[Closed] Podium girls

Cougar - Moderator
Yeah, we're sick of these "thinkers."

Cougar - Moderator
Thank you for that positive and insightful contribution.

Yeah. I spent a few days in the hotel at Le Mans MotoGP with the Monster Girls. They were not chosen for their brains and PR nous, social skills etc. In fact, I am pretty sure that I only saw a couple of them eat anything all weekend, and that was half an orange.

They hated us though, as we were taking the piss out of the jiggle shows, they did every couple of hours, the crowd had their backs to us but we never clocked the girls could see us. I did end up apologising for that.

10 pages and only a couple of pics ??

[i]Ha!, to quote you[/i]

Sarcasm recognition fail.

You say "good looking women earning money for nothing" I say "media confirmation that women are ornaments/trophies and valued only for their looks".

Potato, potatoe, tomato, tomatoe etc etc.

I mean, at times they practically hand them over as if they are trophies themselves. Proper life affirming stuff that is.

"media confirmation that women are ornaments/trophies and valued only for their looks".

In the same way that the TdF confirms men are valued only for their physical prowess and mental courage.

Looking to the extreme top level of sport for a benchmark to live up to is not going to make anyone feel good about themselves.

Still trying to argue people into the ground OOB? Worked out what you think yet?

I'm fairly sure I recall that last year one of the [s]podium girls[/s] hostesses on the tour circuit was indeed a professional cyclist.

Worked out what you think yet?

As yet I'm agnostic about the whole issue. If someone wants to come up with exactly what they'd [s]ban[/s] stop and exactly which people they'd [s]ban[/s] stop from doing it then I'd be happy to express my view.

The fact nobody is willing to do that tells me that nobody has a clue who they would allow on the podium and who they wouldn't. Which is unsuprising since the prize giving itself is a made up ceremony with completely arbitary roles. If you banned anyone who doesn't have 'role' from the podium a role could just be made up for them.

Why don't you look at other podiums and the roles

For example, which roles are involved in an Olympic medal giving podium. Pretty sure I don't see podium girls at the Olympics. How come they are not required there?

If someone wants to come up with exactly what they'd [s]ban[/s] stop

You're either being wilfully obtuse or missing the point.

"Stop" isn't a friendly euphemism for "ban", rather some people are suggesting that they hope the practice would die out of its own volition, that the organisers would decide that it's an unnecessary and outdated practice.

I may be wrong but I don't think anyone has suggested banning, stopping or otherwise actively preventing it.

If someone wants to come up with exactly what they'd ban stop and exactly which people they'd ban stop from doing it...
The fact nobody is willing to do that

Bollocks. Try reading the thread. Instead of bickering with the last post.
There are loads of "why"s and a link to the Australian site that people agree with.
[i]In the same way that the TdF confirms men are valued only for their physical prowess and mental courage.[/i]
If you really think that is the same as women being just for show.. words fail me.

You're either being wilfully obtuse or missing the point.

Ok. We can stop the search for the new STW Forums strapline.

"Stop" isn't a friendly euphemism for "ban", rather some people are suggesting that they hope the practice would die out of its own volition, that the organisers would decide that it's an unnecessary and outdated practice.

Nobody has any problem with that AFAICT and I've explicitly said I have no problem with that. (What problem could there be?)

I may be wrong but I don't think anyone has suggested banning, stopping or otherwise actively preventing it.

Obviously you're wrong otherwise there'd be no debate at all. I was responding to someone mentioning 'banning' (using that word exactly) and asking *exactly* what he wanted to be banned. All subsiquent debate has been over *exactly* what needs to be banned.

[quote=kerley ]Why don't you look at other podiums and the roles
For example, which roles are involved in an Olympic medal giving podium. Pretty sure I don't see podium girls at the Olympics. How come they are not required there?

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/olympics/2008-07/18/content_6859229.htm

If you really think that is the same as women being just for show.. words fail me.

If you really think that TdF podium girls suggest that women are just for show ...

How come they are not required there?

They're not, they're not required anywhere. Would that question have been better addressed to a post where someone said podium girls are 'required'? Can you find such a post?

