[Closed] Podium girls

Yep tour down under got shot as it's a 70s throw back. Also really doesn't fit with the promotion of women's sport.

Though 3 2 1 knuckle draggers on their way to gawp and have a little fumble over the eye candy

'hôtesses du Tour'

https://twitter.com/letour_hotesses

It's awful I agree FWIW

It's bad enough at motor shows, but the type of people who are 'into cars' probably have that type of mentality.

In fairness, F1 got rid of it years ago.

Presumably they're not struggling with recruiting gorgeous young ladies to stand there and look gorgeous? As long as they're well paid what's the problem?

Agreed, it's day has passed.

err because it's objectification of women. The promotion that they are to admired because of their bodies, merely for the pleasure of men.

As long as they're well paid what's the problem?

Some good reasons here

“The Government’s paying for grid girls at the same time we’re putting money into mental health areas to help young women who have body image problems,” Bignell said.

“What we actually want to do is inspire girls and young women who come to the motor racing to be car drivers or to be mechanics or to be engineers.”

Podium girls are a long-standing tradition in cycling. Officially known as “hostesses”, these models present and assist race winners with their jerseys and trophies before planting a ceremonial kiss on their cheeks.

Yet the use of podium girls is met with an increasing amount of disdain every year due to the objectifying use of women, and the continued display of women in sports as trophy holders instead of athletes.

As long as they're well paid what's the problem?

Because it continues to objectify women.

They might as well be called Imodium Girls , cause i'm guessing they'd struggle to give a shit what we all think about it.

err because it's objectification of women.

In whose eyes?

The promotion that they are to admired because of their bodies, merely for the pleasure of men.

Who's exploiting who here?

loddrik - Member

.....but the type of people who are 'into cars' probably have that type of mentality. Cycling really needs to move with the times.

I agreed with what you were saying until the moronic bit above....

Are 'cycling' people somehow better than 'into cars' people, or perhaps more 'with the times'?

i'm guessing they'd struggle to give a shit what we all think about it.

Probably true, but there's an argument that the issue is a smaller part of a bigger problem, and that when all the small parts are tackled the bigger problem is solved.

Maybe.

Try the reasons from South Australia cg. They are real and serious concerns about reinforcement of stereotypes and gender roles along with body image, basically sport wants women there looking nice not taking part.

err because it's objectification of women.

In whose eyes?

The promotion that they are to admired because of their bodies, merely for the pleasure of men.

Who's exploiting who here?

I guess you could apply the same reasoning to female prostitution.

In fairness, F1 got rid of it years ago.

Not seen the F1 grid girls on the grid and when the drivers are walking to the podium!?

C_G been sacked from that Spare Rib job then? 😉

Marcus Brigstocke was a podium dancer.....

Does that count?

Thanks for that link Mike. I'll quote from Peyote's post which is rather good:

Probably true, but there's an argument that the issue is a smaller part of a bigger problem, and that when all the small parts are tackled the bigger problem is solved.

Maybe.

On a serious note women who wish to, er, exploit their assets can now do so on their terms and Katie Price is a good example of this. So again, I ask the question who's exploiting who?

Do boxing matches still have ladies parading round the ring with a round number placard?

Not seen the F1 grid girls on the grid and when the drivers are walking to the podium!?

Ah so not completely stopped then.

Not stopped in any way!...

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/photos/main-gallery/?sz=9&t=grid+girl&s=-6&oft=136&p=4

I thought the whole point of feminism was that we are all equal. Do women need you lot to defend them?

If you think they do you may have missed the point...

Try the reasons from South Australia cg. They are real and serious concerns about reinforcement of stereotypes and gender roles along with body image, basically sport wants women there looking nice not taking part.

And yet we see this posted on a bike forum:

http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/god-help-me-im-enjoying-love-island

😉

I ask the question who's exploiting who?

I would say that the individual 'podium girl' is 'exploiting' her assets, however the concept is exploiting women and promoting objectification.

They individually may not feel they are exploiting themselves, but they do no favours for other women.

