[Closed] Planning - Scrap Metal pickup/storage!

If it's within your boundary, is there anything in the deeds about a right of access (running a business coming and going from it might be different to just being allowed access to a garage) or get general limitations regarding running a business from it?

Otherwise it sounds like it's his parking space and he can park what he likes on it.

Could you find an alternative garage/plot nearby and offer to buy that and do a swap with them?

Might need planning to demolish it but I doubt you can do anything about the van. If he starts storing the scrap on the land then it becomes another matter.

No its his garage and there is access off the rear lane to the garage. The garage though is about 1.5m from my kitchen window and is elevated.

Wouldn’t it be change of use though. Residential garage to business/scrap?

I think the question will hinge on what the van is classed as. Keeping a works vehicle outside your house (or your garage) doesn't make it business premises, but if the business is operated from there it might be different. Where does his scrap metal licence say the business is based?

The scrap metal licence states their home/property address.

Put some blinds up.

Put some blinds up.

Not metal ones though.

Would need 8ft high blinds if sitting in the back garden and some headphones as well to drown out any noise!!

Its its feasible, ask him to leave the back of the garage and one side so that you do not have to look at the van.

Personally I'd be having a word with the council to check what the 'licence' will allow him to do. My folks had something similar in their street a while ago. Started as just the van parked which was fine, then scrap everywhere, then he obviously had a visit from the council and the van disappeared.

Without showing a photo it’s really difficult to show the impact! Think of it as you had a smallish rear garden with a garage in it. Someone then has a bright idea to sell the garage to neighbours across the road. This was in the 1970’s. It’s always been a residential garage since then with no issues.

Someone now wants to pull down the garage to store a scrap collecting van - the garage is too small!

The garage is very close to the rear face of the house, but no big problem as its enclosed and provides a bit of privacy to me as well.

With the garage down it will open the back of the property and the van will be totally visible from the rear of the house and if out in the back garden.

I’ll check in the business use planning and what the scrap licence allows. I would have expected the licence people to contact me if it allowed the use of that piece of land for scrap metal use. As you say it will start off with a van, then locals will be dumping their fridges there, then metal will be broken up and grinded.....But what do I know!

Thanks for the help all.

Sounds like you need a boundary fence or wall when the garage comes down. Is that feasible?

The point to understand about planning is that all decisions are taken on the Council's interpretation of planning law. What's reasonable or not reasonable doesn't come into it unless the planning law says it does, in the specific circumstances. You need to look up the Local Plan and see if there are any relevant policies. I would contact the planning department and ask them, and / or talk to your elected Councillor.

Not if the garage owner had to build it on his land as I don’t think he has the width to build a wall there and park the pickup.

I haven’t the funds to build a 10m ish by 2m high wall.

I’m pretty sure he will need planning for change of use from residential to business though, business address and everything. Should be OK.

I have sent a letter to the local planning department, awaiting a reply.

I’m pretty sure he will need planning for change of use from residential to business though

I wouldn't be so sure. A garage separate to a residence would likely already be classed as a commercial property. As mentioned, there may be restrictions in running a business. I cannot run a motor vehicle based business from mine for example. No idea who would actually enforce that clause though should I want to flout it. Just storing a van and associated crap will not be a proplem although storage of waste may contravene his waste carrier licence

No its not classed as commercial, I have a copy of the covenant when it was sold in 1976. It has always been a residential garage for a car. The garage is also totally within a residential area.

It's quite difficult to work out the issues here. It depends a bit on what the 'planning unit' is in terms of what the use is at present and the relationship to the residential uses. What is the existing use of the plot in question? Normally I would expect a scrap metal use to require express planning permission but it does depend on the planning history of that site. However, separate from planning law, I would expect a scrap metal use to require an Environmental Permit from the Environment Agency so I would be asking that question of the EA as well as the planning question of the Local Planning Authority.

The current plot has a garage on it that is used to keep a car - been like that sine it was built in the 1970s. The area around is all residential, no businesses.

If you drove past it on the back lane youd probably guess it was my garage - which it isn’t!!

Not read in detail all the stuff up there, but has anyone mentioned contact the environmental department of the council rather than the planners? There are stringent rules for scrapyards now to protect against land contamination.

As said above, check what a scrap metal licence allows him to do. I’d be surprised if it allowed him to store the scrap on site.

