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Number plates and faces blurred. I have zero issues with it, got the message out very effectively.
It got the message out there brilliantly.
Everyone using the phrase “threatened with drones”, should have a good look into, and think about, how and why that meme spread, and who was most keen on using and promoting it.
There's been a phone in this morning on five live on this issue.
Somewhat predictably, its been similar to this thread, where various self-entitled people have been stating their 'right' to ignore the rules, as they think they know better than the police, medical authorities and the government and should therefore be exempted.
And in the odd hysterical member of the tinfoil helmet brigade bleating that being asked not to behave like a nobhead is the equivelent of living in East Germany in the 1970's
I have zero issues with it, got the message out very effectively.
+1
As far as I'm concerned the police have got it as good as they could in the circumstances so far. You mustn't forget that they have to make sure everyone if every intelligence and social background is obeying the rules. I've been questioned twice already about why I was out at 5 am on my bike, all I've and friendly and all I had to do was be polite, show them my work ID badge, say I was going to/from work and there was no issue. The officers did day that they'd found two gangs already out looking for shops to break into, fully believe that as lots have been done over this last week.
Bottom line is the police need our support in very difficult times.
Are we going to be stopped simply because of our plates?
No and yes. Your number plate gives the address of the keeper no matter what the prefix. ANPR is a wonderful thing.
Last night I drove 8k, parked my car in a deserted car park and ran up a wee hill with no one else on it. Even if there were other people the tracks are wide enough to give 2m distance and there are no gates to open that might spread the virus through contact. If the car park had been busy I was ready to turn around and go home.
.........bravo, you made it and it obviously makes you feel justified and, of course, there was absolutely no chance of an accident during all this time which could have involved an ambulance crew, Police, Fire Brigade or even mountain rescue to sort you out. They've got loads of time on their hands at the moment and welcome any opportunity to be exposed to even more risk!
As far as I’m concerned the police have got it as good as they could in the circumstances so far.
SOME police have done very well. SOME (like Derbyshire) have interpreted a mix of law, guidance, requests, advice and wildly varied press briefings into a "thou shall not drive anywhere for any reason" outcome. Passive aggressive tweets about "lycra-clad" later "clarified" to mean groups of cyclists. Sending a drone up to film some perfectly law-abiding walkers on public land, well-spaced and "distanced" and then shame them. Telling people they've gone over their allocated "quota" of exercis (nowhere does it specifically state a time limit, in spite of what Fishface Gove bleated out the other day).
I get that there are some (actually plenty of) total ****nuggets. I get that policing is incredibly difficult and dangerous and underfunded and largely thankless.
But I also get that SOME police have really just opened themselves up to scrutiny and perfectly justified criticism for the way they've handled this, deployed already scarce resources and presented themselves.
The water looks very inviting, and is great for photos, and burns your skin, and is in an unsafe quarry. People were (in previous summers) travelling to it for instagram photos, and generally hanging out, and, insanely, swimming. Go and read about why they have to make it less inviting for public health reasons, both in normal times and recently.
Ah I see, makes a bit more sense now. My fault for believing what I read in the papers (a bit).
Now I'm not against everyone following the rules at the minute, I am fairly strictly following the myself and will continue to do so, and encourage everyone to do the same. But you do wonder what the effects of this authoritarian stint we're going through will be..
I'm pretty sure there's going to be some long term implications on how society is organised in the future, this is definitely an attitude shift that some people will find hard to let go of.
Can definitely see people voting for more and more draconian surveillance measures and whistle-blowing type activities being more more prevalent going forward..
A lot of people think we'll just go back to normal after this. I don't think we will at all, the 1-2 years that we'll be dealing with this will see a massive change in things over the next 10 years... Not least due to the fears of another outbreak happening as well.
Particularly if it's found that china isn't b-shitting it's numbers at the moment, lots of eyes will be looking there and a lot of the technology and actions they took will be getting eyed up.
Okay so it's decided then, we consult Holly.
