You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
ID Cards - gone
Biometric Passports - no
Database of our kids - gone
Peaceful protest restrictions - out
Plus plenty of other stuff, all good with me (like, for example, an elected House of Lords (partial anyway)) all announced today by Nick Clegg.
I hope they're serious, and i hope they get on with it. This is is exactly what we need, imo. I don't want to live in Orwell's future.
Edit - that's George Orwell, not the duck.
Database of our kids - gone
Leaving less regulated databases in each local authority holding much more sensitive data....
All databases are regulated by Data Protection Act - at least we won't have a detailed profile of every UK person held nationwide.
It was all in the plan!
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Plan-Twelve-Months-Renew-Britain/dp/0955979900
8)
Now we're talking, all hail the new government, all hail the great repeal bill! Lets make Britain Great again!
Yup, it all sounded pretty positive.
The sceptic in me isn't totally convinced, but I'll give them the benefit of doubt for the moment.
Now they just need to add the Digital Economy Bill to that list!
At least they're saying the right thing, the doing is a different matter. But - they're not likely to do without saying first!
All databases are regulated by Data Protection Act - at least we won't have a detailed profile of every UK person held nationwide.
So I can move across county borders /database lines so that my neglect of my children/abuse/criminality etc is never fully noticed.
FWIW CAF will be nationwide to prevent this and is absolutley essential for the protection of at risk /vulnerable children. Not all databases are bad.
The databases for CAF is highly restricted we need to do writter requests at present to the Data Controller for our organisation. Our database has sensitive info though on every young person in the county aged 13-19.
I agree with the removal of the rest
Yup, it all sounded pretty positive.
The sceptic in me isn't totally convinced, but I'll give them the benefit of doubt for the moment.
Took the words right out of my mouth. It's certainly a good start, though, and demonstrates a much more appealing approach to Government than has been evident over the last few decades.
All sounds good, i am sure the all the criminals and illegal immigrants will be doing kart-wheels! 🙄
I believe that the crimina DNA database in England and Wales will be brought into line with the Scottish system so that your details will only be kept if you are actually convicted of a crime. Not sure if this has been announced but I remember it being mentioned earlier.
Junkyard, while I agree that not all databases are bad I'm puzzled as to why a database containing sensitive information about every young person in the country is needed. I can see an argument for keeping data on some young people (i.e. those at risk) but why everyone?
As for an elected second chamber, I'm not entirely convinced that this a good idea. The fact that the members of the upper house don't have to bow to public opinion is a strengh as they can come up with considered opinions without having to pay any heed to tabloid headlines. They have also done their best to try to curb the excesses of the commons which in the past few years has been no bad thing. As ever with this sort of thing the devil will be in the detail.
The Socialist in me is twitching, and looking on in hope more thaqn expectation. Political reform is the biggy, and I still can't see Turkeys voting for Christmas. Pretty sure the bill if it ever comes will be a free vote, and the majority of MPs are LAbour/Tory and therefore stand to lose out. Therefore its probably dead in the water before it starts IMHO.
Out of interest anyone watch BBC breakfast this am? Disadvantaged kids 7 times less likely to get to university etc etc. System gravitates against them blah blah. Thats the real problem. Basically we need to kick out the jobs for the boys, and get on with getting the best out of the best people. Can't see the Oxbridge/Eton crowd going along with that, sadly.
OT: Berm Bandit - Read Malcolm Gladwell's Outliers for an interesting insight into how opportunity is (virtually) everything when it comes to getting on in life - and it takes several generations and quite a lot of luck and circumstance to change the pattern.
Can't see the Oxbridge/Eton crowd going along with that, sadly.
Agreed.
This coalition government now provides an excellent opportunity for the wealth and privilege gap in this country to get even larger!
Basically we need to kick out the jobs for the boys, and get on with getting the best out of the best people. Can't see the Oxbridge/Eton crowd going along with that, sadly.
Out of interest is that really the case in most industries (or even academia)? I've never felt any benefit of it sadly 😉
And I think it need pointing out yet again that many Labour politicians (particularly the more senior ones) hardly match the romantic image of the working class lad/lass done good...
