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I remain mystified by the ‘contractor’/’trades’ that need a 4×4 pickup in the UK. Where are you working that isn’t accessible by road?
I work for a civils firm mainly doing the infrastructure works for housing developers.
We have quite a few of the pick-ups here at work - vehicle of choice for our contract managers and site engineers. Probably 90% of the time spend on normal roads but for the other 10%, if you've ever driven about on sites in the north of England during winter you'd understand what a great tool they are.
Reminds me when a fireman pal was complaining that he was going to be taxed on his 'company' car.
No sympathy from this ex-company car user whatsoever - he'd basically had access & use to a free vehicle for years, used it for commuting, shopping etc etc.
Middle son has a double cab pickup, use to have a hybrid 5 series but needed more capacity for his work gear (on-call industrial electrician) and moving back to a hybrid (Volvo estate) next year.
The whole problem with company cars/vans etc is that there's no way of having a system that's fair to everyone, including taxpayers as a whole - so blanket solutions are implemented. This has occurred for pretty much ever.
I remain mystified by the ‘contractor’/’trades’ that need a 4×4 pickup in the UK.
Need has nothing to do with it. They’re peacocks’ feathers.
Yeah, whatever
We have quite a few of the pick-ups here at work – vehicle of choice for our contract managers and site engineers. Probably 90% of the time spend on normal roads but for the other 10%, if you’ve ever driven about on sites in the north of England during winter you’d understand what a great tool they are.
I wouldn't dispute that there's a use case for a 4x4.
The point is that if it's "just" a 4x4, then it's a crap* but tax effective "car", not a "commercial vehicle". And the BIK is being updated to reflect that fact.
e.g. Mr Photocopier salesman drives to a client sites in his Mondeo 5 days a week, then goes to BPW at the weekend. He pays BIK based on the Mondeos value and emissions to reflect the fact that even if it effectively costs the company very little to do, he's receiving a "benefit in kind" of a new-ish car for his personal use, which is quite a big benefit if you like a new-ish car.
Mr JCB salesman drives to a client sites in his Pickup 5 days a week, then goes to BPW at the weekend. He pays currently pays £60 tax on the BIK because it was generally understood that pickups and vans were s**t, so most sensible people didn't see driving round in a 2000's Ford Ranger as any sort of "Benefit".
Now that a Ford Ranger is a £60k car with leather seats, air conditioning, 21" alloys and you can even spec a spoiler FFS. It's quite clearly a car at the weekend and the BIK is being changed to reflect this.
The manufacturers and fleet buyers know this because the two seater ones that you can't put the wife and kids in and use as a car are:
generally very spartan spec wise – personal use or not, if I’m travelling 30k miles a year for work, I want it to be a nice place to sit
*fuel inefficient, poor visibility, live axle suspended, ladder chassised, etc etc.
the ones I see in the southeast/London have clearly never got the wheels dirty – theres a scaffolding liveried one a couple of streets away, a few gardeners, an electrician and a surprising number of personal trainers.
Thats why you see so few in the south east compared to parts of the country where they're actually needed I guess. I live probably 2 miles from where I am sat. If I pass less than half a dozen on my way home I would be surprised. If more than 2 don't look like they've done a days graft today I will be even more surprised again.
Its not like anyone working for the government ever used a crew cab pickup for actual work though, obviously.
https://www.4x4at.com/blog/environment-agency-chooses-protop/
Its not like anyone working for the government ever used a crew cab pickup for actual work though, obviously.
Exactly, and I'd be surprised if the driver of that pickup pays any BIK?
Can you imagine if a Paramedic was asked to pay BIK on a £250,000* Mercedes Ambulance, it'd be more than their paycheck.
*yea, it amazed me too, apparently the "van" style ones are nearer £150-£180k, but you can swap the box off the back of the coach built ones onto a new chassis so they're cost effective in the longer term as long as you don't wreck them.
I remain mystified by the ‘contractor’/’trades’ that need a 4×4 pickup in the UK. Where are you working that isn’t accessible by road?
