[Closed] Podium girls

lots of straw men in this thread. Has anyone actually proposed banning anything, as opposed to just stopping purchasing the services of podium girls?

So hands up for those here of the middle aged male fraternity, would you be happy for your daughter to be a podium girl and to be ogled by other middle aged men?

I'm hoping for some nuanced comments...

So any paid activity is acceptable if you can find someone to volunteer for it?

Maybe the question should be rather, if you cannot handle what you see, then you should be questioning yourself, not asking them to hide.

Maybe the question should be rather, if you cannot handle what you see, then you should be questioning yourself, not asking them to hide.

More straw men... how about answering the question?

So any paid activity is acceptable if you can find someone to volunteer for it?

In the bad old days didn't 30 odd riders die of strokes. I doubt any podium girls did. Who was being exploited?

Don't understand your point? Both were being used.

Re the daughter question.. I have four and I would have no problem with them being podium girls whatsoever if they chose to do it. I would have more of a problem with people assuming they can dictate what my daughters should or shouldnt do.

I would have more of a problem with people assuming they can dictate what my daughters should or shouldnt do.

So any paid activity is acceptable if you can find someone to volunteer for it?

wwaswas
Or do we say 'actually, this thing you want to do we as a society (or whatever) have decided is inappropriate for anyone to do regardless of their personal willingness to do it'?

There are many many more subjects at which we could thrown this debate and sadly all lose. It comes down to individual choice...end of!

Who are we to collectively decide the moral compass for a global population.

It comes down to individual choice...end of!

So any paid activity is acceptable if you can find someone to volunteer for it?

I have 2 daughters and would encourage them to do whatever they wished to do in life, if that included being a podium girl, go for it.

I'm for binning the podium girls. It's not because they are not pleasing on the eye - they are. It's not even because it's demeaning for women - even though I think it is. But mainly because it's demeaning to the event and the rider. It's just does not needed - the star of the show should be the winner/ class leader. It does not need any more dressing up or aesthetic additions. They are irrelevant fluff that is not needed.

So hands up for those here of the middle aged male fraternity, would you be happy for your daughter to be a podium girl and to be ogled by other middle aged men?

Yes, no issue for me at all. An ex girlfriend of mine was an F1 grid girl/hostess while she was a student - first class travel to Japan/Malaysia, put up in a 5* hotel for a week, stand around looking pretty for two or three days and get paid enough to clear all her fees in two stints.
Most importantly, she got [b]zero[/b] hassle from anyone and was under strict instructions to report improper advances to the minders who would happily sort out the gorilla fraternity.

I have 2 daughters and would encourage them to do whatever they wished to do in life, if that included being a podium girl, go for it.

So any paid activity is acceptable if you can find someone to volunteer for it?

So hands up for those here of the middle aged male fraternity, would you be happy for your daughter to be a podium girl and to be ogled by other middle aged men?

And the same question to the female contingent on the forum?

Surely this easy answer to this to have pretty girls on odd days and hunky men on even days, so the winner can get their trophy kiss and flowers. Or both, where the winner gets kissed on his/her cheek by one of each?

Cos if its not about sex and all that then there should be no problem.

I have 2 daughters and would encourage them to do whatever they wished to do in life, if that included being a podium girl, go for it.

So would you be fine if they wanted to be a lap dancer, prostitute, stripper or porn actor?

What happens in motorbike racing?

Surely this easy answer to this to have pretty girls on odd days and hunky men on even days, so the winner can get their trophy kiss and flowers. Or both, where the winner gets kissed on his/her cheek by one of each?

To simplify things, why not just have one male and one female?

What happens in motorbike racing?

People ride motorised cycles round a track. The first to the chequered flag wins.

HTH 8)

So would you be fine if they wanted to be a lap dancer, prostitute, stripper or porn actor?

Well, this is why I keep asking if any paid activity is ok, and I find the silence instructive.

Why have the podium girls with clothes on? I'm sure the TdF could rustle up a naked porn star or two, at the right price, pleasuring the stage winner if he so desires, and surely no-one would object if their daughter was to undertake said employment?

Good idea Jamie! Saves costs too!

What happens in motorbike racing?

[img] [/img]

So would you be fine if they wanted to be a lap dancer, prostitute, stripper or porn actor?

I certainly wouldn't encourage it, but I think that you might have misread the podium girls job description somewhere along the way and have become confused about the discussion we are having.

I certainly wouldn't encourage it, but I think that you might have misread the podium girls job description somewhere along the way and have become confused about the discussion we are having.

The argument made for keeping podium girls is that there's no problem because they want to do it. So why not a porn star, if that's what they want?