[url= https://www.theguardian.com/sport/100-tours-100-tales/2017/jul/06/tour-de-france-sexism-problem-condoms-jan-bakelants-la-course ]https://www.theguardian.com/sport/100-tours-100-tales/2017/jul/06/tour-de-france-sexism-problem-condoms-jan-bakelants-la-course[/url]

If you really think that TdF podium girls suggest that women are just for show

Yeah that's what I think you pillock.

you pillock

Oh, ok, you've got me convinced by your argument.

[quote> http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/olympics/2008-07/18/content_6859229.htm

I suspect that the nit-pickers will point out that Olympic medal bearers are not physically on the podium, they are a number of feet away from it. Apparently London was the first Olympics at which some of the medal bearers were male.

So you'll laugh at someone doing their job that you don't approve of? You're a delight

Can't see the problem. I find a lot of jobs laughable. Management consultants, relationship managers, digital marketing etc. In fact, after 20 or so years of working in IT I find my own job is the butt of much humour too.

Oh, ok, you've got me convinced by your argument.

Cool. I knew there was a language that you would understand.

The clue is in the name, Tour de [b]France[/b]. They have a different view of these things, they are not overwhelmed by political correctness for one. As for "stick thin" my wife is a uk size 10 and is considered "fat" in France. Fashion magazines are created by and for women and they buy them. If "thin" models didn't sell clothes etc they wouldn't use them.

It would perhaps be better if we had successful (pro or not) male cyclists presenting the womens medals and visa versa .. but other than that I can't see why selecting someone "attractive" over any other criteria is a problem???

We could have celebs presenting medals - famous for ??? being on big brother or similar... or some famous footballer or "musician"... or even worse some political fluncky...

or worse still we could have some fluncky from British cycling... presenting the medals?

The majority of financially successful actors and actresses don't just happen to be attractive .. George Clooney or Cameron Diaz don't just by accident appeal sexually to members of the opposite sex (or indeed same sex)
You could argue George Clooney exploits both being attractive and his acting and directing to actually do worthwhile stuff....

Selecting models who need the work and might lack other skills seems the least bad option....

In the same way that the TdF confirms men are valued only for their physical prowess and mental courage.
If you really think that is the same as women being just for show.. words fail me.

I fail to see the connection ....
Men in the TdF are valued mainly for their physical prowess.... which quite frankly I'd far rather see ONLY .... unfortunately they are also valued according to their looks and "interview-ability" and represent a "brand"

They have a different view of these things, they are not overwhelmed by political correctness for one

YEAH! Vive Le France!

If you really think that TdF podium girls suggest that women are just for show ...

At the risk of repeating myself (and others), this is still a small part of a wider problem. Looking at it without appreciating the context doesn't really work.

I just find the whole podium girl thing a bit embarrassingly 70's / Benny Hill / YewTree. The fact they are paid to 'entertain' the great and good is just plain creepy.

UCI Downhill seems to manage without them.

Just out of interest, I'm pretty sure the Sun didn't ban their page 3 pics. I can't remember exactly why they decided to get rid of it, but I think it was on the back of public opinion of one form or another. I'm sure there must be other examples where sexism either just wasn't considered acceptable and faded out or was pressured by public opinion.

Using these routes would mean that OOB concerns as to "where the line is drawn" could be avoided completely. It would likely be an iterative process (or public debate*) and stuff like "attractive person with sporting talent" could be considered by race organiser/PR dept/audience alike. Rather than a more draconian legally binding approach.

* Just like this thread!

In the same way that the TdF confirms men are valued only for their physical prowess and mental courage.

If you really think that is the same as women being just for show.. words fail me.

Now look here. The women on the podium get several hundred quid for pouting and not having a name or personality. Easy life. OK so the men get to become famous millionaires; household names with knighthoods renowned for their sporting prowess. But they have to cycle up a mountain! If anything, it's the men who are hard done by here.

Just out of interest, I'm pretty sure the Sun didn't ban their page 3 pics.

Hiring girls under 18 was banned by the CPA. The two criteria are clearly stated. ...but yeah broadly speaking people didn't want to buy newspapers with boobs in them so the papers stopped printing them. Seems good to me.

It would likely be an iterative process (or public debate*) and stuff like "attractive person with sporting talent" could be considered by race organiser/PR dept/audience alike. Rather than a more draconian legally binding approach.

Or to put it another way leave the status quo exactly as it is. The organizers just design a prize giving that they think works for punters/media/sponsors within the law as is stands hiring appropriate staff to provide that. Yeah, that could work. 😀

And it's fair enough for the punters (me) to say it's one of the things that makes pro cycling look a bit naff and old fashioned.