SOME police have done very well. SOME (like Derbyshire) have interpreted a mix of law, guidance, requests, advice and wildly varied press briefings into a “thou shall not drive anywhere for any reason” outcome.
Isn't this the problem? "The Police" is not one homogeneous entity and the actions of some forces are negatively impacting the response of others. Some of the Derbyshire tactics are creating a nation of curtain-twitchers and forces are having to handles calls of "that person was out twice today" or "that person was out for an hour and a half" type of seriousness when they really have bigger issues to deal with. If the distancing/lock-down measures are viewed as a dam holding back the floods, a couple of trickles aren't important, it's the major breeches that will cause trouble downstream.
SOME (like Derbyshire) have interpreted a mix of law, guidance, requests, advice and wildly varied press briefings into a “thou shall not drive anywhere for any reason” outcome.
No, they said that you should not be driving to the Peak District for a walk or a ride. Not the law, but advice/ guidance/ instruction. Don’t drive out to beauty spots for exercise. Advice to help stop/slow the spread of the virus. Advice that will help save lives, including the lives of the medical professionals putting their health on the line to get us through this.
The water looks very inviting, and is great for photos, and burns your skin, and is in an unsafe quarry. People were (in previous summers) travelling to it for instagram photos, and generally hanging out, and, insanely, swimming. Go and read about why they have to make it less inviting for public health reasons, both in normal times and recently.
Yea, that lake is notorious. It's wildly toxic (incredibly alkaline, almost like bleach) because of the lime and the chemicals used in the quarrying/extraction, the water covers all manner of random shit at the bottom (old quarry vehicles and machinery, waste etc) and it's very cold and in places very deep.
Not bad for pictures on a sunny day but it's been dyed a few times in the past to deter swimmers.
Actually don't have a problem with that being done although rather then it being open to the air it'd be nice to see the whole lot covered over.
but even the government don’t have a common position on this. Or at least if they do, they haven’t communicated it (well enough)
More guesswork than normal then!
Tell you what. I am a careful driver. I am quite skilled as have done a few track days and my advanced driving. My car is in great condition and the roads are super quiet. I think today i will drive at 90mph everywhere, i doubt anything will happen as there are less people to hit.......
So, what is it?
One of the A roads a mile or so away from me, a person in a car who was over the drink drive limit managed to cause a crash with 2 other cars at 10am yesterday morning. Looking at local traffic, they must have been the only 3 cars on the road!
The report suggested that she was released pending investigation. Someone mentioned that might be due to just being hung over from the night before and still being over the limit?
Suppose it's just one example of what could happen.
A cursory glance at social media would confirm that most of the country has been permenently pissed for a week now
Tell you what. I am a careful driver. I am quite skilled as have done a few track days and my advanced driving. My car is in great condition and the roads are super quiet. I think today i will drive at 90mph everywhere, i doubt anything will happen as there are less people to hit…….
Well that's illegal and it comes under normal day-to-day roads policing. Like this:
https://twitter.com/DerbyshireRPU/status/1244945610031214602
(I picked Derbyshire just out of interest following their Roads Policing Unit tweets about "lycra-clad" and so on).
Your attempt an analogy is wrong because you've quoted an example that you already know is outside the existing law. If you were caught and arrested for what you described it wouldn't be heavy handed at all, it'd be applying the existing law in a reasonable manner.
No, they said that you should not be driving to the Peak District for a walk or a ride. Not the law, but advice/ guidance/ instruction. Don’t drive out to beauty spots for exercise.
Which others are reinterpreting as 'thou shalt not drive anywhere', even if that anywhere is local and puts you in a place away from human contact.
Not really shaming when you can’t make them out.
https://twitter.com/derbyshirerpu/status/1243203383286169601?s=21
Tell you what. I am a careful driver. I am quite skilled as have done a few track days and my advanced driving. My car is in great condition and the roads are super quiet. I think today i will drive at 90mph everywhere, i doubt anything will happen as there are less people to hit…….