I think we need to ban all professional sport, except maybe darts, as all the fit athletes are making me body conscious 🙁

So would you be fine if they wanted to be a lap dancer, prostitute, stripper or porn actor?

Those jobs are nothign like working in PR, and nothing like each other - or do you think that because someone can be good at their job, in part. because of the why they look they're bascially whores?

If that is what they want, then ok. It would make me very uncomfortable and would make me question my calibre as a parent. I am not in the business of telling anyone what to do, but I would not encourage it.

The difference between getting to be a podium girl for a day and having a career as a prostitute is not a subtle one though and I am not sure what relevance it has to this debate.

Those jobs are nothign like working in PR, and nothing like each other - or do you think that because someone can be good at their job, in part. because of the why they look they're bascially whores?

The jobs all have one thing in common: people are willing to do them.

cinnamon_girl - Member 
What happens in motorbike racing?

See post from Page 2 - Dani Pedrosa (Moto GP) uses a 'Brella Fella

The difference between getting to be a podium girl for a day and having a career as a prostitute is not a subtle one though and I am not sure what relevance it has to this debate.

Because, again, the argument being made for keeping podium girls is that they're willing to do it.

The jobs all have one thing in common: people are willing to do them.

I am not sure anyone is fighting this point but you seem to be clinging onto it despite the silence and lack of opposition.

I am not sure anyone is fighting this point but you seem to be clinging onto it despite the silence and lack of opposition. Which is "telling"

The silence is because no-one is prepared to answer the question.

What is the question ransos? I shall do my best. 😆

What is the question ransos? I shall do my best.

So any paid activity is acceptable if you can find someone to volunteer for it?

So any paid activity is acceptable if you can find someone to volunteer for it?

No. People volunteer to be suicide bombers. Still not sure what relevance that has to this whole debate and it was not a point I would attempt to defend.

My problem with podium girls isn't so much that they exist, more that they're often the only place where women are visible in cycling. This week the Giro Rosa is taking place with virtually no tv coverage, whereas the podium girls at the TdF are on TV every day. I want to see women in a variety of roles in cycling and elsewhere rather than just acting as trophies.

No, that is a stupid assertion. People volunteer to be suicide bombers. Still not sure what relevance that has to this whole debate and it was not a point I would attempt to defend.

It was a question, not an assertion. That's why I used a question mark.

If you don't believe that any activity is acceptable even if the individual wishes to volunteer, then "podium girls must be ok because they want to do it" doesn't hold water as an argument, does it?

It was a question, not an assertion. That's why I used a question mark.

..and that is why I edited my response.

If you don't believe that any activity is acceptable even if the individual wishes to volunteer, then "podium girls must be ok because they want to do it" doesn't hold water as an argument, does it?

That was never my argument.

Stating the obvious but there are two types of people arguing here:
Those that wish to impose their moral "code" on others and those that allow the individual to maintain their own moral code.

I find some of the comments from fathers who wish to dictate what they would like their daughters to do in life more anachronistic than the continued use of podium fluff.

Personally, I think podium girls
/boys are unnecessary but people with better marketing skills than me will no doubt tell the companies involved whether it's better for their image and therefore bottom line.

As long as the participants are not being exploited, it's within the law and safety concerns are addressed (to answer the earlier question about asbestos), carry on as far as I'm concerned....

At the end of the day, everyone has various strengths and weaknesses.Some have brains, some have brawn, some are blessed with good looks and as long as people have the choice to exploit their attributes and are appropriately rewarded, I don't see any problem.

That was never my argument.

Ok. So what did you mean by:

If that is what they want, then ok.

and

I have 2 daughters and would encourage them to do whatever they wished to do in life

If that is what they want, then ok.

I meant that I would not dream of trying to dictate what my daughters do because of the aforementioned moral agency that they possess.

Now, if they were being abused or exploited, were breaking the law or were doing harm to someone else I might have something to say about it, but I do not believe that "podium girl" crosses any of these lines.

My problem with podium girls isn't so much that they exist, more that they're often the only place where women are visible in cycling. This week the Giro Rosa is taking place with virtually no tv coverage, whereas the podium girls at the TdF are on TV every day. I want to see women in a variety of roles in cycling and elsewhere rather than just acting as trophies.

Please take a minute or 30 to watch the EWS and DH highlights from the weekend. The TDF is one of the biggest sporting events in the world so of course it gets a ton of coverage, the girls just happen to be a side part of that.

Now, if they were being abused or exploited, were breaking the law or were doing harm to someone else I might have something to say about it, but I do not believe that "podium girl" crosses any of these lines.

