forum, is cycling an option? I appreciate may not be suitable for younger cyclists, or for many other reasons it may not be an option.
Surely you looked into this before??? you live in a rural location therefore you may have to drive. Our bus/trains dont run 100% to timetable every day and we are close to a city. my kids are sometimes late due to train delays. sometimes i have to collect them.
Can you not lift share with other parents? thats what we do for our kids (to a train station) who also dont go to the nearest school and therefore are not entitled to get a 'proper' school bus.
Surely you looked into this before???
Again, circumstances. Looking before, having a choice in the school etc may not have been an option.
If it's not the allocated school for your child (I know it's not always done on nearest school) then I doubt the school can help, they have no obligation to get your child to school and the local authority only have to help your child to the allocated school. As you've chosen another school I would imagine transport is your responsibility. Whether the bus company will be of help, quite possibly not if it's an obscure and unprofitable route.
Where in the country are you @spacemonkey? Just county is fine. I’m director of public transport in a city region so can offer some advice on what your options are.
Main points to know is that the Local Authority has a statutory obligation to provide a bus if your child is three or more miles via a safe walking route to their nearest available school. If parental choice applies then they have no requirement to provide a bus, though many Local Authorities do provide transport still.
Where the bus company in question does have a duty is in respect of safeguarding for the child; if they are contracted to provide home to school services they can’t just do the sorts of things you describe. I’d be having serious words with their MD if there was evidence of this kind of messing about.
Edit. PM me if you want more advice.
Thanks guys, appreciate your feedback.
I figured there'd be a few others in a similar situation, plus the usual "Why didn't just pick the nearest school to you to get a free bus service?" questions.
Bottom line is that we didn't/don't like either of the 2 nearest schools. Most parents default their kids to one in particular because of its location, but we'd rather our son went to a better environment. So yes, we looked into the bus thing and on paper, the timetable was sound. But nobody we knew used it because they lived in other locations and had other arrangements, ie official school buses, car shares or 'mummy drives because she doesn't have to work'. Car share not an option for us because of logistical reasons or we're not in those cliques.
Current school is 7 miles away, mostly country lanes, so cycling isn't an option for an 11 year old.
The Traffic Commissioner is your last resort. All public bus services are registered with the Traffic Commissioner and have to run to their registered route and timetables. They can be fined for not doing so (although it’s typically quite a process to get to that point). Good luck!
Ta, I'll bear that in mind if I need to escalate that far.
Bus company gets a fine if they run late, don’t get a fine if they miss part of the route. Therefore tell drivers to take shortcuts to make up time (particularly if that shortcut misses a busy, time consuming, stop that leads to many other stops)…
Yep, that's the one that's riling me. Ta for the heads up.
Where in the country are you @spacemonkey? Just county is fine. I’m director of public transport in a city region so can offer some advice on what your options are.
Ta for this. We're in Surrey.
Where the bus company in question does have a duty is in respect of safeguarding for the child; if they are contracted to provide home to school services they can’t just do the sorts of things you describe. I’d be having serious words with their MD if there was evidence of this kind of messing about.
They run a public service and include a couple of extra buses on school term days to suit kicking out time, so I'm unsure if that means they're contracted?
Car share not an option for us because of logistical reasons or we’re not in those cliques.
ask to get in teh clique. its a lift not a lifestyle! we have a rota with different parents (with kids in different years) doing different days. i get roped in for emergencies as i`ve got a 6 seater van and can be a bit flexible or teh kids wait in teh library or a cafe for the next bus/train.
Is your van called Helen?
No. the current ones are called Fungus the Bogey Van and Wolfey respectively.
my old one was called 'Van halen' though. it had a copy of Jump in the tape deck when i got it and so it was named!
^ I assumed one must have been given your user name 🙂
i love a good van.
Van Halen was great. a t2 early bay with full denim interior, full length sunroof and a mirrored mini bar. lowered so far it scraped on the floor on any meaningful bump and a pointlessly loud exhaust.
I think if it's a public service bus you're on a hiding to nothing. The extra buses at various times will be to take the extra footfall but unless they are contracted school buses then there's no difference between your child and any other member of the public. Contracted school bus would be different as they will run the route to the times you'd expect.