Well I've been watching this discussion so far (though it feels awfully familiar at times) but that comment has just annoyed me and pushed me over the edge. It's outrageous and illustrates everything that's wrong with today's society. There are FEWER people to hit.
<applauds>
I picked Derbyshire just out of interest following their Roads Policing Unit tweets about “lycra-clad” and so on
I've done the same. Other than the contentious 'lycra-clad' comment, all looks very sensible to me.
https://twitter.com/DerbyshireRPU/status/1241732154167566346?s=20
https://twitter.com/DerbyshireRPU/status/1244239608352854017?s=20
Reading all this is like watching race car designers argue furiously over changes to the aero package in order to gain a 2% advantage over the course of a lap. If you questioned them they would quite rightly point out that 2% could easily be the difference between winning and losing. And they'd be right.
The problem is the car that they are trying to optimise has square wheels. If the wheels were round then what they are saying would make sense but because there is such a huge fundamental flaw in the design they are putting all their energy into a pointless exercise.
No matter how people take their exercise, whether they run around their garden or take a 300 mile round trip in their car or whether they are out for 1 hour or 10, compared to the simple act of going to the shops it is a minuscule contribution to the spread of the disease.
i think that the whole thing around this horrible situation is that we have all been handed the broad facts and been advised what to do - actual laws and red tape seems secondary compared to our assumed natural instinct to actually try to survive this thing as best we can.
we are currently being treated as grown ups with human rights and brains.
it's clearly up to each of us to work out what that means day to day. whats essential to one household is irrelevant to the next. all the ambiguity just makes it plain it about personal responsibility rather than operating within or outwith any law.
the one thing that seems ceertain is social distancing eventually halts the spread of the virus, and then ultimately leads to it being contained and destroyed. (some computer simulations on this really make sense).
im no big fan of the police or current goverment but ill be doing everything i can to not waste a second of their time until this is over...
Regarding ANPR, I am not sure that it gives instant readout of addresses, as I understand it all it does initially is compare reg. no. To database of vehicles of interest’
I assume the police could phone up to find the registered keeper.
Automatic Number Plate Recognition (ANPR) technology is used to help detect, deter and disrupt criminality at a local, force, regional and national level, including tackling travelling criminals, Organised Crime Groups and terrorists. ANPR provides lines of enquiry and evidence in the investigation of crime and is used by LEA throughout England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.
How it works
As a vehicle passes an ANPR camera, its registration number is read and instantly checked against database records of vehicles of interest. Police officers can intercept and stop a vehicle, check it for evidence and, where necessary, make arrests. A record for all vehicles passing by a camera is stored, including those for vehicles that are not known to be of interest at the time of the read that may in appropriate circumstances be accessed for investigative purposes. The use of ANPR in this way has proved to be important in the detection of many offences, including locating stolen vehicles, tackling uninsured vehicle use and solving cases of terrorism, major and organised crime. It also allows officers’ attention to be drawn to offending vehicles whilst allowing law abiding drivers to go about their business unhindered.
Once the war was over everything went back to normal as it will in this case.
I think the reality following this will be mixed. Of course the most draconian laws will be repealed (or simply not renewed, as most of this legislation is time limited already). However some smaller elements may remain - pub licensing hours were kept after WW1, as was daylight savings time, possession of cocaine etc. Rationing lasted for many years after WW2 had ended. SOme of the things we retain will be largely positive, others less so, or not universally seen as positive by all sectors of society.
I assume the police could phone up to find the registered keeper.
Yeah... because they've nowt else important to be doing at the moment.
Alternatively, people could just do as quite reasonably requested and not drive unless its 'essential travel'?
Just imagine that? Bonkers, eh?
Part of the issue is that people are having to find new ways of exercising - everybody is out for exercise who isn’t normally.
Do you know how many millions of people have a gym membership? How many hundreds of thousand play football as a hobby? How many go to running clubs, gymnastics, dance classes, bike rides, who work manual jobs, work in restaurants clocking up thousands of steps a day, who now can’t do their normal things so they’re finding other permitted ways of exercising.