[i]I thought the whole point of feminism was that we are all equal. Do women need you lot to defend them?

If you think they do you may have missed the point..[/i]

Maybe if you think they don't then you've missed the point?

I see no good in saying Women should be banned from earning money any way they want to, including working in PR.

I don't think it's a bad thing at people can, and are paid for being good looking - Men and Women with a broad appeal look are paid to promote products and services because other people like looking at them - it's hardly forced prostitution.

Who's exploiting who here?

I guess you could apply the same reasoning to female prostitution.

You certainly could.

If there's a transaction occuring at an agreed price then both parties are willing then nobody's being exploited.

Clearly if there's coersion involved that changes things but I see no evidence that Podium girls are being forced into it.

I thought the whole point of feminism was that we are all equal. Do women need you lot to defend them?

Depends on the branch of feminism, and on the route to that particular ideal.

No women don't need men to defend them, it doesn't do any harm (and probably helps) to have members of the class in power supporting the oppressed class though. Just got to be careful how you do it and not seek to take over the control of the movement. See also white supporters of the civil rights movements.

I see no good in saying Women should be banned from earning money any way they want to, including working in PR.

"Banned" is an oft-misused word. I think what we're saying is that we'd prefer it if professional cycling events didn't employ podium girls (or boys).

I see no evidence that Podium girls are being forced into it.

It's all about the context I guess. Assuming they arrive at their vocation after having the same choices that men do is probably not a sensible way of looking at it.

I dont see the problem, no-one is forcing them to do it. There are bigger problems in the world than this.

it doesn't do any harm (and probably helps) to have members of the class in power supporting the oppressed class though

In this case supporting the oppressed class by ceasing to buy their 'product' so they get sacked.

There are bigger problems in the world than this.

Sexism at British Cycling?

There's two separate issues in these type of discussions.

On an individual level, the podium girls (or strippers, or whatever else this type of discussion is about) should of course be allowed to do whatever they like.

But at a society level, having women (or men) there simply as eye candy is not a healthy thing as it promotes inequality and bad body image, especially for younger people. It shouldn't be banned, but I don't think it's the kind of message that should be encouraged at major sporting events.

[i]There are bigger problems in the world than this.[/i]

There's very few problems in the world that there aren't bigger problems in the world than. It doesn't mean that they should all be ignored.

My view is that, whatever the individual choices of the women involved are, the podium girl is a symbol of the 'spoils of victory' - the laurels, the trophy cup, the jersey, the trophy woman.

And that's why it's bad - women as an incidental adjunct to victory, objects to be won by the fastest and the fittest, willing to symbolically present themselves to whoever the winner happens to be.

In this case supporting the oppressed class by ceasing to buy their 'product' so they get sacked.

May be on an individual level, but if you view that product as detrimental in the grander scheme of things, its a price worth paying.

I could compare it to the tobacco trade and the tobacco leaf pickers getting sacked because their 'product' is considered damaging to people and society. I'm not sure if that is too tenuous, but I'm sure you catch my drift.

Podium girls, formally known as "Tour hostesses" (French: hôtesses du Tour), are women who are best known for presenting prizes and kisses to the winners of the Tour de France and other major cycle races, including the Giro d'Italia and Vuelta a España. In the Tour de France, a team of four podium girls is employed by the race's main sponsor, the French bank LCL S.A..[1] They are responsible for entertaining clients of the sponsors before the morning departure of the race and in parties after the end of the race, but their most visible and prestigious role is in the award ceremony at the close of each day's racing. The job requires working long hours in all weather conditions but is [b]well-paid and sought-after[/b], with candidates selected on the basis of their looks, endurance, personalities, and linguistic abilities. Although they are forbidden to interact with the riders, other than kissing them in the award ceremonies, several podium girls have ended up marrying cyclists. The employment of podium girls has prompted a certain amount of criticism about sexism in professional cycling, though current and [b]former podium girls have defended their role as part of the sport's traditions[/b].