We have a few kids and staff who hav to come by car as the service bus timetable puts them either an hour to early or 25 minutes too late for school. But provider says it's fine for lots of other paying passengers so ...
They run a public service and include a couple of extra buses on school term days to suit kicking out time, so I’m unsure if that means they’re contracted?
Possibly, they may just be running extra buses if they think it is of commercial advantage (ie can make more money) or it could be that Surrey CC pay them to run them during term time. There isn’t an easy way to find out but you could try writing to Surrey CC (Katie Stewart by the look of it) and ask them to confirm what tendered services they provide on that route and for that school, and explain your issues to her too in doing so.
Edit. Send it to Katie and Lucy Monie, Head of Service too.
Speak to your local elected councillor.
(The council are sort of in charge of bus-routes and their power may be limited, but this is your starting point. They may also subsidise the affected bus route).
Pretty sure that at least in our county (Derbyshire) that buses are the responsibility of the County Council rather than the local council. I don’t have the issues about out of area transport but pretty much all the local service buses only exist because of a County Council subsidy so they have quite a lot of influence when it comes to getting companies to get there act together.
Yep, transport is almost always a local authority or city region responsibility as they act as the transport authority also (I’ll not bore you with the exceptions).
There’s no harm in writing to your councillor, or MP, but all they’ll do is contact the transport team in the LA (the names I listed above). I get anywhere where between 10 or 20 of these a week typically.
Get him a Surron.
We went through similar hassle with our school bus service for over a year. It’s a private company contracted by the local authority to provide an expensive and unreliable service, although it got better eventually after all the complaints.
Late or not turning up at all was very common. They also used busses with too little capacity, so they’d fill up before they got to us and drive straight past the stops leaving groups of kids stranded.
I suggest contacting the local authority department as well as the school and bus company.
In our case it’s the nearest school and we’re in catchment, but as you say it’s not relevant. Bus companies have local authority contracts to provide a service.
Surely if it's the school you have been allocated then you should be entitled to a school bus or taxi?!
You can report them to your local transport commissioner, who will be at the local authority, that's your only real course of action, bar liaising with the bus company.
The reality of this issue is that bus companies are struggling for drivers and funding, local authorities are cutting back, and bus services are being reduced, i know around our area we're going from 4 or 5 services to 2, lack of drivers and reduction in grants and funding, and as always, rural routes tend to be hardest hit, as they tend to be low usage and mainly people with free travel passes or concessions.
surely a driver can’t knowingly leave a load of school kids stranded by avoiding their stop altogether?
How many kids get on at that stop?
If it's more than just yours then maybe look at setting up your own lift share or even a taxi.
TBH, as a parent living in the sticks, I wouldn't rely on a public bus to get kids to school.
Even when I was at school the phrase "the bus didn't turn up" was common.
Rural areas are difficult to run buses in as they are frequently affected by outside influences - floods, car crashes, roadworks, cattle, etc.
Nice to know nothing's changed in the 20 years since I was at secondary school. Back then buses also failed to turn up at all, or were prohibitively late, drivers verbally assaulting kids regularly and many many times they'd just drive straight past a stop if they saw school kids there because they didn't want to pick them up, even when the bus was nowhere near full. I had to take 4 buses a day and they made my life hell for no reason.
If you have to deal with someone like First Bus, good luck trying to complain. They'll just gaslight you and tell you how wrong you are and that the driver is always in the right.
Happy days.
Unofficial rule was if the bus didn't arrive by 815 it was late and therefore we could justify going home.
So many times the bus would come round the corner at 81451 etc to the whole village sprinting away from the stop!
We've had another let down (three times in two weeks). Child was waiting for the bus, sign said it would arrive in a minute. A minute later and the sign changed again, then another minute, then another... 30 minutes later he texted my wife to let her know. She was in the middle of something (many miles from where he was with one of our daughters). Fortunately, I was working from home so I had to break off from a meeting and go to collect him. It's a $%*&ing disgrace.
Surely if it’s the school you have been allocated then you should be entitled to a school bus or taxi?!
Again, as I have said several times on this thread, circumstances may be different. Ours are.
Again, as I have said several times on this thread, circumstances may be different. Ours are.
This.
OP has said it's not the allocated school, means (like several of us here) that from time to time we have to jump in the car.