Some of that is going to be a learning curve in terms of them finding places to go where they can be socially responsible/distant etc and advice is all well and good but not you MUST all go home and never come here again, you MUST NOT drive anywhere....
That's rather counter productive as some police forces are now finding out. Especially when they've just made up those "rules" by themselves.
Rationing lasted for many years after WW2 had ended.
Because there wasn't enough food; young men to harvest/make it; ships and fuel to transport it; plus worries that because of the above a free market would drive up the prices of the essentials ridiculously and cause hardship to the poor.
Not because they thought it was a jolly good socialist idea.
Very unhelpful interview with a chap from https://www.doughtystreet.co.uk/ on the news earlier, picking apart the guidance vs. what is law. Only exercise once a day was his example, 'it's in the guidance but not in the law'.
Also made a big deal that 'leaving your house because you were in danger' isn't in the guidance.
Really? What are these people on? 🙄
Notice his web site majors on 'human rights and civil liberties' and 'Actions Against the Police and Public Authorities'.
Nice balanced view then.
Notice his web site majors on ‘human rights and civil liberties’ and ‘Actions Against the Police and Public Authorities’.
Human rights and civil liberties? They sound like a right bunch of bad'uns.
Seriously though, you're opposed to someone actually trying to clarify what the rules are when even the police don't seem to know?
If the government won't do it's job ie, laying out what is allowed and what isn't, then yes, other people are going to fill the vacuum
If the government won’t do it’s job ie, laying out what is allowed and what isn’t
I just don't think that's practical or feasible TBH. Do we really need pages of legalese at this point? Be careful what you wish for?
No matter how people take their exercise, whether they run around their garden or take a 300 mile round trip in their car or whether they are out for 1 hour or 10, compared to the simple act of going to the shops it is a minuscule contribution to the spread of the disease.
Firstly, we have to buy food to survive so they can't ban that.
Secondly, the 'exercise rule' is giving us something to think about and keeping us focused. Like the invasion preperations in 1940. Most of it was of no military use, but making concrete defences had a massive effect on morale and discipline. I suspect if they said "Go out whenever you want" we'd all carry on as normal. By saying 'go out only once a day' we're (almost) all taking it seriously - it's given us a common purpose.
The Po Po are absolutist by their very nature and have to be. You can't be discussing the merits of CROW legislation with pikey scumbags turning a village green into a landfill for example.
It's the fault of their seniors and pay masters for not taking the temperature of government properly. They deserve all the bad press they are getting at the moment for acting entirely outside their remit.
That retired supreme court Judge is right, if the polic do what they want instead of acting as an instrument of the law, that is moving towards a police state.
If people follow the guidance, there's no need for rules.
Weird, isn’t… treat us like adults with guidance and advice, and people seem to be literally begging for their rights to be restricted in law instead…
By all means, go out and stretch the law to breaking point, find your own little gaps in the law that mean you can do whatever you want, even if it risks spreading the virus and pushing the health service and other public services to breaking point… but if that results in new highly restrictive laws and checks as has happened in other countries, we won’t thank you, and neither will the police and army that then have to spend so much time enforcing it. Help yourselves. Help the police (que Adam Buxton). Help the doctors. Help the nurses. Help all the emergency services. Don’t drive out to get your exercise.
People saying that the police advising people to go home during a national emegency, to prevent the spread of a virus, and dishing out a couple of 30 quid fines constitutes the estblishment of a police state really do need to get a ****ing grip and maybe google what a real police state actually looks like
For example, from yesterdays news. You might have missed it while bleating on about Derbyshire now being like North Korea....
Hungary passes law that will let Orbán rule by decree
Hungary’s parliament has passed a new set of coronavirus measures that includes jail terms for spreading misinformation and gives no clear time limit to a state of emergency that allows the nationalist prime minister, Viktor Orbán, to rule by decree.