They'd need a waste carriers license for transporting any wastes which will constrain what they can do regarding storing wastes. But it is unlikely anyone would want to be keeping scrap in an unsecured location as it'll just get nicked.

environmental department of the council rather than the planners? There are stringent rules for scrapyards now to protect against land contamination.

It’s the Environment Agency that deals with that, not the council.
To move/store/sort scrap you’d need a scrap metal dealers licence from the Council, a Waste Carriers Registration from the EA and an appropriate Environmental Permit (or exemption) from the EA which is the hardest to get, would cost £thousands to apply for and if a new Permit you’d probably need to employ the services of a consultant if you weren’t familiar with the process.
You’d also need a certain standard of infrastructure (defined in the Permit) to be able to handle and treat the waste with as little risk to the Environment as possible.
If he’s wanted to pick up and store scrap cars he would almost certainly need an ELV Permit.

I would have thought if he stores any scrap their he will need to register it as a waste transfer station, as stated above there are requirements for these and planning isn't easy

To recap I have written to the planning department and councils licencing department to seek advise.

I don’t know what scrap licence he had just had so we’ll see what they say.

The business has just been registered at the property, so I imagine to use that to use it for business would require planning as its a material change of use from a domestic garage - and would impact me!

I’ll check what tbe EA licence allows for as well.

cheers all.

The EA waste carriers ONLY allows movement from one place to another, it does not authorise storage in ANY way, including if the van picked something up one day, parked in garage overnight then took it to another site the next day. It must travel from the originating site to the destination site only.

If he's just parking his van where the garage was, that's probably within the scope of Residential, so far as planning is concerned. There are some estates where there's a covenant that prevents parking vans, and that wouldn't be necessary if you needed planning permission. If he storing scrap, that's different.

A bigger question is whether he needs planning permission to run a scrap business from his house. Scrap is definitely not residential, it's one of the uses that doesn't get classified, the word is 'sui generis' (=on it's own). See here.

But if the van is part of the business, which is registered at that address, then surely that piece of land is then used for business purpose. With scrap metal on its back then its also not inkeeping with a residential area.

I also think, from my research that he would need a site licence to use the land as part of the scrap metal business, which I don’t know would be issued to a terraced residential property.

I guess he’s only got a collectors licence.

Copied from the councils website! Interesting on their take on collector and site licence.

There are two categories of licence:

A site licence (may be for multiple sites within the council's area)

A "site" is any place occupied for the purposes of the scrap metal dealer's business; a site licence holder may collect scrap metal, but only by prior arrangement

A mobile collector’s licence (separate licences are required for each council area where collections take place)
A mobile collector must not occupy a site for the purposes of their scrap metal business, but may collect scrap metal without prior arrangement

Even if they have a council licence they will still need one from the EA too. A few people new to the business don’t know this (and some who aren’t new don’t care) and get into trouble.

But if the van is part of the business, which is registered at that address, then surely that piece of land is then used for business purpose.

Lots of people park their works vehicle at home overnight and I don't think that makes it a business.

With scrap metal on its back then its also not inkeeping with a residential area.

That's different - I would agree that was business use. When you say "scrap metal on its back" is it a closed van or some kind of open lorry?

Not sure how to quote!! Its a 3.5t open back lorry/pickup type thing full of scrap metal.

So in essence that spot will be the primary storage/parking area for the pickup thats registered for business use from home? Where it is a residential garage at the moment.

I’d assume it has to be registered from somewhere (ie home)

Maybe I’m trying to convince myself!!

Copied from another site. Must remember that the garage is detached/away from their property. They are living over the road. So it isn’t a driveway nor garden as such. Also its not a van as discussed below, but an open back 3.5t pickup.

Anyway I need to stop second guessing as its starting to wind me up, which isn’t good for the stress levels! Will report back when I know more.
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Will you need planning permission? Maybe, local councils are getting tired of receiving complaints about commercial vehicles parked in the gardens and driveways of private houses. To counter this, many are now saying ‘this is going against the enjoyment of the property’. As such they consider it a material change of use and as thus you will need to apply for permission.

Factors taken into account by local council includes
Your van’s position and proximity to adjoining properties
Its effect on the appearance of the local area
The times your van arrives at your property and departs