[Closed] Pistorius

Get out of here, crocodile tears, guilty as charged!! Royd rage maybe or just plain bad attitude!

I thought Reeva was still in bed. yeah right.

The not having a jury is interesting. Normally, celebs seem to get off. OJ Simpson , Steven Gerrard etc etc. Not that he murdered anyone.

He comes across as a twunt

Guy lives in compound with security. Leaves window open.

So hes not that nervous and jittery about crime.

If he opened the window post-four shots what does that say?

What kind of burglar looks in the bathroom next to where people are sleeping?

He did it on purpose IMO but I just can't see how they can prove it beyond reasonable doubt especially given how the first officer on scene has since been found guilty of being as bent as a nine bob note. Should go to prison just for shooting blindly at an unidentified target. Whole different ballgame if it was a manslaughter charge.

Guilty as charged. What convinced me was him saying to the victim's family in court "you're the first people I pray for every morning" which came across as a load of old cobblers.

If I was the judge his histeronics would not being helping his case. I think he's genuinely distressed but i think that just shows how wrapped up in himself he is. He killed someone without justification, the fact it was his girl friend just makes it even less justifiable. He should have waited, blindly shooting through the door was never going to end well.

Wether deliberate or unknowing, he shot and killed someone.
I do think he is genuinely remorseful. But it may just be the fact he is staring at life inside.

Guilty!

I thought maybe one too many hard man fantasies.. intoxicated by guns... Desperate for a burglar to shoot. People hear what they want to hear...

Of course, even he admits he killed someone without justification - what he's trying to say is that he didn't actually intend to kill his girlfriend.

A pretty ****ed up man though. Did anyone do a drug test on his hair etc?

I do think he is genuinely remorseful.

just like that girl on facebook who knocked down the 'bloody cyclist'...

I do think he is genuinely remorseful.

Should be in jail already.

Google the crime scene. Rhe toilet is not behind the door. Its offset to the left.

Genuinely remorseful? You are applying mine and yours normal person logic. Hes facing no freedom. A good looking, celeb faces life in jail.

Not got a leg to stand on.

he said he woke up, went outside onto the balcony, to move a fan, and then heard a noise and told the gf to phone the police. no answer. then went to the bathroom and just unloaded into a door, no warning, nothing. sorry but thats bullshit. Anyone would consult with their partner about if they heard a noise, and what they should do, so if he asked her to call the cops, wouldn't he wait to get an answer? and wouldn't he have seen she wasn't there when he got out of bed, went out, came back in etc etc...

he murdered her, open and shut case IMO.

I dont get this,if I was in bed in an ensuite with a longterm girlfriend,and heard noises from the bathroom,the first thing I'd do is nudge the partner and say "Did you hear that?" If they weren't there,I'd assume they were in the bathroom,so going in gun blazing looks distinctly iffy IMHO

You would know if there was a tidy lady in your bed or not. Well I would.

A spoiled little brat who believes the world revolves around him who had a tantrum and thought he'd teach her a lesson . So full of himself, just look at his reaction to getting well beaten at the London games - if you beat me you must have been cheating and no one's going to take me out of the spotlight. And now like the little boy he really is he can't face up to what he did, probably actually now believes what he's saying in court.

If I wanted to kill someone I wouldn't chance shooting them through a closed door.... Might miss or just wing them? Just saying!

Even by his own story he's an unstable murderous gun nut. I suppose there is some morbid curiosity in whether he could possibly be telling the truth, but it all seems pretty implausible to me.

Maybe he did it in a blind fury?

EDIT: not saying that excuses him at all, but maybe he can't control his anger and now realises the gravity of what he's done.

Should go to prison just for shooting blindly at an unidentified target

Not sure about the prison part but, to me at least, anyone that shoots without knowing what they're shooting at has exposed themselves as, well, not sure really.

Definitely shouldn't own a firearm...

Prosecutor had him in knots today. The line that stood out for me was the prosecutor saying to him after a line of questioning

"So you accidentally shot at the intruders..?" Pistorious got himself to this point btw after he said he had not meant to fire his gun and admitting he was shooting at intruders.

Genius, he's got him.

Do you think he really love her?

😯

Tricky this, you know not being there and all that.

Having listened to all the "evidence" and soundbites that Sky/BBC report I have formed an "informed" opinion. That opinion is this:
Having had a blazing row with her over something quite incidental, he wouldn't let it lie and it erupted into a stinking bost up. His temper go the better of him, she ran for cover into the Loo and he was so enraged that he offloaded a few rounds of bullets, designed to frighten the shit out of her, however she was unfortunately in the way of those bullets.
I get the impression that his modus was to frighten, however knowing bullets can kill he had the motive to at least hurt/threaten and therein lies the rub.
Motive, outcome, manslaughter IMO.
Remorse, yup I think he has buckets of it, can't think what he'll get if found guilty but spending a large proportion of his time in prison isn't what he had in mind, nor trained for. It'll kill him.