Nothing like waiting a few weeks or so to see eh?
I can't see how you think the Lib Dems are representing the upper class elite. They specifically undertake to assist the lower paid. I hope they manage it.
Database of our kids - gone
If you are refering to Contact Point I understand that all it does is gleen basic contact information form other LA databases so that when you look a child up you can see who their school/doctor/health visitor/social worker is. I don't think personal information is available through it (not sure about home address though).
It doesn't hold any more information than is already present, but it means a social worker can quickly find the appropriate contacts rather than spend a morning phoning round various governmental bodies to establish this basic info.
Note: access to these databases is tightly restricted - not available to general public.
Pretty sure the bill if it ever comes will be a free vote, and the majority of MPs are LAbour/Tory and therefore stand to lose out. Therefore its probably dead in the water before it starts IMHO.
One of the Lib Dems was saying the other day that the Tories would be whipped on this vote, and so the bill should get passed to hold the referendum on electoral reform.
That doesn't however stop the Tories campaigning against it at the referendum.
Junkyard, while I agree that not all databases are bad I'm puzzled as to why a database containing sensitive information about every young person in the country is needed. I can see an argument for keeping data on some young people (i.e. those at risk) but why everyone?
I see your point but we have Young people move here - usually vulnerable and confused and with issues it takes about 2 months to do a data transfer from the previous area to find out all the issues etc. One example was a guy with learning difficulties moving here from a care home to "live " with his girlfriend and Mum when all they wanted was his benefits. It was not obvious form meeting him thathehad a disability or that he was that vulnerable.
We have the database of everyone anyway - National Insurance, tax for example the better question is what we should do with these /who should have access. I agree with the countrywide database but with only a very limited number of people who can access it in every area for child protection issues. This is pretty much what CAF does - this is more a register of the at risk/vulenrable kids than every kid as it stops the need for a natiowide database whislt still allowing child protection/vulnerability/ TAC issues to be checked nationally. Each Local Authority should have aperson [ orpersons] who can check the dtabase and apaper record kept as to why the check was made. The database then records who hss searched for whom etc.
Abusers are clever and they move area when it looks like they may get found out and then services start again with no knowledge.
Out of interest is that really the case in most industries (or even academia)? I've never felt any benefit of it sadlyAnd I think it need pointing out yet again that many Labour politicians (particularly the more senior ones) hardly match the romantic image of the working class lad/lass done good...
Well that really is the point clubber. What you are saying is that you can't now get on even there without the privilege by and large. Personally, that’s why I've always like Preser, because he was a warts and all guy and clearly human. If you follow his career he was also vilified for it, presumably for being an upstart, (see the comments just today about him “Being caught playing crochet”.)
Personally I’ve got no problems at all with people making their way in life and doing well for themselves, but I do have a problem with inequality of opportunity. In essence my view is that if you limit your recruitment to a very limited selection, say one family for example, it is inevitable that you will not get the best calibre person available for your position. Expand that out across GB plc, and you can clearly see the problem.
What I would prefer to see is bright kids being fast tracked, less able kids being supported, and a clear recognition, that every individual has potential. It is everyone’s responsibility to help them find it. Anything less and you will find in time that we will be the cheap manufacturing base for the world, on low wages and doing low skill labour. Remember we still talk about 50% university attendance as an aspiration, FFS!!!
Politics is a very different 'industry' to most others though and there is undoubtedly an element of the old boys network there (as far as I can work out it's because politicians aren't really held to account on performance and seems to attract people who still act like kids in the playground...) I don't think you can take that as the norm elsewhere.
Most industries these days are too competitive for people to be able to play the old boys' network game as they need people who can actually perform...
clubber - look at the preponderance of public school and oxbridge graduates in the boardrooms and the preponderance of white men.
Its clear that the old boys network still exists.
In our boardroom we have an English man, Scottish Man, American and a French man.
Its a complete joke.
"Oxbridge/Eton crowd going along with that, sadly. "
I resent the idea that just because you went to Cambridge you automaticaly become a worse person and obviously somehow have gained that place at the expense of the transexual lesbian addopted offspring of an imigrant yorkshire coal miner*.