Having a read of that should lend some much-needed perspective for the tinfoil helmet lot
Weird, isn’t… treat us like adults with guidance and advice, and people seem to be literally begging for their rights to be restricted in law instead…
Exactly. The guidance is there (now backed with some police advice/enforcement), use common sense and do your bit. No need to ask here if it's OK to do x or push for an answer from the government of what applies in your exact situation.
I just don’t think that’s practical or feasible TBH. Do we really need pages of legalese at this point? Be careful what you wish for?
So then who decides what is and isn't allowed. Individual forces? Individual officers? I would be careful what you wish for, tbh.
Firstly, we have to buy food to survive so they can’t ban that.
No, but if we really wanted to it could be policed a lot more strictly than it is. Face to be covered while in the shops, enforced hand washing before entering, limited number of people at a time, strictly enforced 2m separation, you touch it you bought it, designated shops and/or hours for workers at risk of infection, etc.
Any of these measures would do far more to limit the spread than any limitation on outdoor activity.
Secondly, the ‘exercise rule’ is giving us something to think about and keeping us focused.
So you agree it's not really going to limit the spread much compared to shopping? It's more about getting people in the right mindset.
If so then I agree with the effect it has but it seems to be causing so much anguish I would say it's counter-productive.
So you agree it’s not really going to limit the spread much compared to shopping?
By all means don’t go shopping, if you can manage that. We haven’t for two weeks now, and won’t be for another two. Not everyone can manage that. Just about everyone can manage not driving to get exercise.
Advice is to shop as little as possible. Once a week maximum mentioned by gov ministers a few times.
Can I raise a practicle question at this point...
As parliament is no longer sitting, and our PM is self-isolating due to actually having the virus, how do you propose this new sweeping, draconion legislation, instigating the curtailing of freedoms not seen since the second world war, is to be passed into law?
I'm all ears
And then we can have a discussion about how you're then going to enforce it.
So then who decides what is and isn’t allowed. Individual forces? Individual officers?
You do initially based on the guidance. And if your decision looks questionable you might get a tap on the shoulder at which point you can calmly explain your interpretation. Ultimately (if you're being ridiculous about it IMO) the courts decide.
he Po Po are absolutist by their very nature and have to be. You can’t be discussing the merits of CROW legislation with pikey scumbags turning a village green into a landfill for example.
It’s the fault of their seniors and pay masters for not taking the temperature of government properly. They deserve all the bad press they are getting at the moment for acting entirely outside their remit.
That retired supreme court Judge is right, if the polic do what they want instead of acting as an instrument of the law, that is moving towards a police state.
Not at all. we have an amazing thing called discretion. For example, if I were to arrest every single potential Rapper who swore at me (under the Public Order Act) I would be a very busy chappie indeed.
Its not Pikey -Its Travelling Community. That's not nice
If we acted outside of our remit we could be investigated by the IOPC or our Professional Standards. So we don't.
By all means don’t go shopping, if you can manage that. We haven’t for two weeks now, and won’t be for another two. Not everyone can manage that. Just about everyone can manage not driving to get exercise.
Are you only reading half of what I write on purpose or by accident?
By the way, I'm not saying everyone should stick the bike on the car and head for the nearest trail centre, just that we should keep things in perspective and continually question the guidelines.
I've seen pages and pages about driving but very little about more that could be done to limit the spread in shops using measures I suggested earlier. You have to ask yourself why people have decided to get so worked up over this particular issue.
Edit: When I say question the guidelines, I mean in a rational way. Is this guideline actually going to limit the spread or not? Could it be altered to be more effective? If we focus all our collective energy on this guideline are we missing something more fundamental that could be done?
And yes, part of that rational questioning is, could these measures lead to problems further down the road?
If you feel that I need to be measured for a tin foil hat the so be it.
No, but if we really wanted to it could be policed a lot more strictly than it is. Face to be covered while in the shops, enforced hand washing before entering, limited number of people at a time, strictly enforced 2m separation, you touch it you bought it, designated shops and/or hours for workers at risk of infection, etc.
