[Closed] POLITICIAN IN LYING SHOCKER!!

[img] [/img] just seeing his smug face makes me mad 😡 what a tool!

He really does have a face I want to punch so thanks for that link - it took me one step closer to achieving my dream!

As a prospective teacher (starting training in two weeks) I don't actually believe anything this cretin says

eg.

[url= https://www.education.gov.uk/publications/eOrderingDownload/CM-7980.pdf ]Increase freedom and autonomy for all schools, removing unnecessary duties and burdens, and allowing all schools to choose for themselves how best to develop.

and

Increase the authority of teachers to discipline pupils by trengthening their powers to search pupils, issue same day detentions and use reasonable force where necessary.[/url]

both these statements would, in an ideal world, make teaching easier but I just don't beleive it will

So, he was told that he should only award an exceptional grade for outstanding work?

sounds like a disaster waiting to happen... I'm outraged

So, he was told that he should only award an exceptional grade for outstanding work?

No, he was giving a mark desverving of the grade according to the marking scheme but was asked to move the goal posts so to speak. For what reason is anyone's guess but I suspect it's so Gove can say the GCSE has had its day so he can push through his baccalaurate idea!

No Z 11 there were already criteria that identified exceptional work, but now further vague criteria were being added to that, I could give you specific details, but you're not really bothered in understanding it, are you...

Can any of ye teachers name a secretary of state for education that you considered to be excellent, thoughtful, effective etc?
Just as a point of comparison that might show you're not the world's biggest bunch of moaning moaners from moanington.

So who are we to believe - a man who has risen to high office or a teacher (FFS)?
If I had a pound for every lie I'd been told by a teacher.....

So who are we to believe - a man who has risen to high office through no obvious merits or a teacher who has worked hard to get to their current position, works massive amounts of unpaid overtime and has their morale constantly eroded by a succession of career politicians.

FIFY

Can any of ye teachers name a secretary of state for education that you considered to be excellent, thoughtful, effective etc?

Can't think of many who have been qualified for the job either, i.e. experience in education beyond being a pupil.

Can't think of many who have been qualified for the job either, i.e. experience in education beyond being a pupil.

and not privately educated.

I've forgotten her name, but there was a (new) labour one who I think actually had some classroom experience. She's the least worst I can think of. The problem is every single one of the ****ers wants to make their mark, selling it as changes for the better, when in fact most of the time they are change for change's sake at best, and driven by plain wrong ideology at worst.

If I had a pound for every lie I'd been told by a teacher I would be billions poorer than someone who had a pound for every lie told by a politician

In what sort of universe do politicians have more respect and are viewed as more truthful than teachers?

Lolling very loud at Zulu. Only an unabashed right wing zealot like him could defend someone like Gove. Even Tories think he's one of the greatest ****s ever to be handed the Education brief.

http://www.politicshome.com/uk/article/23257/gove_of_toad_hall.html

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headfirst - Member
I've forgotten her name, but there was a (new) labour one who I think actually had some classroom experience. She's the least worst I can think of. The problem is every single one of the ****ers wants to make their mark, selling it as changes for the better, when in fact most of the time they are change for change's sake at best, and driven by plain wrong ideology at worst.

Gillian Shephard was a teacher. But she was a tory.

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Capt, I was thinking of Estelle Morris. Inoffensive but also ineffectual.

Do those who mark actually award a grade, or just a mark - from which a decision regarding grade boundaries is reached?

from which a decision regarding grade boundaries is reached?

why would this change? surely a grade associate with a mark will always be the case, changing boundaries in different years is just unfair.

Just to add to this my daughter had her results today and TBH they are worse than we had hoped for.

But I have no idea if this indication of changing the grades this year has had any impact on her results or she just didn't do that well.

It would be nice to know though.

Vortexracing, presumably the actual marks required for a certain grade would be different each year depending on how easy/difficult the exam paper was viewed by the moderators?

I was working on the principle that each year the exams, although different, would be of a similar difficulty.

My mistake 😳

The age old debate does a certain mark = a certain grade each year or should only the top 10 % each year get an A and the top 3 % an A*

Both have weaknesses and problems.

I think everyone should just get a badge saying "Well Done - Thanks for Trying Your Hardest"

Then we could all go into the big job lottery and get something random like builder, plumber, brain surgeon and stuff. Be much fairer.

If the best results get the best marks and grades whats the problem? Most will be taken in context with the pupils from this year.

What would the reaction be if grades had gone up for the nth year in a row?

some very upset teachers on newsnight

sounds like its been handled shambolically

some very upset teachers on newsnight

lol in no offence to the teachers I know but this is not news 🙂 there always like that

Another example of the shambles is the introduction of terminal exams, you could argue no bad thing just having exams at the end. But aqa have said "yes sir mr gove" and just moved all the exams to the end so a kid doing triple science will now have 9 science exams in june of their final year.

Another example of the shambles is the introduction of terminal exams, you could argue no bad thing just having exams at the end. But aqa have said "yes sir mr gove" and just moved all the exams to the end so a kid doing triple science will now have 9 science exams in june of their final year.