I was offered a place, I made a lot of good friends at the interviews, and supprise supprise they were all completely normal people**.
*everyone is equal, the transexual lesbian addopted offspring of an imigrant yorkshire coal miner, does in fact have an equal chance of getting in, if they are as academicaly successfull and get through the interviews and assessments.
** the interviews are streamed, first evening/day is the state schools and less elite public schools, second evening/day was the eaton, repton, etc crowd. Guess which group ended up down the pub getting mashed the night before the engineering maths exam 😀
they were all completely normal people
[cough]rubbish[/cough] 😉
clubber - look at the preponderance of public school and oxbridge graduates in the boardrooms and the preponderance of white men.
In our boardroom we have an Italian (at the top), a many Scots (Several coloured) and a few English. YMMV.
Its clear that the old boys network still exists.
Of course to some extent people will prefer the status quo, but I dont think it's quite as insidious as you make out, just a case of fewer go for it through the continued perception that they'd have no chance...
I can't see how you think the Lib Dems are representing the upper class elite.
Other than the fact that Clegg is, of course, a millionaire.
Wonder who amongst you will be saying 'hurrah for the coalition' when the cost of borrowing starts going through the roof.
Wonder who amongst you will be saying 'hurrah for the coalition' when the cost of borrowing starts going through the roof.
Would have happened anyway.
clubber - look at the preponderance of public school and oxbridge graduates in the boardrooms and the preponderance of white men.
Well the 'men' bit of it is far more complex than just 'old boys network' - there's all sorts of issues about women's equality at work plus the 'typical' expectation for mother to either stay at home or work less than full time.
As to 'white', well that's down to socioeconomic issues just as much if not more than the old boys network I'd bet. I suppose that you could argue that they're connected but then as far as my experience suggests, there are plenty of white men in the board rooms who aren't from public school background (maybe this is less true in the big bluechip companies but across the wider range of companies in the country rather than just 'headline' ones) though they are typically white and not from very deprived areas (eg maybe working class background but not from the stereotypical 'sink estates'). Non-white people are disproportionately represented in the poorer areas so that tends to follow.
Ermm.. surely interest rates were so low that they can only go up - it's a one way bet.
There's a big difference in going up as they're bound to do and 'going through the roof'. I just don't trust the tories to run the economy well.
Yes, after all Labour would never induce a debt fuelled consumer led boom and bust whilst presiding over the demise of industry and putting all the eggs in the city of London basket and wasting North Sea gas on electricity production. Nope.
Now they just need to add the Digital Economy Bill to that list!
Quite. Highly pernicious, and utterly wrong-headed. Like way to much NewLab legislation
everyone is equal, the transexual lesbian addopted offspring of an imigrant yorkshire coal miner, does in fact have an equal chance of getting in, if they are as academicaly successfull and get through the interviews and assessments.
Unfortunately due to the inequities of the education system - amazingly you get a better education if you pay £25 k per year for it- they dont actually have an equal chance of passing the exam do they. Most stste schoolds dont do a lot of latin or classics either. It is why the intake of Oxbridge does not represent the % of people in state v private schools. It has amuch higher intake from private schools. In a sense you have the equality of opportunity at the selection point for oxbridge but no equality for the precedding years of education as the fee paying people get a far superior education
Most stste schoolds dont do a lot of latin or classics either.
Well they used to...
[i]boom and bust[/i] and the tory government go hand in hand. You know, let the economy manage itself and all that.
to go back to the OP i do find this all very amusing.
One of the reasons for labour not getting elected at the end of the 80s / early 90s was the idea they were soft on crime - a call made very often.
Labour made a deliberate shift to a more authoritarian stance to paint The conservatives as soft on crime and force the conservatives into some very uncomfortable places either supporting authoritarian legislation ( which they mainly did) or being painted as soft on crime.
Now we have the situation where the libertarian wing of the tories can join with the liberals to take a much more liberal stance and outflank labour, capturing what is traditional Labour ground
How long before the tories are being painted as soft on crime by the Murdoch press?