The bottom line is he shot blind through a closed door and killed someone.

Jail time, it's just how much time that needs to be decided.

What kind of burglar looks in the bathroom next to where people are sleeping?

Turd burglar?

If I was on the rob, the bathroom would be last place I'd think to search for any valuables.

He put four shots through a closed door with the intention of killing the person behind it.

There was no immediate threat to his own safety (they were hiding behind a closed door, not coming at him with a knife)

It doesn't matter if he killed a burglar on purpose or his girlfriend by accident. He intended to kill someone and a claim self defence isn't very convincing.

I think under English law he would be guilty of murder in both cases.

I suppose South African law is different?

This all started when the Brazilian fella beat him in the paralympics. His head was knackered after that, god knows what he thought he was doing but the bloke is seriously messed up.

No wonder he's wailing on the stand. He's just thinking about being the only young pretty rich white boy in the jailhouse!!!

Assume the position Oscar...

Hopefully he'll meet Shrien Diwani in there too.

My only source is BBC news like others and not heard all the evidence. But I reckon he lost his rag over something and wasted her, perhaps accidentally. I think he is remorseful in the cold light of day, just his temper got the better of him. Don't think it was pre determined murder but might be manslaughter over here. Don't know how SA courts deal with this.

I don't think squeezing of four shots can ever be done "accidentally"

avdave2/bikebouy +1

He has lost his rag/wanted to intimidate a woman in a locked bathroom to a point he has gone and got a gun and let off 4 rounds through a closed door. Not a premeditated murder, but murder none the less.

+1 ads678 He really showed what a bad loser he is at the Olympics. I really went off him after that.

Edit: I don't buy his crocodile tears and court room theatricals either. Guilty of murder in my opinion.

If you were going to fire a gun, you'd make damn sure your loved ones were safe first.
Surely if you had a gun in the house you'd have had a mental run through about what circumstances you'd fire it.
Through a closed door, not knowing where everyone else in the family is first is an absurd defence.

We need to bear in mind that South Africans have a completely different outlook to both guns and burglary than we do. Shooting a burglar is a lot more acceptable there than it would be here.

Regardless of my personal opinion, I haven't heard any evidence so far that convinces me [b]beyond all reasonable doubt[/b] that he knowingly intended to kill his girlfriend.

I haven't heard any evidence so far that convinces me beyond all reasonable doubt that he knowingly intended to kill his girlfriend.

I hear you but do they have the same law/principle in SA?

Marina Hyde has it abought right - http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/mar/14/marina-hyde-oscar-pistorius-vomiting

Anyone else hooked to the Sky news live feed? I find it captivating watching!!

[b]Heres what happened.
[/b]

Blazing row while arguing in bed, RS throws the duvet off them both and runs off to the toilet and locks herself in (why else would she lock the toilet door!) OP is angry at this and shouts at her through the door. She won't open it, OP returns with a cricket bat and smashes it against the door trying to get in, this doesn't work so he returns with his gun and lets off four shots in the direction of the toilet where he knows she's sitting sobbing.

Once the scale of his actions sinks in he carry's her downstairs, creates an intruder story and phones the police.

Guilty to me...there are too many coincidences for his story to be true.

Reports of shouting, her stomach having food in it when he said they were in bed at 10, her phone being in the bathroom when she went to the toilet at 2am etc.

And who the hell lets off 4 shots through a closed bathroom door without knowing who is in there? burglar or not, they cant pose much of a threat in a locked bathroom. Lastly how did he know where in the bathroom to aim to hit her multiple times? A girlfriend would be on the toilet or near the sink, a burglar I guess near the door ready to get out.

[quote=hora ]

I haven't heard any evidence so far that convinces me beyond all reasonable doubt that he knowingly intended to kill his girlfriend.

Well that was hard to find out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_African_criminal_law

The defence does appear to be based on the theory of introducing some reasonable doubt. I reckon he's guilty but will walk.

Is Wiki now accepted as the fact on STW? 😆

turd burgular - bravo sir

He woke up in the night heard intruders, got his gun but didn't check/wake his other half?

Cobblers - to the chair with him

Has to be guilty

Who wakes up at 2am and doesnt notice their Mrs isnt in bed with them, and also who in a proper full on relationship locks the toilet door when they are going for a wee in the middle of the night

Well I suppose it's possible that's totally inaccurate and nobody has ever decided to correct it 🙄

To be honest, sometimes when I wake up at 2am I'm somewhat confused.