I can't see a problem with it. They're not forced into it and compared to what you see on TV on other forms of entertainment it seems very tame.
If you don't like what you see and it offends you then don't watch it go march on the French embassy instead.

And that's why it's bad - women as an incidental adjunct to victory, objects to be won by the fastest and the fittest, willing to symbolically present themselves to whoever the winner happens to be.

So, does this offend you?

[img] [/img]

My view is that, whatever the individual choices of the women involved are, the podium girl is a symbol of the 'spoils of victory' - the laurels, the trophy cup, the jersey, the trophy woman.
And that's why it's bad - women as an incidental adjunct to victory, objects to be won by the fastest and the fittest, willing to symbolically present themselves to whoever the winner happens to be.

Going back 20 years or so in order to become the winner you had to take so many drugs that they died by the dozen of strokes. Even today the riders are suffering far more than the podium girls and therefore you could argue being far more exploited than girls who jus thave to stand around a bit. They competitors are probably wearing more revealing clothes as well.

Or maybe nobody's being exploited - they're all doing a task they're willing to do at the price offered.

😆

Edit: at the pic.

My view is that, whatever the individual choices of the women involved are, the podium girl is a symbol of the 'spoils of victory' - the laurels, the trophy cup, the jersey, the trophy woman.

And that's why it's bad - women as an incidental adjunct to victory, objects to be won by the fastest and the fittest, willing to symbolically present themselves to whoever the winner happens to be.

Does the womens tour have podium girls? I know other womens world tour races have podium girls. How does that fit in with your view of the world?

[i]So, does this offend you?[/i]

I'm not 'offended' by women doing it, I just think it's unnecessary and the symbolism is archaic.

Men always come back with 'but men do it too' with anything where someone says women shouldn't be put in a certain role or position that is exploiting their gender. Men do not have a long history of being given second best, being only valued for their looks. So when you see a male 'podium girl' there isn't the same 'trophiness' associated with them being in that role - it can be laughed off, the tight gold shorts, the obvious genitals positioning - it's not beign done in a pseudo sexual way, it's 'knowing'.

My issues with podium girls have nothing to do with the individuals concerned. I've read a few times over the years that the TdF podium girls tend to be highly educated, and generally very pleased with their lot. It would certainly be patronising to assume that they are somehow forced to do it against their will because they have no other employability (yes that's a word) factors other than their looks.

Up until a few years ago I always thought "well, it's a bit daft, and makes cycling look a bit dumb, but really there are many bigger things to be concerned about in the world than this", but in more recent times (perhaps not unrelated to the fact that I now have a daughter), I've started to notice more the kind of 'passive sexism' of this kind of thing.

On its own, it's not the end of the world, but it is another little subliminal message to the world that men do the important stuff and women just look pretty. I heard someone also point out that there is a kind of symbolism involved whereby it's almost as though the race winners somehow 'win' the (attentions of) the podium girls. We just don't need any of those kinds of messages seeping into the minds of young people. And in womens races!? Just crazy!

Ditching podium girls won't fix the world, but it would be one easy little step in the right direction.

As far as I can see every poster on this thread bar one is a male..

the only lady to yet comment doesn't appear to have an issue with it..which probably tells you all you need to know..

My tuppunce worth..i don't really care either way. I'm assuming however that many girls would love to be have the job and those that do clearly don't see it as exploitation, so I don't really see an issue whatsoever.

Just like the brolly dollys at Moto GP, all a bit 1970's for my liking. Fair enough if they mixed it up with male & female eye candy but they don't as far as I know?

I just think it's unnecessary

Whereas cycling up mountains for weeks on end is necessary...

I'm not 'offended' by women doing it, I just think it's unnecessary and the symbolism is archaic.

This is my view, doesn't bother me in the slightest, I also don't get any gratification from the 'podium girls' but it's all a bit old fashioned and unnecessary.

[i]Or maybe nobody's being exploited - they're all doing a task they're willing to do at the price offered.[/i]

I think society tends to operate at a level beyond 'well they were willing to do X for Y amount of money so it must be ok'?