Plenty of remote sites like Mobile phone masts to get to. I’ve borrowed a 4WD commercial before now after not making it to site, in the two wheel drive Caddy I had at the time. Some contractors have to offer 24 hour cover to remote sites, so need 4 Wheel drives.
I live in the South east but as a contractor cover the UK, so yes I may find myself in remote places.
One comedy moment we nearly slid down a Welsh cliffside and had to get dragged out by a farmer. We were in a two wheel drive Transporter, got on site ok, weather closed in and a few inches of snow was enough to get us stuck.
If your using the pick up during the day as a work vehicle then its a proper work vehicle.
I used to park my pick up at work because it was always fully loaded with heavy stuff in the back, not ideal for commuting with.
The rear seat area was more secure and had the tools more valued stuff and could carry a spare person(s) around site if needed.
Cab for the apprentice/my assistant and was also my office for drawings do calculations and also tea break / lunch spot including shelter when the heavens opened esp in early stages of a job before the portacabins arrived and up and running.
Was not ideal for a commuter as not efficient and mud fest inside ,but did do on occasions.
A proper work vehicle.
4x4 was so useful on some construction projects, getting across them and too them and even the more mild ones ,I could park safely on a verge and keep the road clear.
Jobs include motorways,road works, new build railways etc
The chapter 8 signs were handy for safely putting out signs on bike events occasionally as well !
It's was a tool for the job.
Thats why you see so few in the south east compared to parts of the country where they’re actually needed I guess.
I love how this had become a north Vs South thing somehow, it's as if the government isn't driving the spectacularly ill thought out policy of building hundred of thousands of new homes on the Thames Valley, which is swamp most of the year and thus crawling with Bovis Homes liveried L200's.
It's the South of England, not the South of France 😂
I remain mystified by the ‘contractor’/’trades’ that need a 4×4 pickup in the UK.
I Killed lots of estate cars and vans with the weight of our site gear, the fact I can shove nearly a 1000kg of kit in plus trailer and a work crew and get to a muddy site is a bit of win really.
daft thing is I'm going back to big PHEV suv for day to day stuff as a company vehicle and will still have to hire 4x4 pickups for projects so that 2 vehicles on the road, where 1 was used previously, extra cost to the clients and a pain in the ass all round, but hey I'm sure I could manage with a cargo bike, using public transport and VW up 🙂
I love how this had become a north Vs South thing somehow
Yep we’ve had to drag another company’s Transit Connect out after it got stuck on site at a Solar battery installation. Very firmly in a flat bit of the country.
And I've had to dig out 4*4s driven onto sites by people with no training or aptitude and wholely unsuitable tires.
A van on all terrain tires would have been better than the nonsense that half these "4*4"s" cruise around on.
We do see a lot of berlingo treks on sites round here now.
A van on all terrain tires would have been better than the nonsense that half these “4*4″s” cruise around on
Yeah makes sense, I’m in about a small a van as possible for what I need, (LWB Connect) because we do a lot of London work, even a Custom is annoyingly big. I don’t imagine it’s a lot of fun parking a double cab Ranger in central London, or anywhere a bit busy.
I don’t get the aspiration to a lifestyle Van or pickup. Personally I’d rather not be in one.
The lads used to get there 2wd vans in some amazing places off road, if it was a lease or company van it would not be particularly well looked after!
@jamesoz, New one parks itself. Very, very rarely have an issue. Been driving a Ranger for work since 2k.
Its not like anyone working for the government ever used a crew cab pickup for actual work though, obviously.
I don't know the EA rules on vehicle use but i'd be amazed if their staff are permitted to use them for SDP use. Anyone affected will have that choice too. Grumbling that you could have a nicer car for the same BIK, misses the point that if you are in a decision making position you can do exactly that, and if you are not then you are no worse off than ordinary employees who don't get the luxury of having company funded personal wheels of any shape.
I said earlier in the thread - watch prices sky rocket until July.
Just browsing a few particular new Ford Rangers I was looking at on Autotrader and they have gone up £2-4k this week
I can remember when the rules changed back in the day to make these type of vehicle favourable for business purposes. They went from being unpopular to very popular over night.
My mate was a car sales man at the time and they even opened a whole new dealership just to sell them as they knew the tax dodge would make them popular.