Very funny how this one has played out. Of course the human rights act still sees a Tory party at its authoritarian best - they really do not like anyone to be able to challenge government. That one will be interesting
Seriously, the Malcolm Gladwell book is very enlightening on this subject. For example he shows examples where the quality of schools is shown up to be far more of a class, money in the family and cultural difference than anything else. The intrinsic "quality" of the school can be an illusion. And its an enjoyable read too.
Despite the tory rhetoric pre-election, haven't they quietly dropped the bit about trying to get rid of the Euro Human Rights act and said that the UK one they're proposing will conform to it?
EDIT - quick google confirms it:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/libertycentral/2010/may/19/human-rights-act-human-rights
Perhaps the reason why people are not going to the "top" universities is because they cannot afford to?
I mean, since grants to go to uni have died a death, who can really afford it without significant help from their parents?
The main reason for that is quite simply that there's a limited pot of money and too many people going to university to share it between!
Some years ago we had less people going to uni and could afford to subsidise people from the poorest backgrounds - since then we've dumbed down the universities and manipulated civil service entry requirements to make a degree a prerequisite in posts where 20 years ago a BTEC or HNC was enough, then forced more people to uni on made up courses in pursuit of the mythical 50% goal.
Jobs for the boys? nah, destruction of social mobility through misguided social engineering!
Thanks for the return to the OP, TJ. I was very much behind Labour, and have been very much kicked in the teeth by them every step of the way ever since. They pupported to be one thing and then abused their power to become the opposite. I do actually carry a general enthusiasm for the new government - well I do for the Lib element of it anyway, and the Con crew aren't going to find it very easy to do the kind of dirty work that they might be expected to do because the Libs will have it covered already.
Scrapping ID cards has spared me the trouble of becoming a criminal, because I had no intention of getting one.
and the Con crew aren't going to find it very easy to do the kind of dirty work that they might be expected to do because the Libs will have it covered already.
Fingers crossed because that was exactly what I was hoping for...
Scrapping ID cards has spared me the trouble of becoming a criminal, because I had no intention of getting one
Likewise.
A load of bollox to [i]my[/i] ears.
The economy has been screwed by the bankers, everyone is expected to pay for [i]their[/i] fukups. So ordinary working people will now get shafted with more tax , less public services and more job losses. But what does the public school educated Guardian reading leader of the LibDems think is the most pressing issue confronting ordinary British people ? .........ID cards and the House of lords, ffs.
I have nothing in principle, against Britain falling into line with just about every other country in the world and introducing ID cards, my only concerns were it's application.
And I also don't have a problem with cctv cameras, which apparently Clegg has - with all his "surveillance society" rhetoric. Which is kind of strange when you consider that in one of the televised debates Clegg stated that a solution to an alleged increase in burglaries, was "more bobbies on the beat". Now he didn't actually explain how this would reduce burglaries, but I assume that "more bobbies on the beat" would mean more coppers carrying out "surveillance exercises".
As far as the House of lords is concerned, yes of course there is no place for an unelected legislative/cameral in a democratic society. But there also isn't any place for a monarch. However these are hardly the most pressing issues. And not ones which in any way hinder the ability to deal with the real urgent issues.
How typical of a Guardian reader to believe that the most immediate priorities which affect ordinary people are, PR, the House of Lords, ID cards, and cctv. And not prices, jobs, housing, and services.........I bet the ordinary punter in the street hardly bothers to consider those issues - engrossed as he is worrying about PR and the House of Lords *rolls eyes*
Ernie, about to talk to a misguided member of the public with 'incorrect priorities'...
[img] 
[/img]
Remember citizens:
Help the Ministry of Information Help You.
Be Safe: Be Suspcious.
Suspicion Breeds Confidence.
Trust in Haste, Regret at Leisure.
Don’t Suspect a Friend, Report Him.
[img] 
[/img]
Ernie, about to talk to a misguided member of the public with 'incorrect priorities'...
I think the public have got their priorities perfectly correct mate.
It's Guardian readers that I have a problem with.
But then I guess Guardian readers can mostly afford the luxury of pontificating on the finer details of this and that.
Nice rant ernie. Except it makes Zero sense.
These, much needed, initiatives are not instead of the things that need to be done on the economy and jobs. How did you get that impression? They aren't held up to be the number one priority either. Where did you get that impression?