If people can't handle a simple recommendation like 'Only go out once' how the hell are they going to follow your list of 9 items that you've ended with 'etc' which suggests you have more in mind!
The advice is to avoid shopping where possible anyway. Shop infrequently and have delivery where possible so if you're shopping more than you need, stop.
I’ve seen pages and pages about driving but very little about more that could be done to limit the spread in shops using measures I suggested earlier.
Over on retailtrackworld they might be doing just what you suggest.
Or perhaps on another thread.
Not really shaming when you can’t make them out.
Rubbish. The guy stood up in the top left photo is quite clearly MC Hammer
He’s just there to remind people what they can and can’t touch.
If people can’t handle a simple recommendation like ‘Only go out once’ how the hell are they going to follow your list of 9 items that you’ve ended with ‘etc’ which suggests you have more in mind!
It sounds difficult so we shouldn't even try?
This what Macclesfield police were doing at the weekend. The crazy thing I'm seeing, the same people joining in the outrage about the folk driving up to the forest are themselves running up to the forest are contributing to the perceived problem. As if been fit enough to run up rather than drive up gives you a free pass.
My issue I've been running 5k every other day with the kids around the block, this put us in far more contact with folks than driving 1 mile to the edge of town and running across the open countryside in the opposite direction to the peak district that no one hardly goes to.
One thing thats wound me up is we have run onto the road or into a drive whenever we've met someone and that includes my 8-year-old and only about 1 in 10 people thank us. People are absolute ...
He’s just there to remind people what they can and can’t touch.
Oh very good sir!
Genius.
Having a read of that should lend some much-needed perspective for the tinfoil helmet lot
One of the reasons we don't have that kind of action here is that people like Sumption speak up at the first sign of those in positions of power overstepping the mark.
You have to ask yourself why people have decided to get so worked up over this particular issue.
Cause of hordes of people going to the usual well known spots, specific beaches, sea side towns, hills etc etc..
It's not like the shout against people driving came out of of a vacuum, it started cause people were being daft.
Quite entertaining watching binners lapse into authoritarianism so easily. I think you need to head back to the lakes to relax - unless you’ve been there too recently. 😀
One of the reasons we don’t have that kind of action here is that people like Sumption speak up at the first sign of those in positions of power overstepping the mark.
Erm... ok comrade..
Or perhaps because we have a country with policing by consent, where the broadly libertarian, socially liberal government has no interest in establishing a police state, as proven by the present reluctence to legislate, relying on advice instead, even in the face of continued bell-endery by a vocal, whiny, self-entitled minority
There really are a lot of virtue signalling, sanctimonious bellends on this forum aren’t there?
Government advice does not sanction some elements of the police to live out their fantasies of being part of the Stasi in East Germany.
It’s worth remembering that Orwell's 1984 was inspired by the measures put into place in the U.K. during WW2, not just the Soviet Union, as many people think.
JP
live out their fantasies of being part of the Stasi in East Germany
Do you have an example of this happening?
Cause of hordes of people going to the usual well known spots, specific beaches, sea side towns, hills etc etc..
I worry about a McNamara fallacy. As OOB said, measuring how people do their shopping is going to be very difficult, almost impossible.
Measuring whether people are driving or not is very easy. Slightly more difficult but still easier than measuring how people are shopping is measuring how long people are out of the house for.
I'm worried that this fixation on how people exercise is focusing on the wrong thing.
The first step is to measure whatever can be easily measured. This is OK as far as it goes. The second step is to disregard that which can't be easily measured or to give it an arbitrary quantitative value. This is artificial and misleading. The third step is to presume that what can't be measured easily really isn't important. This is blindness. The fourth step is to say that what can't be easily measured really doesn't exist. This is suicide.
— Daniel Yankelovich, "Corporate Priorities: A continuing study of the new demands on business" (1972).
A fixation on things that can be measured by both the general public and the authorities is a sure fire way of draconian measures being implemented. That's why I think everyone should chill out a bit.