So what you're saying is that there are circumstances in which it's not ok for your daughters to do what they may wish. That is at odds with

I have 2 daughters and would encourage them to do whatever they wished to do in life

But we (society / government) don't believe any activity is acceptable. We have a nuanced view from totally acceptable to totally unacceptable, mainly driven by it being 'harmful' to others or society in general. hence suicide bombing / murder / asbestos.... etc. are not allowed.

Whether you think it acceptable for some people to want to be podium models or porn actors is your call, 'society' has deemed that it is (and you may argue that point and I can see a valid view there). But once it's been deemed acceptable then yes it is OK for people to choose to want to do it. It's also therefore acceptable for the TdF to employ them if they choose to, question is whether that is desirable in this day and age.

I am sorry, I wasn't aware there were points for pedantry. You win.

I'd really like the casual misogyny in everyday life to be banished but, on a positive note, I've never experienced sexism in bike shops. 🙂

I am sorry, I wasn't aware there were points for pedantry. You win.

Your entire rationale was based around libertarianism, whereas in fact you have limits of acceptability, just like everyone else. I find it interesting that you view this as pedantry.

The debate, therefore, is around what we deem to be acceptable rather than some absolutist right. Or as theotherjonv puts it:

It's also therefore acceptable for the TdF to employ them if they choose to, question is whether that is desirable in this day and age.

Yeah. Terrible. In this day and age...

Still - phwooaaar, eh? Eh?

As a counterpoint - if it is not acceptable for a person to seek and gain employment for their 'skill' or 'capability' of being nice looking - why is it acceptable in the same way for people to to seek and gain employment for other 'god given*' talents such as intelligence, or physical prowess such as speed or strength.

The race itself is morally flawed in the same way...... riders should be selected at random from birth, rather than for any actual reason. they couldn't look any worse than Chris Froome, at least.

* term not chosen to be religious, YKWIM

they couldn't look any worse than Chris Froome, at least.

On a bike I mean. Nothing wrong with the way he looks, if bald skeletal men float your boat.

Oh shit, this hole's getting bigger.....

Oh shit, this hole's getting bigger.....

Quick! Get your tits out! It's the only way to distract everyone.

on a positive note, I've never experienced sexism in bike shops

Neither have I but I have experienced sexism in a few other shops - being called brave for taking my kids to Tesco FFS, especially as leaving them home alone would have had me arrested for child neglect.

Back on topic is it not sexist that there are no podium boys on the tdf? Or am I going to be wrong on that front too 😳

What's the difference between a podium girl and a catwalk model in moral or cultural terms?

Jimjam - male models perhaps?

Dickyboy - Member

Jimjam - male models perhaps?

So we just need podium beefcakes for female sports and we're all square?

a model is necessary for clothes to be displayed on

podium girls are pointless

reggiegasket - Member

a model is necessary for clothes to be displayed on

[img] [/img]

I find it interesting that there are so many people indulging in a hand-wringing exercise in getting offended on behalf of other people, in this case women who happen to be both attractive and intelligent, and suggesting that those people should be banned from being paid well to do a job that they seem to enjoy, on the basis that they find those jobs demeaning, which I can't help but feel is both patronising and sexist.
I would have no issue with a daughter of mine, were I to actually have a daughter, choosing to do any damned job she chose to do, the only proviso being the job is safe and doesn't expose her to any risks outside what would be acceptable in any workplace; this I think covers ransos incessant repeating the same sodding quote, in that I wouldn't be happy with porn or prostitution [i]because[/i] of the clear risk to health and safety!
Being a podium girl isn't a great deal different to being an attractive female singer in a band, which results in being objectified by male gig-goers, and, from my many years of gig-going, a very significant number of female gig-goers.
There have been certain gigs I've been to featuring female artists where you couldn't get near the front because it was all packed with girls, so the objectivisation is clearly equal-opportunity here!
This situation is even recognised by the term 'Sleeper bloke', from the band Sleeper, where Louise Wenner was the main object of attention, the rest of the band being merely a bunch of blokes there to provide backing.
It went even further with theaudience, where the male members of the band got fed up of being ignored in favour of their singer, one Sophie Ellis-Bextor, so got rid of her.
Wherefore art thou now, theaudience?

podium girls are pointless

The debate, therefore, is around what we deem to be acceptable rather than some absolutist right. Or as theotherjonv puts it:

In that case, it seems lots of folk do find podium girls acceptable. Including, quite crucially, the podium girls themselves.

Turns out the debate was quite simple in the end.

Personally speaking, if porn and prostitution was legislated and therefore subject to H&S I would sleep better at night regardless of whether my daughter chose either as a career choice.

Maybe if people spent less time worrying about what people did with their bodies and more time on getting other folk to respect them we wouldn't need to have this debate.