Also, what is it with the Guardian reader cr@p? You vehemently object to people having a balanced, open view?
The OP was about someone actually doing something about this sinister surveillance society we have sleepwalked into, not the economy or anything else. I for one am very happy about that. I do object to being a number and carrying a card - I haven't got anything to hide, but neither have I got anything to prove. I was born a free person and intend to strenuously defend that status.
[i]But then I guess Guardian readers can mostly afford the luxury of pontificating on the finer details of this and that.[/i]
Surely you should be out on the streets giving the Guardian away to all the ordinary people. That way they to can become extraordinary and revel in the luxury that it affords.
someone actually doing something about this sinister surveillance society we have sleepwalked into
Sinister surveillance society ? ffs
Do you guys who come out with this infantile bollox about how "we have sleepwalked into" an Orwellian Nineteen Eighty-four police state, actually keep a straight face when your saying it ? Britain is not a "sinister surveillance society".
[b][i]"They aren't held up to be the number one priority either. Where did you get that impression?"[/i][/b]
How did I get that impression ? Well I got that impression from the fact that at the first given opportunity Clegg had to map out what his government hoped to achieve, he rabbited on about the House of Lords and cctv.
And another reason I get the impression that out-of-touch Guardian reading liberals treat that sort of stuff as priority, is by the fact that the Guardian threw it's weight behind the Libdems this election just gone because according to them, PR was the most important issue.......yeah, right.
I see the Guardian was creaming it's pants in their leader today over Clegg's speech btw.
And yes, reform of the second chamber is important and long overdue, as is PR, and hopefully it will be achieved within the next five years. But it is hardly an issue which comes first in people's minds - before jobs, income, health, crime, etc. And it doesn't even pose a problem for the incoming government.
BTW, I like the cctv cameras of our "sinister surveillance society" - they help to keep crime down in Central Croydon. And we can't have the "bobbies on the beat" which Clegg wants, on every street corner. In fact I would like more - when the multi-storey car parks in Central Croydon were privatised, the new owners removed all the cameras for cost savings......nice for lone women late at night 😐
If Clegg is really concerned about the rights and freedoms in a democratic society, why then, has he remained completely silent at the latest repression of the right to strike ? The right to strike by independent and free trade unions, is recognised the world over. And yet Britain has the most repressive employment legislation of any western industrialised country.
Never mind your "sinister surveillance society", where, apart from totalitarian states, do they ban strikes which 80% have voted in favour of ? Is Clegg not concerned by the farcical sight of a judge declaring a strike "illegal" because a union failed to notify all eligible voters that there were 11 spoiled ballot papers ?
To follow what Michael Meacher suggests in a letter to the Guardian today, how would have Clegg felt if his election had been disallowed because the number of spoiled ballot paopers had not been notified to all his eligible
voters ? ..........[i]ffs[/i]
We all expect the courts to be used in such absurd and comical ways in totalitarian countries such as Iran and Zimbabwe. But apparently the LibDems are just fine with that sort of nonsense also happening in Britain.
Nick Clegg, like all bourgeois liberals, is full of shit. He talks the talk .........plenty of fine words, empty rhetoric, an abundance of meaningless gesture politics, and with shed loads of political posturing. But walking the walk .....now that is altogether different.
And full of shit he is too........who can forget his stunning performance in the pre-election debates as he castigated Cameron and Brown with, "the more you two argue, the more you sound the same" ? Only to decide afterwards, that despite all the arguing, he wanted to be in the same government as the Tories.
Clegg, like all the other "compassionate politicians" from the Blair-Cameron-Clegg Clone Factory, cannot be trusted. Already in the few days since the general election he has sold out on Trident and an amnesty for undocumented foreigners after 10 years, two issues which he passionately "believed" in.