Did you hear about the bloke who strangled his wife whilst dreaming? (that's not a joke btw.. horrific case)

I'm coming round to the idea that they had a blazing row, she locked herself in the loo, probably to phone someone - he flipped out - shot her, then immediately realized what he'd done - and worked out the burglar story to cover his arse.

The fact that most affluent white South Africans are gun mad, and paranoid about being burgled just made it easier for him to fabricate a story...

I did, horrible indeed.

I've also urinated down the stairs of my parents house happy in the knowledge that I was at a urinal, on christmas eve, and was discovered by mum. She nearly strangled me.

That's not what he's saying though is it? He was conscious.

I'd go for the flew into a rage theory, crime of passion type thing but he's as guilty as sin.*

*(Internet based shoddy assumption - I'm pretty sure pepole with more access to facts are going to make this decision)

There's a bit of no-man's land between conscious and asleep, tbh. See the numerous stories on here of people whose wives/gfs put them in the doghouse for something they did in a dream.

I can see why he'd try and concoct a story to cover it up, even if he was confused at the time - it sounds like an even lamer excuse.

COme on Molgrips, what have you done?

What have I done? I hit my wife once (very gently) in the chest whilst fast asleep - cannot remember what I was dreaming though!

I find his whole defence very difficult to believe, as does everybody else...this does not mean he won't walk, I think he will.

I think he's genuinely remorseful, but I also think he's turning it on a bit for the court.

Was just ribbing you, not looking for an actual confession.

I think his remorse is pretty genuine, at least for the demise of his own carrer, reputation and celebrity but it doesn't change [/s]the fact[s] my conjecture that he killed her in a rage. If he was all that remorseful about her death he should have have pleaded to guilty to manslaughter (again no idea if such a thing exists in SA and CBA reading the wiki link) He's killed her and flushed his life down the toilet because of his ego, off to the big house.

I think under English law he would be guilty of murder in both cases.

I suppose South African law is different?

Yes. For a start, it's a Roman-Dutch law jurisdiction, hence no jury and addressing everything to the judge. What he's guilty of and the measure to get there is both different from common law generally and from English law specifically.

There's a bit of no-man's land between conscious and asleep, tbh. See the numerous stories on here of people whose wives/gfs put them in the doghouse for something they did in a dream.

Mrs North and I were staying in a not-especially-nice hotel room in San Francisco many years ago. I'd got a bit jittery after we'd walked in the end stages of an armed robbery earlier. Middle of the night and I'm startled by something. A silhouetted figure lunges towards me, and I grab it by the hair and hit it before it dawning on me who it was and what I'd done....

And who the hell lets off 4 shots through a closed bathroom door without knowing who is in there? burglar or not, they cant pose much of a threat in a locked bathroom.

Don't judge it by British standards. My colleague returned to the UK from SA after he decided the violence was too great. After one occasion where people were shooting at his house, his wife was advised by the police to shoot to kill and to make sure there was evidence (ie a hole in the ceiling) where she'd fired a warning shot. They were happy that didn't need to have been before they'd dealt with the intruders. They also offered to leave old knives with her so she could cut her arms to ensure it looked like a personal attack.

It's a country where you have to check your firearm in before you get on a flight, but is otherwise happy for you to be armed as you wander around.

So, we need to see this in context. Gun crime and attacks on the home are high in the minds of many people in SA. I can see why he's arguing it as he is (I have no opinion on his guilt).

Maybe he did it in a blind fury?

EDIT: not saying that excuses him at all, but maybe he can't control his anger and now realises the gravity of what he's done.

This is the nearest to my own belief; as it happens I was in Johannesburg when it happened and as you would expect, it was discussed in every meeting I attended over the next few days. Without exception my customers (mostly white Afrikaaner woman) said it was "'roid rage" and that he was known in local Afrikaaner society as a bit of a gun nut.

Whatever; that woman judge looks to be no fool and I bet she's not taken in by his histrionics. I notice that he looks less chiselled and softer in the face than a year ago - could that just be because he's stopped training and put on weight or he's given up the steroids?

compare

He put four shots through a closed door with the intention of killing the person behind it.

with

"So you accidentally shot at the intruders..?"

he's doing everything he can to avoid admitting responsibility for anything - he's basically saying 'everything was an accident, i didn't even mean to pull the trigger' - which would get him off manslaughter too.

However, he's clearly got an anger management problem and he's also a bit prone to shooting guns (which he tries to avoid admitting responsibility for too) - so he's walking a tightrope of 'not me guv'nor' vs 'hang on, you're prone to this sort of thing'.