Around our way farmers drive very knackered versions of these cars - but I have never seen a farmer in a new one. The new ones all appear to be driven by younger sole trader type men who have clearly use it more for family and 'lifestyle' duties than a need for work. They also tend to be driven quite aggressively too.
New tax has been scrapped / postponed already - https://www.gov.uk/government/news/update-on-hmrc-double-cab-pick-up-guidance.
I did write to my MP about it but I doubt that was a contributing factor!
New tax has been scrapped / postponed already
Blimey, that was a quick U-turn , have I missed something and Kier Starmer is in charge ?? 😉
I imagine it went along the lines of taxing trade users of crew cab vehicles more heavily will upset the 5 people who might vote Conservative, or it was pointed out that fewer seats in the commercial vehicle means potentially more vehicles driving to site. See plenty of crew cab vans that are full of workers, more so than pickups if I’m honest.
See plenty of crew cab vans that are full of workers, more so than pickups if I’m honest.
100% this. Try stuffing 5 hairy arsed , sweaty blokes into a pickup . 4 is doable, 5 is uncomfortable for anything longer than 10 minutes. Despite their size, they are pretty small in the back.
I can hear the PT's collectively grunting in relief from here .
I imagine it went along the lines of taxing trade users of crew cab vehicles more heavily will upset the 5 people who might vote Conservative
^^ this
Think about the typical thick-necked angry cyclist-hating possessive tax-avoiding aggressive ill-educated racist tailgating backwards Brexity person who is typically behind the wheel of one of these things and you've got your typical 2023 Tory target voter.
There's certainly a lot of people (including on this thread) who need these.
But it's also undeniable that there's a lot who don't yet are perversely incentivised by the tax rules to have them as company cars. What do we do about this?
But it’s also undeniable that there’s a lot who don’t yet are perversely incentivised by the tax rules to have them as company cars. What do we do about this?
The proposed rules were perfectly fine. If you just use it as a work tool then there's no BIK, and that would include taking staff to sites.
SL2000 - why does anything need to be done about it, why is it a problem?
Plenty will be driving around in fully loaded VW Transporters with a row of seats, the closest they get to commercial use is carrying bikes to the carpark at the weekend, shall we do something about this too?
I don't get the advantages of such tax savings myself but don't really care that others do, the environmental or similar issue is a completely different discussion entirely.
I don't even see how this would have increased HMRC take overall as it would lead to a huge reduction in pickup sales and ultimately less / none being used in this manner, so either way no additional tax.
But it’s also undeniable that there’s a lot who don’t yet are perversely incentivised by the tax rules to have them as company cars. What do we do about this?
Just insist that they have company sign writing on the sides and back taking up a minimum area.
Plenty will be driving around in fully loaded VW Transporters with a row of seats, the closest they get to commercial use is carrying bikes to the carpark at the weekend, shall we do something about this too?
Yes, if you're going to put a £40k vehicle through the books to make it cheap on a BIK basis, it should pay the same BIK as a £40k car.
the environmental or similar issue is a completely different discussion entirely.
Which would be solved by this. Currently as evidenced in this thread you can get a pickup for less BIK than a car, and then begrudge that the only thing cheaper to run is your managers Tesla. It's an incentive to spend your car allowance on a ridiculous vehicle.
I don’t even see how this would have increased HMRC take overall as it would lead to a huge reduction in pickup sales and ultimately less / none being used in this manner, so either way no additional tax.
Even if it didn't, the 2nd point would be achieved.
The issue is that 25 years ago a pickup (or a van) was awful, no on in their right mind drove a Transit or a Ranger as their preferred choice and only ageing hippies drove T25's. So charging BIK at the value of the vehicle was pointless, the average employee got less benefit from having it than they would a much cheaper car. So a flat rate was devised to reflect this where HMRC decided the "benefit" of a commercial vehicle was (IIRC) £6k/year not the £40k it cost to buy.
These days you can easily spec a pickup (or a T6) to cost considerably more than A Range Rover Evoque, and if it's a "company car" you only pay £60 tax each month on it. Whereas an Evoque is ~£260.