Did the Stasi issue a lot of 30 quid fines too?
i have to confess that I thought they were a tad more draconiam than that
Every day's a school day eh?
Erm… ok comrade..
I do have to admire your ability to turn almost every comment someone makes into some sort of aggressively worded straw man.
Suggesting the police not exceed their powers and subjecting them to scrutiny is not tinfoil hattery or communism. It is in fact a key component of policing by consent to use your own words.
One thing thats wound me up is we have run onto the road or into a drive whenever we’ve met someone and only about 1 in 10 people thank us.
Move somewhere nicer.
Almost everyone I meet running/cycling/walking gives everyone else a massive wide berth and there's almost always a smile and some mutual thanks.
Sounds like a load of paranoid claptrap with no basis in reality to me
Not at all. we have an amazing thing called discretion.
which has been completely disabused in these well documented cases recently.
If we acted outside of our remit we could be investigated by the IOPC or our Professional Standards. So we don’t.
If you didn't, there would be no need for the IOPC to exist. We'll see on these well documented cases over the last few days whether this will end that way. Fines with no breach of the law perhaps?
Yeah… because they’ve nowt else important to be doing at the moment.
Alternatively, people could just do as quite reasonably requested and not drive unless its ‘essential travel’?
Couldn’t agree more. I was just pointing out that ANPR isn’t as effective to identify people a long way from home as suggested.
If Lord Sumption had gone on the radio and simply said that Derbyshire Police had misinterpreted what they could/couldn’t or should/shouldn’t be doing, and had thereby made a mistake, then I’d think fair enough and listen to him.
When he starts calling them a disgrace, incorrectly claiming that they are “wrecking beauty spots” and saying that they’ve “shamed our policing traditions”, then I think he’s guilty of the same hysteria he complains about later in the report.
He knows fine well the police are trying their best to do the right thing, even if some places have got it wrong, and he could give his opinion in a fair way without being a melodramatic prick about it.
The level of paranoia on the virus threads at the moment is becoming a bit scary, everyone seems to just turn it up to 11 the minute people don't agree with them
Sounds like a load of paranoid claptrap with no basis in reality to me
Anything in particular or just the STW forum in general?
Because if that's the case I agree.
If you didn’t , there would be no need for the IOPC to exist
........and if we didn't have burglars we wouldn't need locks.
FFS give me strength 🙄
Anything in particular or just the STW forum in general?
A lot of it, but this specifically:
Suggesting the police not exceed their powers and subjecting them to scrutiny is not tinfoil hattery or communism. It is in fact a key component of policing by consent to use your own words.
People need to get a grip and re-connect with some recognisable semblance of reality. They've just demonstrated in Hungary what a proper authoritarian regime does in a situation like this, giving themselves sweeping powers to do what the **** they like.
Meanwhile the Derbyshire police have posted something on social media to dissuade people from carrying on with activites that could put lives at risk, and dished a couple of minor fines out to those who refuse to cooperate
Its hardly the final scenes of The Wall, is it?
When binners is the voice of reason, we all need to take a step back and calm down.
But well said binners! 👍
even in the face of continued bell-endery by a vocal, whiny, self-entitled minority
Sounds like the STW forum.
jjprestridge
There really are a lot of virtue signalling, sanctimonious bellends on this forum aren’t there?
The STWASI? 🙂
The point is the exercise "rules" are guidance not absolute law, and that was a wise decision by the govt. It's not possible to have a single law that would make sense applied uniformly between densely packed city and the wide open lands of the countryside.
i.e. it's leaving it to our judgement. We all know about the 2 metre rule, and my observation when out walking the dog is everyone is punctilious about it to the extent it's more like 5 metres.
Now maybe some dickheads are doing it differently and it's fair enough to pour opprobrium on them, but that's not the majority of people who are exercising their judgement and behaving with discretion - which is exactly the point of guidance.
And if the police aren't getting it right straight off the bat, that's not ground for criticism in my book. They are acting in good faith and what they see as our best interests.