We collectively have decided that there are lots of activities that it is unacceptable for people to do regardless of their willingness to do it for money. As an off the top of my head example - working hours directive, peopel were 'willing' to work excessive hours and everyone argued 'they coudl chose not to' but if you feel you have limited life choices then 'choice' is something that has less meaning in that context. Equally for podium girls - just because the indviduals doing it are volunteers it doesn't mean that it's ok.

the only lady to yet comment doesn't appear to have an issue with it..which probably tells you all you need to know..

Stats on Singletrack shouldn't be relied upon?!

[i]Whereas cycling up mountains for weeks on end is necessary...[/i]

I think you understand the distinction between participating in a sport and being presented to the winner as some sort of reward for victory. the former is a necessary, the latter to give the middle aged men of the sponsors someone to look at while they wait for the racers to arrive.

I think society tends to operate at a level beyond 'well they were willing to do X for Y amount of money so it must be ok'?

I'm not arguing about 'ok' or not. I'm saying they're not being exploited.

working hours directive

You can opt out of it.

it promotes ......... bad body image

Seriously have you seen a pro cyclist, probably thinner than the podium girls!!

Aren't the rider and podium girls simply billboards for sponsors? In many ways there is little different from the male cyclists and the podium girls, apart from the podium girls have less risk of injury and death.

the latter to give the middle aged men of the sponsors someone to look at while they wait for the racers to arrive.

...and by giving the sponsor something to look at they increase revenue. So actually they're contributing to the bottom line. You just don't regard their job as 'proper' job wheras you do think cycling is a proper job. It's completely subjective.

Had a bit of a google and I think I'll put this up here and then walk away from the debate:

[i]This past Sunday thousands of women joined forces to ride in solidarity for the Rapha Women's 100, many of us followed that watching La Course with equal enthusiasm (and burritos!) Unfortunately, the most powerful images of women and the sport of cycling from this past weekend are going to be of Chris Froome and podium girls. [/i]

[url= http://www.prettydamnedfast.com/blog/2015/7/5/nopodiumgirls ]http://www.prettydamnedfast.com/blog/2015/7/5/nopodiumgirls[/url]

Aren't the rider and podium girls simply billboards for sponsors? In many ways there is little different from the male cyclists and the podium girls, apart from the podium girls have less risk of injury and death.

That's how I'm thinking.

In the bad old days didn't 30 odd riders die of strokes. I doubt any podium girls did. Who was being exploited?

Dickyboy - Member 
Just like the brolly dollys at Moto GP, all a bit 1970's for my liking. Fair enough if they mixed it up with male & female eye candy but they don't as far as I know?

Dani Pedrosa has been using 'Brella Fella's for a while now.
[img] [/img]

I'm not sure whats worse:

[img] [/img]

or

[img] [/img]

😯

.which probably tells you all you need to know..

That a sample of one is not statistically significant....

On its own, it's not the end of the world, but it is another little subliminal message to the world that men do the important stuff and women just look pretty.

This, it's just another message to girls that looks are all that really matters.

being presented to the winner as some sort of reward for victory

Whoah woah, I didn't realise that was what was happening! I think there are already laws against that sort of thing. 😉

We live in a time (and place) where women have absolute social, economic and political agency and are more than capable of using the abundant legal recourse available to them if there is any exploitation or abuse.

All I see here are attempts to deny that attractiveness should be a commodity. Whether it should be or not makes eff all difference. It is. Attractiveness pays and that will never change.

But hey, at least no one is getting exploited or abused eh?

We collectively have decided that there are lots of activities that it is unacceptable for people to do regardless of their willingness to do it for money. As an off the top of my head example - working hours directive, peopel were 'willing' to work excessive hours and everyone argued 'they coudl chose not to' but if you feel you have limited life choices then 'choice' is something that has less meaning in that context. Equally for podium girls - just because the indviduals doing it are volunteers it doesn't mean that it's ok.

Do you honestly think these girls do it out of lack of choice rather than because they want to?