None of this affects people owning them privately (having paid income tax already), or using them purely for work (not a benefit). It's just 'income tax' on a part of your remuneration package that isn't cash. In the same way I pay income tax on my employers health insurance. They declare it was worth £700/year, and I pay ~20% of that as income tax.
The issue is that 25 years ago a pickup (or a van) was awful, no on in their right mind drove a Transit or a Ranger as their preferred choice and only ageing hippies drove T25’s. So charging BIK at the value of the vehicle was pointless, the average employee got less benefit from having it than they would a much cheaper car. So a flat rate was devised to reflect this where HMRC decided the “benefit” of a commercial vehicle was (IIRC) £6k/year not the £40k it cost to buy.
These days you can easily spec a pickup (or a T6) to cost considerably more than A Range Rover Evoque, and if it’s a “company car” you only pay £60 tax each month on it. Whereas an Evoque is ~£260.
Newsflash! Commercials are still crap compared to cars. Yes you can spec a van to the hilt, my works Connect was more than a car too. I still don’t want to be in it. Same goes for a posh Custom or T6.
I’d rather drive our 20 year old Astra and do.
If you don’t want to Pay BIK you have to store the thing and your own car if you need a car.
Sure you could leave it at the depot/yard/office and possibly travel further to pick up the vehicle than you would to the job.
Out of interest, what’s the V5C class for a Ford Ranger Wildtrak or similar? Surely if it’s a commercial vehicle, then that’s what the V5 should say, and then van speed limits apply?
It’s also interesting how people know that all these vans/pickups at trail centres are on the company. Most people I know with flashy crew cabs are privately owned.
https://www.carbuyer.co.uk/tips-and-advice/165065/double-cab-pickup-tax-benefits-explained has the BiK for a WildTrak with what would have changed...
As an example, let’s look at a new Ford Ranger WildTrak with a 3.0-litre diesel engine and a P11D value of £54,759. Under the old system, the BiK value of the Ranger would be the flat £3,960, and result in a yearly tax bill of £792 for 20% taxpayers and £1,584 for 40% taxpayers.
Applying the new system, the Ford Ranger’s P11D value is multiplied by its BiK rate. With CO2 emissions of 264g/km, the Ranger falls into the highest BiK rate bracket, at 37%. Multiplied by £54,759, we’re left with a BiK value of £20,261. This is then taxed according to your tax bracket, resulting in a yearly tax bill of £4,052 for 20% taxpayers and £8,104 for 40% taxpayers.
Out of interest, what’s the V5C class for a Ford Ranger Wildtrak or similar? Surely if it’s a commercial vehicle, then that’s what the V5 should say, and then van speed limits apply?
The Wildtak dualcab definitely has the lower van speed limits
I wonder how many people driving them as cars know that?
Taking into account purely the savings in tax - those that feel this is a problem that needs to be solved seem to have this opinion purely because they can’t / don’t want to access the ‘benefit’ themselves - I can’t / don’t so why should they.
I couldn’t care less if someone drives a pickup or van to save personal BIK, the vehicle still gets bought and put into the market, so lots of jobs for people involved in the process and tax to pay on the sale and if not electric cars currently have almost the same BIK avoidance, so I really don’t see the issue.
As above too, they may be big / flashy but they are shite to drive.
@crankrider It really isn’t that - my issue with them is that they’re environmentally worse than equivalent cars, take up vast amounts of space, and are demonstrably more dangerous for vulnerable road users.
Fine if anyone genuinely needs one for work…
On a 40 mile trip round the M25 the other morning, I bothered to count pickups. There were 6 on my journey, 3 of them were very definitely hard working vehicles. There were also absolutely loads of SUVS.
ratherbeintobago - Do you share the same opinion about all of the pimped out 'day vans', Transporters etc too? - They will be a similar weight and size and only marginally better on fuel as they run similar 2.0 diesel engines in current models.
I agree the size of them is ridiculous as is the weight but lets be realistic, the gap between a modern pickup and the modern SUV that is on the drive of the majority of young families in terms of emissions will be minimal.