So, 'beyond reasonable doubt', given the crime scene has been messed with, means this is going to be a rough ride (and strangely compelling).

Poor Reeva's family - sincerely - what a nightmare.

Mrs North and I were staying in a not-especially-nice hotel room in San Francisco many years ago. I'd got a bit jittery after we'd walked in the end stages of an armed robbery earlier. Middle of the night and I'm startled by something. A silhouetted figure lunges towards me, and I grab it by the hair and hit it before it dawning on me who it was and what I'd done....

Wonder if he's had a Neuro investigate the possibility of a Night Terror or Fontal Lobe/Temporal Lobe dysfunction?

Cruzcampo 's indication is probably the most obvious route the event took, and the simplest , which may well be the truth, sadly only OP knows the truth.

For me his defence is increasingly making him look like Vicky Pollard:

"Did you kill your girlfriend?"

"No, but yeah, but no, but yeah, 'cos you see what happened was there was this whole other thing what happened earlier when reeva and I was down the town with these other boys and shut up you weren't even there or nothing and stop giving me those evils and I've never even fired a gun apart from that one time when I accidentally fired it at my girlfriend 4 times and I was asleep then anyway and it was the intruders what done it... "

Guilty.

In the OP version, during the whole episode Reeva makes no sound, even though she is in the bathroom when he is outside it and he is screaming. Just not probable.

He is also being tried on a secondary count of culpable homicide, where having admitted to killing her, the prosecution only have to prove negligence. Punishable by minimum of 6 years in prison.

He's going to prison.

sadly only OP knows the truth.

You're saying Molgrips did it?

His voice is starting to grate me now.

His voice is starting to grate me now.

Some of his posts irritate me as well... We are talking about Molly arent we.

I like the addition of "Mi Lady" after every sentance that comes out of his mouth.

Nice touch.

Shows respect that.

Don't pick on Molgrips,he often awakes confused.

[i]I like the addition of "Mi Lady" after every sentance that comes out of his mouth.

Nice touch.

Shows respect that
[/i]

But is he wearing a tie?

[quote=bikebouy said]I like the addition of "Mi Lady" after every sentance that comes out of his mouth.
Nice touch.
Shows respect that.

[img] [/img]

They played a soundbite of an exchange between Pistorius and Nel on t'radio yesterday, and he came [i]that[/i] close to saying he had been briefed to say he pulled the trigger accidently. He's as guilty as a puppy sitting next to a pile of poo.

[quote=Fantombiker ]He is also being tried on a secondary count of culpable homicide, where having admitted to killing her, the prosecution only have to prove negligence. Punishable by minimum of 6 years in prison.
He's going to prison.

Did he plead not guilty to that? 😯 If so it might explain the course of the defence, but it would appear to be a big, big mistake.

Thought I heard some reporter say even if he got cleared on these charges he would stll end up being tried for murder, which confused me.

I like the addition of "Mi Lady" after every sentance that comes out of his mouth.

Nice touch.

Shows respect that.

Prosecutor asks the question, defendant replies to the Judge instead.

Is that normal? It'd wind me up. I'd say listen you loathsome little shitehawk I'm the one speaking to you- answer to me.

catvet - Member
Cruzcampo 's indication is probably the most obvious route the event took, and the simplest , which may well be the truth, sadly only OP knows the truth.

Why thankyou catvet 😀 The way they adjourned todays hearing early will leave OP on a knifeedge all weekend, stress levels on Mondays reopening are going to be through the ceiling.

hora - member
Prosecutor asks the question, defendant replies to the Judge instead.

Is that normal? It'd wind me up. I'd say listen you loathsome little shitehawk I'm the one speaking to you- answer to me.

I guess as there is no jury, and its the judge who decides the outcome everything is directed at her. The mi lady bit does tickle me!

The mi lady bit does tickle me!

Indeed, a high profile white, (by all accounts) arrogant afrikaner male being super deferential to a black female judge is rather satisfying to hear!

He's a creep.

Your in bed, you hear something that wakes you up, next thing "everyone" does is roll over and shake the person next to them " wake up did you hear that?"

Unless you know the girl isn't in bed, obvs

and also who in a proper full on relationship locks the toilet door when they are going for a wee in the middle of the night

Not me, but our bedroom sink is not behind a door, so this might not be entirely representative.

What emsz said. So you think you hear a burglar (he claims he heard the bathroom window open) Me - I would locate anybody else in the house first, and the cat, and probably make sure my bikes are safe.

Not pull a gun.

And why would a burglar lock themselves in the toilet ?? Nerves ??

None of it seems in any way likely.

I can't listen to it on radio 4 driving home anymore, too much shouting at the radio, which is even more pointless than shouting at the TV.