Actually, now i think about it the bigger problem is one of equal opportunities in the workplace. They are saying that you cant have the job if you are a fat munter. I dont work in HR but I believe that is illegal, no?

Ok, its a thing from the past but some may say so what. Why does anything old have to be bad and all things modern have to be better. I can think of many things that are very much the reverse. If the ladies in question are happy to do it then surely no one has the right to say that they cannot. Same as porn.
Its all just marketing surely? I note that no one is objecting to the sponsors logos on the back of the stage. Same thing but these are more effective.
Finally , yet again why do those who are most "concerned" about this sort of thing and object actually have no respect to any one else's views? To use the phrase knuckle dragger is obviously meant to be offensive. Sort of shows a lack of intelligence really. A phrase such as "those people whose entirely legitimate views are different from my own " might be more reflective of the view point that is intended .

For God's sake don't watch a music channel on the TV some of you will explode with rage.

At least the "podium girls" are clothed and not being suggestive in any way. We have had to stop the 8 year old watching some music videos... But this is nothing new.

[img] [/img]

"indviduals doing it are volunteers it doesn't mean that it's ok."
Yes it does! If you have the right to say such a thing they have the right to do what they want. You can't have it only to suit you.
Why don't people get this? 🙄

Dani Pedrosa has been using 'Brella Fella's for a while now.

Good on him 🙂 - I fast forward and just watch the racing so hadn't clocked that

Sagan took a lot of flak for that incident pictured above and has apologised since I believe.

[i] I'm assuming however that many girls would love to be have the job[/i]

Yep, but those mingers just ain't got the body for it eh?

Actually, now i think about it the bigger problem is one of equal opportunities in the workplace. They are saying that you cant have the job if you are a fat munter. I dont work in HR but I believe that is illegal, no?

Actually, there are some jobs where looks / image are 'acceptable' judgement criteria.

I know 😯

"indviduals doing it are volunteers it doesn't mean that it's ok."
Yes it does! If you have the right to say such a thing they have the right to do what they want. You can't have it only to suit you.
Why don't people get this?

So any paid activity is acceptable if you can find someone to volunteer for it?

PP - Imodium girls. Your best yet!!

Well said CG. Seems clear who's in control and who's exploiting/using who....

If everyone involved is doing it willingly, I don't see a problem. I do see a problem though in this current penchant for some people to dictate to others what they should and should not be doing and in some way assume it a righteous cause. It's not.

For God's sake don't watch a music channel on the TV some of you will explode with rage.

At least the "podium girls" are clothed and not being suggestive in any way. We have had to stop the 8 year old watching some music videos... But this is nothing new.

This. Not saying it's right but......Well groomed women in pretty dresses dishing out chaste kisses i'd be cool with my teenage daughter seeing.

Most of the imagery that teenagers get exposed to these days portrays women in a much, much harsher light.

[i]Yes it does! If you have the right to say such a thing they have the right to do what they want. You can't have it only to suit you.
Why don't people get this?[/i]

Ok, I'll bite.

[i]they have the right to do what they want.[/i]

We should carry on using asbestos/whatever in industry because there's bound to be people who will volunteer to work with it despite the known risks?

Or do we say 'actually, this thing you want to do we as a society (or whatever) have decided is inappropriate for anyone to do regardless of their personal willingness to do it'?

If everyone involved is doing it willingly, I don't see a problem.

So any paid activity is acceptable if you can find someone to volunteer for it?

I take a deep breath whenever I see a thread like this, the moment it's shared on Facebook you get the knuckledraggers out posting depressingly offensive comments.

But to echo a point made earlier, the majority of us who've commented on this thread are middle aged males, I'm no exception myself.

They have the right to do it.. and if that troubles you, you have the right not to look.. You do not have the right to tell them what they can or cannot do.

They have the right to do it.. and it it troubles you, you have the right not to look.. You do not have the right to tell them what they can or cannot do.

So any paid activity is acceptable if you can find someone to volunteer for it?