And last Friday in the Guardian he wrote :
[url= http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/may/14/nick-clegg-coalition-aims-are-liberal ]"The third runway at Heathrow has been cancelled. ID cards have been scrapped. There will be no more child detention."[/url]
There will be no more child detention ? .......well that's music to my ears. And it is [i]very[/i] straight forward, direct, and unambiguous.......he couldn't possible have meant anything other, than ,"there will be no more child detention"
Well no, not quite. There will still be child detention. On the following Monday it was reported :
[url= http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/8688345.stm ]Children 'to remain' at Dungavel detention centre[/url]
Quote : [b][i]"Children of asylum seekers continue to be held at the Dungavel detention centre despite a coalition promise to end the practice."[/i][/b]
No wait......by Wednesday it's reported that :
[url= http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/8691081.stm ]Child detention to end at Dungavel removal centre[/url]
Ah, that's better...........no, hang on ........quote : [b]"[i]Damian Green said families with children detained in Scotland would now be moved to a specialist centre in Bedfordshire.[/i]"[/b]
So they're moving children to Yarl's Wood - another detention centre hundreds of miles away. A detention centre which has been very severely criticised for it's treatment of children :
[url= http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/inside-yarls-wood-britains-shame-over-child-detainees-1674380.html ]Inside Yarl's Wood: Britain's shame over child detainees[/url]
Quote : [b][i]Children held in the infamous Yarl's Wood immigration detention centre are being denied urgent medical treatment, handled violently and left at risk of serious harm, a damning report by the Children's Commissioner for England will say tomorrow.
Sir Al Aynsley-Green's investigation paints a shocking picture of neglect and even cruelty towards children trapped within the centre's razor-wired walls, and finds "substantial evidence that detention is harmful and damaging to children and young people". [/b][/i]
So what exactly is the situation then ? Well according to the immigration minister :
[b][i]"I hope that we can have plans agreed within the next few months. Whilst this immediate review is ongoing, [u]current policy remains in place[/u]." [/i][/b]
So despite Clegg's clear and unequivocal statement, they haven't "agreed" yet........they are going to have a f*"king review.
Well let me save you the time and cost Clegg, cause you don't need a f"^king review ........you waffling liberal tosser .....you didn't need a "review" when you spoke out against child detention, so why one now to [i]actually[/i] end child detention ?......just ****ing do it, and do it now.
I get the impression that out-of-touch Guardian reading liberals
Just out of interest who do you hate more them or the rabid right wing xenophobi euro sceptics?
Say Tree hugger lefty liberal or UKIP whose worse in your view?
I suspect there will be more backtracking like on child detention.
a nice tangle appearing over the Human Rights Act. Still no commentators nor the London based parties seem to understand that they cannot fiddle with the application of the European convention on human rights in Scotland nor can they remove the right to appeal to Strasbourg without leaving the EU.
So the proposed "British bill of rights" would in fact be totally meaningless in Scotland if it attempted to reduce the provisions of the ECoHR
Has Ernie's keyboard cooled down yet ?
yes but he is trying to decide who he hates most the hard right or the soft left
Is it too soon to tell him that the BA strike is back on after the union won their appeal?
Just out of interest ........
I doubt whether you are very interested. And to be honest, I wasn't really looking to having an argument/justifying my comments. In fact, I wasn't really expecting anyone to read my rather mammoth post.
And yes allthepies, everything's cool with my keyboard........although I won't deny my language tends to get a tad more colourful the longer my post is....... as I get into a roll, I start writing more like I speak. But I wouldn't read too much into that - I freely use expletives when I am perfectly happy and relaxed 🙂
Is it too soon to tell him that the BA strike is back on after the union won their appeal?
Well it's certainly not too late to tell me that Nick Clegg has finally broken his silence and condemned the use of the courts to attempt in an deny workers the right to strike ..........has he done so ?
the use of the courts to attempt in an deny workers the right to strike
LOL ! that makes a lot of sense 😀
Still......... posting bollox has never bothered me before 8)
It's Guardian readers that I have a problem with.
Yeah, me too. I note they have a tendency to write long rants complaining about other Guardian readers.
I note they have a tendency to write long rants complaining about other Guardian readers.
Really ? Well I'll be ****ed...............I thought it was only me 😕
Personally I have very mixed feelings about the current situation. Its basically rooted in "tribal politics" whereby if you believe that a minimum standard of care for all is a mark of a civilised society you must also therefore believe in state intervention in all things. Personally I don't, but I do beleive in the uncommon, i.e. common sense politics.