If we really want to be 'fair' and offer the best environment for other road users & pedestrians then cars should be limited in terms of size and weight and lets take on your suggestion that Vans and pickups should be reserved for work use only and entirely, but I am really not sure how that makes them less dangerous, they are still there, would it just be the slightly fewer number?
I wonder how many people driving them as cars know that?
Have you seen the speed people drive vans on dual carriageways ?
A lot are unaware / ignorant of the lower speed limits.
@crankrider Yes I have a problem with all big cars (and cars in general to be fair).
The issue here is that company car tax should be designed to incentivise using a smaller / more efficient car. However there's a loophole that sees luxury pick ups taxed at a lower rate designed to apply to utilitarian vans and trucks.
So you pay less tax on a £55000 ford ranger than a £20000 VW polo. That needs to be fixed.
@crankrider There’s a certain amount of (granted, US) evidence that pickups being used as car substitutes has led to a design trend of higher, more aggressive fronts, which are less safe from both a visibility and collision POV.
Difference with vans is that they generally aren’t, as they’re mostly bought as work vehicles, pumped out kombis aside.
If people aren’t buying pickups as essentially fashion items…
@ratherbeintobago - Surely the front of the average van is as high and 'aggressive' as a pickup is it not? -
And while I agree most vans are bought for work purposes there are many more on the road than pickups and there is an absolutely huge number of vans being used for daily travel and 'extreme dad' activities, I would imagine far more vans on the road are being used for this purpose but they don't get the heat as they are a big part of the mtb / outdoor scene.
Go to any trail carpark and its absolutely full of vans, not pickups - Stop one then surely stop the other, nobody should be able to have a BIK reduced van either?
@sl2000 - Yes, I am well aware of the reduction in BIK that you class as a 'loophole' - I just don't agree that its a matter that needs fixing in any way, as I say they will all be electric in a few years time and they are actually on average narrower than a modern SUV which as I mentioned before is on the drive of every middle class young family.
It’s also interesting how people know that all these vans/pickups at trail centres are on the company. Most people I know with flashy crew cabs are privately owned.
Which is irrelevant to this thread, they've paid their income tax and until the country has a sensible discussion over what "car" ownership has morphed into then it's a democracy and there's nothing (other than weight limits on some more interesting to get to places) to stop them.
hose that feel this is a problem that needs to be solved seem to have this opinion purely because they can’t / don’t want to access the ‘benefit’ themselves – I can’t / don’t so why should they.
So why should anyone pay any tax?
Should we just tear up the P11d and give everyone a company credit card, as long as you've not been paid any money it's not taxable right?
@thisisnotaspoon - They are paying tax, its just a fixed rate because its a commercial vehicle. This isn't the same as using a company credit card to buy yourself something, the company pays for the vehicle, the driver doesn't own it they just get use of it.
It would be interesting to know how many on here and in the 'EV' thread are using them as company cars and paying almost zero BIK - do you feel the same way about electric vehicles, how about Transporters or similar? Surely you must?
Which is irrelevant to this thread
And yet:-
I’ve yet to see an SSE Hilux parked up at Swinley with a Dakine tailgate protector. But you do see a lot of Ford Rangers which have clearly never seen a days work in their pampered life
do you feel the same way about electric vehicles
The point of EV BIK rules was to encourage people to switch. There’s a massive CO2/mile difference between eg. a Tesla 3 (picking a zero rated EV at random) and a Ranger Wildtrak, so no, I don’t.
Do I feel there’s any need for people to be driving round a town in a colossal i7? Also no, but that’s a different question to the one here about closing a tax loophole which encourages less safe and more polluting commercial vehicles to be used as cars.
Surely the front of the average van is as high and ‘aggressive’ as a pickup is it not?
Without getting the tape measure out, there’s a much steeper slope on the shorter bonnet of that Transit, so for sight-lines at least it’s better than a tall, long and flat bonnet.
@ratherbeintobago - Ah so a 'tax loophole' is acceptable if it fits your personal criteria then, got it.
The road tax is absolutely huge on a vehicle like the Ranger btw, and it remains to be seen what the overall vehicle C02/mile will actually be with all things considered, less than a Tesla 3, probably - less than a 2.5T electric Mercedes SUV, you tell me?