Personally speaking, if porn and prostitution was legislated and therefore subject to H&S

Kneepads and safety goggles?

[url= http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/peta-slammed-for-70sstyle-sexism-and-ambush-marketing-after-hiring-bikiniclad-women-to-hand-out-a3579106.html ]Right on, sisters.[/url]

I'm kinda torn on this.

On the one hand, my inner feminist is against the blatant objectification of women. "Podium girls" feels to me to be something that should have gone the way of Gene Hunt.

On the other, the liberal part of my brain thinks that denying that both women and men are sexual creatures and that finding someone aesthetically pleasing is somehow to be condemned is something dragging us back to Victorian times. Elsewhere on STW right now we're discussing whether it's appropriate for your children to see you naked.

I guess maybe, the issue is one of balance. These people are models, and modelling as a career goes back decades for both sexes. If your son got a job with Cartier to model wris****ches it's not because he's got a Chemistry degree, it's because he's pretty / hunky / otherwise physically attractive. Yet I don't see people anywhere coming out of the woodwork to demonise the objectification of men, or campaigning to ban the Chippendales.

I was about to write about how being viewed as a great set of abs / boobs isn't healthy but now I've suddenly just realised; it's not the model that's the problem is it, rather it's the viewer. We all have our strengths, be that intelligence, power, speed, strategy... or beauty. Why should we devalue that if that's someone's greatest asset? Why is that something we should be shamed into being less proud of or bullied into not taking advantage of? We get whatever dice rolls we're born with, you can't choose to be clever any more than you can choose to be pretty.

No, the problem is that there's a subset of men - mostly men, though I've encountered sufficient hen parties to know it's not an exclusive trait - who look at a member of their preferred sex and think it's ok to shout across the street "bloody hell, look at the arse on that, I bet you bang like a shithouse door!"

So the issue then is respect, isn't it. It's the line - and really, it should be more of a motorway - between being able to look at a pretty girl / guy and think "oh, she's pretty" and extrapolating that into them just being there to be used for our gratification. And so the solution isn't banning podium girls, it's teaching young people (ok, primarily men) not to grow up to be disrespectful arseholes. Oh, and get some podium boys in too whilst you're at it.

Cougar, earlier....

[img] [/img]

I've never experienced sexism in bike shops.

I have. Went into a popular high street chain to buy a bike. My OH, who a) was the one buying the bike and b) at the time knew more about the subject than me asked loads of questions, and the sales guy told me all the answers.

this I think covers ransos incessant repeating the same sodding quote, in that I wouldn't be happy with porn or prostitution because of the clear risk to health and safety!

I think the big difference here is that these ladies are choosing this career. I'm far from an expert but I'd have thought that most (but of course not all) prostitutes instead "fall" into the profession. I expect that little Tamsin, 14, from Bristol is far more likely to have "model" as a career aspiration than "prostitute."

In UFC when there is a womens weigh-in or womens fight they still have "podium girls" walking round in bikinis. It looks daft, I dont like it. In the TdF I'm not so bothered, they've got clothes on, they're doing a job but I guess if I were to vote I'd say get rid.

In UFC when there is a womens weigh-in or womens fight they still have "podium girls" walking round in bikinis. It looks daft, I dont like it. In the TdF I'm not so bothered, they've got clothes on, they're doing a job but I guess if I were to vote I'd say get rid.

Just watch Rizin. They have women and...erm...I want to say men?

Yes men and women could wear cup noodle outfits and that would be fair.

I'd be happy with my daughter being a podium girl. If she was fit but thiick as shite, like.

Yes men and women could wear cup noodle outfits and that would be fair.

As long as we can see the noodle's package, then I'm onboard with that.

I'd be happy with my daughter being a podium girl. If she was fit but thiick as shite, like.

What if she was fit and intelligent?

Dani Pedrosa has been using 'Brella Fella's for a while now.

if I recall correctly there's more than one Moto GP rider that has their wife next to them. I seem to recall Lucy Crutchlow on the grid with Cal.... Could be wrong mind....

I think I'm wrong, but....

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/sport/motogp/2017/may/motogp-spanish-politicians-clamping-down-on-grid-girls/

I miss the Maxxis babes 🙁

(More seriously, to go all flag-waving-outraged on a forum is actually a bit naff. Women nowadays have voices, choices and don't need you lot to say what's good for them).

As above, I can't really get too worked up about it. One for the professionally offended I think.

I do wish other ladies would comment. 🙂

Considering these are possibly the best athletes in the world; would it be appropriate for an average looking girl to be kissing them on the cheek and handing them a bunch of flowers?

Only if it's Sagan. 😉

Sorry, CG. Been a bit busy.