This what Macclesfield police were doing at the weekend. The crazy thing I’m seeing, the same people joining in the outrage about the folk driving up to the forest are themselves running up to the forest are contributing to the perceived problem. As if been fit enough to run up rather than drive up gives you a free pass.
My issue I’ve been running 5k every other day with the kids around the block, this put us in far more contact with folks than driving 1 mile to the edge of town and running across the open countryside
The trouble is, as you posted, people lack imagination. If you say "you can drive 30min to somewhere remote", they'll all drive to the same car park, which is inevitably considerably smaller than the housing estate they were all claiming was too overcrowded to maintain social distancing whilst on a walk.
tbh, in general I think things have gone really well regarding the lockdown. It's been a slow process, correctly so imo, but we are largely there now, few existing issues.
Lets take a look at how not to do it for a wee bit of perspective!
Coronavirus: India's pandemic lockdown turns into a human tragedy
Ok, I’m frontline “Po Po”, in a so called “critical role”, and I have been for 20 years. I am also human; I have a son who has an immunosuppressive genetic condition & I am asthmatic and 49 years old with moderately high blood pressure.
I have no PPE whatsoever to deal with groups of people. Over the past couple of nights shifts I have personally been sent to about 5 ASB jobs, which were actually noisy house parties, or “Corona parties” as I heard one person call them. I have been met with drunken abuse by people telling me to **** off and do some real work. One fella I stopped driving his car at 115mph on quiet roads thought it was an essential journey to collect his partner from their address and transport him to his address. Having given the driver some advice the response from the partner was “it’s all a ****ing joke though isn’t it... I mean, I’ve got Crohn’s disease”. A comment accompanied with a knowing look. I’ve no idea what this fella was implying but advice was repeated and they were sent on their way.
Earlier that same night I stopped a fella in a car who’d gone to collect his girlfriend - she’d fell out with her parents so had stormed out in a huff. He thought that was an essential journey... that he had no licence or insurance was not even a concern to him. This man was physically and mentally incapable of maintain a 2 metre gap. He was coughing his balls off every 2 minutes and had to be instructed in no uncertain terms, using seemingly the only words and phrases he understood, to stay away from me (very Anglo-Saxon words and phrases).
I have yet to issue one penalty notice using any new powers. Like virtually every colleague I would prefer to empathise with folk who’re going out of their minds with worry and boredom, beside which - to issue these notices I have to get quite close to people. I’d rather use my discretion, reason with people, and hopefully educate them.
My colleagues and I are just as concerned about our welfare, and that of our families as the next person. My examples above are a small amount from one person - now multiply this by as many bobbies as are on duty at any time & you begin to understand the people who we’re trying our best to deal with. This is as well as (not instead of) the usual criminality that happens every day, day in day out.
When voicing my concerns, the advice by my “superiors” has been “its business as usual, so battle on”. The solution for my personal concerns was to fill out a lengthy & complex special circumstances form, which is actually a permission form for me to take unpaid parental leave. I can’t afford to take unpaid leave.
So, every day I’m going to work, self-managing who I’m in physical proximity with, then going home to my family who are in lockdown. I’m travelling in different clothes to and from work then stripping off outside before getting in the shower, before even seeing any of my family. Tensions are high. Someone on my shift is now living in his caravan on his drive because he has to avoid contact with his wife and daughter who is deemed vulnerable. Another is on an air bed in his garage, and a colleague who also runs a charity that feeds the homeless has been told to cease all charitable work so that he remains fit for his job as a Police Officer. This is from the same organisation who gave us kitchen spray to clean the inside of our vehicles, and doesn’t provide hot water in the changing rooms to go with the pointless anti-bacterial hand wash that been placed next to every sink.
Please understand that what you’re seeing on the news about overzealous use of new powers are simply scandalising something that, on the scale of things, isn’t actually much of an issue. Some reporters are bored of Corona already, and are simply looking for a different angle on the whole thing.
Thanks for your service @mildred, and thanks for sharing all that on STW.