How will you feel about electric pickup's then and what about the Transporters?
And no, I am not a climate denying idiot - I have just received my first EV, solar install this year at home, I just smell hypocrisy here.
Ah come on, many vans have entirely flat fronts, our works Trafic is like a slab.
I don’t have an EV, or a company car. So far as I know, the EV BIK rules are temporary to encourage uptake of less polluting vehicles. Not sure why that’s a problem? The specific issue here is BIK rules on DC pickups encouraging the opposite.
I don’t think the CO2 per mile of any EV is going to be more than a DC 4x4 pickup but happy to be corrected if anyone has numbers?
@ratherbeintobago - The BIK for EV's will only be 3% still in 2025-2026 and was zero up until a year or so ago, so your company car owner / director could happily employ the 'loophole' to obtain a luxury 2T EV SUV and drive it paying zero BIK (so less than the fixed commercial BIK paid on a pickup truck)
Do you really think a 2T luxury SUV that utterly guzzles electricity and used a phenomenal amount of resources in its production will really gave a considerably less CO2/mile than a 'normal' petrol car? I doubt it.
I am sure the BIK for EV's will rise, but as its only company car owners that are using them in reality it's not coming soon.
So again ill ask - how will you feel when pickups become electric? and how do you feel about the commercial vans all of us bikers drive around in daily, or are you one of the van drivers?
the commercial vans all of us bikers drive around in daily
I thought we all had Octavia estates?
I’ll be happier when pickups are electric, certainly.
do you feel the same way about electric vehicles, how about Transporters or similar? Surely you must?
I know you think you're trying to be clever with that straw man.
But yes.
**** em.
The worlds going to hell in a handcart, politicians are fiddling while it burns and people are pouring petrol on the flames whilst saying "but what can I do"? Cities have become a nightmare due to traffic. And country roads are off limits when even people on this cycling forum say they won't ride a road bike anymore.
So yes, they're the problem, those people who have a Raptor or a T6 with a Dubbfest sticker on the tailgate as a replacement for a personality.
And if one small step towards correcting that is to stop subsidizing commercial vehicles, then I'm all for it.
@thisisnotaspoon - Very emotive, unfortunately though probably true - And yes, we are all the baddies, and the bike scene is full of hypocritical bullshit, this discussion a huge example of people splitting hairs.
And I also agree - either remove the BIK 'loophole' for all commercial, vans included or none, but lets also remove the loophole for luxury EV's while we are at it too?
@ratherbeintobago - you do drive a van, dont you?
Nope
Maybe the tax on posh commercials would need to be claimed back with proof of actual use. Would create a few extra jobs.
Whilst we’re on tax loopholes, that others take advantage of. How about folks pay back the tax they’ve saved buying bikes to not cycle to work ever, on the cycle to work schemes.
I’ve said it before most workers who drive Commercials have little choice on the vehicle, many have to take them home.
With limited parking being common as less well off workers won’t have massive driveways or a drive at all they may have to get rid of their own vehicle.
It’s also fairly common that you can’t pop to France in the work van for example, despite paying tax for SDP.
Clearly some do take the piss, there will always be outliers.
I’d love an almost free Tesla.
How about folks pay back the tax they’ve saved buying bikes to not cycle to work ever, on the cycle to work schemes.
Ooh, I reckon you'll have snagged a few hypocrites with that one
But, but, but - it's only about the environment, not the tax money, blah, blah
Whilst we’re on tax loopholes, that others take advantage of. How about folks pay back the tax they’ve saved buying bikes to not cycle to work ever, on the cycle to work schemes.
I don't have one of those either*.
Blimey, this building straw men and whataboutery is harder than it looks isn't it?
Still, a £300 tax saving on a Carrera Subway is the real issue isn't it?
A new Oxford University collaboration has shed light on the damaging health consequences of Britain’s car addiction – revealing that it is likely costing our NHS and society in general more than £6 billion per year.
*partially because we're on the Halfords scheme and it's shit, mostly because I already have decent commuter bikes. We do have a stupidly generous scheme where you can get cars on salary sacrifice though, but I don't use that on principal.
it remains to be seen what the overall vehicle C02/mile will actually be with all things considered, less than a Tesla 3, probably
[citation needed]
Stop making stuff up.