There are elements of all three major parties policies that are sensible and it has always seemed to me that a middle of the road approach isn't in fact indecisive, it is sesnsible and what the vast majority of people want. So for that reason, I really hope that we are seeing the end of tribalism, dogma and stupidity in our leaders.
So for me I'm standing off to the side with my arms folded saying go on then, show me you can do it. Juries out, hopes are in.
Regarding the OP, I have no problem with technology being used to fight crime. In fact I firmly beleive that if you wish to live safely it is incumbent on the individual to support the forces of Law and Order. However that has to be proportional to the reality. Much of what we have been seeing simply is not, so generally I am glad to see the back of ID cards etc. However, I have no problem with a national DNA database, I mean after all we've had fingerprints taken for over a century, and I don't recall any misuse of that data. It seems to me that the DNA database does have a real impact on serious crime.
However, I have no problem with a national DNA database, I mean after all we've had fingerprints taken for over a century, and I don't recall any misuse of that data
is there a national database of fingerprints?
thing with DNA is we are keepin git off everyone arrested/detained not even everyone charged. I dont think any other country os this draconian. Not sure what I think on the issue to be sure as I can see both points of views
Sorry ernie forgot you like to sound off not debate my mistake.
Fingerprint data is rather different to DNA data though. There are lot more ways in which it can be misused - leaks to insurance companies and exposing illegitimate children / relationships are two that spring to mind.
It'd make genocide & eugenics simpler too - no need to go around measuring skulls and the like..
There's also the fact that the government seem quite capable of losing sensitive data - child benefits records and vetting data for security clearance are two off the top of my head. The loss of vetting data is absolutely ridiculous - the whole point of vetting is to investigate someone's background extremely thoroughly, so as to assess the likelihood of them being blackmailed. The kind of data that's collected is of course about things like affairs, closet homosexuality, visits to prostitutes and fetishes, with the government having as much to lose by its release as those who were vetted.
As an anarchist, I have an inbuilt mistrust of authority to always do the right thing. I don't want authorities holding any more data about me than they need, and that handled in the most scrupulous manner.
Holding my data on the basis that I "might" commit crime without personal circumstantial evidence on which to base suspicion, seems plain wrong to me. Such things weaken the trust between state and citizen IMO.
Points taken re fingerprints. What I meant was in an investigatory context, i.e. used to fit someone up.
Personally, I think that commercial data gathering is a lot more pernicious and far more likely to lead to abuse. i.e. insurance companies already do it and already discriminate against people they deem to be a risk, which rather defeats the whole point of spreading risk by buying insurance IMHO.
Well, that was good for a laugh. Someone getting angry about people who like the idea of being free.
If anything it makes me feel ever more comfortable and assured in my belief. I am not a number. I don't even want crazy angry mouth-frothers to be reduced to a number either.
We absolutely have sleepwalked into a police/surveillance state, in my view, but a lot of people are too angry and scared to see it.
Ernie - I couldn't disagree with you more. And that makes me feel happy. And calm.
Ernie - I couldn't disagree with you more. And that makes me feel happy.
😕 Really ? .........your emotions and feelings are molded and affected by an anonymous stranger on an internet forum ?
Still, it's nice to know that I've made someone feel happy.......
Really guys, I think this idea of an all powerful surveillance organisation is a bit rich - the civil service are poor at IT systems and fankly the processes often suck as well. So the fact that the biometric passports and the ID cards have been dropped is a good thing because the tech isn't mature enough and we don't have the organisational maturity to use it to its full extent. I should also point that there are not really any other countries that could do it properly....
porterclough - Member
Ermm.. surely interest rates were so low that they can only go up - it's a one way bet
Not having a mortgage, but having savings, I'm holding my breath every month that things will creep upwards soon.
....and thereby hangs the tale
Think about the party of the blue rinse brigade living off investments pensions and savings and think about who benefits from high interest rates. then try to piece together which government tends towards the economics of high interest.
The economy has been screwed by the bankers
Complete load of old cobblers.
Banks have been scr*wing up royally every decade or so pretty regularly since forever.