And it's fair enough for the punters (me) to say it's one of the things that makes pro cycling look a bit naff and old fashioned.

Yup.

Although, the organizers know the punters are gonna watch the racing anyway and they know punters aren't watching for the prize giving. So I suspect this is far more about getting the images into the mainstream media to get the advertizers logos visible to people who aren't watching the sport already.

And the advertizers just want what the media want.

So probably the media have the real power here.

Except the media just show the news that 'the general public' want to buy.

So it's *all* our fault. We need to take a long hard look at ourselves. 🙁

I'll post the link again because it is an interesting listen (Cycling Podcast is a great listen during the Tour full stop)

Here they interview female and male pro cyclists, organisers and a number of the Podium girls themselves at the start of this years race:

https://thecyclingpodcast.com/podcast/kilometre-0-tour-de-france-2017

I'm a bit 50/50, i do think the practise is a bit antiquated yes, but listening to the ladies themselves, it is somethine they clearly enjoy doing.

I personally think podium girls are the least of cycling problems when it comes to the fairer sex, the fact that most of the mens teams don't have a ladies team as well (Sky stated from the start they were going to), that the ladies don't get the TV coverage, that they don't get the "proper" Grand Tours and that the women's race at the TdF is a crit on the final day basically, i think if ASO need a kick up the backside, it's not for having attractive ladies on the podium, it's for the fact that they don't think people would want to watch them race proper races on TV.

[i] people didn't want to buy newspapers with boobs in them[/i]

Some Sun readers yesterday
[img] http://tinyurl.com/ya7mndwk [/img]

The clue is in the name, Tour de France. They have a different view of these things, they are not overwhelmed by political correctness for one

Actually I think the French now have legislation about models' weight etc - whether it's enforced, or sufficient, I don't know.

Boardinbob - there is no need for the personal attack and name calling. I have no idea who you are - should I ??

I suspect this is far more about getting the images into the mainstream media to get the advertizers logos visible to people who aren't watching the sport already.

There's probably some truth in this. How do you get your brand in the papers? Get the paparazzi to take photos of it. How do you get them to take photos? Hire some photogenic ladies.

[quote=hels ]Boardinbob - there is no need for the personal attack and name calling. I have no idea who you are - should I ??

So just to clarify, it's ok for you to criticise the podium girls for what they (don't) eat and laugh at them when they're doing their job?

In fairness, F1 got rid of it years ago

Maybe, but they still spray a lot of champagne around, promoting alcoholism. It would be better if they used a vegetable-based health drink.

I personally think podium girls are the least of cycling problems when it comes to the fairer sex, the fact that most of the mens teams don't have a ladies team as well

Agreed, but the thread's about PGs.

i do think the practise is a bit antiquated yes, but listening to the ladies themselves, it is somethine they clearly enjoy doing.

Again, I've a friend who jumped at the chance to do it and be part of a big local event, and fair enough. Still naff though

Maybe, but they still spray a lot of champagne around, promoting alcoholism. It would be better if they used a vegetable-based health drink.

If it concerns you, feel free to start a thread about it.

It makes the sport seem stuck in the past. It sends out the message that in cycling a woman's place is on the podium lookin purdy not on the bike kicking ass. It also sends out the message that male cyclists are girlfriendless losers who only get to be around women if those women are paid. It's insulting to everyone, it's seedy and dated, and it doesn't do the sport any favours.

The brunette on the right of Sagan a few days ago was very nice.

Maybe, but they still spray a lot of champagne around, promoting alcoholism.

???? How does [u]spraying [/u]champagne about promote alcoholism?
Surely alcoholics would drink the stuff...

They might as well be called Imodium Girls , cause i'm guessing they'd struggle to give a shit what we all think about it.

Oooooo and he missed.

I know Imodium rhymes with podium but I'm afraid loperamide reduces bowel motility.

So what you really want is Picolax girls but that could turn out messy.

Oooooo and he missed.

I know Imodium rhymes with podium but I'm afraid loperamide reduces bowel motility.

So what you really want is Picolax girls but that could turn out messy.

I think you'll find they are correct.

Page 1, D_S? do catch up!

It also sends out the message that male cyclists are girlfriendless losers who only get to be around women if those women are paid.