I don’t have one of those either*.
Blimey, this building straw men and whataboutery is harder than it looks isn’t it?
Still, a £300 tax saving on a Carrera Subway is the real issue isn’t it?
No, it’s a few taking advantage of a tax loophole. Mostly self employed trades as far as I’ve noticed. (As far as pickup BIK goes)
Most companies won’t entertain massive thirsty vehicles unless they are needed for the job.
Cycle to work I couldn’t care less about
Frankly if a work van became anymore of burden I’d find an office job within cycle/bus/pogostick commute distance. It’s really not the Perk office folks think it is.
It’s an arse ache, just had to do a huge diversion around the Rotherhithe Tunnel as vans aren’t allowed.
I work for a civils firm mainly doing the infrastructure works for housing developers.
We have quite a few of the pick-ups here at work – vehicle of choice for our contract managers and site engineers. Probably 90% of the time spend on normal roads but for the other 10%, if you’ve ever driven about on sites in the north of England during winter you’d understand what a great tool they are.
I’m not clear that they are either carrying the goods or passengers that necessities a pick up. “Contract manager”?
insusting in company branding for anything commercial would probably solve a chunk of the issue. I can’t find the post but someone said about a gardener wanting separation from their petrol tools. Again, why the crew cab and wouldn’t a van with a bulkhead have more usable, secure, dry load space and much easier (lower) loading?
Again, why the crew cab and wouldn’t a van with a bulkhead have more usable, secure, dry load space and much easier (lower) loading?
As someone who has been a gardener with the set up you describe.
why you think that's the solution to the problem of petrol tools inside a vehicle.
A bulkhead is not airtight.
Traveling in a vehicle even with a bulkhead with petrol tools is nausea inducing.
So I support that.
People using their company vehicles for personal business without being taxed. Less so.
@trailrat thanks - polite, rational and a real reason. Though a 2nd pickup without the ground clearance - something that no longer seems to exist - would probably still be better than some ridiculous jacked up thing.
I still don’t get the hate for company commercials that are ‘posh’? Also the assumption that tax is being avoided?
I get the hate for unnecessary pickups and agree.
The T6 thing I find odd.
Are trades not allowed nice vans, must it be covered in dents and poverty spec or you pay more tax?
Maybe if you work in a nice office, you should pay more tax, especially if it’s air conditioned or, you have access to showers, toilets and a microwave.
Do you really think a 2T luxury SUV that utterly guzzles electricity and used a phenomenal amount of resources in its production will really gave a considerably less CO2/mile than a ‘normal’ petrol car? I doubt it.
Why not look it up? It's been discussed a lot. Many studies have been done.
"People using their company vehicles for personal business without being taxed. Less so."
WE
DO
PAY
TAX!
Just not as much for a work van as a posh company motor.
Why does it bother you so much though that someone other than you must pay even MORE tax because they get a perk? I thought this was just a green issue? 🤷
Just not as much for a work van as a posh company motor.
As you are the op I thought you would understand this is about pick up trucks reclassification but hey ho.
either way. If your using the company vehicle(pick up , van , car, ,pogo stuck) for Personal use. Should be full bik for the vehicle emissions in the same way it is for those of us with non posh company motors as it has become a perk at that point.
But you'll be ok- your accountant will sort that out so you do no milage for personal im sure.
"As you are the op I thought you would understand this is about pick up trucks reclassification but hey ho."
Erm, no, I'm not
I understand what it's about and even though it's now a moot point, as it's not happening, I still have an opinion on the tax classification
"But you’ll be ok- your accountant will sort that out so you do no milage for personal im sure."
If I have a work vehicle for personal use, it gets declared, along with fuel benefits. If at any time I have a separate car for personal use, I don't write down my truck as a benefit. Would you like to see my tax returns?
But you’ll be ok- your accountant will sort that out so you do no milage for personal im sure
I’ll have to remember next time I’m out in a company van people assume I’m a tax dodger.
I must speak to my accountant, right after a chat with my butler.