In the '70s they poured money into African and South American dictatorships, which all then went bankrupt. In the '80s they poured money into a housing boom in this country which turned into negative equity, followed by the LTCM crash and a foray into Russia which also turned sour. Each time this happened, they recovered by carrying on milking the good old British consumer via their current accounts. Business as usual.
This time around, the banking regulatory system had been changed by our good friend Gordon "newbie" Brown; instead of the Bank of England doing the regulating - which it had done just fine for the previous 200 years - we had the totally useless FSA. Instead of putting a check on the banks greed, they simply got everyone to fill out endless pointless forms.
Don't blame the banks. Blame the numpty who changed the system for the sake of change, and made it worse. Oh, and the same numpty who had a "Golden Rule" about borrowing, that he then just rewrote when it looked like he might breach it.
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is. Nice one Gordon.
Ok so Brown is responsible for the sub prime market collapse in America and the subsequent finaial meltdown because the FSA replaced the SIB in 1986 ...thanks for sharing
Ps when did the B of E ever regulate?
Political music to my ears would be seeing Blair on trial in the Hague, together with laws brought in to ensure that any government official who lies to the electorate or who refuses to truthfully answer a direct question is denied salary for a year together with their pension pot for starters.
Seeing other political spin masters lose their ill gotten gains regardless of their allegiances would be a massive boost to people power IMHO.
Ps when did the B of E ever regulate?
Here's what the Bank of England's website says:
http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/about/history/major_developments5.htm
In 1997 the Government announced its intention to transfer full operational responsibility for monetary policy to the Bank of England. The Bank thus rejoined the ranks of the world's "independent" central banks. However, debt management on behalf of the Government was transferred to HM Treasury, [b]and the Bank's regulatory functions passes to the new Financial Services Authority.[/b]
Ok so Brown is responsible for the sub prime market collapse in America and the subsequent finaial meltdown because the FSA replaced the SIB in 1986 ...thanks for sharing
Brown did preside over a massive increase in public and private debt, along with a huge housing bubble, and didn't put the brakes on. I think it's clear that we would all be far better off if we weren't a hugely indebted nation with a reliance on constantly rising house prices when the crisis hit.
[i]Disadvantaged kids 7 times less likely to get to university etc etc. System gravitates against them blah blah. Thats the real problem. Basically we need to kick out the jobs for the boys, and get on with getting the best out of the best people. Can't see the Oxbridge/Eton crowd going along with that, sadly. [/i]
Not totally true. Smart people generally become better off, and have smarter kids, therefore the majority of kids at good unis are from better off families. And there are still plenty chances for the smart kids from poorer families to do well. With a bit of luck Cameron will re-introduce the assisted places scheme so less well off families can get bright kids into good schools.
It is TRUE Eton confers no advantage to the pupils that go there due to the standard of edcuation it delivers as it all it genetic. If these intelligent affluent people still pay the £25 k per year fees surely that makes them idiots? 🙄
Thank **** Conversatives are slashing through the waste mountain of surplus.
The Association of HIPS providers are threatening legal action as it will have 3,000 staff out of work.
Loving it! 😆
Brown did preside over a massive increase in public and private debt, along with a huge housing bubble, and didn't put the brakes on. I think it's clear that we would all be far better off if we weren't a hugely indebted nation with a reliance on constantly rising house prices when the crisis hit.
Well it was mainly Blair that was PM. How can the govt put the brakes on housing?. We should only measure our politicians in how they respond to the situation no one caused it other than boom and bust is in the nature of capitalism as the greed always goes too far and goes wrong once the elusive confidence goes.
Not totally true. Smart people generally become better off, and have smarter kids, therefore the majority of kids at good unis are from better off families.
Not totally true. Better off people are generally better at providing the environment required for education, buying books, speaking to their kids etc. and as a result, their kids do well in education.
How can the govt put the brakes on housing?
By using a measure of inflation that takes into account the cost of housing, rather than CPI, a change which Gordon Brown instituted. The house price bubble would have driven inflation up, and the BoE would have increased interest rates to correct. End result is that house prices are managed as part of the inflation control system.
I think Gordon Brown famously said something about boom and bust, and how he'd beaten it.
There was this bloke called Kanute once...