To be fair, based on many I know, that's probably not a million miles off the mark....... 😆 😆 😆

Yup.

Although, the organizers know the punters are gonna watch the racing anyway and they know punters aren't watching for the prize giving. So I suspect this is far more about getting the images into the mainstream media to get the advertizers logos visible to people who aren't watching the sport already.

And the advertizers just want what the media want.

So probably the media have the real power here.

[b]Except the media just show the news that 'the general public' want to buy.[/b]

So it's *all* our fault. We need to take a long hard look at ourselves.

+1

The brunette on the right of Sagan a few days ago was very nice.

She tells me that you're a munter.

I'm afraid loperamide reduces bowel motility.

I'm struggling to give a shit about this.

On account of my reduced bowel motility.

Because of all the Imodium.

She's right ransos.

derek_starship - Member

So what you really want is Picolax girls

I don't know who told you that but it's a lie

I have an alternative to arguing for a million pages about this. Here's a podium, tell me, does [i]anyone[/i] not think this is a better look?

[img] [/img]

I think we've had the EWS girlie's podium before. Someone managed to take umbrage at that too... 😐

What we must do is legislate against Podium Girls and increase the state budget accordingly. Or just ignore the professionally offended.

What we must do is legislate against Podium Girls and increase the state budget accordingly. Or just ignore the professionally offended

Or just get everyone to realise it is 2017

2017, the Year of the Professionally Offended.

Should be added to the Chinese Calendar, maybe as a fat thong-wearing sweaty hippo eating a kebab.

2017, the Year of the Professionally Offended.

Yeah, of course it is.

[quote=enfht ]What we must do is legislate against Podium Girls and increase the state budget accordingly. Or just ignore the professionally offended.

You are indeed an example to us all on how to do this 🙄

TBH anyone who is not a knuckle dragger seems to annoy you.

What era do you wish you were born in 18 Th century or was that a bit liberal and multicultural for your tastes ?

Oh don't be so pathetic, your ilk attack anyone who doesn't share your narrow world view and you should be treated with the ridicule you deserve. Whether you like it or not, the FREEDOM to work as, or employ podium models is more important than you getting offended.

2017, the Year of the Professionally Offended.

Is your problem with the 'Professionally Offended' is that they get paid to get upset about stuff when you have to get upset about stuff for free?

Woah there Einstein * last post you said to ignore them now they deserve it

When you have made your mind up about which view you support perhaps we can discuss it?
You really a reactionary wee fella who is supremely upset that the world has moved on as your views remain routed in bygone times ...you lost so much you cannot even express your personal views openly on here, unlike me.

You also might want to read my first post on the subject before delivering me your OTT knee jerk reaction - though of course you reserve the right to admonish others for doing this

PS I assume you are now overwhelmingly in support of the right to wear the Burka then as you now you have principle and consistency 😉

* he is Jewish AND foreign

I wish podium girls weren't involved in cycling but it will need younger men running the sport. I used to hire girle for event publicity (working at the Boat Show or wandering round Villages giving out free fags ion the build up the British Grand Prix.). But then I stopped being in that line of work and thought it had pretty much started fading. A few months back we had a new product to launch and the commercial director decided what wee needed was "totty" in tight t-shirts handing out product. He looked quite surprised when I laughed assuming it was a joke. He also made several comments about how it must be nice for us working with a colleague as she was 'fit'. It was nice working with her as she was a talented hard working woman who was good at sport and also happened to be physically attractive. I don't think anyone of us when first think of her thought of her body, she was a person we liked and a member of our team.
For the commercial director that would have been an impossible state of mind to acheive.
People like him are still at the top in cycling and many other long running sports, when they go things may change.
If you want to feel slightly better about podium girls on the TDF look at what girls have to do at motoX events.

I'm looking at YOU Maxxis. 👿

But in Portugal the Feminino class winners get boys, yes I know, but at least their tryinng

[img]

[img]

[url= http://www.facebook.com/BTTALTE/photos/a.1425704407451038.1073741832.220910064597151/1425745157446963/?type=3&theater ]Linky[/url]

But in Portugal the Feminino class winners get boys

"boys"? Thats so demeaning. They're [u]men[/u]. Men is weird tiny boys trousers admittedly, but men non the less.

Oh don't be so pathetic, your ilk attack anyone who doesn't share your narrow world view and you should be treated with the ridicule you deserve. Whether you like it or not, the FREEDOM to work as, or employ podium models is more important than you getting offended.