Is that not what we used to do? Sure I did all my GCSE's in one go.

When i was at school, quite a few years ago, GCE and CSE were separate exams.We generally took exams in 8 subjects and at GCE if you got A,B or C grade you had done well.If you managed it in 4 or more subjects you would have been in the top 10% of pupils in the school.
I've just seen on tv a school with 100% pass grades.The head teacher says for a pupil to receive a fail is demotivating.
Does this mean that no one fails in exams ? Surely this approach devalues the point of exams.

School playing fields anyone? Hes interfered, overturned and approved many many sales of playing fields in just 18months and said he hadnt...

Mikewsmith, we did terminal exams yes but they were proper final exams with one paper for each subject ( two at a level) we didnt do 3 exams for each subject that were wrtten to be done in a modular system just after the work has been done. gove wanted the changes to happen before the exam boreds were able to change the courses or rewrite exams.

anagallis_arvensis - Member
Mikewsmith, we did terminal exams yes but they were proper final exams with one paper for each subject ( two at a level) we didnt do 3 exams for each subject that were wrtten to be done in a modular system just after the work has been done. gove wanted the changes to happen before the exam boreds were able to change the courses or rewrite exams.

Were you at school with me?

I actually did both - for other reasons such as the teachers screwed up, in my A-level years some of the biology A-levels studies the wrong exam board syllabus for 1 term.

I found modular exams flipped from hard to easy too much. Also asking people to take subjects earlier was also tougher.

No system is perfect.

One of last year's GCSE physics papers. And you wonder why exam boards were told to mark to a harder level this time around?

Problems with that paper (and before you ask, yes, it's Higher Tier) include:

* The whole thing is multiple choice. How are students supposed to demonstrate that they can make a reasoned argument on the basis of evidence given to them?

* It's simplistic in the extreme.

* Ooh, wind farms and solar panels...

* "An 11W compact fluorescent lamp emits the same amount of light as a 60W incandescent..." No, it bloody well doesn't so don't ask questions based on it.

* Absolutely no questions along the lines of "Identify the problems in this experiment", or "Why can't this data be trusted?"

Using children as pawns in a political game is disgusting in the extreme, but no one can argue that there's a fundamental problem with GCSEs as they stand today.

Absolutely nothing in these exams provides or rewards the intellectual rigour needed at A-Level, University, and beyond. In 20 years time kids that have scored A grades in exams like these will be making decisions that affect millions of people.

Teachers were happy to accept the farcical marking and grading which allowed more children to receive higher grades year on year for decades - even though this effectively devalued the efforts of more able and dedicated children. Purely because it gave the illusion that teachers were doing a better job.

Employers, parents and children need an exam system that gives an honest impression of the abilities and weaknesses of pupils so that those who have worked hard and done well get some value from their qualifications, and those who have worked less hard and done less well can actually see where they need to improve.

Of course the DoE will have handled the transition badly. That's their modus operandi.

Teachers were happy to accept the farcical marking and grading which allowed more children to receive higher grades year on year for decades - even though this effectively devalued the efforts of more able and dedicated children. Purely because it gave the illusion that teachers were doing a better job.

Know many teachers do you? In my experience this is not the case.

Employers, parents and children need an exam system that gives an honest impression

Difficult to argue with this.

and before you ask, yes, it's Higher Tier

no it isnt its both the higher questions start at number 17...

its a P1a module so its half a module of the first few topics done in year 10 it is not in anyway demonstrative of what GCSE physics is about in total. Only P1a and P1b can be multiple choice you then have P2 and P3 to do longer written exams.

Absolutely no questions along the lines of "Identify the problems in this experiment", or "Why can't this data be trusted?"

question 23, question 31

Teachers were happy to accept the farcical marking and grading which allowed more children to receive higher grades year on year for decades - even though this effectively devalued the efforts of more able and dedicated children. Purely because it gave the illusion that teachers were doing a better job.

your mistaking teachers and politicians. Teachers just try and get the best grades for pupils we dont have any say in what we teach them or how its testsed.

Of course the DoE will have handled the transition badly.

I thought Philip had been in hospital?

your mistaking teachers and politicians. Teachers just try and get the best grades for pupils we dont have any say in what we teach them or how its testsed.

In this case, you can't have it both ways - Gove is being castigated for doing precisely the opposite of what you suggest - introducing a policy to produce lower grades. Can't deny that in general, though, politicians are happy for grades to rise.

I'm sure many teachers have raised an eyebrow over the years at both the ridiculously easy content of the GCSE content and the ever-increasing grades, but local papers are stuffed with stories every August with happy quotes from local headteachers about yet another record-breaking year.

None of it means that teachers are doing a worse job, of course.

Gove is being castigated for doing precisely the opposite of what you suggest - introducing a policy to produce lower grades.

No, Gove is being castigated for handling the whole process like a Grade A ****wit. If you change any system, there needs to be careful testing of the new structure before it is released. There then needs to be a concentrated communication programme explaining the changes and what the new grades will mean. You don't just devalue a whole bunch of results by downgrading them *after* the exams have been sat!