It’s easy to tell private use, most companies fit trackers, they can then charge for fuel too.
In the old days we’d just write it all down.
Used to work out mpg without ladders fitted and unloaded, which I suppose was ‘tax dodging’.
As for self employed, best of luck to them after the help they didn’t get during lockdown.
With the new rules being implemented again from April and my Disco Commercial not getting any younger I've bitten the bullet.
A van is not much use on solar farms, so it was either a pick-up or a Defender Commercial. The fact that the spec I want is £73k + vat and the dealer didn't even get back to me about my enquiry has led me to this. The only worry is that it may now be much harder to move on in 2-3 years when I want to change it
The slim benefits available to the self employed are becoming ever thinner on the ground while the negatives are ever present.
I suppose it will ultimately mean bigger bills for those receiving work from said trades-people.
Remember next time you are ill receiving sick pay, on holiday for more than a month a year fully paid or receiving maternity pay the self employed person isn't getting a penny from anywhere other than savings, but yea, all dirty 'tax dodgers'.
Nice ranger btw STR - would love one but unfortunately the rules will have changed before we need something new.
Remember next time you are ill receiving sick pay, on holiday for more than a month a year fully paid or receiving maternity pay the self employed person isn't getting a penny from anywhere other than savings, but yea, all dirty 'tax dodgers'.
Ermmmmmm...
Contractor rates are set by the contractor (and market forces), they'll set their rate to reflect that it needs to cover a few weeks off each year, save a bit to cover illness, etc.
Assuming they pay any tax and NI at all as an employee of their company they they'll get the same SSP, SMP etc as anyone else. If their "company" want's to be more generous than that then that's up to them. Just like staff can choose between companies that offer better pay or better benefits.
It's not the governments job to subsidize the self employed. They're just going to put some work in to making sure a (for example) self employed electrician is paying roughly the same rate of tax as one employed by a company. And from this year onward that will include the tax the staff electrician would have paid on their personal "car.".
'Contractor rates' - the self employed world isn't exclusively the contractor class 'employed by their company' in some strange form of indirect employment you know, the way you talk about it being a self employed persons 'choice' to deliver themselves better benefits in the same way an employed person can choose their employer is absolutely hilarious.
Have you ever 'set your rates' to cover sickness etc personally? - ever tried doing that say a year into self employment, after investing in order to be able to fulfill said trade, when you are struggling to break even and maybe you get ill for a week or two and can't work, unlikely.
I think we may have different ideas about the lives of the self employed, probably because one us has real world experience, and the other doesn't.
Have you ever 'set your rates' to cover sickness etc personally? - ever tried doing that say a year into self employment, after investing in order to be able to fulfill said trade, when you are struggling to break even and maybe you get ill for a week or two and can't work, unlikely.
At this point, it sounds like the business is failing, which sucks. Not sure how a tax free pickup truck is going to rescue it tho
At this point, it sounds like the business is failing, which sucks.
Tell me you know nothing about being self employed, without telling me you know nothing about being self employed. Either that, or you just didn't understand the previous post. Same thing I suppose.
I've been fortunate that my self employment journey has needed little investment from the outset - what was needed to initially set up was covered by a redundancy payout and the subsequent level of investment needed in equipment has been matched by business's growth in the industry, but...
A lot of self employed businesses will struggle to turn a profit for the first year at least. It's nothing to do with failing
For the majority of the last 25 years, I have had the ability to have a company car or company car allowance. Apart from one 3 month period - I have chosen to receive the company car allowance or get the allowance consolidated in pensionable pay.
There have been several approaches used by company car drivers to minimise BiK tax for vehicles:
- Double-cab pick-ups with many users ‘chortling loudly’ about the hugely reduced BiK tax liability. There’s a reason for high-specification pick-ups and it’s not based on need.
- The move to EV’s. The BiK tax liability is increasing as it should.
Working in the utility and construction sectors, drivers of vehicles used for work and provided for work - for example, pick-ups and vans were not allowed to used them for personal use - so they didn’t have to pay tax for BiK.
I have no issue with people not requiring them for work paying the full amount of BiK. If you use a van mainly for work you pay a fixed and much reduced BiK for personal use.