The Jim Davidson appreciation thread is ----------------------------->

Boring mode again, but I've not spotted a single comment from an affected woman here.

Lots of bickering, shouty and occasionally well-meaning men, but not one woman with 'podium girl'as a potential employment avenue, making a contribution.

Let women make their own choice regarding what they want to do; after years of men deciding what's best for them, the best course of action is to keep our traps shut, and listen.

it really depends though - just because woman would choose to do it does not mean men are not allowed opinions

A woman cannot fight on the front line in the UK are women therefore not allowed opinion on war or fighting?Does my penis give me a special right to comment?

As I said at the start its a tough one as it is freedom of choice but it is also pandering to outdated , outmoded and unnecessary sexism where women are there to be "decorative".

I notice few of those who re arguing about freedom of choice do this when a muslim woman wears a burka - there that is ll the fault of men but here it all the womans choice and about empowerment
Its pretty disingenuous IMHO

Does my penis give me a special right to comment?

Is that why you keep posting those pics to the mods?

Does my penis give me a special right to comment?

Dunno - have you got a picture?

EDIT - darn, too slow 🙁

😆

I notice few of those who re arguing about freedom of choice do this when a muslim woman wears a burka

If podium girls were obliged to wear a sexy uniform and makeup at all times, their whole life, you might have a point. But they don't, any more than Christopher Reeve had to wear a cape at all times. It's a role. If you can't separate reality from fantasy, then please don't go near the edge of tall buildings.

after years of men deciding what's best for them, the best course of action is to keep our traps shut, and listen.

Listen to all of them, but yes.

As I said at the start its a tough one as it is freedom of choice but it is also pandering to outdated , outmoded and unnecessary sexism where women are there to be "decorative".

Indeed. I have the same quandary.

Are we most effective in supporting the empowerment of women by not opposing their choice to become podium ladies, or are we better supporting them by questioning the notion that podium ladies should exist at all?

I'm not sure as I have the answer to that. In fact, I'm not convinced that it's a binary answer.

I'm not convinced that it's a binary answer.

To expand on that,

I think where I'm at is, I disagree with the idea that we have to deny that humans are sexual creatures - we're repressed enough to start with. Rather, what we perhaps should be rallying against is the idea that that's [i]all [/i]some of us are. Attractiveness and sexuality is a small part of a greater human whole, striving to make that either 100% or 0% of our make-up is equally flawed.

Lots of bickering, shouty and occasionally well-meaning men, but not one woman with 'podium girl'as a potential employment avenue, making a contribution.

Let women make their own choice regarding what they want to do; after years of men deciding what's best for them, the best course of action is to keep our traps shut, and listen.

Hence my "80s man" post a few months back. It was what? Yesterday? Blimey.

the idea that we have to deny that humans are sexual creatures

Do we? If so what does it add exactly?

Someone said earlier something like "yay, let's all be asexual."

I think what I mean is, I believe that everyone should be free and comfortable in using and enjoying their bodies, looks and sexuality in any way they see fit, and society need to learn to be comfortable with that. Some celebrity gets a nipple out one day and the handbrake gets pulled on the Earth's rotation; that's just crazy, we've (almost) all got nipples and they're fairly similar.

But I also think that it's archaic to view other people solely as sex objects there for our enjoyment, or to judge people based purely on their looks. I don't think it's good for people or for society to be encouraging that sort behaviour or normalising it. I abhor "lad" culture, the "tits out for the lads" brigade, it makes me ashamed to be male.

The dichotomy I have is that I'm not convinced that discouraging the former is the most effective way of discouraging the latter. Perhaps if we could all just grow the **** up a bit it'd be a lot better for all concerned.

I just dont think it adds anything to the event personally.

There will always be roles for beautiful people as there will for brainy people but we no more need stephen Hawking at this event than we do an attractive human form.
Its adds nothing and they are almost exclusively one gender.

I also think that it's archaic to view other people solely as sex objects there for our enjoyment, or to judge people based purely on their looks

I just dont think it adds anything to the event personally.

Which may well be the point.

I don't think there's anything wrong in admiring the female - or male - form. We're hard-wired to do so (otherwise we'd be extinct). But whether it's necessary or indeed appropriate to 'sex up' an awards ceremony however, probably not.