Gove is an ego-driven idiot pursuing his own agenda regardless of what others think.

Woman (a headteacher, I think) on breakfast TV said that the standard of education has gone up over the last 23 years, with help from Offsted reports and league tables.
Surely not many teachers are really that deluded? (My wife isn't)

Gove is an ego-driven idiot pursuing his own agenda regardless of what others think.

the entire bible thing shows him up for the self agrandising **** that he is

its also the fact that hes now denying that he had a hand in downgrading the grades

If you change any system, there needs to be careful testing of the new structure before it is released.

aw bless the public sector - do it and deal with it

aw bless the public sector - do it and deal with it

Don't work in the public sector, never have. However I have seen how badly managed change can have catastrophic events. Still it's only children's futures that he's ****ing about with, not like it's anything important.

anagallis_arvensis - just looked at P3, a far more sensible paper. Particularly like the way it moves from the history and principles of the scientific discoveries to practical applications.

Gove is an ego-driven idiot pursuing his own agenda regardless of what others think.

Absolutely. Even in the world of Westminster and the monstrous planet-sized ego's involved, he sticks out as someone who considers himself as some kind of Roman Emperor, issuing diktats at will, then ordering minions to 'make it so.

Remember his announcement not long back that GCSE's were to be scrapped and O levels re-introduced. Seems that when it was announced via press release, with suitably great media fanfare, that this was news to everybody except himself, including Dave and everyone at the DOE

So as from today THIS will be policy in all schools. Why? Because I've just thought of it, and I said so. So there!

The bloke is an absolute weapons-grade bell end!!!

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As kind-of an outside observer (I'm Scottish) - what is it about the English education system? Your politicians seem obsessed with messing about with it all the time, even before waiting to see the results of the last time they mucked about with it.

The Scottish education system has changed very little from when I left it almost 20 years ago. It's just not a big political punchbag the way it is south of the border.

This isn't an England-bashing question, I'm honestly interested why there's such a difference. Is it as simple as Scotland is more Socialist, like the teaching unions?

Gove is being castigated for doing precisely the opposite of what you suggest - introducing a policy to produce lower grades.

Not sure what your point is, what did I suggest?
Gove is being Castgated for residing over a shambles and then saying he had nothing to do with it.
Just saw a friend who marks papers, she said the a level papers in Jan were marked much more harshly, whether this is right or wrong isnt the question, the question is who said the papers should be harder, it was Gove. He is now saying it wasnt him.
As an aside she also raised another good point, when GCSE's go terminal and all 9 papers have to be marked at the same time who is going to do all that marking? How will it be done in time?

Your politicians seem obsessed with messing about with it all the time, even before waiting to see the results of the last time they mucked about with it.

Very good point and the reason for this is ego, both at a party and personal level. There is a culture of having to be seen to make your mark regardless of whether what you are tampering with works or not.

Here's a 1979 physics O level for comparison.
[url] http://www.slideshare.net/fullscreen/telescoper/o-level-physics-1979/1 [/url]

I understand how people feel with the change of marking and the grades given. I was in the last year to do O levels and we were basically ignored by the teachers who were concentrating on the then new GCSE's.

From an employer though I see CV's from applicants with straight A's in their results.The differences between these applicants is immense with basic spelling and grammar mistakes. I no longer look at their results as they have become irrelevant and would welcome some tougher grading. I would look at 2012 GCSE grades more favourable than prior results, hopefully other employers and further education will do so too. It may have been a better idea to differentiate these grades and future grades with something like "Revised GCSE" so other people can tell the difference

"I understand how people feel with the change of marking and the grades given"

Are you sure? Yesterday my son received his results for his Part1 GCSE's. All marks and grades were fine with reasonable concordance, except English. A score of 81% in the exam produced..... a grade C! In other subjects the same percentage scored him an A.

You'd be pleased with >80% in an exam, no? Perhaps less pleased with a C. I am well aware of standardized normal distributions, but give that standardized percentage and a grade, or just the grade or just the percentage. Needless to say the English teacher, and most of the pupils and parents are not impressed.

Flaperon - Member

Absolutely nothing in these exams provides or rewards the intellectual rigour needed at A-Level, University, and beyond. In 20 years time kids that have scored A grades in exams like these will be making decisions that affect millions of people.

Don't lump the intellectual rigour needed at A-level in with degree level assessments. A-levels are more like GCSE than higher education from my experience.

In 20 years time kids who scored A grades at GCSE will have 20 years more education and experience behind them to help them make decisions. Anyway, when you do A-levels you get told the stuff you covered a GCSE was wrong, and if you go to uni the same happens for A-levels.

So who are we to believe - a man who has risen to high office or a teacher (FFS)?

So who are we to believe - a man who has risen to high office or a teacher (FFS)?

Given the choice of believing Michael Gove or just about anyone else, including tabloid journalists, its a no brainer. I wouldn't trust a single one of this shower as far as I could throw them!